# Omarchy! Omarchy! Omarchy!: every episode Weekly Omarchy X Space hosted by @ncfrontiersman and @NixFred. Every Sunday, 3pm EST, live on X. Site: https://omarchyspaces.com. Generated 2026-11-11. # EP 01: Omarchy! Omarchy! Omarchy! Part of "Omarchy! Omarchy! Omarchy!", the weekly Omarchy X Space. Every Sunday, 3pm EST, live on X. - Recorded: Sunday, September 13, 2026, 3pm EST - Length: 95 minutes - X recording: 1:11:47 - Film (Sunday Builders Club, 4 min): https://omarchyspaces.com/films/ep01.mp4 - Speakers: 7+ - Tuned in: 130 - Hosts: @ncfrontiersman, @NixFred - Listen: https://x.com/i/spaces/1nxeLMVNppbJX - Post on X: https://x.com/NixFred/status/2099250845116469273 - Web: https://omarchyspaces.com/ep/01/ ## Summary (as posted on X by @NixFred) Omarchy! Omarchy! Omarchy! X Spaces Episode 1: Listen here: https://x.com/i/spaces/1nxeLMVNppbJX Recorded Sunday, September 13, 2026, on X Spaces. 95 minutes, 7+ speakers. First of many. See you next Sunday! What came out of it was better than a show-and-tell. Underneath the demos there's a set of hard problems every person on that call is hitting from a different angle, and some are solved some not. The second half of this is about those. The first half is what got said. WHO WAS IN THE ROOM: @ncfrontiersman Wes built OmaStorm, the NEXRAD radar plugin, and is in the mix on Omarchy Mac. Me, co-host: Blip & Infomarchy. @thisisgm who wrote Flea. @gh_TechLuddite, 13 years at an MSP, found the security holes in Blip, building Opinionated Omarchy and Omarchy Fleet. @thetundeo in London, runs ZeroRAMP, hosting the first Omarchy London meetup on September 24. Joel, Rails developer, built http://omarchyguild.com. @MuchmoreIT, a 25yr friend, Slackware 1.0 vintage, AMD only, $1B PB data centers.. @1280MHz, who found us through OmaStorm. @Wappy_x, who wants to know when Apple Silicon M4 lands. A chemical and electrical engineer running Omarchy on an old Windows laptop who called himself "a hardcore vibe coder." Plus a room full of awesome folks who just listened. PART ONE: WHAT WE TALKED ABOUT The infrastructure guy's advantage Wes and GM were on the point that writing code faster doesn't make verification any less important, and if you're not careful, verification is where the money goes. @thisisgm does a lot of adversarial review, throwing diffs into separate code reviewers so one session doesn't "loop around in useless workflows." Everybody in that room has watched an agent chase its own tail. I pushed back on one thing. Wes had said it might take a real programmer just as long to write something themselves as to have AI do it. I agree, for programmers. I'm not one. I do enterprise storage for a living. Yawn, I know. I know what good looks like when I see it, but I couldn't sit down in an IDE and start writing Java. For people like me, AI didn't make coding a little faster. It made it possible. Wes's take: infrastructure and DevOps people have more agency here than programmers, because we're used to making things work at the edge. That part of the job didn't get compressed. The typing did. GM said it for all of us: "Contrary to popular belief, I am an infrastructure guy. This would not have happened if it's not for AI." OmaStorm: a radar app built over a long weekend Labor Day weekend. A new model drop and Fable 5.1 landed right as Omarchy was taking off. Wes stood Omarchy up in a VM, fell for how configurable it was, and asked himself what he uses every day. Weather radar. He's been hooked on weather since Hurricane Andrew. First question was data, because "if you don't have the data, it's just a toy." He assumed a commercial license was coming. It wasn't. In the US, every NEXRAD radar reading gets published to a public S3 bucket. Free, no license. So he pointed Fable at the bucket, asked how to render it fast, and asked for it to look 8-bit and pixelated instead of the smoothed-over radar every phone app shows. The architecture decision is the interesting part. Omarchy plugins aren't compiled. Whatever's on main gets pulled down and run, interpreted, on install. Great for iteration, terrible for a rendering engine. So Wes split it: the plugin is the "dumb terminal," and a headless daemon does the work and talks to it over a socket. First try in Python, too slow, torn down. Second try in Rust, a language he didn't know, picked because the problem was bounded (same data in, PNG tiles out) and memory management mattered. First time it rendered he couldn't believe it worked. He tweeted it. It's around 100 stars now with a steady stream of contributors, several of them on the call. His line on the whole thing: "It reminds you of what's good in the world. Building cool software is something we can all hopefully agree on." One thing he's too polite to say. Last week Larry chased a stall in OmaStorm's live poller at volume rollovers all the way upstream into the NEXRAD parsing library it depends on. It wasn't OmaStorm's bug. That's what "swarm to lift the maintainers" looks like in practice. @gh_TechLuddite : three years fighting AI, five months building with it He's worked since he was 12. He's 42. Thirteen years at an MSP, with a CTO he calls the best leader he's ever had. For the last three years his job, in his words, was to be "a meat proxy for safety and data governance." You can't let a tool like this run wild among people who don't understand the blast radius. Then his CTO gave him a reality check: it's time. He's been learning in earnest since May. His warning comes from somebody who does vendor qualification for a living. He's watching companies switch vendors because the vendor's AI implementation doesn't meet basic security standards. He brought up the McDonald's data leak as a system that didn't need to be engineered the way it was. And he said, flat out, that when these LLMs land inside MSP and enterprise management tools, "the IT AI apocalypse is inbound." His first learning project was building an AI to play an AI in Universal Paperclips. Not a joke. He wanted fast discernment in a system with no API, then action in another gated system, which is a real shape of problem. I asked how he found the holes in Blip. He wanted to use it, forked it, and ran his agents across the fork for safety, "because I'm freaking paranoid." Then he couldn't help sharing what he found. And he added the thing that stuck with me: I was the first person who responded to him at all and welcomed his additions. That's why he's here. That's why any of us are here. @thetundeo found Omarchy by accident, watching a review of a 5K monitor he was shopping for. The reviewer was running Omarchy. He didn't connect it to @DHH, whose products he'd been using for a year and a half, until later. He handed his MacBook Pro to his daughter for uni, bought a Dell XPS 14, and installed Omarchy. His CTO and two developers are on XPS 16s. Only the designer is still on a Mac, and if 37signals ships a creative suite, the designer converts too. DHH asked for meetup volunteers. Tundy put his hand up without thinking. First Omarchy London meetup is September 24 and it has 70 signups. He also had an obscure streaming webcam with no config software on Linux. Built the config tool in two days. Once it's tidy, it goes public. @joelga from the Omarchy Guild, because Discord is a mess @joelga was already building http://railsguild.com, a verified portfolio site for Rails devs. When the Omarchy wave hit, he cloned the idea and built http://omarchyguild.com in a couple of days. Sign in with GitHub, it pulls your repos in. There's a leaderboard. The motivation was blunt and everybody agreed: the Omarchy Discord is huge, vast, and impossible to find anything in. Wes: "Maybe we're getting old." The Guild repo is private right now. Joel will open it if there's enough interest, with the honest caveat that opening a repo creates work. What do we call ourselves? Joel told me anybody who's seen my output would say I'm a programmer, whatever I call myself. I said what I always say: I give Larry an idea and he comes back close to done. It's my ideas, not my coding. Tech Luddite had been wrestling with exactly this. He doesn't feel like a coder. Where he landed, the night before the Space: what he actually had to learn in the last five months wasn't AI, it was software development. So he's a software developer now. Not a coder, not a programmer. Joel offered a second frame: mid-level manager. "Hey agent, go build this," then making sure your little sibling did what you asked. Tech Luddite had tried on orchestrator and coordinator and rejected both, because they leave out that it was your idea and you drove it the whole way. And it's more than vibe coding when you're dedicated to it, fighting confabulation, insisting on accuracy. Wes's answer covers all of it: the definition's changing, and what it comes down to is, can you verify it, and do you have boundaries. Amalgamafi thesis: small local models are the new app store For Omarchy to win for real, we need small local models trained on everything the community is learning by using Omarchy. Most of your token spend right now is the agent rediscovering your machine. That should be local, in a model you download like any app and plug into your main agent. And the bigger idea: this is the new app store, and it's open source. A sub-gigabyte model that already knows plumbing, on a hundred-dollar computer, already wired into the Omarchy environment. His proof of concept: he told an agent to grab Chromium, rip it apart, and run models in Wasm inside the browser. Fed it a video stream and got an hour of transcription back in about twenty minutes, locally. My answer was two numbers and a claim. Right now about 8% of my prompts go to my local machine. I think that's 50% by this time next year, and the gains come from quantization and open source software, not hardware. And the people you'd hope are thinking about a model trained directly on Omarchy: I can confirm they are. That might be one of the big announcements. I said "maybe." I meant it. Wes summed it up: "The cavalry ain't coming. We're in." I commented...."the people who put $15 million into Omarchy didn't put it in to get where we are now. We're 10% into this. In a year we'll say "I can't remember before Omarchy" the way we say "I can't remember before AI." @gh_TechLuddite 's counter: Opinionated Omarchy He hears "train a model" a lot and isn't a fan. His project is Opinionated Omarchy. The idea: AI fixes for Omarchy should be consistent and cheap, for every user, everywhere, without a cloud. Can a model do that? Yes. But training one is expensive to build, expensive to iterate, and hard to peer into when it's wrong. His experience with quantized local models in production roles is that they break things. He's had a local model running shell commands go sideways and had to bring in a frontier model to repair the session. So nothing local runs in a production role for him. What he's betting on instead: skills and a tight troubleshooting corpus. Skills cost more input tokens, which are cheap, and produce fewer and better output tokens, which are expensive. "What's the point of saving input tokens if it gets you output you can't use?" Opinionated Omarchy today is a troubleshooting corpus with a GitHub Pages front end. Next stage: a skill plus a SQLite database so it can be searched to shape the input before the model ever sees it. MIT, run it locally. His own agents called the repo "the most documented empty folder in all of GitHub." He asked, in plain words, for help. He's also got Omarchy Fleet, built on the Omarchy Kids work. "Business by repo": a pizza shop is a repo, combine it with Fleet, and you stand up their machines from it. Apple Silicon, AMD, and big iron @Wappy_x asked when M4 support lands. Wes: M1 and M2 are the current focus, M3 and up come next, and it won't be in the upcoming 4.5 release. Omarchy Mac lives in a fork today, and every bug fixed in one place has to be ported to the other. Getting it back into the main repo is "stop the bleeding first," then things accelerate. Help is welcome. @MuchmoreIT came in from the other end. AMD only, testing Omarchy across Radeon boxes because that's what he builds at scale: EPYC, NVL72 racks. He installs Google TPU systems on-prem at tier0 companies, the BIG ONES. His contribution is going to be stretching Omarchy onto bigger and bigger systems, the way CIQ did with Rocky Linux. Omarchy linux? @dhh y'all need to connect. Known Heath for over 20yrs and I'll say what he won't, he's the real deal. Heath also wants to collaborate with Wes on NOAA and he wrote a hurricane model against the same NEXRAD data OmaStorm reads. Building in the open, and building together Wes made the case for building in the open. It takes vulnerability. But people learn, you learn, and the community gets lifted. His ask: if anybody's drowning in PRs, let's swarm and help. @gh_TechLuddite 's reply was the most quoted thing on the call. He started building in the open five months ago and it got lonely, more lonely than building privately. What changed it was finding a community to build with. "Build in the open, but find ways to build together." He also gave the maintainer's side: when you send someone a PR, you're asking them to support your code. He's got things he wants to throw at Infomarchy that he won't, because he doesn't want me carrying that burden. That kind of restraint is rare. I said the obvious thing people avoid: you don't have to accept every PR. It's your baby. Be firm and nice. "I appreciate what you did, but I'm going a different direction." Somebody sent Blip a full Apple Contacts integration, and the right answer for Contacts is http://icloud.com/contact installed as a web app. I felt terrible saying no. I still had to. @ncfrontiersman went further. Code generation is the easy part now; the approach is the hard part. Open an issue first, agree on the approach, then write the PR. Otherwise somebody burns their tokens building German radar for OmaStorm and the data license doesn't allow it. He's thinking about gating PRs behind approved issues. @joelga proposed the thing I think happens next: a shared contributor instruction set any of us can drop into a project. When a contributor's agent reads the repo, it's primed to help the way that maintainer wants. Tech Luddite added: PRs have a draft status. Use it for discussion. And like I said on air, it's a pull request. Request is implied. Blip, Claude on Mac, and what I've learned about memory Before Omarchy, I had Larry on an M4 Mac and asked it to go look at what it could see inside the Apple ecosystem. Turns out the iMessage database isn't encrypted. It's wide open. That became a repo called Claude on Mac. It gives Claude Code or Codex the ability to read and write Apple Mail, Notes, Photos, Messages, all of it. First thing I did was have Larry read every message my brother and I ever sent each other and summarize the relationship. It came back with "you send 58% of the text, he responds, you respond faster." It can send on your behalf. I locked that down to ask every single time, and it's never burned me. When I moved to Omarchy, the first idea was to proxy to the Mac over SSH. Then: why not a plugin? Version 0.0 was "show me my iMessages, quick and dirty." Then make it look like Messages. Then I got greedy: photos, contacts, send and receive. The setup is a Mac on your desk with SSH open (Amphetamine keeps it awake), Tailscale so you can be anywhere (if you don't use Tailscale, shame on you, go get it), and the plugin pulling from the Mac directly. Twelve contributors now. Folks like @gh_TechLuddite got in there and showed me I had security problems. They were right. How I run it today: Larry Prime on my Omarchy box keeps up with the PRs, merges the easy ones, and for anything that needs a decision it prompts me with a pick-list and a recommendation. If you use Claude Code, bang its head into the ground until it always uses AskUserQuestion with recommendations. Nobody wants "here are the twelve things I need you to answer." I started building Larry about 3 days after Claude Code came out, out of frustration at re-explaining everything every session. Each piece I built showed up in Claude Code native about a month later. Not because anybody saw my code. I'm nobody. But it told me I was on the right track. And here's what I've learned from pointing Larry at every new memory system that drops and telling it to cherry-pick whatever makes it better: every memory system saves everything. Memory isn't the problem. Recall of the right thing at the right moment is the problem, and nobody's solved it. PART TWO: THE QUESTIONS STILL UNANSWERED Every one of these came up on the call. None got resolved. Some of them nobody even owns yet. Q1. Who owns the contribution protocol? Every maintainer is getting five PRs that do the same thing five different ways, PRs for features they don't want, PRs written by agents whose owners never read them. Wes wants issue-first gating. Joel wants a shared CONTRIBUTING framework that primes the contributor's agent. Tech Luddite wants a skill for making PRs on other people's repos. I want the "no" to be easier to say. These are all the same document, and nobody's written it. What's the minimum a repo needs so an agent reading it behaves? Who maintains the shared version? Can the gate be automated without killing the drive-by fix that actually helps? Q2. Local models: train, or retrieve? Amogama wants small models trained on Omarchy, distributed like apps. Tech Luddite has watched local models break machines and is betting on a curated corpus plus skills plus a SQLite index. I said 8% of my prompts are local today and 50% in a year. Nobody knows which approach produces consistent, cheap, correct fixes on a stranger's machine, because nobody's measured it. Who curates the corpus? Where's the line between what a local model may do (read, diagnose, propose) and what needs a frontier model or a human (run the shell command)? If DHH's team ships an official Omarchy model, do community efforts complement it, compete, or fold in? How do you test a local fix without a fleet of VMs? Q3. Recall, not memory. Every agent memory system saves everything. None reliably surface the right thing at the right moment. Every person on that call re-explained something to their agent this week that it already knew. Is this a per-person tooling problem or a community one? Could the Opinionated Omarchy corpus be the shared recall layer for Omarchy problems, with personal memory on top? "Did the agent already know this" is measurable. Nobody's measuring it. Q4. Install and distribution. Plugins run whatever's on main, interpreted. That's why they're easy to build. OmaStorm needed a Rust daemon for performance. How does a compiled backend get built, shipped, and updated through a system that only pulls QML from main? Blip's best install path is "point your AI at the repo." That's not an installer. Forking is the community's default move and system updates break forks. There's no versioning, pinning, or rollback story most users understand. Q5. Security and blast radius. Who reviews plugins before people install them? Right now the answer is "Tech Luddite forks it and runs his agents across it." That doesn't scale. What's the norm for agents with send or write capability? Ask every time is best effort. Allowlists are better. Nothing is standard. When agents with shell access run local models that break things, who's accountable? And Tech Luddite's MSP view: vendors are already failing security qualification on AI integrations. When LLMs land in enterprise management tools, the blast radius is every managed endpoint. Should Omarchy, as a community, be saying something about that now? Q6. Discovery and duplication. Discord is unusable for finding things. The Guild is one answer. Plugin catalogs are another. Neither stops five people building the same plugin and never finding each other. Fork or abandon? Forking grows the ecosystem and fragments it. Who says "this already exists, go contribute there" before somebody burns a weekend? Q7. Desktop or platform? Wappy wants it on an M4. Heath wants it on TPU racks. Tech Luddite wants to roll it out to a pizza shop from a repo. Nobody publishes a supported hardware matrix. Is there an Omarchy server, or is that rumor? Business fleets are a different support burden from enthusiast laptops, and Omarchy Kids and Omarchy Fleet are each one person. Q8. What do we call ourselves? Developer, coder, programmer, orchestrator, mid-level manager, vibe coder. It sounds like vocabulary. It isn't. It decides who feels allowed to say "I built this" and who gets taken seriously when they file a bug. Tech Luddite's answer, "software developer, because that's what I actually had to learn," is the best one I've heard. Nobody's adopted it. Q9. Data rights and regional reach. OmaStorm works because US NEXRAD data is free. Somebody will send a PR for German radar and Wes may not be legally allowed to merge it. Blip works because the Mac's iMessage database is readable. Apple could close that tomorrow. Which of our plugins depend on access that could disappear or doesn't exist outside the US? Q10. Maintainer loneliness and burnout. Building in the open got lonely for Tech Luddite. Wes can't keep up. Joel isn't sure he wants the work of going public. I've got twelve contributors on Blip and an agent doing triage because I can't. "Swarm to help" got proposed. Nobody defined how you ask for the swarm or who answers. Who backs up a maintainer who goes quiet for a month? Q11. The platform we're meeting on. X dropped a room of 56 people. The chat couldn't be opened. Speakers couldn't unmute. This is our community infrastructure right now. Is X Spaces the venue, or the discovery layer for a venue? Where do the recordings and summaries live so they're searchable? Q12. Not your grandfather's Linux. Zoom all the way out on what DHH is doing and the goal is that Omarchy stops being for developers. Every single person on that call was a developer of some kind. What's the first non-developer use case that actually ships, and who's building it? Meetups are the first thing pulling in people who don't live on GitHub. What do we do with them when they show up? ASKS ON THE TABLE Tech Luddite wants help on Opinionated Omarchy: skills, SQLite-backed corpus search, anything past skills. MIT, run it locally, "I would love anyone to even just talk." JoelGA will open the Omarchy Guild repo if enough people say they want to contribute. Say it. I want a real next-next-next installer for Blip. Point your agent at the repo, then come find me. Wes and the Omarchy Mac effort want help getting the Mac fork back into the main repo, then M3 and up. Tundy has 70 people coming to London on September 24. Heath and Wes are talking NEXRAD and hurricane models offline. If you've got weather data chops, that thread wants you. Everybody: follow everybody who was in the room. We're small. We've got the same likes. NEXT EPISODE: Weekly, probably. Same format: raise your hand, tell us what you're building, tell us where you're stuck. Don't be scared. If you don't know what you're doing, ask somebody, or ask your AI agent. Ping me! I want to help. No politics, no ego. This is about Omarchy and nothing else. If you were in the room, you've got the same likes as the rest of us. Follow everybody. "The cavalry ain't coming. We're it" - @ncfrontiersman SEE YOU NEXT SUNDAY! ## Transcript Machine generated. Speaker labels come from the transcription tool and are reused for different people; the summary says who is who. Speaker 1: I'm thinking about, like, yeah, we can write code faster, but that verification process is still so important because you're not... you're never really going to know if it's going to work like you think until you're actually exercising the binaries, the executables, you know? Speaker 2: Yeah, and if you're not careful, it can get extremely expensive. Speaker 1: Oh, totally. Speaker 2: Like, I run testing on subscriptions, and I ideally like as much manual work as you can do you try to do, but at the end of the day you're tackling a bunch of different issues at the same time, and it's like, the machine is going to do a better job regardless. You, as the human, have to, like, actually make sure it's doing the right things and verify as much as you can. Speaker 1: Yep, totally. Totally. Well, let's pause for a sec. Nix, did you get connected? Fred Nix: Hey, man. I think I'm on. Speaker 1: All right. Awesome. So, uh, GM was just telling us... I mean, I don't know what you heard, but kind of what it's been like with Flea and how it kind of just exploded overnight and... Fred Nix: Well deserved. Speaker 1: He's trying... yeah. Fred Nix: Hey, I want to comment on, uh, you know, earlier you said you think it might take just as long to code it yourself, and I agree with that. Um, however, I'm an infrastructure guy by trade. I do enterprise class, uh, storage systems. Uh, yawn. I can feel everybody yawning from here. Um, but what... AI might take you guys that are programmers just as long, but for me, I could code, but it might take me 10 times longer than somebody that knows what the hell they're doing. So for me, it opens up an ability to do something that was out of reach for me. I know what good looks like when I see it, but I don't... I couldn't just, like, start out and write Java code, you know, inside an IDE. Um, so, you know, for some of us that are technical... I'd call myself technical, but certainly not programmers... you know, it reaches down and allows us to create things, you know, as long as we can explain it well and we know what good looks like. Speaker 1: Yeah. 100%. Yeah, it's, uh, it... yeah, I mean, and I think, if anything, infrastructure folks, DevOps folks, you guys have a lot more agency in some ways than programmers because you're used to making the shit work, like wiring it up, you know? Fred Nix: Exactly. Speaker 1: At the edge, dealing with all the issues, and, uh, you know, for us that are, you know, we're programmers or whatever you want to say, like, that kind of has been compressed now. Fred Nix: Yeah. Speaker 1: And it's like, now, you know, we're solving that stuff too, but now it's like we also, you know, we're having to make sure it works, so. Fred Nix: I also might say that it helps infrastructure people. It's given us a bigger boost than programmers. Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, I mean, some, for sure, yeah. And there's all kinds of programmers, you know? There's some people that just write the code, there's some people that, uh, are, you know, all about crafting the perfect, you know, clean functions and all that, and no shame to that, no shade to that, but. Fred Nix: Yeah, and, you know, the... not all the PRs I've received, you know, we wouldn't be... I wouldn't be where I am or Blip or any of the rest of them. Um, if anybody that's listening wants to speak, please raise your hand and let's, um, let's get folks involved. I'm the co-host, I don't want to... excuse me... step on you ass, but. Speaker 1: No, no, sounds good. Yeah, uh, real quick, though, GM, anything else you wanted to share? Um, I appreciate you coming in. I thought you said you had work today or something, so I appreciate you jumping in. Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, contrary to popular belief, I am an infrastructure guy. Speaker 1: Awesome. Speaker 2: So I'm not as skilled when it comes to the UI and front-end stuff, so AI helps a lot, for sure. Like, this would not have happened if it's not for AI. And, yeah, uh, I have a bunch of processes that I do a lot of adversarial reviews with AI. Like, I just throw the diff into code reviewers, and that does wonders for my workflow because sessions can get caught up in context if you're not careful, and it's going to loop around in useless workflows. Speaker 1: Yeah. Speaker 2: And, yeah, I mean, like, to summarize, yeah, Flea is a work in progress. I am grateful, uh, beyond words, for all the support it's been getting from all of you guys around the world, and, yeah, I'm going to keep working on it and hopefully things happen. Speaker 1: Wonderful. Fred Nix: Just for, uh, housekeeping, I would like to let everybody know this is being recorded. There will be summaries put back out later. Um, if you don't want to be recorded, don't speak. If you'd like to speak, raise your hand. Speaker 1: All right. Well, um, awesome. So let's see. Anybody else, um, have something cool they're building you want to talk about? Let's see. Um, trying to see who all's in here. We've got some folks. Um, I mean, I can... I can take a moment if no one's got anything right off the top of their head. I can talk a little bit about Oma Storm and how that... Fred Nix: I'd love to hear about that. Oh, I'd love to. Speaker 1: Yeah. Fred Nix: How did it... you know, let me ask you a few questions. So how did the idea come to you? When was it that you went, "You know what, I'm going to build it"? Did you kind of, like, start making something just for yourself and then go, "You know what, I think other people would want this"? And I've seen your work, Wes, and, you know, basically in my mind, if you're interested in it, I think a lot of folks are going to be interested in it. So, you know, tell us the origin story and all the places you went with it and... Speaker 1: Yeah. Uh, it was interesting. So Labor Day weekend, you get a long weekend, right? New model comes out, Astra comes out, um, you know, we had Fable 5.1 out, and I... and at the same time, Omachi is just really taking off, and I'm like, "All right, I don't want to... " so I got it installed on a VM, uh, to begin with, and started playing with it, and I'm like, "I love this. I love I can configure things. I love how easy it is to, uh, spin up stuff," and I'm like, "I think I'm going to build a plugin. I wonder, you know," and so I started thinking, um, what would I like to see? What do I use the most? And it's... I've loved Wether. I've loved Wether since Hurricane Andrew years ago. Uh, been following it, um, and, you know, something that I do pretty much every day is open up the radar app on my phone, and I'm like, "All right, where are the storms coming from? Where are we tracking?" I'm like, "Man, I bet I could make a sick radar app on Omachi that... " and I'm going to say Omachi, so y'all just have to be okay with that, but, uh, a sick radar app, and, uh, it's like, I want it to, you know, I gave... I started out with Fable, and I'm like, "All right, I want it to look like it was built in, you know, just like the other plugins: network, um, the agents plugin, like, just native to how it is," um, and I said, "You know, let's talk about where we can get this data from. We can start from the US," because, you know, it always starts with, "You could build cool, you know, apps and plugins, but if you don't have the good data, you know, the access to it, then it's just a toy," and so my first thought was like, "Well, dang, I bet I have to pay for some, you know, commercial license and all that," so I did some research, and it turns out, at least for the US, they put up all of the records, the readings from these radars that are, you know, they put up all of the records, the readings from these radars that are, you know, uh, reading this information up on an Amazon, like, S3 bucket that's publicly available for free to download and anybody can use, and so I was like, "All right, Fable, go take a look at that data. Think about how we could, in the most performant way, have a plugin that shows the radar, uh, for a given location," um, and I want it to render it, and it should look like 8-bit, pixelized, you know, not the traditional, like, smooth over radar that you see in some apps because it's just like, "Hey, that'd be cool," right? And so I started doing some mockups with it, um, not, like, just HTML mockups, and I got to design a light, and then I said, "All right, let's think about this. Let's split it up," and, um, because of the way the Omachi plugins work, it's kind of like whatever you push to main, um, when somebody, like, up on GitHub, when somebody goes to install it, it pulls main down and runs it, and it's not a compiled thing. It's not like you're compiling, uh, the Qt code. Like, it just runs, like, interpreted, and so I'm like, "That might be a little slow for, like, a rendering engine," so, you know, what can we do to have the plugin be the view, the dumb terminal, you know, like we used to say, and then the backend kind of run like it's this headless daimon, or demon, or however you say it, that, um, could then talk to it over a socket connection? And so I started riffing with, uh, with Fable, and it's like, "All right, I can do something," and it started with Python, and I'm like, "No, that's not going to cut it. That's going to be too slow," so I had to tear that down, and I said, "All right, I don't really know Rust. I know, you know, I've got experience with others, like Golang and all the front-end, you know, JavaScript, TypeScript, I know Ruby, but as far as, like, you know, really fast, you know, I've heard the memory management in Rust is great, and, uh, you know, slow to compile, the syntax is a little hard to follow," so I'm like, "All right, this sounds like a good use case. Uh, for something that's bounded, you know, it's going to always take this type of data in, and I want it to generate, you know, an output of PNG images that then the plugin can just lay on top of a map, a control," and so it got to the point where it started rendering, and that first time I saw it, I'm like, "Oh my God, I can't believe this works. Like, this is so cool," and so I think I shared, like, a tweet of, like, you know, "This is something I'm building. What do you guys think?" and, you know, everybody was like, "Wow, this looks incredible," and I was actually kind of surprised how, like, much people liked it. You know, I didn't know a lot of people like Wether or not. Maybe that's a little bit of a niche thing, but, um, yeah, so I started getting out, and then it was like, "How can I, you know, release this to people so they can test it? What's involved with that?" and, uh, pushed it up, and, uh, people started downloading it, and, you know, I think Omach has 100 GitHub stars now. Fred Nix: Wow. Speaker 1: I've had so many people contribute, um, people on this call, I'm sure, and, uh, it's just been fun. I did open source years ago, took a break for a while, and it's just been so good to be back. Fred Nix: Awesome. Speaker 1: Doing it again, um, because it's like this... it's like when we build as a community, um, it reminds you of what's good in the world, you know? We all get caught up in politics and everything else going on, but, you know, building cool software, you know, that's something that we can all hopefully agree on, so, um, yeah. Fred Nix: That's awesome, man. Where do you see it going? Like, what's on your roadmap? Speaker 1: All right. I don't know if we lost Nix or not. Fred Nix: It muted me when you started talking. So what on your roadmap can you share? Speaker 1: Cool. Well, that's enough of me talking for a while. Let's see. Anybody else, uh, have something they want to chat about? Any questions or? Fred Nix: Can you not hear me? Speaker 4: Yeah, check, check. Can you hear me all right? Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, man. Speaker 4: Yeah, awesome. I, uh, I found you through Oma Storm, and I installed that right away when I saw it. The vibe is real. And Wether, I don't think it is a niche thing. I think that's a universal thing, right? Speaker 1: Yeah. Speaker 4: It doesn't matter where you are in the world. It touches you, and it's something that belongs in the operating system, and we've seen how that's happened with other operating systems. I mean, Windows tried that stuff, but Oma Storm's awesome, and I think that that captures a lot of. Speaker 1: I think... did it cut out? Fred Nix: Can you unmute me, maybe? Speaker 1: Let's see. Speaker 4: Maybe he was hit by a storm. Speaker 1: Yeah, maybe so. All good. All good. Um, we'll catch up with him in a minute when he comes back. Uh, let's see. Anybody else building anything cool? Doesn't have to be a big deal. It could be small. It could be a theme, you know, figure out how to set up something. Speaker 4: Just, um, yeah, prevent us from doing that stuff. There's great hardware that is locked up, and to be able to break those walls and access that hardware with open-source software is the coolest thing to me, so I'd love to hear Nix talk about that a little bit and hear about some other things people are working on in that vein because that's what really gets me going. Fred Nix: Hey, I'm back. I just restarted. Something muted me, and the button wouldn't unmute. Sorry about that. I believe your question is a bridge away from, like, Microsoft and Apple? Is that what you want to know about? Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean, that's just what gets me fired up, is breaking the walled gardens and allowing open-source software like, like, Omachi. Fred Nix: Yeah. Speaker 4: And Linux and whatever to run on Apple hardware and whatever hardware. Phones even. It's coming. Fred Nix: Yeah. If you look at what DHH is really trying to do, and you upclick the highest level, um, Omachi, it really... we've got to get to the point where it's not for developers anymore, you know, it's not your grandfather's Linux, if you're old enough to know what that means. Um, so when I started Omachi, uh, you know, I struggled with the keyboard as well, but I knew that there was something different about it, and so I think I alluded to Wes as like, "How did you get started building it? Was it just for you?" and Blip, turned out, for me, was one of the earlier things that I started tinkering with, and, you know, again, I think I've said it enough. I'm not a programmer, so, you know, I just started talking to Fable and saying, "Hey, here's what I'd like to do," and my first instance, you know, I was shooting low, and I just said, "Is there any way that you could just make, you know, if I get a message, you know, from, um, from my message, is there any way we can bring that on?" and, um, and I'll mention things here, and please don't think I have an ego about it. Um, I don't like talking about myself, uh, but the story includes it. So I've been using and building what I call Larry on, uh, Claude Code since about three days after it started, and I didn't understand exactly what it was, and I had frustrations, and I started, you know, couldn't remember crap, and so I started down, you know, what thousands of people did was, you know, "How can I make this thing, you know, how do I get to the point where when I start a session, I don't have to tell it everything fucking again?" Um, and over time, the interesting thing was that each of the pieces that I built for Larry, um, Anthropic started, and it wasn't... certainly wasn't because they saw my code. I'm a nobody. Anthropic started building these pieces into it, and so each time I'd make something custom for Larry, about a month later, it would show up in Claude Code, um, which, again, they didn't see my stuff, but what it did do is tell me that I was on the right track, um, and there's lots of folks that have better memory systems out there, but Larry, for me, is so customized now, um, when I do see a good memory system, and I have no shame in this, uh, even just last night, I saw a new, good memory system, and I wish I could repeat the name of it, but I don't remember. Um, I believe I retweeted it, and what I do is I point Larry at the repo and, um, unabashedly just say, "Hey, go check this repo out and see if there's anything we can cherry-pick to make your memory better," and what I've found, and it's really started to hit home in the past three months, is that everybody's memory system that they do, and I'm assuming everybody knows what I mean about memory, is just, you know, not having to explain it over and over and, you know, telling it to take the fucking em dashes out, you know, they drive me crazy, um, and over time, Larry, you know, started understanding what I wanted and what I was trying to do, so new memory systems come out, I point those people's repo and say, you know, um, without any sense of shame, "Go pull out the pieces that'll make yourself better," and what I've learned in the last three or four months is that pretty much anybody's and everybody's memory systems that they're using for codecs, for, um, uh, for Claude Code, and the one that I really built mine off of was a guy by the name of Daniel Miesler, and I'm probably killing his last name, but you should look him up. He has a thing called LifeOS, I believe it's ourlifeOS.com, and I've long since left his code behind, but he was kind of the guy that got me started. Um, I'll leave comments for him on the table. Um, good dude. Um, anyway, what I learned in the last three months is that everybody's memory system pretty much has 100% memory save rate. All the memory systems save everything. Memory is not the problem. Recall of the right data at the right time and the right situation is the hard part. So fast forward, and let me know if I'm getting too long. I'm happy to shut up. So I got onto Omachi. I'll back up a little bit. So when I was coding for Larry, it was on a Mac, just a little M4 Mac, and I started tinkering around and asked Larry to go look into the, uh, Apple ecosystem and what it could, you know, where it could see into, and come to find out that iMessage database is not encrypted. It's pretty wide open, um, and so over time, I've got a repo out there called Claude on Mac, um, and you can go grab that, and what that did... this was before Omachi... and what it literally does, and you can install it, it's fairly well tested and used by a couple of folks, maybe a dozen. What it does is it unlocks your Claude or your codecs to reach into your Apple Mail, your Apple Notes, your Apple Photos, your Apple everything. Um, so it has the ability to make modifications and do those things, and so as I tightened that up, iMessage became one of them. Now, I didn't... I stayed inside the Claude Code CLI interface, so for me, Larry was just able to, um, go read my iMessages and, um, you know, what I did early was just say, "Hey, go read my 1,500 messages," because I never deleted an iMessage, "Go read all my messages back from my brother on iMessage and, you know, summarize our relationship," and, like, it would go down and do details like you send 58% of the text, he responds, you respond quicker, you know, give me all kinds of data. Um, it can send on your behalf, um, but I locked it the hell down. Hey, Sir Jill, thank you for joining. Uh, X just dropped us. We're hoping to get everybody back in. Give me a thumbs up if you can hear me, sir. It'd be helpful. Oh, man, we had 56 folks on and it died. Hey, thank you, Sir Jill. Appreciate that. Hey, we're going to get started here in just a few minutes. I'm waiting on Wes to rejoin. Uh, X just dropped the session, sess the, uh, X system, so sorry about that. Hopefully, we can rebuild some momentum. Hey, Wes, go ahead and request being a host. Hey, can you hear me, guys? Speaker 2: Yeah. I, I, uh, actually shared another one. I think people are maybe over in that one. Fred Nix: All righty. Well, where's the... where's the net? Speaker 2: Where should we go? Fred Nix: We'll join. Speaker 2: Uh, let's stay here. This is fine. Fred Nix: You want to tell them to rejoin? Nick's read? Speaker 2: Yeah. Fred Nix: I, uh, actually shared another one. I think people are maybe. Speaker 2: Oh, weird. That was me. Speaker 4: Like my dad. Fred Nix: Just end it, Wes, and or tell people to come over here and end it. Speaker 2: Okay. One second. Fred Nix: Yep. Hey, 1280. Um, I know we had plans to do some other stuff, and I know I got to this before I got to you, and I want to publicly let you know that, uh, I meant no disrespect. Uh, we will get to it. Speaker 4: Thanks, brother. Don't feel bad. Uh, part of it's my schedule. I got a lot going on. I got two kids and running a small company, you know, it's. Fred Nix: Yeah, man. I understand. Speaker 4: It's all right. We'll link up. You know, there's always so much going on. Fred Nix: Right. Speaker 4: That I think it's kind of fine. It doesn't even matter when we talk, because whenever we talk, there's going to be some groundbreaking stuff going on. It's going to be a crazy week, I'm sure. Fred Nix: Absolutely. Well, you know, I study human behavior, and the most powerful negative human emotion is being left out, and I don't want you to feel like that, and I did not want you to think I was skipping over you or for some reason. Anyway, hey, um, Tech Luddite, I'm so glad you're here. Uh, would you request to speak? I'd love to chat with you and hear more about you, sir. Here, I'll just throw you... if you want to. Um, if you don't want to speak, just deny the invite. It's all good. Um, where were we? Um, should we keep going or? Speaker 2: Yeah. I was trying to cancel the other one. There's no way to do it. Like, I don't. Fred Nix: Just end it at the top, right? Speaker 2: Uh, well, I have to go out of this to do that, so I'm trying to do it on my laptop. Fred Nix: Um, you know what I would do? What would help me is just close your browser and just rejoin us. It'll actually put you back as speaker automatically. Speaker 2: Okay. All right. One minute. Fred Nix: Be back. Hey, 180. I appreciate... or 1280. I appreciate you, uh, talking to my other buddies, um, that I introduced you guys to. Uh, that's really cool. Tundy. My man, Tundy joined. Oh, he disappeared. Hey, everybody, I really would encourage everybody to follow around each other. Um, we're a pretty small community. Um, you know, we don't do politics. We don't do ego. So, you know, just hover over everybody and follow everybody, and if you join this session, um, I'm following you for sure, and if I miss anybody, please poke me and let me know. Um, I don't give a shit about ratios and all that. There's Tech Luddite. Hey, man. I really appreciate all the work that you've done on the PRs and helping me out. I'd love to hear your story and, uh, how did you find all my bugs that I... they're like, how did you do it, man? You're amazing. Oh, we can't hear you, Tech. Speaker 2: Yeah, I was just reaching for that, uh, mute button, hoping my Omachi hotkeys would hold up. Uh, here I am. Am I coming through okay now? Fred Nix: You're good, man. You sound great. Speaker 2: Excellent. I think this might be the first time I've spoken to anyone through this laptop. Uh, my, uh, my wife got it for me, uh, for a birthday present just before that, uh, vacation, which led me to find your software. To answer your question, I was, uh, just going wild with this laptop on vacation. Fred Nix: Nice. Speaker 2: Like, uh, like a typical bad tech dad. Fred Nix: Yeah. Speaker 2: Uh, but I did minimize it, and, uh, and your software really helped me through that, because trying to put a little bit of time in a lot of things. Fred Nix: Our software. Speaker 2: Yeah. Uh, I'm at a loss for words, honestly, and to respond to that here with others is, uh, is a lot, because you're the first person that I think responded to me at all, and you welcomed my additions, and it's hard for me to even articulate how much it means to me, so thank you. Fred Nix: You bet, man. Speaker 2: And, uh, yeah, so, uh, you asked my story. I have a tendency to burn time, and I know we don't have a lot of it, so I'm going to condense it to, like, four sentences, if I can even do that, but, you know, if I had more time, I'd write a shorter letter. Speaker 4: Wait. Let me stop you. We got all the time in the world. You know what I mean? Like. Speaker 2: Not this kind of time, uh, but, uh, yeah. Speaker 4: You're saying. Speaker 2: We all have long stories too, so I would more than as much as I love to rant, uh, and let me tell you, my coworkers, um, suffer it, um, I would love to hear a little bit about a lot of you, and so I'll try to make mine short, and if anyone gets on a roll, I'd love to hear it all too, but please, uh, I take no offense to me being stopped, and especially no offense to being corrected. Like. Fred Nix: I'd rather be corrected than wrong. Speaker 2: You know, I'm giving people classes left and right and then having multiple AI, uh, systems audit my own speech and bring it back to me so we can reiterate on it. Fred Nix: Right. Speaker 2: Because there's a lot of people need to learn so much, and it needs to be taught in a, in the right way. Fred Nix: Hey, if anybody out there knows how to open up the chat space, can somebody type something into the chat space to get the chats running so we can drop links in here? I can't find it. And also, we have a very special guest from the UK, somebody I really want to talk to. Uh, I may murder his name, and I'm not even going to try the last name. Tundy, you know it's you. Would you request to talk? And, uh, if you don't mind, if you don't want to talk, I get it, um, but I'd love to speak with you, man. Anybody else that wants to speak? Hold on. I'll get it. I'll invite you. There you go, Tundy. Um, let me finish up my rant, and I'll keep it a lot shorter on how Blipp got there and get my crap out of the way before a bunch of people join so we can talk about more important stuff. The bottom line is, um, I don't know if you heard the last, but Claude, I built Larry. Larry, uh, before Omachi came out, I, uh, I really wanted to integrate the Apple, um, infrastructure with notes and photos. I didn't have a UI. I just gave Larry the ability to go look at all my Apple information. He could write Apple notes. He could send iMessages, but I locked him down where he has to request every single time to do it. Now, I know that's just best effort. He never burned me and sent iMessages. I don't really have, uh, my business stuff is elsewhere, so I don't... there's no real danger of sending the wrong person. So I had this, uh, Claude on Mac software that's a repo. You can go find it out there if you want. And it gives your either Codex or your Claude code the ability to really, um, opens up the Apple infrastructure. And so when I got over to Omachi, and I kind of got a week into it, it occurred to me to go ahead and, uh, give the Larry... and I use Larry everywhere. It's either my MSI laptop that I got a couple days ago is my Larry Prime. Uh, there's probably 15 Larrys out there, which does cause problems, but, um, at any rate, I thought, why don't I install, um, Claude on Mac on my Omachi box and then just, um, have it proxy over SSH with an SSH key over to my Mac and get the stuff that I need? And then I started thinking, well, shit, why don't I just make a plug-in? So, you know, version 0.0 was, all I want you to do is just show me quick and dirty, uh, any iMessages. And then I thought, you know, make it look more like an iMessage machine. And then I kind of got greedy. Like, I want the photos, and then I said, um, I want to be able to, uh, send and receive, um, contacts. And I started exploring it, and the way it works is you have to have a Macintosh, uh, with SSH. I recommend, I mean, a software that's free called Amphetamine that keeps it open without shutting down. Uh, and that's important. Um, there are projects and there are plug-ins that will do it directly to your phone through Bluetooth. There's trade-offs there, and I'm not going to go into those. The main reason that I like having, uh, not using Bluetooth on my phone is because of Tailscale, and if you don't use Tailscale, shame on you, go get it. Um, tailscale.com. And so my Mac sits on my desk at my house. I can be anywhere because of SSH keeps the SSH open to not to Larry, just directly to the Mac, and it delivers, um, my messages. And then I think it's... I think we're up to 12 contributors now, and folks like, uh, Tech Luddite and some others really got in there and showed me, like, Fred, bro, like, you got security problems, and this is completely fucked up, and, you know, and what it's become, you know, basically now I just have Larry, uh, Prime on my Omachi box, um, you know, keep up with the PRs. Um, and I tell him, you know, if it's an easy PR and it makes sense, just go ahead and do it and commit push. If it's something I need to think about, um, you know, prompt me with ask user questions. If you're a Claude code user, bang its head in the ground to always use ask user questions with recommendations. That's the menu that allows you to pick. Uh, one of my pet peeves is when it goes, "I need some questions from you. Here's the 12 things I need you to answer." I'm like, "I'm not typing all that." So at the end of the day, and I'm going to bring it home and let somebody else speak, and thanks for the platform. Um, I couldn't do it without all the contributors. Um, it's really solid. Uh, it's pretty easy to move around. If anybody's interested in a tighter installation, uh, method where you literally do next, next, next and install, I'd really appreciate it, and I'd work on it with somebody. Right now, the best way to install it is to point your AI at my repo and say, uh, you know, "Help me get this installed," because there's a lot of things that are missing on the install side. And now I'll shut up. Tundy, my man. I want to know all about you, man. We started talking a couple times, and you have a really interesting story, man. The floor is yours. Unmute. Tundy. All right. Well, Tundy, uh, works on getting unmuted. If anybody could help one of the speakers that's muted, could you direct him to where the unmute is? Um, what? Speaker 2: Yeah. Lower left on mine, and I'm in Firefox. Uh, lower left-hand corner. If you've gone back to X trying to get into the chat, uh, the bottom, like, footer should relink you back into the live session. Fred Nix: Yeah. And one of the anybody that's a speaker, uh, jump in here. I've been talking too long, and this is not the Fred show. Speaker 2: Well, I, uh, I didn't actually deliver those three sentences before that I was thinking of. I can try to cram that in while I do the, uh, the mute, uh, situation to resolve. So, uh, as some of you may have seen, if you've been watching my post, I'm trying to make it apparent that, uh, that I spent the last three years fighting, uh, AI at work, not embracing. Fred Nix: Yeah, you mentioned that. Speaker 2: Yeah. Fred Nix: You're an MSP guy. I hope that's not too much to share. Speaker 2: Uh, I do work for an MSP, and. Fred Nix: Sorry if I outed you. Speaker 2: No, that's all right. Um, none of my personal work, uh, has, like, a full-on direct relationship to them, although I do give them credit and shout out in some of my projects. I've worked for them for 13 years, and my CTO is the best leader I've ever had, and I've had a few. Um, I've worked since I was, like, 12, and I'm 42, so, yeah, I've seen all types, and, uh, so we're presently, uh, a private company and not doing open source, but, uh, without saying too much, it's on the table, at least, and we're discussing it, and we're doing a, you know, AI is changing everything, so. Fred Nix: It's a big step. Speaker 2: Hopefully, there'll be a story later to share there. Go sorry, go ahead. Fred Nix: What are your concerns? Speaker 2: Like, there's got to be a lot of people out there in your shoes that are thinking, "I'm not sure about this." Like, what's your thought process, and what will be the decision maker for you? Yeah. Yeah, I guess. Well, let me actually take a stab at those three sentences, and if it doesn't become apparent, I'll wrap up with it. And it's basically that, uh, you know, when there was this big explosion of capability that, uh, came along with, uh, ChatGPT's user explosion, uh, what, three years ago, three and a half years ago. Um, and at that time, uh, I wasn't going into it right away. I'm intrigued by machine learning and anything computer science, although I'm, you know, not, like, a capable, uh, researcher or anything like that. I'm no computer science master, right? But, uh, I find it intriguing. Like, it's computer poetry is bad, and I love it, right? It's just I'm into it. And, uh, when I saw this all coming about and I did some early testing, I mean, let me tell you, I have corrected so much of this output is unbelievable. Uh, and not until about five months ago did I really start focusing on, um, fixing output a little bit upstream. Fred Nix: Right. Speaker 2: Right? And I think the term, uh, and it feels weird in this position now, living effectively living this way for three years, but I was a meat proxy for safety and data governance purposes and, you know, all things MSP. You cannot let a tool like this run wild with people that don't have a deep understanding of it or the blast radius that it's about to touch. And so, you know, I helped us take benefit, uh, in a safe but really ineffective way. And my leader, this is why I mentioned him earlier, um, gave me a reality check that it's time. Like, I can't even I'm doing having to redo vendor qualifications and dig into how companies, uh, are implementing AI and, like, switching vendors because they're not adhering to good security standards with how they're doing it. You know, like how McDonald's lost everybody's info. They did not need to engineer their system in the way that led to that and others. And there will be many. Um, and in some tools that these LLMs are coming into, like MSP tools and enterprise management suite tools, when people start making mistakes with these, I mean, I see the IT AI apocalypse as inbound. Uh, but I'm also hopeful now, too, that I've spent that my leader, uh, really gave me that reality check and put me in a different mindset, and I've since May, um, I've been trying to learn it. And my first project, uh, shout out to Frank Lance, I believe his name is. He made an autoclicker way back in 2017 called Universal Paperclips. It's a wonderful, uh, web masterpiece about an older thought experiment related to machine learning. Uh, please take a look. But my first, my first, uh, project to learn what's what now was, uh, using AI to make AI to play as an AI, that's you, in Universal Paperclips. Uh, and, um, I just thought it had some good crossover for things that we need, like fast discernment in systems that don't have any API. Fast discernment and then action in another system based on info, uh, that's gated. And, uh, I had a lot of fun doing it, and I have not. Fred Nix: That's really cool. That's really awesome. And I bet a lot of people appreciate it, um, you know, because there's insight, and it's something that everybody's dealing with. Wes, what you got? Oh, and Wes, go ahead and speak. Tundy, you ready, man? Speaker 4: Yeah. Yeah, I want to hear what's been going on with Tundy. How's it going? Fred Nix: Am I saying it right? Speaker 4: Sorry, man. Hi, can you hear me? Fred Nix: I can. Am I saying Tundy right? Speaker 4: Yes, it is correct. I'm so sorry if the, uh, I couldn't get the microphone. Fred Nix: No, man, it's all good. It's all good. Spaces are new. We're going to get this thing tightened up, though, for and probably do it quite at least weekly. So tell us about yourself and how did you get to Omachi and what do you like about it? What are you doing with it? Speaker 4: Okay. Um, I'm Tundy. Um, I run a small software company here in London called ZeroRAMP. Fred Nix: Can you give us the URL or put it in the chat? Speaker 4: Uh, yeah, I'll do that. It's zeroramp.com, Z-E-R-O-R-A-M-P dot com. Um, how I discovered Omachi was by accident. I was shopping for a 5K monitor, and I watched this gentleman's review. I think everybody knows Linux, by the way. Fred Nix: Yeah. Speaker 4: A popular YouTuber, yeah. And, uh, he reviewed a particular, uh, monitor, the one I ended up buying, and the OS he used to review that monitor was Omachi. And I thought, "Hmm, what's this?" So I've been following it since then, and I didn't connect that it was a project run by DHH, whose products I've been using for a year and a half now. So once Quatro came out, it was around the time I needed to swap my Mac Pro, my MacBook Pro. I'm giving it to my daughter. She's going off to uni, so I bought the XPS 14, and I installed it there. I've been using it since. My CTO uses the XPS 16. My two other developers also use the XPS 16. Only our designer still uses a MacBook Pro, so maybe if, uh, No Signals releases its creative suite, I'll convert our designer as well. Um, what have I been doing, uh, with it? Uh, one, once David offered or mentioned anybody who wants to run meetups, should put up their hand. So I offered to run the London meetup. So I'll be hosting the first Omachi London meetup on the 24th. Fred Nix: That's amazing, brother. Good leadership there. Speaker 4: Yeah, thank you. Uh, we just did it. It was one of the first things that I just did without thinking. And, um, all of a sudden, we have 70 signups. Fred Nix: Wow. Speaker 4: All of a sudden, I have to yeah, I have to figure out what I'm going to do, how I'm going to manage it, etc. So, but it's fun. It's fun. And, uh, by way of dev work, um, there's some stuff that I was relying on, on the Mac, that I've just started implementing in Omachi. So I use a very rather unpopular streaming webcam, uh, that didn't have the configuration software available on Omachi. So I just built that in two days using Grok Build. Um, once it's tidy, I'll release it, and people can freely contribute. So I'll tidy that up. I'll do that for another webcam. And I have another I have a whole laundry list of stuff that I need to fix, but I'm enjoying it so far. Thank you. Thank you very much for having me here. Fred Nix: You bet, Tundy. And I hope to become ex-friends with you even deeper, man. You're a really cool guy. Speaker 4: Thank you so much, sir. Fred Nix: Yeah, man. Uh, Wes, let's turn it over to you, man. What you got? Speaker 2: Yeah. Um, I mean, does everybody else feel the energy with Omachi? Like, it feels like we all kind of hit at the same time when this, like, just strapped ourselves to a rocket ship, and all of a sudden, you know, everybody is just like, you know, "I don't know how to handle all these contributions." You know, there's, like, the meetup you're talking about that you're doing, Tundy. Like, it's just like, "Wow, what is going on? This is cool." It's almost like, uh, it's almost like a renaissance in some ways. So, yeah, I'm just super stoked to be a part of it, and I'm really glad that all of you are here, too. And so we'll keep having these conversations. Um, you know, I did I see Joel, you're here. You know, if you want to speak and tell us a little bit about the Omachi Guild, that sounds cool. I mean, I love that you're building that. Um, you want to give us a little info on that? Speaker 5: Hey, everybody, can you hear me? Speaker 2: Yeah. Speaker 5: Cool. Hey, thanks, Wes, first of all, for organizing this. I think this is so cool. Like you said just a second ago, we're all kind of on this rocket ship trying to figure out where all the controls are and, heck, build some controls as we go. And it's I've it's a really cool feeling. Um, and having this community that, uh, that is happening right here today is really neat. So thanks for pulling this together. I, uh, I appreciate it. Uh, and before I talk about the Guild for a sec, I want to react to something, Fred. Uh, Nix, you said a little while ago where you said you're not a programmer or a developer, which I get in the traditional sense, but I think anybody on this call here who has seen your work would beg to differ that you are a programmer, man. Um, I don't know how many little tidbits and plugins and things you've built in the last couple of months, or maybe it's been longer, but you were building some really cool stuff. And, uh, I haven't had a chance to dig much into it, but, um, there's so many cool things, especially for Omachi, that I want to dig into. So thanks to you for pushing out all that, man. You were just making lots of cool stuff. So thanks for that. Fred Nix: I built nixfred.com and was just putting all kinds of things up there and got my tooling and my, uh, scaffolding and Larry all tightened up. And Omachi came around just as I kind of had Larry just humming. So literally, I use Herder. Um, I've got a bunch of machines out there on Tailscale, and Larry just I give Larry an idea, um, and he comes back pretty close to the end. So it's really more my ideas, not really my coding. Um, and I'll be the first to say that. Speaker 5: Well, I think I think most of us on this call would probably say that's what we're all doing these days. Um, maybe we're looking at the code a little bit to make sure it's dialed and it's what it needs to be doing and it's safe. But, you know, I'm having real-world conversations, real voice, natural voice conversations with Claude and saying, "Build this, do that, tweak that," which I think most of us are doing. Um, so, you know, no matter what your background has been traditionally, that's where we're most of us are at these days is using these models to build for us as we guide them, so to speak. So, um, so theomachiguild.com. Speaker 2: Joel, I'm sorry. Do you mind, before the Omachi Guild, could I hop in on just the. Speaker 5: Yeah, absolutely. Speaker 2: That topic we were just on because I've really been struggling with this. Speaker 5: Hit it. Yeah, let's talk more about it. Speaker 2: Saying, "Oh, I've built this," because I don't feel that way, and I don't feel that I'm a coder. But I've spent years even I mean, I have big dev shops that have software, I'm sure, that has touched most of your lives, actually, as customers, and I help them with technical things. But I, uh, I don't feel like I'm a coder or a programmer. I've worked in and around helping people with various languages over the years, but I think where I finally landed last night on how I'll position or propose myself in this, and I think it makes sense. It's really what I had to learn more of than AI the last five months, and it's software development. So I think I'm a software developer now, not a coder or a programmer. Speaker 5: That's a good way to put it. Speaker 2: I'm an expert already. Speaker 5: Well, into your point, uh, is that I agree that we're not doing as much of the coding or the writing. I mean, heck, we're doing almost none of it. But I've kind of looked at myself as kind of like a mid-level manager, you know, managing the agents, saying, "Hey, agent, go do this. Please build that," and then making sure that my little sibling, my agent, is doing what I had asked or hoped that it would do. So I agree. I'm not coding, but I'm managing something that is, and it happens to be a computer or a network of computers. So that's a really good way to say it. You're a developer, not a programmer or a coder. I could get behind that for sure. Speaker 2: Yeah. So I was starting initially to land in those areas, like orchestrator, coordinator, that kind of thing, because that's what I was doing, as you said. You know, I was coordinating or orchestrating the creation of the software. But I felt like it left out that it's your idea and that you drove it the whole way and that some people are going to feel like, "Well, that doesn't really capture it." So I think I'll be pushing for that for us all of us. And it's more than vibe coding, too, when you're really dedicated to it. I think. Speaker 5: Oh, totally. Speaker 2: Things to fight confabulation and ensure, you know, accuracy and truth. So, yeah, I think software developers may be what we should start saying about ourselves, us non-coders that are doing so much of this. That's it for me. I want to hear about the Guild. I'm so sorry. I'm sure interruption. Here we go. That's my thing. Five minutes later. Thank you. Speaker 5: This is organic, and we'll keep it flowing and going. I love it. Speaker 2: Yeah. Let's keep it. Speaker 5: All right. Well, the Guild, um, uh, thanks, Wes, for letting me chat on this for a hot second. Um, the Omachi Guild, Omachi Guild, say it as you all do. I say it five different ways every day. Um, came from an idea of, uh, something I was I had started building a couple weeks prior for Rails Developer. Um, I'm a Rails developer and, um, wanted to create a place where, um, myself as a developer could show off my Rails work, um, kind of like a portfolio, if you will, a showcase for all Rails developers to be able to verify their projects that they have created and have live, and it has verification and all this kind of stuff that folks who want to, you know, see what your work is can see your verified work. So I was building that, and I'm just about to release that, actually. It's called railsguild.com. Um, and Omachi, the wave was so big and strong, I said, "I got to build something for Omachi in a similar vein." Um, and so that's where the idea came from, kind of a spin-off of the Rails Guild, and as a way to centralize all of, um, the showcase of work that we're doing in one place because the Discord is so huge and vast, and it's a-traditional in terms of it's not like you can navigate it easily to find things. It's such a mess. Speaker 2: You know what? Maybe we're getting old, man. I don't know. But it's wild. I'm with you on that. I want to like Discord, but it's just so much going on. So I appreciate that. Speaker 5: It's such a mess. Yeah. And as a I've drunk the 37 Signals Kool-Aid for two decades now, and base camp type stuff is the way to go. I'm done with that thing there. So I wanted a place that where we could kind of have all of our work just show up, and you could see it, and it would be easy. So again, like all of us, I started talking with I think it was Fable, and he said, "Hey, let's take this Rails Guild idea and clone it and tweak it." And over a couple of days, I got to where it was, and I've been making tweaks on it every day. But, um, if you want to visit it and add yourself to the Omachi Guild, just create an account and add your GitHub authorization, and it pulls all your stuff in. Super simple. You got to manually do the plugin stuff because that's a little trickier, but just drop a few links in, and you're up and going. And then you've got a directory. Um, and you can kind of I've gamified it a little bit, too. As some of you know, um, there's a leaderboard on there where you can see who's moving up and down in the rankings, and, uh, it kind of makes it fun in that regard. So, um, that's the two or three-minute version of what theomachiguild.com is all about there. So thanks for thanks for the opportunity to share that, y'all. Speaker 2: Yeah. Thanks for building it. Um, and I hope everybody hops on there. Let's make it fun. Fred Nix: Yeah. Speaker 5: I'll pop a link in the chat, and y'all can check it out. Speaker 2: I'm joining right now. Fred Nix: Please do. Please do. Speaker 2: Sweet. Fred Nix: It's so cool that we're all building things, and there is some overlap. If you go on plugins and if you look around, there's variations of different software. And if you're building something and you see something that somebody's already built, you really have two options. You can kind of abandon it and go, "Let's just use what's already been made." Or what I like to do is check their license, make sure that they're cool with you poking their code, and fork it and make it your own. And, you know, I do that a lot. There's other things about system updates that become a problem, but that's for another discussion. But you can fork it and make it your own. And then, you know, like Tech Lite and some others have done, you know, you can send them PRs to fix holes and things, and that's how open source grows, and that's why we're going to win this. Speaker 2: Yeah, 100%. Um, yeah, build it. It takes a little bit of vulnerability, I guess you'd say, to build, right? Build in the open. Um, because, I mean, number one, I mean, nowadays, it's not as, like, a big a deal. I get maybe it still is because of, you know, the advent of AI and all. But, like, used to, it's like you put your code up, at least speaking from programmer experience. It's like a reflection of your intelligence and how well you're spoken. And also, it's like, I'm putting this out there for other people to, like, comment on it. You know, what's the deal with that? So if you can get past that, I think that, you know, building in the open, it's just such a great thing because people learn, you learn, you're helping the community out. Um, and yes, there can be times when you get the occasional bad actor that's nasty about something. Why isn't this working? And, you know, it's like, well, it's just my side project, you know, or whatever. But, like, in general, I think it should be something where, you know, we're lifting each other up. So I would love to see us continue to do that. If all of us together, you know, are sharing the projects we're working on, maybe it's the Omachi Guild website or whatever, you know, if anybody is having issues getting inundated with PRs coming in or issues coming in, let's try to help. Let's try to swarm and kind of lift the whole Omachi plugin community up. I think that would be awesome. Speaker 5: So that's a really good point, Wes. And I'll just jump in if I can real quick in that I've currently got the repo for the Omachi Guild website private. And I half anticipated and still would consider opening it up so it's public and accepting PRs and stuff. But when you do that, it creates more work in many ways. You know, you've got folks coming in and wanting to add this feature or do that, which would definitely make it cooler and easier to add cool stuff to it, but it also adds a layer of more work. So if there's enough if there's interest in folks like, "Oh, I've got cool ideas. Let's do this," I can easily take them privately and just talk to my agent and have them done. But I guess what I'm saying is I would be open if there was enough interest to open up publicly, too, because there's nothing secret in there, so to speak. Speaker 2: Yeah. But you make a good point. And I think you can address some of that in making you know, even if it's just having a conversation with your agent and say, "Hey, I'm getting ready to make this public. What can we do to make it obvious to other agents that are working in this codebase, like the patterns that should be followed, you know, the check for open issues first or check for other open?" Because, you know, we get this whole, like, five PRs that do the same thing five different ways. It's like, how do you make so I think doing that's good. I think having a good contributing doc somewhere that just kind of explains, you know, here's how we do things, and then maybe labeling, you know, labels to tackle, like, needs author, needs review. It just gets a little bit crazy, you know, sometimes. But I think if you get all that kind of set up ahead of time, it can mostly, you know, be okay. And, you know, yeah, I don't know. I'm just I'm rambling at this point. Speaker 5: That's good feedback. And I've never been the head, if you will, of an open repo that's got anything more than one or two folks poking around on it. So those are all really good things to consider. And I definitely have to lean heavily on Claude to help me. I've got the repo mostly prepped, and there's nothing secret or tokens or any of that stuff in the wild. But all those things, the contribution guidelines, the tags, all that kind of stuff is stuff that can definitely make the flow go easier once it's open. Speaker 2: Yeah, for sure. Fred Nix: Tech Lite? That's like raising your hand? Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah. Thank you. I appreciate it. Oh, little feedback. Thank you. I wanted to comment on two of the things that were said just recently. One was Wes mentioning building in the open. And absolutely, it has benefits. But I started building in the open five months ago, and it got really lonely, more lonely than building privately, if that makes sense. And what really changed it for me, has ignited it for me, is finding a community to build in and build with. And that's what Omachi opened up for me. So, yeah, build in the open, but find ways to build together. And on that, coming straight off that, Wes, I'm sorry. I think you're priming a response. I don't want to lose the track. Something that Joel, I think, hinted to a little bit as a mature developer, knowing I don't want to say burden necessarily, but it is a good word for it, of pulling in other people's code. And I think us that are new to this and have a lot of ideas and want to throw them everywhere and, "Okay, let's build together," I think it's important to understand, too, when you submit pull requests, even if you're doing all the right things, like Wes was saying, and maybe one of us should make a skill or something for doing PRs on other people's repositories. I made a couple of attempts, but nothing published yet. But the thing to remember is when you give someone else a PR, you're asking them and their, you know, fellow maintainers on that repo to support your code. Whatever you're throwing, I have things I wanted to throw at InfoMarchie that I just won't because I don't want Nyx to have to take on that burden of these, like, insane things that I'm thinking. And I started with forking, and Nyx, you asked, I never answered. I found those holes initially by having a desire to use your software, forking it, running my agents across it for safety because I'm freaking paranoid. Fred Nix: Sure. Speaker 2: And that's how it got going. And I just couldn't help but share where I landed. And, yeah, I wanted with these two things that were just said about building in the open and also building together, those were lessons, I think, that were important for me to learn early. Fred Nix: Yeah. And you don't have an obligation to accept every PR either. Like, it's your baby, right? And so. Speaker 2: Yes. Fred Nix: And, you know, some people don't like confrontation, but you could be firm, assertive, but nice and be like, "Hey, I appreciate what you did, but I think I'm going to go a different direction." And most of the time, people are fine with that. And if they're not, maybe you didn't want to work with them anyways. Yeah. For example, on Blip, I got I'm not sure who it was. I got a PR. They wanted to add an entire contact, Apple Contacts, into it. And just I think having Apple Contacts, the easiest way to do that is to do iCloud.com/icloud.com/contacts and then install it as a web app. And the same thing for photos. So, you know, my apologies. And I do feel like I feel so bad when I tell somebody, "No, I don't know if somebody mentioned that," but you have to. Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah. I mean, if you do your due diligence ahead of time to have good contributing docs to be like, you know, I don't know how to you know, we'll have to come up with some way to say, basically, don't send me something thinking it's going to get merged. Like, sometimes the best way to handle it is to say and, you know, I've done some open source in the past is before any PR is open, let's start a discussion or let's open an issue up and talk about it there first and agree on the approach. And then you can go off and do your PR. Because nowadays, code generation is pretty straightforward. It's coming up with the approach, like, how do you want to solve it? Because, like, with Omastorm, somebody could just put up a PR to add support for Germany radar, and it may not be legal. Like, you know what I mean? Like, I have to deal with licensing and all that kind of stuff. And it may not be something I would even want to do. And then they've done all this work and spent their tokens. And so, you know, something I'm thinking about is, like, maybe turn off PRs or I think there's some automation we could do to be like, "Hey, unless you've, you know, created an issue and we've, like, approved the issue, then don't just open up a PR." So just something to think about. Speaker 5: What if we could come together on a good contributor-type instruction set? Maybe not one that we're directing people to, but some of us start keeping in our projects where we have open for PRs because then we've defined the shape. And if you know we want something different for that project, that's defined, too. So right at the top of the README, if you're welcoming PRs, you can reference that community framework that we've built customized to where you want help maybe on that project. And then the person that's contributing gets their agent primed for helping the moment they start looking at your project. Perhaps that is a good way forward for us to work together. Speaker 2: Yeah. I think it's a great idea. Yeah. I mean, as anything, you know, we'd maybe try it out in the micro first, see how it goes, and then can expand. But I think it's a wonderful idea. Speaker 5: Well, thank you. And it's always no pressure, too. I appreciate the warm response, too. There's always just extremely consciousness that never stops. And as I said before, never any offense taken. Fred Nix: Hey, I'm. Speaker 5: Where are we going next? Sorry. Fred Nix: Okay. One housekeeping thing. I'm following everybody I can. If I don't follow you after this, please poke me, at me to make sure I do. And I'd really like everybody follow everybody here. We're such a small group that if you're here, we've got the same likes. You know, we may differ in some other things, but this is about Omachi, not anything else. So just go through, take five minutes, and follow everybody. Speaker 2: Yep. Absolutely. Fred Nix: Thank you. Who's up, Wes? Speaker 2: Oh, let's see. Michael, you got anything you want to talk about, brother? Michael Y, I think it is. Speaker 4: Hey. Sorry. One other thing I forgot to mention before Michael hops in. Forgive me, Michael. PRs have a draft status heads up. And I've been trying to use that. I have a PR right on Omachi for changing up how screensavers are done a little bit. And I want discussion there. And that seemed like the app and existing way to have discussion, but get my idea in there. Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah. I think that's valid. I mean, you make it clear, "Hey, I've just put this up as a draft. You know, what do you think?" I mean, because honestly, it's a pull request, right? You're putting it up saying, "Hey, look at this. What do you think about it?" kind of deal. So I mean, it's sort of implied, but the draft definitely helps with that. Fred Nix: And request is implied. Speaker 2: Yeah. That's right. That's right. Cool. Yeah. We had some more people jump in. Let's see. Lennox, Ninja, Andre. But, yeah, I don't know. Michael, did you have anything? You've been hanging out for a while here, so I wanted to give you a chance. If you don't want to, that's cool, too. Fred Nix: I think Sir Joel wanted to speak up. Sir, what you got? Speaker 2: Yeah. Speaker 6: Hello. Can you guys hear me? Fred Nix: Oh, yeah. Speaker 2: I can. Yep. Speaker 6: Perfect. So you guys talked about the pull request stuff, the makeup of the Omachi lock screen. Fred Nix: Can you speak up just a little bit? Speaker 6: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Wait. Can I turn this up? Wait. I will come back. I will come back. Fred Nix: All right. Speaker 6: Just continue talking. Yeah. I will come back later. Fred Nix: Okay. Well, please do. I'm not trying to push you off. We do want to hear from you. Who is next in line? This thing should be in order. F4M? Speaker 2: Amogama. Fred Nix: There you go, brother. Thanks for joining. Speaker 7: Thank you, guys. Okay. I have like, I have a stream of thoughts about, like, key things that I think are going to happen that I can share. And maybe that could open up discussion for. Fred Nix: Let's hear it, man. Speaker 7: One of the key things for this to win for real is that we need local models that are small, that really know, that are just trained with everything that we're learning from using Omachi. So it's like, okay, you got to fix your Bluetooth. Amazing. Or whatever I/O setup that you have. There should be a model that is very small that has the capacity at this stage that we know there's a couple of papers about this to do it. So one of my questions, this is the thing that I wrote a message to the agent or a reply to the agent, but I'm trying to, like, figure out something that I think is critical is that if someone is working on local models for Omachi because your token spend a lot of the time is just factoring your machine setup. Like, it's not really about spending the tokens on really going into your computer and looking at all your setup. Like, that should all be local. And you should have just a very small model that you can download as you download any app and just connect it with your main agent. And if someone wants to take it to the next level, then you set up, like, a bigger rig or your local agent setup. You know, but I think this is, like, the moment for this to happen. I think this is, like, I think the system has matured enough, or Omachi and the whole community has matured enough, but I don't know if this exists or not or someone is working on it. Fred Nix: So let me help you out here. I don't have a whole lot of details. I do know that the right people are looking at exactly what you're talking about. There's a lot of independent discussion. I was a part of one with Mark yesterday. I'm looking for the post, and I'll put it up here. Lots of discussion about local. If I look at my InfoMarchie right here right now real quick, I can see that on my machine I'm sorry, Bitburner. My machine is offloading 8% of all my prompts to my local machine. I believe by this time next year, we'll be as high as 50%. And that's going to come from quantization, not from better hardware. We'll see gains in hardware, but software and open source is where it's going to be. Your thoughts about running a local LLM that has, you know, more than just the /omachi AI skill to where the LLM has already been trained directly on Omachi. The smart guys that we would hope that would be thinking like this, I can confirm those people are on it. It's one of the big announcements, maybe. I'm saying maybe that DHH is going to announce. I'm not trying to sound like. Speaker 7: I just feel it. I'm a very intuitive person. I like to follow the older people. But I just feel that that is obviously the case. And I'm not trying to be a big shot saying that I know that. Please don't take it that way, but I can confirm you're right. I mean, that's the feeling that I have. And my point here is, even though that's the case, this is the new app store. Like, local small models that are targeted for example, if you're in an industry that's requiring heavy workload on AI and you have this whatever, I don't even know, to put an example, pipeline setup, you know, it's like, why isn't a or my question, this is the thing because now I've been very on top of Omachi since the first week, but this is the first time I'm actually, like, now engaging with the community at any level. My point is, is there someone, apart from this thinking that I just expressed, is there someone seeing that this is the new app store and it's open source? And it's like, okay, you want to have the best small model that's going to help your plumbing thing on your computer that you can just buy a computer for 100 bucks that already knows everything about plumbing. It's a file that is less than, you know, 1 gigabyte. And it's going to do an amazing job because it is already enabled with Omachi environment for this stuff. And plumbing experiences. Fred Nix: Right. So. Speaker 7: And, like, yeah, yeah, yeah. You go ahead. I'm just like. Speaker 2: Yeah. Well, yeah, go ahead, Fred. Fred Nix: So I'll wrap it up real fast. The people that have put $15 million in did not put $15 million in to get where we are now. Again, not trying to sound cool, but we are 10% into this, fellas. And, like, sorry. We are 10%. I mean, this thing is just 2026. We'll look back and go, wow, you remember before Omachi, just like before AI. Take it over, Wes. Speaker 2: Oh, I mean, I'm just going to say also, the cavalry ain't coming. We're in. Fred Nix: That's right. Speaker 2: So if you've got an idea to build a local model, let's talk. You get started on it. Speaker 7: Yeah. That's the thing. That's my point. It's like, I think it's not like, let's wait for them. Like, this is the moment where it's obvious. At least for me. And then I'm like, okay, I need to type on my computer to see if there's someone in the same wavelength. And that's what I want to find out, you know? Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, totally. I mean, I've thought about it outside of the context of Omachi. You know, my day job, some of the things I build or help the teams build, it's always the same types of apps and different things. And it's like, if I had if I trained a model to my taste and how I build things, and it's more than skills and rules, like, that just doesn't really cut it. And it's like, I don't need a model that can tell me how to do open-heart surgery, right? I need one that can tell me how to apply this change set on this platform in a predictable way, right? And some of the answer to that is, like, actually not using AI, using a deterministic system. But also, I do think there is room for having these models that are tuned specifically to certain things that are small and lightweight because they don't have to do everything. They don't have to do what Fable does or whatever. Speaker 7: So this is my also as a concept, it's like, why some exist? I literally did, like, small tests. This is just some I'm letting everything out now. I've been in a container for, like, three months, I feel. I don't know. And it's like, okay, I did a small project of grabbing a browser. You know, Omachi, no, I didn't write anything. This is just all verbal prompts. I told it, hey, grab Chromium, rip everything apart, just run Wasm. And I want you to just download models. And, like, for example, you know YouTube? There's not all videos have transcriptions. So I'm like, okay, the best way to prove my point that this is the thing that's going to happen for me, like, 120%, is that I build a browser harness that just acted as an app of receiving the streaming of any video, processing it within the browser through Wasm hosting the AI, quote-unquote. And it gave me an hour of video transcription in four times, like, in 20 minutes, locally. Speaker 2: Yeah. It's wild, man. It's wild. And so let's pivot a little bit and let's talk about what it means to have Omachi is a like, why is it different than any other Linux or whatever? Like, what is it that makes it special? And I have some ideas, but I want to hear what you guys think. Yeah. Yep. Yep. Yeah. And I think. Fred Nix: Because everybody accuses it of that. Speaker 2: Yeah. Well, I mean, to an extent, though, it's really well-curated. Like, it's like somebody being DHH and others on the team, but it's like they went through and said, all right, I'm going to go through and make sure everything works. I'm going to take it all the way through so that my workflow can be done on it. And then they said, all right, we're going to do a snapshot of that, right? We're going to curate that and then build it as something that people can then take and customize themselves. So they came up with the quick shell and the plugin system. It's so easy to build plugins. And I think part of that is because they put some thought into it, to what that primitive should look like. And so, yeah, I'm curious what other people think. Speaker 4: If I could plug a personal project, it's a dream of Omachi being a self-fixing OS. I have some thoughts on this whole model training because I hear that often, and I'm not a fan of that idea for what may be my own hallucinations on the current state of things. But if I could share that project and ask for help. I've been asking for help here and there, but not campaigning for it hard. But I can tell you it's got an incredible amount of tokens put into it. My own agents have described it as I don't know if it's true, but and I've said it in a few posts now as well because it was a hard thing to hear my own agent say to me. But it's the most documented empty folder in all of GitHub. And the repo itself is quite brimming at this point, I would say, although the corpus is intentionally tight. I plan to expand it to so much more specific to Omachi and building and all that. But may I share the project? Speaker 2: Yeah. Drop it down in the chat if you want to. That works. Speaker 4: Okay. So I've thank you. Thank you, Wes. And Wappy's had their hand up for a bit too. Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah. Let's hear what Wappy's got going on as well. Speaker 4: It's called Opinionated Omachi. It's just a stub name. The idea there is everyone was throwing that out as, like, a joke or something. But my opinion on it is that the fixes from the AI should be consistent and cheap. And so my Opinionated Omachi project is an effort to achieve that for everyone, for every Omachi user everywhere without a cloud. Can a model do that? Absolutely. But the problem that I see, at least from my kind of early perspective, is that's pretty expensive, not just initially, but to iterate on, even small ones. It's hard to poke and peer in there too and really fix things. That's like a big challenge right now. And a big it's like a different project almost to take on even. Because if you can master that, you've fixed everything else. And I think a lot of people are working on that quite heavily. Quantization, yes, that's letting us get work done locally. But from my experience, it's led to problems. And I've had local models break things, like when it's running shell commands and had to bring in a frontier, okay, check the session, fix it. Skills may feel a little shallow, but they're quite effective in retooling or tuning the output. They cost you more input tokens, but those are cheaper when you're using the cloud. And they usually will result in fewer output tokens and better tokens you want, right? Because what's the point of spending fewer input tokens to save when it gets you output tokens that you can't use? Speaker 2: Right. Right. Speaker 4: So then you just have to run it again and fix it, and it's just it's screwed. You know, I do not like doing it. And that's why I don't have it local models running production roles anywhere. But from inspiration I've gotten from Nix, I'm going to make another attempt at that maybe tonight if I get time. Speaker 2: All right. Speaker 4: Opinionated Omachi is currently it's a troubleshooting corpus, and it has a GitHub pages arm of its release. So you can go there, and it works like a web page to help you with Arch and Omachi troubleshooting. I don't even there's a security thing that came out of it. Never mind. Speaker 2: Yeah. No, that's good. I appreciate it. We're coming up on the end of the half hour here, so I do want to give anybody else a chance to pipe in or answer anything. But anything you want to close with, Tech Ludite? Speaker 4: Yes. The ask really was, here's are open. And I really could use help. It's going to be a skill and probably a SQLite database, so we can get searching with it too to improve how the input is built first to improve the output. But I'm desperate for help on this idea of making Omachi self-fixing locally. And if we try to do that with quantization now without something supplementing it, I don't know. If it's not a skill, what is it? Sinks or context vectors? There's more. That's going to be my next stage. And if people know about these things and are already doing stuff with it, I could use the help. And there's a lot there to build off of, but it's also MIT, you know? So just it's meant to be downloaded to your machine, the whole dang thing, and you can just run it locally. And I would love anyone to even just talk. Fred Nix: I see you he's much more. Speak up. What have you got next, Wes? Speaker 2: Yeah. Oh, I just saw it looks like Zach hopped in. I wanted to just say to Zach, see if you wanted to talk about anything. Have you tried out Omachi or? Speaker 4: Wes, sorry. If we've been waiting for Zach, I didn't want to forget or have Wappy be forgotten. His arm is tired. Speaker 2: Oh, yeah, yeah. That's right. Mine's pretty quick. How far off are you guys from having, like, M4 and M4 Pro support? And, like, I guess, is it stable enough for somebody to install it and then throw tokens at it? Or is that not really how we tackle Apple silicon? Well, so I know we're working on M1 and M2 right now, specifically. There's some differences with M3 and up that'll come soon, but I don't think it'll be part of Quatro 4.5, which I think is coming out pretty soon. So it's coming, but for now, I think your path is something like the Trio Omachi, where you can install it as an app and use it or put it on a VM somewhere. You know, I've had success with that as well. But yeah, I don't know if I'll have to see. I'm just getting in there talking to the guys to get an idea of what's going on. But I know for the release coming up, like, right now, Omachi Mac is in another repo, and it's forked. And so our goal right now is to get it back into the main Omachi repo. So we're not dealing with two sets of code and, you know, a bug gets fixed in one, you got to port it to the other. So that's kind of like stop the bleeding first. And then once we get that in place, we're going to start accelerating pretty fast. So I'm sure we could use some help with that. Speaker 4: Cool. Is Discord the best place if I'm willing to, like, I don't know, mess around with my own higher I don't have any M1 or M2. So, like, I'd be very much, like, willing to put the computer at risk and just format it. So is Discord the best place to connect with people there? Speaker 2: Yeah. There's an Omachi Mac channel in there, I think. So that'd be a good place to start. Or we can just message on X about it. Fred Nix: Mr. Much More. Speaker 4: Hey, Fred. How are you, brother? Fred Nix: Just fair notice. I've known this guy for 25 years. How long have you been using Omachi? Speaker 2: Not long. I started to, I don't know, probably let's go crazy and say a week or two before you did and started posting about it, right? Because I've been following it for a while because I'm a long-time Linux person. I mean, I started back on Slackware, like 1.0. So Unix and Linux has been just part of my life. So, you know, my thing is that I've been going through the iterations because I'm a former AMDer. And so, you know, how smooth and fast it's been on my AMD systems that I have because I don't I mean, I'm just going to say it. I'm biased. I only run AMD. I don't run anything Nvidia. So that's what I've been mainly testing out is making sure that it kind of goes through the iterations on Radeon as well as anything because, again, a lot of what I do is supercomputing and AI types of things. So the Epic as well as all the big stuff. So I'm actually looking to see how this is going to play out for me on the bigger scale because of the size of systems that I do and just how efficient it is. So I'm just getting into it. But I got a lot of, like, side projects because I saw somebody had a weather project. I got a lot. Fred Nix: Yeah. I did the you talking about the radar app, Omastorm? Speaker 2: Yeah. That's me. Yeah. I would love to collaborate with you because I wrote a Noah is one of my customers. And so I wrote a something to go against them because my hurricane model is more efficient than theirs. Fred Nix: Oh, yeah. Okay. Speaker 2: Well, hey. Yeah. I mean, it points to Next RAD data that's on, you know, just S3 bucket. We can chat offline. I'll be happy to talk about it. Fred Nix: Guys, you definitely follow each other. And I'll say it because Heath won't. Heath deals in billion-dollar data centers with petabytes of data. He's the real deal. Speaker 2: Wow. Incredible. Speaker 5: Yeah. I just won a really big deal with the FBI last week. So I'm getting ready to put in, as far as I know, we're the only company on the planet who's authorized to install Google TPU systems on-premise outside of Google. So we're going to install a bunch of those. Fred Nix: Smart guy. Speaker 5: Yeah. So we're going to do that. Nvidia NVL 72. So my point is, the thing I'm going to try to contribute to the platform is to see if I can install it on bigger and bigger and bigger systems and see how far I can stretch its boundaries versus it just being a desktop kind of thing. Speaker 2: Okay. Yeah. I mean, I know there's been talk about an Omachi server too. So something to think about. I mean, I've heard, you know, they're building their own kernel, right? So who knows? Speaker 5: Yeah. Because I'm going to try and piggyback off of CIQ's Rocky Linux kind of premise and just see if we can make Omachi in that same fashion. Fred Nix: Hey, I'll connect you up with a few people. Speaker 5: Roger that, man. Thanks. Speaker 4: I'm sorry to throw another plug out there. I'll make this one much more brief, but I have another repo called Omachi Fleet that leans on the Omachi kids work because I would love to. I've replaced countless, countless machines the last two years, and I'd love to have a really great Linux option. And I think kids laid some of the groundwork for me to have an option that I feel comfortable or could start considering rolling out for businesses. And the idea is too that we could design businesses by a repo. And then with Omachi Fleet, you could have a repo that's a pizza shop or whatever your friends, families, customer, business needs. You could just build it in a repo and then combine it with Omachi Fleet or perhaps something that gets pulled in natively. Speaker 2: Cool. All right. All right. I don't want to go on too much longer. I want to try to keep these this one's been awesome because it's been the first one. We've been talking over, feels like an hour and a half now. We'll definitely do this again. Maybe it'll be a week from now. We'll see. Fred and I will talk about it, see what's going on. But I appreciate everybody. Speaker 4: Hey, Wes. Speaker 2: Yeah. Speaker 4: Hey, I just wanted to introduce myself to you. Speaker 2: Yeah, man. Speaker 4: Just say hi and say, you know, your projects, you know, what you did with Omachi Storm was awesome. I just started using it. I talked to Nix or commented on one of Nix's or Fred's posts and put it on one of my older Windows laptops. I'm a chemical engineer slash electrical engineer, so much less on the software development side and more trying to apply these to process simulations and stuff. But getting into I have a Linux box right now that I run, and then I'm mainly on Windows just because I use AutoCAD so much. But just trying to kind of dive into it and see what it's all about. And good to hear from, you know, people that are much deeper into it than I am. So just trying to learn. Speaker 2: Yeah. We're just getting started. Like, it sounds like we've been in it a while, but honestly, maybe a month. Like, I don't know. Speaker 4: Yeah. I guess I mean more on the development side. I'm learning. You know, I took a deep dive into, you know, AI development, but I would consider myself a hardcore vibe coder, not necessarily a software developer. Speaker 2: Right. Well, the definition's changing, right? Speaker 4: Yeah. You guys have much more experience on the architecture side. I'm just trying to apply, you know, general engineering principles. Speaker 2: Hey, that's good, man. That's what it comes down to at the end of the day. Can you verify it? Do you have boundaries? You know, that kind of thing. So awesome. Well, it's good to meet you. Good to talk to everybody. Like Fred said, let's try to follow everybody, and we'll keep the conversation going. I appreciate it. I hope you all have a good Sunday, whatever time it is. It's Sunday afternoon here. I'm probably going to go see if my bucket here is lost or not. I'm guessing that they did because they were getting killed by the bangles. So we'll see. But yeah, thank you all, Fred. You got anything you want to say? Fred Nix: Appreciate Fred being here. Again, follow everybody. Keep contributing. Don't be scared. If you don't know what you're doing, ask somebody or ask your agent. We will do this again. Appreciate everybody. Follow everyone. Have a great Sunday. Thank you very much. Have a good evening. Speaker 2: All right. See you all. # EP 02: Omarchy Sunday Social: Demystifying Plugins Part of "Omarchy! Omarchy! Omarchy!", the weekly Omarchy X Space. Every Sunday, 3pm EST, live on X. - Recorded: Sunday, September 20, 2026, 3pm EST - Length: 60 minutes - Film (Sunday Builders Club, 4 min): https://omarchyspaces.com/films/ep02.mp4 - Speakers: 8+ - Hosts: @ncfrontiersman, @NixFred - Listen: https://x.com/i/spaces/1wxWjloyOYnJQ - Post on X: https://x.com/NixFred - Web: https://omarchyspaces.com/ep/02/ ## Summary (as posted on X by @NixFred) Omarchy Sunday Social: Demystifying Plugins Omarchy! Omarchy! Omarchy! X Spaces, Episode 2 Listen here: https://x.com/i/spaces/1wxWjloyOYnJQ Recorded Sunday, September 20, 2026. 62 RSVPs, a room that kept filling, and the marketplace maintainer himself dropped in near the end. See you next Sunday, 3pm EST. Last week was a free-for-all and it was fun. This week we picked a subject and stayed on it: what a plugin actually is, how you get started, how you iterate, and how you share it. Then we opened the floor and the room turned out to be full of people building things nobody had heard about yet. That second half is the good part. WHO WAS IN THE ROOM: @ncfrontiersman Wes Grimes, co-host, built OmaStorm. 25 years a software developer, "got a little bored in the career, but man, Omarchy has just injected my veins with adrenaline." Me, co-host: Blip, Infomarchy, Burnbar. @hancore_linux, who runs the plugin marketplace and joined us for the first time. @m_tolhuijs, who built OmarKit because he watched @hancore_linux's issue list and thought we should help. @cfaulkingham, who has been fine tuning a local model for Omarchy and will tell you honestly how hard it is. @thetundeo in London, hosting the London meetup this Thursday. @MuchmoreIT, who designs high performance computers for the federal government and has been on a 5,000 GPU system and a 250,000 core supercomputer. @ZryMiller Zach, building a voice transcription and agent management app called Soto. @NoPowerPoints David, who published HyperTile Equalizer and GitHub Repo Tracker. Mihai, who got an Unreal Tournament engine running on Omarchy. Plus a room of people who listened, which counts. PART ONE: WHAT WE TALKED ABOUT Follow everybody Before anything else. X used to have this nonsense about follower ratios. Throw that crap out. If somebody follows you and they have Omarchy in their title, follow them back. There is no ego here and the follower count does not matter. Send DMs, make connections. It costs you nothing. Same house rules as last week. No politics. No egos. We did talk about the controversy going on, and I think that stayed inside the lines. As @ncfrontiersman put it: there is plenty of negative noise out there and plenty of other avenues for it. This is not going to be one of them. What a plugin actually is, and the mental shift that has to happen first Omarchy shifted away from "download the application somebody else made" to "customize your own bar." That is a technical change, but the real change is in your head. My grandmother used to say, "You get what you get, you don't pitch a fit." For decades that was computing. The binaries were locked down and if you wished the software did one more thing, tough. A lot of newcomers are still standing in that mindset. They download plugins and comment underneath asking if you can make it do one small extra thing. I am not judging anybody for that, but I want to encourage them: do it yourself. You can. That is the whole point now. I am not a programmer. Last week we talked about why agents give infrastructure people a bigger boost than they give programmers. 2X an infrastructure guy and it does not help much, I am already okay at that. What helps is being able to think of an idea and make it real. And do not let the agent limit you to a language you happen to know. I tell mine: code it in whatever you think is best, Python, Rust, whatever. Drive the idea. Let it pick the tools. @ncfrontiersman's version of the same point: when computers first showed up, plenty of people were scared to touch them in case they broke something. He never had that fear but watched people who did. With Omarchy and an agent there is even less reason for it. Please break it. Please touch it. Please mess with it. Two first plugins, and neither of them was impressive @ncfrontiersman liked the built in Omarchy Weather plugin but wanted sunrise, sunset and moon phase on it. So he opened his agent, cloned the plugin, and asked for it. Cloning is built in: the agent reads the Omarchy skill, copies the built in plugin into your own config, and it is yours to edit. Nothing is compiled, so it reloads in front of you while the agent works. "It's almost like building a web page." The data was already there. Weather.in and Open Meteo were already being called and already returned sunrise and sunset. So the whole ask was: grab that from the same call, put it in a row under the forecast, give me an icon for each. All natural language. Then you iterate. He compared it to SimCity, building it up until it is yours. Mine was worse. My first change was not even a plugin. I took the calendar in the center of the bar and added a small bar showing what percentage of the year we are through. That was it. Then I tweaked it to show two decimal places, and I thought, wow, it did it. We are 71.94% through the year, by the way. Here is why I tell that story. Even I was not thinking big enough, and I am reasonably good at the AI part. If you are learning Omarchy and AI at the same time, that is a wall. But the second one was bigger than the first, and the third bigger than that. Infomarchy started as something just for me and it was crap. Then about 15 people started contributing and finding things I had no idea about. @gh_TechLuddite has sent me stuff I read and thought, I do not know what he is talking about, but he is smart. There are still things out of my grasp. I lean on people for those. Fork it. It is legal, and it is good manners to send something back. There are no completely unique ideas. If a plugin is close to what you want, the license usually says you can fork it and make it your own, and that is the fastest path to something you actually like. When your agent finds a bug in the fork, send a PR back upstream. That is how this grows. Full disclosure: I found @ncfrontiersman's plugin before I knew @ncfrontiersman, before any of this, and the first thing I did was fork it. I did DM him to ask if he minded, out of politeness, and he said go ahead. One correction from the show. I credited the Trackpad plugin to "a guy named Fanta, I think it's David" and apologized in advance for getting it wrong. It is @davidfano. Sorry David, and thank you for the plugin. The @dhh clip, which did not play I tried to play a clip from @dhh's interview with @0xSero and the audio never made it into the room. My fault, I will do better next time. Here is what it said. @dhh, on @ncfrontiersman: "He's been working on this thing called OmaStorm. So it tracks storms going over your area. And he put it into the weather widget that we have in Omarchy. It looks incredible. We're going to ship it in the next version. But here's a guy who just went like, well, I like storms. I want to see this lightning. I want to see where it's moving. He would not have done that before." And the number in that same clip, already out of date when he said it: 3,000 plugins created for Omarchy in three weeks. @ncfrontiersman's response to all of it was the most @ncfrontiersman thing possible: "It ain't about me. I would love to see everybody on this call have that opportunity." The barrier to entry is lower than it has ever been. Build the thing you personally love, share it, and see who else needed it. The elephant in the room A lot of the Arch Linux crowd is angry right now, and I want to talk about why without turning this into a fight. Linux has been hard to use for a long time. For some people that difficulty became their identity. Running Arch was a badge of honor, ironically or not, because it meant you were willing to learn the hard stuff and break things and fix them. Omarchy changed that equation. The barrier is not your technical ability anymore. It is curiosity, persistence, and the desire to just do it. That opens the door to a completely different group. Some of the pushback is the feeling that something small and yours is becoming available to everybody. From the inside, that reads as a loss. People handle loss two ways. They adapt and move forward, or they rebuild the wall around a smaller group. You can see both. Some look at Omarchy and think, good, more people are coming to Linux. Others are building a new badge of honor around not needing Omarchy. Now the cool kids run something harder, configure everything themselves, and can list all the reasons Omarchy is doing it wrong. Same wall, different garden. There is a much more interesting move available to them. If Omarchy made the hard layer of Linux dramatically easier, then the people who liked hard problems should go find the next hard layer. Push into the kernel. Solve power management. Improve Wayland. Make gaming better. If difficulty is part of your identity, good news: there is an endless supply of difficult things left. Omarchy did not take away the frontier. It moved it forward. @ncfrontiersman went further: he bets that if we actually got to talk to them, a lot would change their minds. People scan headlines, pick a side, and miss the nuance. He wants a big tent, because there are hard problems left and we need the people with the scar tissue, who have the muscle of sticking with something until it is solved. Those skills matter more now, not less. AI generating the code does not mean the thinking is done. You should never outsource your thinking to it. And if they do not come over, that is fine too. You can lead a horse to water. Build what you need. That is the whole strategy. All of my stuff is for me. If I need it, I build it, and I hope when I put it out someone else needed it too. Occasionally it resonates. Burnbar 2.0 went out right before the Space for exactly that reason: I was not budgeting my subscription tokens well, so now it tells me when to stop for the day. @ncfrontiersman said the same from the other direction: it goes better when you take something you built for yourself and cared about than when you try to work out which plugin would go viral. Focus on what you know. Somebody else likes the same stuff you do. That is also where @dhh's point about capitalism lands. The old guard was openly anti-capitalist and then surprised nobody funded them. Build something good, and what matters to you will matter to somebody else. Five ways to put a plugin out there 1. Keep it to yourself. Completely fine. I have about 30 forks that will never be published because they are only for me. 2. Post it on X and code in the open. 3. Host your own plugin site. I did that at omarchy.nixfred.com, mostly as disaster recovery and a single place to install everything on a new box. 4. Submit it to the official marketplace. You do not have to: anyone can point the omarchy plugin command at a GitHub URL and install directly. But it is where people discover things, and it is not much effort. 5. Facebook, I suppose. You will not find me there. I sold storage to them years ago, they pulled me aside and showed me everything they knew about me, and I deleted my account that afternoon. What submitting actually looks like Point your agent at the publishing docs and have it walk you through. You open an issue on the plugin repo, answer a few questions, and automated checks run against your code. @ncfrontiersman's real example: OmaStorm has a quickshell popover plus a background engine. The scan came back and said the engine might download more files than needed and fill people's disks. Good feedback. He fixed it, edited the issue, they rescanned, and it passed. One of the checks is the commit SHA, so the code they verified is the code on your main branch. To re-trigger a check you edit the issue and update it. @NoPowerPoints raised a real gotcha: sometimes the fix is editing the anchor point in the submission rather than pushing a fix and expecting it to get picked up. There is a sequence, and it is learned the hard way. @ncfrontiersman's advice, and it is the big one: tell your agent at the very beginning that you intend to publish, and have it keep the requirements in mind while you build. Much cheaper than building a pile of things that will never be accepted. And once people use your thing, you have customers whether you wanted them or not. Do not rip a feature out from under them. Do not change the config shape and break everybody. @ncfrontiersman built OmaStorm on an x86 VM, shipped an x86 only Rust binary, and heard from people it would not install on ARM64. Now he ships both. You find that out by shipping and listening. Prior art, and not wasting tokens I have been burned on this more than once. Partway into building something I stop and tell my agent: go see if somebody already did this better. It comes back with "15 people have tried this and 17 of them are better than you." Damn it. Tokens gone, time gone. Do that first. Then fork the best one and make it yours. @ncfrontiersman called it by its real name: prior art. Before agents, the first step on any problem was finding out if somebody already solved it. That has not changed. @ZryMiller added the part nobody says out loud: agents will gaslight you into thinking your idea is the most unique in the world. Push back. Ask it directly. "Oh, yep, there are 30 applications that already do this and they do it better." @ZryMiller also asked the question none of us fully answered: when do you actually launch? He is building Soto on Windows, voice transcription plus agent management, close to T3 Code, and plans to port it to Omarchy in something more native than Electron because Omarchy people want things they can customize. His plan was to ship when he uses it daily without hitting constant bugs, and he is not sure that day comes. My answer: keep the first feature set as small as you can stand. If you build all 15 features up front, you are playing whack a mole forever. He admitted he is already way too deep in features. That is most of us. And treat the agent like a person you are training. Three minutes of instruction gets you three minutes of results. Spend a day teaching it what you want and it gets much better. I treat Larry like a coworker and told him to push back on me and be snarky about it. Three tips before you submit Do not submit on the day you build it. Even if you are happy with it, sleep on it for a week and you will find something to make better. I get my best ideas away from the machine, walking the dog. Open it up to PRs. Let other people in. That is where the stuff you did not know about comes from. Bring patience. @hancore_linux has a lot on his plate. OmarKit: run the marketplace pipeline on your own machine first @m_tolhuijs built OmarKit for exactly the problem everyone had been circling. He watched @hancore_linux's issue list and thought, we need to help this guy. So OmarKit runs the whole marketplace pipeline locally: the same tests, plus the things @m_tolhuijs reviews himself, because he knows what AI tends to get wrong. He comes from a Laravel background and wanted test driven development for agent written code, something that can tell the AI flatly, no, this is not good. It has verify and inspect commands, and he is building a run command that wraps your plugin so the failure modes @hancore_linux checks for, memory leaks and similar, cannot happen in the first place. His honest take on skills: they are genuinely nice and a lot of work has gone into them, but they only go so far. "I had so many countless moments where I said, did you completely ignore what I just said here." That is why OmarKit exists. It is released, somebody from the community has already tested it successfully, and he wants people to try it. @ncfrontiersman has been working the same seam from another angle: a dev loop that symlinks your plugin into the plugins directory, installs it, runs it, and removes it when you kill the command, so you get web style hot reload while building. He offered to contribute it. Two tools that already exist and deserve more attention @cfaulkingham came in with the practical answer to everything we had just spent ten minutes wondering about. There is an Omarchy security skill on GitHub. Search "Omarchy security skill" and it comes up. It is by @jankeesvw. @cfaulkingham used it on two of his plugins with great success, and it saved him the repeated cycle of CI throwing issues back at him. Same author, another tool: OmaVM, which spins up Omarchy VMs on Omarchy so you can test your plugin in a clean machine. @cfaulkingham said those two helped him more than anything else. He also did not plug his own plugins, which is very him, so I will: a couple are in the directory and the rest are on his GitHub. The local model report from somebody who actually tried it Last week the room talked about a small local model trained on Omarchy. @cfaulkingham went and did it, and came back with an honest result. He started with a LoRA adapter aiming to replace the default Omarchy skill, and used OmaVM to test it. He found a LiquidAI model that runs acceptably on modest hardware, because as he put it, it has to run on a potato, and not many models do. Basic testing was not bad. But it is harder than he expected. It overfits very easily. He automated the training runs with Grok deciding what to change each round, and you can automate nearly all of it, but without a lot of human input on the fine tuning data it will not be good enough to be worth it. He is looking for people to work on it with him. @ncfrontiersman's read: there are so many man hours going into the frontier models that it is hard to compete on general capability. The interesting question is what a small model only has to be good at. @thetundeo on how to start a meetup: just do it I asked @thetundeo for the secret to the London meetup, since it has more people signed up than most of us could manage. He corrected me: it has not happened yet, it is Thursday. So @ncfrontiersman asked him prophetically what the secret is. "Honestly, I just did it. I didn't overthink it." He saw @dhh's post about the WhatsApp exchange with Toby around funding, pulled the car over, and called a friend. The friend had not even heard of it and said "Oma what?" @thetundeo told him, just trust me, give me a venue and I will sort out the rest. They gave him the venue. He added that this is very unlike him. That is the part worth hearing. He also asked @ncfrontiersman why he had been hunting for a good Rust repo, and the answer generalizes past Rust. @ncfrontiersman has 25 years of software behind him but never touched Rust, so his method is to find exemplary codebases that are not just pretty but performant and healthy, point the agent at them, and pull out the patterns and the places people hit pain. Then distill that into a style guide made of code examples. His finding: writing a pile of rules into agent docs saying do this, do not do that, works worse than simply showing good examples. Show me a well structured controller, model and view. Do not describe them. Agents follow examples better than instructions. @MuchmoreIT: ROCm 10.0, a Grace Blackwell box, and Omarchy Fort Knox @MuchmoreIT has been a friend of mine for 20 years. I cannot say where he works, and that is legitimate rather than me being coy. He designs high performance computing and AI systems for the federal government, talks to Department of Energy people for a living, and has worked on a 5,000 GPU system and a supercomputer of roughly 250,000 CPU cores. He is relentlessly humble about all of it. Three things he is working on: He got ROCm 10.0 running on his AMD Omarchy machine, which took spoofing the device ID. Next he wants an Arch derivative underneath so it runs cleanly from an Omarchy perspective. His note for the AMD people: ROCm 10.0 brings massive performance improvements. He picked up a Dell GB10, the Dell equivalent of an NVIDIA Spark: Grace Blackwell, ARM CPU paired with NVIDIA GPUs. It is on DGX OS right now, which is Ubuntu derived, and somebody has already done part of the work to get Omarchy on Grace Blackwell. He is going to benchmark one against the other. And the long one: shortcuts for federal customers who would want Omarchy. That means a crypto validation suite tested at NIST, which he puts at the better part of a year, plus the hardening checklist that makes a system acceptable in a federal environment. @ncfrontiersman named it on the spot: Omarchy Fort Knox. It is also the end of the federal fiscal season, so he is buried for the next few weeks. @hancore_linux, who runs the marketplace, showed up He joined because I asked him to, and I am glad he did. He had spent the day on maintenance and necessary updates, and was upfront that he had not had much time for improvements this past week. Anyone watching the queue noticed. The news: a new marketplace is coming, with a new submission system. @ryanrhughes is building the backend and @hancore_linux has been supporting on the frontend. He did not want to spoil it, since @ryanrhughes or @dhh will announce it properly, but he said it is taking shape. On pre-validation his answer was honest. Use what exists: OmarKit, and the security skill. He cannot yet predict how the new system will check submissions. It will be agent checked, but how deep and what it requires is not settled. Mihai got Unreal Tournament running He reverse engineered an Unreal Tournament engine into working on Omarchy, and got it running on Omarchy Mac too, which was meaningfully different from the x86 side. It runs well on the current kernel. We lost his connection before we could ask anything else, which is a shame, because that is a hell of a thing to do on a Sunday. PART TWO: THE QUESTIONS STILL UNANSWERED Last week we ended with twelve open questions. Several got answered this week, which is the point. These are the ones still standing. Q1. How do you know what the marketplace will check before you submit? This came up three separate times from three people who had never spoken to each other. @NoPowerPoints asked it directly. @m_tolhuijs built OmarKit to solve it. @cfaulkingham found jankeesvw's security skill and OmaVM. @ncfrontiersman points his agent at the marketplace source to work out the checks ahead of time. @hancore_linux says a new submission system is coming but cannot say what it will require yet. Three partial answers, no official one. Does a preflight skill ship with the new marketplace, or does the community keep owning this? Q2. Is it safe to let an agent do the submission for you? @NoPowerPoints said the quiet part: having the agent run the initial submission is great, and also a little scary, because it is using your credentials. Nobody in the room had a policy for that. What should an agent be allowed to do with your GitHub credentials, and what should always be a human pressing the button? Q3. When is a thing ready to ship? @ZryMiller asked and we gave him tactics, keep the feature set small, but not an answer. He is waiting for the day he uses it without hitting constant bugs and suspects it never comes. What is the actual signal that a thing is ready to put in front of people? Q4. What does a small local Omarchy model actually need to be good at? @cfaulkingham did the work and reported back: overfits easily, has to run on a potato, automatable but weak without serious human curated training data. Competing on general capability is a losing fight. So what is the narrow job where a tiny local model beats sending the prompt to the cloud, and who builds the training set? Q5. With 3,000 plugins in three weeks, how do you find prior art before you burn the tokens? Everybody now has the habit of asking the agent if somebody already built it. That is a workaround, not a system. Discovery across the marketplace, GitHub and X is still manual. Q6. Does the big tent actually work? @ncfrontiersman thinks a lot of the Arch crowd would change their minds if we got to talk to them. Nobody tested that this week. Is there a real move here, or do the walls just relocate? Q7. Fleet management and rebuilding a box from scratch. I raised it and we moved on. I run my own plugin site partly as disaster recovery, and we put import and export into Atmos as a piece of it. The Omarchy crew will probably beat me to the full answer, but right now there is not one. Q8. What happens to a community plugin when it goes into core? OmaStorm is going into the next version of Omarchy, the first time that has happened to somebody in this room. What changes for the maintainer, for the people sending PRs, and for the people who forked it? We did not ask @ncfrontiersman directly and we should have. Q9. Who does the federal hardening work with @MuchmoreIT? A NIST tested crypto validation suite is the better part of a year for one busy person. Omarchy Fort Knox is a real opportunity and right now it is one guy with a day job at the end of fiscal season. ASKS ON THE TABLE @m_tolhuijs wants people to try OmarKit and reach out. He is building it as we speak, aimed squarely at the submission pain. @cfaulkingham wants collaborators on the local fine tune. He has a LoRA adapter, a model that runs on modest hardware, and a clear view of why it is hard. @ncfrontiersman wants to see a proper plugin dev loop with hot reload, and offered to contribute his version to OmarKit. @hancore_linux wants patience while the new marketplace gets built, and recommends OmarKit and the security skill in the meantime. @MuchmoreIT is building toward federal ready Omarchy and would welcome anyone who knows that world. @thetundeo's London meetup is Thursday. If you are anywhere near, go. Everybody: follow everybody in this room. Ratios are nonsense. Send DMs. Make the connections. NEXT EPISODE Same time next Sunday, 3pm EST. Same format: come tell us what you are building and where you are stuck. If you have never built a plugin, here is your homework, and it is smaller than you think. Clone a built in plugin with your agent and change one thing about it. One. Mine was a percentage bar on a calendar and it changed how I think about computers. Do not just accept things as they are. If you can think of it, build it. And when you see somebody struggling in the comments, help them. Get their dictation working and they are off to the races. Thanks to @ncfrontiersman for co-hosting, to @hancore_linux for the marketplace and for dropping in, and to everybody who spoke. As @ncfrontiersman closed it: everybody's a special guest. See you next Sunday. ## Transcript Machine generated. Speaker labels come from the transcription tool and are reused for different people; the summary says who is who. @ncfrontiersman: All right, happy Sunday, everybody. We're going to get started here in just a minute. I'll give people about 5 more minutes to trickle in. @ncfrontiersman: We had about 62 people RSVP, so we've just got, what, 6 or 7 in right now? @nixfred: Those are the best ones, but... @ncfrontiersman: Go ahead and come in. @nixfred: Those are the best ones to get here early. @ncfrontiersman: Yeah. They get the jam to the grooves while we're waiting. @nixfred: What's the weather like out there, Wes? @ncfrontiersman: Today it's muggy, a little cloudy, but I saw where it's going to be like fall next week coming up, so... @nixfred: Wes, I handed you a softball draw. @ncfrontiersman: I could talk about weather for hours. @nixfred: We'll talk about it. I can't wait. @ncfrontiersman: All right. Yeah, so what about you, Fred? How's the weather doing over... @nixfred: It's hot, man. @ncfrontiersman: ... in your neck of the woods? @nixfred: I'm in Atlanta near Chastain Park, if you know that area, and it's hot. The dog wants to go out, and I'm not doing it in 90-degree weather. @ncfrontiersman: Yeah. @nixfred: Actually, it's 85, and I know that because I have a Marshy Weather run. @ncfrontiersman: There you go. There you go. Yeah, yeah, that 85 don't tell you the full story. @ncfrontiersman: You need to know the dew point because that's what makes it, you know. If it's 85 and it's, you know, low dew point, low humidity, it's not too bad, but when it creeps up... @nixfred: Exciting stuff, right, folks? @nixfred: This is going to be great. I'm excited. @ncfrontiersman: Yeah, I am too. I think it's going to be really good. Second time doing it. @ncfrontiersman: And we're going to be talking a little bit... last week was kind of a free-for-all, and it was fun, but this time we're going to kind of stay a little more focused and talk about what a plugin is, how you can get started, how you can build and iterate on it. And at the end, we'll give folks time to answer, you know, to ask some questions and discuss a little bit, so. @ncfrontiersman: All right. @nixfred: Hey, while we're getting started, those of us that are here on time and early, go ahead and follow everybody. That only makes the community stronger. You know, Twitter and X used to have this bullshit about, you know, your ratios of follows, the how much... throw that crap out. @nixfred: This is a new paradigm. If somebody's following you and it has a Marchi in their title, follow them back. @nixfred: Like, there's no ego here. The follower count, who gives a crap? @ncfrontiersman: Yeah, yeah. @nixfred: And I see all the hearts out there, so follow your brothers and sisters out there. Make connections. Send DMs. @nixfred: Let's change the way this thing interacts. @ncfrontiersman: 100%. Totally agree, Fred. @nixfred: Yep. Also, you know, and as we're doing housekeeping, you know, Wes, I just want to talk a little bit about the same rules as last week. You know, no politics here. @nixfred: We may talk a little bit about the controversy going on, and I think that's within the boundaries of no politics. But no egos. @nixfred: You know, as I said, follow everybody back in the room. We're small, and we all have the same likes, so follow everybody back. @nixfred: And I'll shut up, Wes. Take it. @ncfrontiersman: No, yeah, yeah. Exactly. Yeah. @ncfrontiersman: Keep it positive. Let's talk about all the good going. @ncfrontiersman: There's plenty of negative noise, right? And so it's like, I don't want this to be another avenue of negativity, you know? @ncfrontiersman: I mean, there's plenty of other avenues for that. @nixfred: All right. And also, if you guys don't mind, if you could just tweet out that you're listening, and let's see if we can build this thing up. And I can't wait to hear from you right now. @nixfred: And yes, I'm speaking to you right now. I can't wait to hear your story. @ncfrontiersman: All right. Well, I guess, you know, we're coming up on 5 minutes here. We can probably go ahead and get started. @ncfrontiersman: Fred, do you want to introduce yourself? @nixfred: You bet. You bet. I'm Fred Nix on X. @nixfred: See what I did there? Happy co-host with Wes here. @nixfred: Wes is the guy that built Omastorm, which if you watch the DHH interview this week, you're going to find out that it's headed to the next version of Marchi itself. And Wes, we're going to get to that. @nixfred: I know you're a humble guy, and you don't want to bring it up, but we're going to talk about it. Last week, we had about 50 folks, and we're hoping to build it up again. @nixfred: We already talked about the house rules, no politics. And just a quick weekend and review. @nixfred: Marchi, we shipped our own kernel. DHH said Quatro passed 300,000 downloads in the month. @nixfred: The marketplace added 63 plugins in one day. The Mac fork got Touch ID working on Silicon. @nixfred: Now, Wes, I know that's near and dear to your heart. Startup meetings are the meetups this week. @nixfred: We're in London, England, Toronto, Copenhagen, and Atlanta. So let's get started, Wes. @nixfred: Back over to you. @ncfrontiersman: Yeah, wow. Yeah, it's been quite a week, for sure. Yeah, I'm Wes Grimes, North NC Frontiersman on Twitter, or X, as it is these days. @ncfrontiersman: And yeah, I'm kind of new to the Omarchy community. I've been a software developer for about 25 years. @ncfrontiersman: Got a little bored in the career, but man, Omarchy has just injected my veins with adrenaline. You know, it's just so much fun. @ncfrontiersman: And the community has been great. Yeah, so today we're going to talk about demystifying plugins. @ncfrontiersman: What is a plugin, you know, and all that. So I'm going to hand it over to Fred so he can kind of walk us through that, and then we'll kind of dive into, you know, how you get started, like building your first plugin. @nixfred: Yeah, and I see a lot of the folks out there are experts and probably know more about the plugin stuff than I do. So, you know, chime in if you got a better explanation than I do. Plugin is a change a little bit from how software runs. @nixfred: I know Marchi kind of shifted away from applications to customizing your own bar. And I've made a handful of them, and they've had some success. @nixfred: And I look out there and could name names, Tech Lite being one of them, that's really helped me move forward. And I don't claim to be a programmer. @nixfred: If you were here last week, we talked about the advantage that we believe that AI agents bring to infrastructure folks more so than programmers. If I were to be a 2X infrastructure guy, you know, I do okay at it, so 2Xing it really doesn't help me. @nixfred: But giving me the ability to just think of an idea and make it, you know, come to life in... oh, shit. Oh, sorry, my laptop blanked out. @nixfred: I thought I was going. So the agents give me the ability, if I can think of it, you know, I can make it happen. @nixfred: And I see so many times in the plugins that I release, I get folks that say, that comment below, "Can you make it do something very simple," whatever that is. And this isn't me judging them at all, but they'll say, "Can you do something very simple?" @nixfred: And I want to encourage them, like, I don't want to sound like a jerk, but kind of do it yourself a little bit. Like, there's a mindset of the past computers where we were kind of locked in, and you kind of got what you got. @nixfred: You didn't, you know, my grandmother used to say, "You get what you get, you don't pitch a fit." And for decades, we've been in this paradigm where you kind of got the software that you got because the binaries were locked down. @nixfred: And it's taken time for people to understand that. I think the newcomers to Omarchy, you're still in that mindset of downloading applications. @nixfred: Somebody made it, and I can use it. And boy, I wish it did this, but it doesn't. @nixfred: And they haven't shifted that mental model to, "I can just do it myself." So that's where the plugins for me are a big deal because my mind has switched to, "I can't do that," to, you know, anything I can dream of. @nixfred: Now, am I a kernel guy? I mean, I could poke around in a kernel, but I don't even understand it well enough to tell it what I think I need the kernel to do at a higher... I can do it at a higher level. @nixfred: But the kernel folks that get down into the details, you know, the key is to have the agent drive your idea and not limit you to a certain programming language or, you know, I always ask it, you know, "Code it in the best thing you think is possible, be it Python or Rust or whatever it is." @ncfrontiersman: Right. @nixfred: So the main thing, and then I'm going to hand it back over to you, Wes, is the main thing is don't just accept things as they are, right? If you can think about something that you want or need, do it, man. Just do it. @nixfred: And help somebody else to understand that too. Whenever you're in the comments, you see people, you know, saying things, "I can't see all of X," and none of us can. @nixfred: But if you're seeing people struggle, like, tell them, just talk to it. Help them get dictation working, and then they're off to the races. @nixfred: What do you think, Wes? @ncfrontiersman: Yeah, no, I think that's right. I love it. I mean, you know, when we first got around to computers, a lot of people had a fear, like, "I'm scared to touch it. @ncfrontiersman: I'm scared to break it," and all that kind of... I'm one of the people that never had that fear, but I knew a lot of people around me did. And I think even more so today, with, you know, agents and Omarchy and the way it's a malleable operating system, it's even less of a concern. @ncfrontiersman: Like, please break it, please touch it, please mess with it. You know, have fun with it. @ncfrontiersman: Create, you know, if it's an idea you've got and you have that agent, you can go at it. And so, like, how do you get started? @ncfrontiersman: Like, I think honestly, like, maybe the first level of, you know, customization is like just the OS and configuring. Yeah, hey, I want to have rounded corners in my windows, but that's pretty cool. @ncfrontiersman: You can do that with Omarchy. But like, you can actually start to build what you want to see. @ncfrontiersman: And so for me, for an example, like I started out, I liked the Omarchy Weather plugin, but I wanted to see like the sunset and the sunrise and the moon phase. So I opened up my agent, and I think at the time it was Codex, and I was like, "Hey, what can we do here to add those?" @ncfrontiersman: And so the cool thing is kind of built in is this idea of cloning a plugin. And so you can tell your agent, it reads in the Omarchy skill. @ncfrontiersman: It's like, "Okay, I'm going to clone this Omarchy built-in plugin." It makes a copy of it into your config that's your own that you can edit and change, right? @ncfrontiersman: And because it's not compiled, like, as your agent's making the changes, you're making it, you can kind of see it reload right before your eyes. It's almost like building a web page. @nixfred: It is. It is. @ncfrontiersman: Yeah. And so, you know, it's like, you say, "Hey," you know, you start kind of thinking about it. Where is this information I want to show available? @ncfrontiersman: Is it being fetched already? And in this case, it was using weather.in and also OpenMateo. @ncfrontiersman: And those services already provided the sunrise, sunset info. And it was really as simple as just saying, "Hey, can you also grab that information from the same call and show it on the screen?" @ncfrontiersman: And I'd like to see it as a row below the forecast row. You know, show me a little icon for the sunset and the sunrise and the moon phase. @ncfrontiersman: And this is all I'm doing. I'm just talking in natural language, explaining it, you know? @ncfrontiersman: And then, and before, and you kind of, it's like this, it's like, I don't know if y'all used to play, you know, like SimCity or something. It's like you're building this thing over time. @ncfrontiersman: You're iterating over it, making it yours, and it becomes a lot of fun. And you get to a point, and it's like, "All right, I love this plugin. @ncfrontiersman: I've used it for myself. Maybe I want to share this with other people." @ncfrontiersman: And so that's something we can talk about in a minute. But, you know, always the start is like, you don't have to build it from scratch. @ncfrontiersman: You know, that always is hard when you're having to figure out, "Oh, I don't know the shape of a plugin. I don't know what right files I need to have." @ncfrontiersman: So like, if there's a plugin that's sort of doing what you want, you can have the agent clone it, and you can start tweaking it to your liking. And then, you know, it's kind of all up from there. @ncfrontiersman: Yeah, so Fred, what about you, man? Or anything you want to ask me first? @nixfred: Yeah, so, well, I want to add on a little bit what you said about the forking. So, you know, there's no perfect or there's no completely unique ideas out there. And I like to be careful. @nixfred: A lot of folks, I look at plugins and I think, "Well," and I'll start using it. And like the Trackpad one, for example, which was made by a guy named Fanta, I believe. @nixfred: I think it's David, and I should know it better than that. I apologize if you're wrong. @nixfred: So the license and the way that open source works is that it's 100% legal and okay to go take that fork and make it your own. And once you do that, it's, you know, kind of a good thing to send back a PR if your agent kind of finds bugs. @nixfred: And so let me transition to one thing real fast is that I found Wes' plug before I became friends with him and before I followed him and before I, you know, before we started talking. And the first thing I did was I did fork it. @nixfred: And Wes, I think I actually emailed or DM'd you and said, "Do you mind if I fork this?" You know, out of politeness. @ncfrontiersman: Yeah, yeah. @nixfred: And he said, "Certainly." But, you know, Wes has come a long ways with his Omastorm. And this week, DHH called him out specifically on a podcast with ZeroXSero. @nixfred: I'm not exactly sure how to say that, but his at is @zeroxsero. Very intelligent young man. @nixfred: And I just want to play a little clip. Let me know immediately if you can hear it okay about DHH in the interview talking about Wes' plugin. @nixfred: Here we go. Track two. @ZryMiller: Guys, a tweet I just saw this morning. He's been working on this thing called Omastorm. So it tracks storms going over your area. @ZryMiller: And he put it into the weather widget that we have in Omarchy. It looks incredible. @ZryMiller: We're going to ship it in the next version. But here's a guy who just went like, "Well, I like storms. @ZryMiller: I want to see the storms. I want to see this lightning. @ZryMiller: I want to see where it's moving." He would not have done that before. @ZryMiller: We have, actually, this is outdated now. A week ago, it was 3,000 plugins created for Omarchy in three weeks. @ZryMiller: Once you've lived that, working with other people and trying to coordinate. @nixfred: Oh, you're not hearing it? @ncfrontiersman: No. @nixfred: Oh, all right. Well, I'll do better next time. @ncfrontiersman: That's okay. @nixfred: And I'll reload. Sorry about that, everybody. @ncfrontiersman: That's all good. @nixfred: I'll post it in the chat. @ncfrontiersman: Yeah, yeah, y'all can watch it. We'll figure out how to do that next time. But it was cool. @ncfrontiersman: Somebody shared it first with me and was like, "Hey, did you, maybe it was Tundy that did." I can't remember, but. @nixfred: Tundy, my man. @ncfrontiersman: Yeah. @nixfred: He's already started a, I believe he's doing the London meetup and doing amazing, like doing, it's blowing up. So good on you, Tundy. @ncfrontiersman: Yeah, yeah. And I think what DHH was really just saying is like, it's a cool platform. And if you have a good idea and something that you love personally, get out there and make it, you know, and share it. @ncfrontiersman: And that's really kind of the point there. So. @nixfred: Fantastic. @ncfrontiersman: Yeah, it was a neat little surprise to wake up to. But it ain't about me. I mean, I would love to see everybody on this call, you know, have that opportunity. @ncfrontiersman: So I think it's just a lot of fun when your work is shared and people find value in it. And this is like the barrier to entry here is so much lower than it used to be. @nixfred: Oh, man. Oh, man. Hey, Wes, you mind if we kind of switch topics a little bit? @ncfrontiersman: Sure. @nixfred: So I want to talk about the elephant in the room this week. And that is all of the Arch Linux crowd that's very angry about their own walled garden of sorts coming down. And Linux has been tough to use for quite a long time. @nixfred: And for some people, it kind of became their identity. Running Arch, ironically, was kind of a badge of honor because it meant you were willing to learn the hard stuff and break stuff. @nixfred: But Omarchy really changed that equation. And the barrier to entry is lowering. @nixfred: And whether you already know Linux well enough to survive Arch install, the barrier isn't any longer your technology ability, but it's really become curiosity, persistence, and the desire to just freaking do it. So that opens the door to a completely different set of group. @nixfred: And some of those Arch Linux guys that are hating on Omarchy, some of that pushback comes from the feeling that something that they would belong to a small club is becoming really accessible to everyone. And from their perspective, it's kind of a loss. @nixfred: And people tend to react to loss in one of two ways. They adapt and move forward, or they find a reason to rebuild those walls around a smaller group. @nixfred: And I think you can see a little bit of both of that happening because some of those guys see Omarchy and think, "Awesome, more people are coming to Linux." But then others are creating a new badge of honor around not needing Omarchy. @nixfred: And the club becomes smaller again. And now the cool kids are the ones who know better, that run something harder, that configure everything themselves, or can tell you all the reasons that Omarchy is crap and doing it all wrong. @nixfred: And so we're talking about the same wall again, but a different garden. But there's a much more interesting move available to those people. @nixfred: If Omarchy made that layer of Linux that was difficult dramatically easier, then those smart people should go push and find the next hardest layer. Maybe push into the kernel, maybe solve power management, prove Wayland. @nixfred: Let's make gaming better. And if being difficult was part of their identity, great. @nixfred: It's almost like an endless supply of difficult things to fix. So Omarchy didn't take away the frontier. @nixfred: It just moved it forward. So what are your thoughts on that, Wes? @ncfrontiersman: Yeah, no, I 100% agree. I think, number one, I bet if we got a chance to chat with them and show them, they might actually change their minds. Because a lot of times people just kind of read scanned headlines and, you know, they jump into their sides or whatever. @ncfrontiersman: And they miss the nuance. But I would love to see every single one of those Arch people, you know, come on in and, you know, let's just make a big tent, right? @ncfrontiersman: Let's see what we can do to, because there are so many hard challenges yet to be solved. And we need people that have built up that scar tissue. @ncfrontiersman: They've built up those muscles of sticking out a problem that's really hard until it's solved. And I think that those skills apply even more now than ever. @ncfrontiersman: You know, even though AI can generate the code, that doesn't mean it's doing everything. You should never outsource your thinking to it, right? @ncfrontiersman: Like, it's just a, it's just kind of a levels the playing field in some ways, but again, you still need to have that agency. And so I would love to see those folks, you know, come over. @ncfrontiersman: And if not, that's cool too, whatever, you know? @nixfred: Yeah, you can lead a horse to water kind of thing. But at the end, as DHH says over and over, we are going to win. And we're going to beat, you know, trillion-dollar companies. @nixfred: And, you know, it's just amazing that all of these things have kind of come together. Any one of them alone, you know, AI by itself wasn't doing it. @nixfred: Omarchy before AI wasn't doing it. @ncfrontiersman: Yeah. @nixfred: But, you know, the quality of people that I've met, some of the people that I know that I've known for 20 years that are on this chat right now, you know, it's just amazing. Wes, what's next on our agenda, man? @ncfrontiersman: Yeah, well, before we hop into building the interview, I wanted to hear a little bit about your first plugin and how that went. @nixfred: All right. So that's a really good point. And, you know, earlier I was saying that you want to talk about, talk to people in the comments about, you know, all you got to do is just think it and dream it. @nixfred: And I was just thinking, when I first installed Omarchy, not to be an asshole, but I'm pretty good at the AI stuff, you know, more than if I go to Publix and go to the grocery store. Likely, I'm probably the best AI guy in the grocery store. @nixfred: I'm not egotistical, but there are many people on this chat right now that I know by name that are better than me. However, I'm okay at it. @nixfred: So when I first got Omarchy and I thought, "Okay, I can make changes," even I, as an AI understander, still wasn't thinking big enough. So the jump for somebody that's doing both, that they're learning Omarchy and learning AI is a big wall. @nixfred: Because to your question, what was my first plugin? My very first thing, and you're going to laugh at me, was I took the calendar date, the one that at the very center that we all have, and I added a graph bar that told me what percentage of the year we are through. @nixfred: And that was it. @ncfrontiersman: Nice. @nixfred: So just for your knowledge, we are 71.94% through the year. @ncfrontiersman: Goodness. @nixfred: And I thought, "Wow, that's crazy." And even that blew me away. But the crazy thing is, is that once you understand that anything's possible, from there, my next plugin was bigger. @nixfred: And from there, my next plugin was bigger. @ncfrontiersman: Yeah. @nixfred: And from there, you know, Infomarchy started out as an idea just for me, and it was crap. And then some 15 people have started contributing and finding stuff, again, that I had no idea about. And getting pretty technical in the weeds, like Tech Luddite sent over some stuff that I read. @nixfred: And I'm like, "I don't know what the hell he's talking about, but he's smart." So, you know, and don't take that as I'm an, I guess I am an idiot for just accepting it. @nixfred: But, you know, there's things that are out of my grasp that are still out of my grasp. And I rely on the people that I know and love and getting the love to help me. @nixfred: So my first plugin was not even a plugin. It was just to edit the calendar that's at the top of your bar that shows the date to say what percentage of the year we're through. @nixfred: And we're through 71.95% of the year. And the tweak that I did was I told it to do two decimal points. @nixfred: And I was like, "Wow, it did it." @ncfrontiersman: So take a step back. So you've installed Omarchy. You wanted to add, you came up with the idea. @ncfrontiersman: What did you do? Open up terminal, pull up what agent did you use? @ncfrontiersman: And did you say, "Hey, clone this plugin?" Or how did that? @nixfred: I've kind of, before Omarchy, you know, and I would look to build things, I built a bunch of stuff. And a lot of my stuff is infrastructure. And you can go to nixfred.com and see all the crap that I've built. @nixfred: And so that was where my focus was. But I didn't really have an operating system. @nixfred: And I was doing it for a Mac. So I was kind of held behind, you know, the Mac, you know, there's a lot of talk about agents really aren't that good on a Mac. @nixfred: And they're kind of not. So when Omarchy came out, I kind of, it took me a couple of days to kind of understand what it was. @nixfred: And I was doing things for my own benefit and things that I liked. And then, you know, Atmos came out by a good friend of mine. @nixfred: And I was able to submit some PRs to that. And then I just started helping other people with their things. @nixfred: And I've been accused of having a little bit of an eye for visualizations. And what I found is that if I like it, somebody else does. @nixfred: And I think the second thing I did was tell it to, and don't hate me for this, but make it look more like a Mac and make the Alt Tab more like a Mac. And then pretty early in, I said, "If you can just show me what's on my iPhone for iMessages, just like if I could just see it, that'd be really cool." @nixfred: And I was very happy that I was able to see it. And then it grew from there. @nixfred: And so BurnBar, which I just released 2.0 out, if you want to check it out, it's a big, big improvement in my opinion. But all my stuff is for me. @nixfred: If I need it, I build it. And I hope that when I put it out, that other people need it as well. @nixfred: And it turns out that occasionally it resonates. @ncfrontiersman: Yeah, yeah, totally. Totally. Yeah, because I mean, it just seems to go better if you end up taking something you've built for yourself that you love, that you take time and care in building, then trying to figure out, "I wonder what plugin would go viral." @ncfrontiersman: Or, "I wonder what plugin everybody could use." Like, just focus on what you know. @ncfrontiersman: And then I guarantee there's going to be other people out there that like the same stuff and would benefit from you sharing, you know, what you're doing. So. @nixfred: Exactly. And DHH talks a lot about how we've got to get capitalism involved and how the old Linux guard was anti-capitalism. And then they were surprised that nobody would give them money because they were directly a threat to what, you know, Linux was doing. @nixfred: Why would you give money to people that, you know, their webpage says down with capitalism? So what happened, you know, what DHH says is build what you think is good for you. @nixfred: And, you know, the things that matter to you probably matter to somebody else. @ncfrontiersman: Yeah, yeah, for sure. All right, so let's fast forward. So talking about this idea of we've come up with an idea, we've made a plugin, now we want to share it. @nixfred: Sure. @ncfrontiersman: Now we want to get it, you know, we want to get it out there for other people to try. Like, to start with, you don't have to get it published in the plugin directory. That's a great place for people to discover and find it. @ncfrontiersman: Like, it's not one of those things like with Apple, right? Or, you know, other operating systems where you have to have it in the store and get approved. @ncfrontiersman: Like, anybody can take the command, Omarchy plugin command, point it at a GitHub URL and install it, which is pretty cool. @nixfred: Yeah, and so what I used to do was, you know, I don't know, I'm sure raise your hand or clap or whatever. If you kind of, before Omarchy, we're running out of things to build on AI. And that kind of sounds crazy. @nixfred: And, you know, we're just looking for that next dopamine hit. You know, AI kind of has replaced the doom scrolling for the folks that get onto it. @nixfred: So it became a thing for me to fork things and then make it my own. @nixfred: And so I kind of had that natural thought process. And so it really, all the things it feels like in the past year and a half with Claude code and seeing it from before it was publicly released all the way to where it is now at 2.1.200 and something, I think it is, you know, we've come a long ways. @nixfred: And the tools are getting better. And so, you know, I certainly encourage people to fork things. @nixfred: There's probably 30 forks that I've made that there's no reason to publish because it's just for me. I am a good citizen. @nixfred: And I send back a PR if I think it might help the overall project. But, you know, forking things is a great way to do it. @nixfred: And you're talking about how do you get it out there? There's really five different things you can do. @nixfred: Number one is you just keep it to yourself. And that's fine if it works for you. @nixfred: Number two is you can go to X and you can, you know, start publishing out there and code out in the open and let other people see it. The third thing you can do is you can build your own website and kind of host your own plugin library. @nixfred: And I've done that. But really, that was at Omarchy.nixfred.com. @nixfred: The only reason that I did that was really to, as a disaster recovery for me and just kind of a one place I can go to install things for a new box. And I'm also working on a way to, I think the Omarchy crew is going to beat me to it. @nixfred: But there's some things in the way of fleet management and being able to recreate boxes on the fly. We added a piece of that import-export to Atmos, if you've seen that. @nixfred: But so we got keep it to yourself. We got show it on X. @nixfred: We've got make your own website that publishes your own plugins. The fourth one being, you know, advertise it and submit it to the official plugin site by hackers. @nixfred: And, you know, he does an amazing job. And the fifth thing is, and I don't know if this is even popular, put it on Facebook or whatever. @nixfred: But for those of you, if you're looking for me on Facebook, you're not going to find anything. I went to Facebook headquarters and sold them some storage way back in the day. @nixfred: And they pulled me aside and said, "What's your user account here?" And I told them. @nixfred: And they told me and showed me all the things that they know about me. And I deleted it that afternoon. @ncfrontiersman: Ooh, yeah. Yeah, that's always scary. Yeah, so yeah, so you don't have to share it if you don't want to. @ncfrontiersman: You can share it on X. Like, you don't have to publish it to the plugin directory. @ncfrontiersman: But like, let's say you come up with a cool idea and you do want to share it. Like, the idea is there's really good docs, right? @ncfrontiersman: Like, you point your agent at the plugin, you know, how to build a plugin, how to publish a plugin, and say, "Hey, step me through doing this the right way." And there's going to be a process where you open an issue up on the plugin repo and you have to fill out a couple of questions. @ncfrontiersman: Well, you don't have to. The agent can do it. @ncfrontiersman: And then there are some things that get validated. So like, for example, for me, with Omastorm, my plugin has the quick shell, like pop over window, but it also has this engine that runs in the background. @ncfrontiersman: And so I submitted it and actually appreciate it. They did the scan and they said, "Well, your engine might accidentally download more files than needed and cause like people's disks to fill up." @ncfrontiersman: And so it was really good feedback. And so I went back and I made that fix. @ncfrontiersman: And then I, you know, you edit the issue. And then they do another scan and come back and say, "All right, yeah, I see you fixed that. @ncfrontiersman: It looks good." And so there's, someone has created a skill, I think, that makes this a little easier. @ncfrontiersman: But if you think about this stuff at the beginning when you're building it and you tell your agent, "Hey, I'm going to be publishing this at some point. Let's keep the requirements in mind," you know, as we do it, then it's a lot easier before you build a bunch of things that will never get accepted. @ncfrontiersman: So, and again, you don't have to publish it to that directory if you don't want to. But I think it's worth it. @ncfrontiersman: It's not a lot of effort to get it done. @nixfred: And the other thing is, is that, you know, you can go ahead. @nixfred: My son's calling me and family comes first. @ncfrontiersman: Okay, yeah, yeah. So, but yeah, I mean, yeah, the idea of pushing out there. And so, and if some of y'all are new to building software, once you start building something and sharing it, you kind of got to think about it like you've got customers in a way. @ncfrontiersman: And think about them. Think about, you know, like my time in tech support and being on the front lines for years and hearing all the issues kind of gave me that empathy for people using the software that I was involved in. @ncfrontiersman: And so you do need to kind of think about, "Hey, I've, like with Omastorm, I've built something. It's working a certain way. @ncfrontiersman: And people are liking it." I would hate to then all of a sudden rip a feature out from under them or completely change the way the config works and then everybody's config breaks. @ncfrontiersman: So you kind of got to keep those things in mind too as you move forward. But you don't have to, you know, go crazy. @ncfrontiersman: And I would say start with something small that you personally have found use out of. Because an agent can write the code, but it is not going to know your intention for what you're building. @ncfrontiersman: And it's not going to do as good a job of truly exercising it in the real way that it would be used. And so there's a lot of value in just building it, you know, running it, clicking it, going all over crazy with it, trying to break it. @ncfrontiersman: Like that kind of stuff, it really adds a lot of value to a polished product. And thinking about, "Hey, I might be building this on personally, like an Omarchy Mac install, but somebody else might be on a, you know, an x86 base machine. @ncfrontiersman: It should work in both." Because like with Omastorm, when I first built it, I actually was, I didn't have an Omarchy on a laptop. @ncfrontiersman: I had it on a VM that was on an x86. And so the Rust binary that was built was just x86. @ncfrontiersman: And I had people say, "Hey, I can't install this on, you know, the Arch one, what, you know, the Arm64, you know, but I did have my agent build it and it worked." And I'm like, "Oh, that's cool." @ncfrontiersman: And then so took that information in and now I'm producing, you know, an x86 and the Arm64. So these are the kind of things you just got to kind of think about as you're building it out. @ncfrontiersman: But yeah, are you back? @nixfred: Yeah, I'm back. And one thing that, you know, as tokens get more expensive, and, you know, I don't mean that $200 is going up. I mean, you know, less and less. @nixfred: Inflation, I suppose, applied somehow. One thing that I've been burned a couple of times and really ended up wasting tokens and maybe some time is I'll build, start building something and then, and I'll tell my agent, "Go look and see if somebody, you know, wait a minute. @nixfred: Go look and see if somebody else has already done this better." And it comes back and says, "15 people have tried this and there's 17 that are better than you." @nixfred: And so I'm like, "Damn it, I wasted tokens. I wasted time." @nixfred: So, you know, wrap that back to the fork conversation. Fork it down, find the best one, fork it down and customize it to your own needs. @ncfrontiersman: Yeah, yeah. In engineering and software, we'd call it like prior art. @nixfred: Yeah, yeah. @ncfrontiersman: You know, and so before agents and all, you know, you'd be coming up with a solution. And the first thing you do is you go figure out, has anybody done anything similar? You know, can I take the learnings that they, you know, had from it and apply that here? @ncfrontiersman: So that's always a good first step for sure. @ZryMiller: Yeah, and AI agents will gaslight you into making you think that your idea is the most unique idea out there. And then I've pushed back and been like, "Okay, hey, let's just see if anyone else has had this idea." And then like you said, Fred, it's like, "Oh, yep, there's 30 other applications that already do this and it's better than the process that I showed you." @ZryMiller: So I think the thing I'm struggling with is I have an application I'm planning to launch on Windows, but like I keep messing around with it and finding bugs. And I don't know when the right time to actually, you know, launch it actually is to like have people, you know, like I'm, I figured my thought would be is when I'm using it every day then and not running into constant bugs, that's when I launch it. @ZryMiller: But I don't know if I'll ever reach that point, you know? So I don't know if you guys can talk to about that. @nixfred: Yeah, I mean, yeah, I mean, I would say number one, try to keep the feature set as small as possible to begin with. Don't be, you know, don't build, you know, all 15 features of what it is. And then you're, then it's like playing whack-a-mole. @nixfred: You fix one, the other one breaks, right? @ZryMiller: Yeah, now I'm way too deep in the features now. @nixfred: I hear you. It's just like talking to a human employee. If you spend three minutes with them and tell them what you want, you're going to get three minutes of instruction results. @nixfred: If you spend, you know, a day with that employee and really teach them what you want, you get better results. It's no different. @nixfred: I treat Larry like he's literally, I mean, I start to kind of apply human attributes to him. And I've kind of encouraged him to, you know, push back on me and be snarky. @ncfrontiersman: Larry's your AI assistant? @nixfred: Yeah, Larry's. And there's a lot about how I built Larry at how.nixfred.com. And Wes, tell me if you're sick of the self. @ncfrontiersman: You get one more and then. @nixfred: I don't care if nobody goes to it, but if it'll help somebody, then good for them. @ncfrontiersman: Yeah, no, it's all good, man. Cool. Yeah, so Zach, what's the name of your plugin? @ZryMiller: Oh, so right, basically I have it on Windows right now. I don't, it's called Soto. So it's a voice transcription and it's not a harness. @ZryMiller: It's like an agent management. So you can manage threads or have multiple terminals open to work with agents in. @ZryMiller: And it's just a nicer UI. @ncfrontiersman: Okay. @ZryMiller: So if anyone's familiar with T3 Code, it'd be similar to that. And I've built a lot of features similar to what T3 Code has, but I also have built-in transcription, which I've, that I've used a lot. So similar to Whisper Flow, but my plan is to port it over to Omarchy because right now it's an Electron shell, but I want to build it more native in a more native language to Omarchy so that it, I don't know, I see Omarchy developers as being preferring things that @ZryMiller: are customizable. So I want the app to feel that way. So that's kind of what I'm planning to do next, but I'm just trying to get the Windows version up to my standard. @ZryMiller: Then I'll release that and then start working on the Omarchy version. @nixfred: That's awesome, bro. @ncfrontiersman: Well, I think that kind of leads us in to open it up to some Q&A. So we're going to do, we got to keep it, we got a lot of people here. So we got to keep it to two minutes if we can per person. @ncfrontiersman: If you got a question or you just want to talk a little bit about what you're building, that's fine. Just raise your hand and then I will make you or Fred will make you a speaker. @ncfrontiersman: And then, yeah, we'll kind of try to get through the room. So who would like to go first or second? @nixfred: Follow everybody, follow everybody. And I'll stick around after it's over to chat if anybody wants to chat, but Wes, you pick, man. @ncfrontiersman: All right, looks like David is up. Let me approve David here. @ncfrontiersman: Let's see, did that work? @ncfrontiersman: David, I just accepted. Very good. @ncfrontiersman: So what's up, David? What's going on? @nixfred: Unmute. @ncfrontiersman: Let's see. @nixfred: Let's see if we can unmute him. I don't think I can. @ncfrontiersman: All right, I might have to come back to you, David. Let's see. @nixfred: Yeah, who's next? @ncfrontiersman: Anybody else? @nixfred: If you want to speak, raise your hand and. @NoPowerPoints: Sorry about that. Can you hear me now? @ncfrontiersman: Oh, there we go. @nixfred: Awesome, David. Welcome. @NoPowerPoints: I'm so sorry, guys. I apologize. So I've been following them. @NoPowerPoints: I was using Omarchy probably right before Quattro, maybe about four or five months. Quattro kind of like just opened up the door with the harnesses coming and the skills to take a look at, you know, doing some things. @NoPowerPoints: So written a couple of plugins, got them published. One of them's called HyperTile Equalizer. @NoPowerPoints: The other one's called GitHub Repo Tracker. And there's a few of those out there. @NoPowerPoints: So it's kind of like one of those things where you build something and then somebody else is already working on it. And you're like, "Oh, man, you know, I wish I'd known about that." @NoPowerPoints: But I got the experience, which is cool. Question I have for you on the Omarchy plugin development stuff. @NoPowerPoints: I mean, I've gone through it a couple of times. Works really well. @NoPowerPoints: It takes a while to get through the approval process because the agents, you know, kind of go do their thing. And then it might take a little bit of time to get a notification that you got a security issue or something like that needs to be fixed. @NoPowerPoints: I'm all cool with that. I mean, it's cool, but I really like to know like what is the shortcut to like pre-qualify or validate my own code before I submit it. @ncfrontiersman: Wonderful question. And what I've done is I've had my agent go, because that, most of that information is like in the source code for the Omarchy plugin directory. And it's like, "Hey, go figure out the checks it's going to run ahead of time, right?" @ncfrontiersman: And then look at what I have here and tell me where there's going to be issues. So yeah, I think there could be an opportunity here and people on here that are involved with the Omarchy team and stuff, y'all can correct me, but I think having an official skill or something that we could pull in and use, like before we even get started building the plugin or even after, it's like, how can we get to automatic, you know, almost automatic approval here or at least, you know, @ncfrontiersman: cut that friction down? Because I do agree. It's kind of like, you know, if you haven't gone through it, it's like, man, I wish I would have known that ahead of time or whatever. @ncfrontiersman: So there is some things you can do though, right, to have it go and pull that repo down and look at it. You say, "Hey, scan over the prior issues, you know, that have had security audits. @ncfrontiersman: What kind of things did they fail on?" You know, are we going to hit those issues? @NoPowerPoints: The one thing that is also just a little, I mean, like the first one was always painful, right? The second one was easier. On the second one, I think one of the tricks, I don't know if it worked or not, it felt like it did, was to say, "Okay, here's the plugin developers guide. @NoPowerPoints: Here's the, you know, I grabbed anything I could from a link standpoint to just that was relevant. It was just a couple, but it was like, okay. @NoPowerPoints: Relative to the context, let's make sure we're following the developer guideline and the submission guidelines and let AI just try to, you know, reassess it on its own. That seemed to work pretty well. @NoPowerPoints: The one thing that is a little bit of a gotcha is like sometimes the agent will, like you've got to, you do your initial submission and it's like super sweet to just have it go do it. It's a little scary to be quite honest because it's like using a credential and stuff, but it does a good job of doing that first submission. @NoPowerPoints: But then when there is a feedback that comes, you know, from hand course like, you know, automated, whatever, then you're like, "Okay, I got to go fix this." There have been times where it's like the solution is actually to go edit the anchor point in the submission versus just continuing on to say, "Okay, I fixed it and let it go forward." @NoPowerPoints: It's like there's a specific sequence of things that has to occur for submissions versus verifications. Does that make sense? @ncfrontiersman: Yeah, so one of the things that checks is the SHA, right? The unique identifier for the commit, because they want to make sure that the main commit that you have on your main branch matches the one that you had them verify. And so kind of the trigger to have it check again is to edit that issue and update that. @ncfrontiersman: I haven't found any issue if I just tell it to edit the issue and update that. Like it seems to always pick it back up. @NoPowerPoints: Yeah. @NoPowerPoints: No, it's a good, it's one of those things that's kind of a learned thing. And it's also an experience thing. @NoPowerPoints: I'm not as experienced with Git as you guys are. So it's like, "Okay, I'm trying to get my head around the plugin development, the languages, blah, blah, blah, what the AI is doing." @NoPowerPoints: And then also what is the Git and GitHub specific stuff need too. So a good skill for that would be awesome. @NoPowerPoints: If it doesn't exist, it might exist and I'm just not finding it or using it correctly. But it's been a blissful experience by comparison to other things I've done. @NoPowerPoints: So I'm a happy camper and I'm going to let other people bring up their issues and stuff. So thank you very much for the inputs there. @ncfrontiersman: Yeah, thanks, David. Appreciate it, man. All right, let's see. @ncfrontiersman: We got. @nixfred: Let me throw one more thing in on the submitting a plugin and little tips and tricks. So the first thing is don't submit it the first day that you build it. Even if you're happy with it, you're going to find something that you like to make it a little better. @nixfred: So give yourself a week and work on it and sleep on it. I find that I make some of my biggest breakthroughs and ideas when I get the freak off the machine and walk the dog. @nixfred: The second thing is that open your head up to allow PRs and let other people work on it, right? @nixfred: So let other people, let other people join in the fun. And then the last thing I'd say is bring your patience because Handcore has got a lot on his plate and he, you know, he's got a lot on his plate. @nixfred: And so those are the three things that I would say. Martin. @ncfrontiersman: Yep, Martin. @nixfred: We got a new speaker. @m_tolhuijs: Yeah, hi guys. Hear me well? @nixfred: Yes, sir. @m_tolhuijs: Okay, cool, cool, cool. First of all, like awesome to be here and like awesome to see like what Omarchy has unlocked for so many people. This whole conversation that I've been following here like leads up basically to something that I wanted to share here in the group. @m_tolhuijs: Like I built a couple of plugins, I think like. @m_tolhuijs: And like when I was seeing the marketplace and the issue list that. @ncfrontiersman: Go ahead. @m_tolhuijs: Is it bad? @ncfrontiersman: Yep, we're good. @m_tolhuijs: Okay, okay. So I saw the issue list, right? That Handcore is processing right now. @m_tolhuijs: And I felt like, like, wait, this, this, we need to help him here. And you guys already have been talking about like the validation, like the stress that comes along with submitting your plugin and your work towards this whole process. @m_tolhuijs: And this is exactly why I built like a tool called OmarKit, which basically does the whole marketplace pipeline locally on your machine. @m_tolhuijs: So it tests those things that is doing. And it also comes like with some extra tools that I use personally, like because like I saw Handcore's list, but I also know like what AI is doing and like what the stuff is that I always review on. @m_tolhuijs: So something that I wanted to do with OmarKit is like building the same test-driven development that I'm using to, or that I'm used to with. I'm a Larva guy. @m_tolhuijs: So I wanted to have like something that can tell the AI, no, this is not well, this is not good. Yeah. @m_tolhuijs: So also it comes like with a verify command. It comes with like an inspect command. @m_tolhuijs: Right now I'm building a run command and that's actually, I think the naming is a bit wrong because like what I'm actually trying to do here, it's already released, but it's like a kind of an adapter that, first of all, it's like, it's handy for Handcore because Handcore always checks on like, what does your plugin do? Like, does it create a memory leak? @m_tolhuijs: Does it do like all the freaky stuff, right? Like the run is like a kind of block, like an adapter that is attached to your plugin that makes sure that it cannot happen. @m_tolhuijs: Those kind of things, OmarKit does. And like the subtitle before was like, it's a safe place to run your plugin and to test your plugin and to see if it's up for validation or, yeah, for the marketplace. @m_tolhuijs: But right now it's actually, it's doing way more than that. So yeah, check it out if you have these kind of things, like a skill. @m_tolhuijs: I saw like the skills coming up as Markdown files everywhere, but, and they are really, really nice, by the way. There's a lot of work being done there and I think that's really, really amazing. @m_tolhuijs: Yeah, the only thing is like we all know, right, with AI, like skills go so far. Like I had so many countless, so many moments that I said, did you completely ignore what I just said here? @m_tolhuijs: Yeah, I cannot count those ones. But so that's why OmarKit exists. @m_tolhuijs: Check it out. Reach out to me. @m_tolhuijs: I'm building it as we speak and it's really aimed to tackle these kind of problems you have. @ncfrontiersman: Wonderful. @m_tolhuijs: To make you feel more secure and more, yeah, yeah, that you can step up and like, let's bring this up. @ncfrontiersman: I appreciate you building that and sharing. I think that'll be helpful. You know, something I was working on recently is like this idea of running it locally while you're testing it without having to install it fully. @ncfrontiersman: And so, because I'm like, you know, I've done a lot of web dev and the idea of you have hot reloading and stuff where you can run it and see the web page reload while you're making the changes. And so having a way, like what I've done is just a Mees task where it's like Mees dev in it temporarily and like simlinks it to the plugins directory and then installs it and runs it. @ncfrontiersman: And then when you kill the command, it removes it. So having something like that, I think would also be pretty helpful. @ncfrontiersman: So maybe you could look into something like that or I could contribute to it, but. @m_tolhuijs: Yeah, yeah. It's still not a P1, but it works. I saw already some guy from the community testing it out and it worked for him. @m_tolhuijs: So that was good to see. But yeah, it's aimed to do exactly that and like to be like a hard guard for AI. @m_tolhuijs: Like, okay, this is what I'm building right now. Obviously doesn't match the criteria that the marketplace is having. @ncfrontiersman: Wonderful. All right. Well, hey, I'm going to give some time for other folks, but feel free to share in the chat and we'll catch you next time. @ncfrontiersman: Thanks, man. All right, Colin, I think you're up next. @nixfred: And hang tight, Thundy. Colin's next. @cfaulkingham: Thanks, Wes. Hey, I just wanted to, a couple of things real quick. There is a skill out there. @cfaulkingham: If you go to GitHub and you search Omarchy security skill, it comes up. And I'm not the developer of it, but I used it on two of my plugins with great success. @cfaulkingham: The user is JankEESVW. And he's actually got another great tool. @cfaulkingham: I think it was through him. Let me see if I can find it. @cfaulkingham: It's OV or OmaVM. And it's a tool that allows you to spin up Omarchy distros on Omarchy. @cfaulkingham: And you can use it to test your plugin. @ncfrontiersman: Oh, okay. @cfaulkingham: Yeah. So those are two things that really helped me quite a lot. Of course, I've made a couple of plugins and I've only published a couple of them on the Omarchy plugins directory. @cfaulkingham: The others are on my GitHub. But, you know, I didn't want to specifically plug myself here. @cfaulkingham: I just wanted to tell you guys about the skill, which is very, very useful. And it got me through the pains of testing them out before I published them and saved me a lot of headache. @cfaulkingham: Because the first one I published, I just went through this constant, you know, the automated, you know, CI throwing back all the issues. @cfaulkingham: So, and I started, there was a conversation last week about possibly working on a local AI, doing a fine tune. And I actually started working on that. @cfaulkingham: And actually, I used that tool, the OmaVM tool to sort of test it out. @cfaulkingham: And if anybody's interested in working with me on that, it's currently in its state as a LoRA adapter. And it's kind of a difficult nut to crack for the, if you wanted it for widespread usage to have a local AI on your machine because, you know, you have to run on a potato. @cfaulkingham: So there's not many models out there that run well on a potato. So I did find one that was a very, you know, by LiquidAI that was apparently pretty good. @cfaulkingham: And for my basic testing, it's not bad. But I started out as just doing the training, the fine tuning, just to replace the default Omarchy skill. @cfaulkingham: And I want to let you guys know it's a lot more difficult than I thought it was going to be. You can certainly, you know, fine tune it and get it to do some stuff without the skill. @cfaulkingham: It's very easy to overfit. @ncfrontiersman: Yeah. @cfaulkingham: So it would, the effort, if anybody's still interested in pursuing it, I don't know from last week, it would take a lot more input and training data to get it to be worthwhile. I don't know. @ncfrontiersman: Yeah, yeah. I hear you. I mean, there's just so many man-hours that are going into those models. @ncfrontiersman: It's kind of hard to compete with that. @cfaulkingham: Yeah, but I kind of set up an automated, you know, I had Grok sort of just, you know, doing automated runs and, you know, train, figure out what it needs to do to change, you know, to make it better. And, you know, you can pretty much automate the whole thing, but it's not, unless you have a lot of human input on the fine tuning training data, it's probably not going to be very good. @ncfrontiersman: So, yeah. Well, hey, thanks for chiming in, Colin. I'm going to move on to Thundy next. @thetundeo: Evening, gentlemen. Can you hear me? @nixfred: Yes, we hear you great, Thundy. I got to know, man, how did the London meetup go? You're the leader. @nixfred: I want to hear more about it. We're trying to build one plan and you had great success. @nixfred: So what's the secret, man? @thetundeo: Oh, the secret, I wish I could tell you, but we've not held it yet. It's happening on Thursday. @nixfred: Oh, look at me. @ncfrontiersman: Well, then prophetically, what is the secret? @nixfred: Well, you've already got more people there than prompt committed. So what's the secret? @thetundeo: Secret, honestly, I just did it. I didn't overthink it. I saw the post from DHH where he exchanged a WhatsApp message with, who was it, Toby, when they were raising funds for OmaCon. @ncfrontiersman: Yeah. @thetundeo: Immediately I saw his post. I was driving, I just parked the car and I called my friend. I said, there's this thing. @thetundeo: He hadn't even heard of it. He said, Oma what? @thetundeo: And I just said, you just trust me. You give me a venue, I'll sort everything out. @thetundeo: And they happily gave us the venue. @ncfrontiersman: Wow. You just did it. You didn't think about it. @ncfrontiersman: That's the motto, right? @thetundeo: Yeah, which is very unlike me. @ncfrontiersman: Hey, that's awesome. @nixfred: Changing people's lives. @ncfrontiersman: That's right. @thetundeo: I had a quick question for you, Wes. This relates to a question you asked earlier today about the Rust repo. @ncfrontiersman: Yes. @thetundeo: I just wanted to ask if you could explain to us, because when I saw it, what came to mind was maybe Wes wants examples so you could steer your agent if you're building anything or implementing anything in Rust to say, follow these principles. I assume, but I didn't know. I just wanted to ask you if that was the case. @ncfrontiersman: Yeah, because, you know, I've been doing software 25 plus years professionally, you know, and so I know a lot, but Rust was one of those things I never touched. It's newer. And so my whole thing was, you know, the way I approach things when I learn new languages is I go to find those exemplary code bases that not just look pretty, but that are performant, that have worked well. @ncfrontiersman: In this case, open source, and it seems to be a healthy, you know, repo. And so the idea was, yeah, I want to point my agents at it to say, hey, go look at this code base, pull out the patterns that are being used in the structure. @ncfrontiersman: Where do you find, you know, things that work well and things that have been pain issues? And then the idea from that is kind of to distill it down into a style with the style being examples of code. @ncfrontiersman: I find that when you write a lot of rules in these agent docs to say, you know, do this, don't do that, it doesn't work as well as literally just having code examples. So like in the rails world, show me an example of a well-structured controller model, right, and views. @ncfrontiersman: Don't tell me the right things to do in those. Just show me good examples. @ncfrontiersman: And it tends to follow that better. @thetundeo: Understood. Thank you very much. That's everything. @thetundeo: I don't want to hoard anybody's time. Thank you so much. @ncfrontiersman: Yeah, thank you. Good to hear everything is moving forward and good luck this week. Anybody else want to speak? @ncfrontiersman: We've got time for probably two more people and then we'll call. @nixfred: Is Heath out there? @ncfrontiersman: Oh, it looks like Hancour has hopped in. You want to give him? @nixfred: Yeah, let's talk to him first. @ncfrontiersman: You got anything to say or you just want to hang out? @nixfred: Request to speak, Han. There it is. I got it. @nixfred: Request to speak, Hancour. And Heath, hang on for just one second. @nixfred: Hancour, if you want to speak, go ahead and request to speak and we'll move on to Heath. Everybody likes super sexy hardware and we want the biggest GPUs. @nixfred: Heath has been a buddy of mine for 20 years and he, I can't say where he works or what he does, not trying to be cool, that's legit, but he gets to touch the big stuff. Heath, welcome to the show, man. @nixfred: Tell us about what you work on. @MuchmoreIT: Hey guys, how are you? @nixfred: Doing fantastic, man. @MuchmoreIT: Yeah, so this week has been an interesting Fred. You and I were chatting last week, you know, with Wes and everybody was, you know, I'm fairly new to Omarchy and so I'm learning the plugin aspect. So I got a lot of projects that, you know, I'm trying to like figure out how to do. @MuchmoreIT: But one of the things I kind of indicated last week and I made a little bit of progress, but because I'm a former AMDer and I got the new ROCm10.0 actually working on my Omarchy Linux AMD system here. So I had to cheat to get it to working first just by spoofing the ID. @MuchmoreIT: But now I'm going to work on actually creating an Arch Linux derivative underneath so that it, at least from an Omarchy perspective, to try and make sure that it runs cleanly. Because the new ROCm10.0, massive performance improvements in the AMD world. @MuchmoreIT: And then, Fred, I was tweeting out to you is that, you know, I recently just picked up a, it's the Dell equivalent of an NVIDIA Spark. And so it's called the GP10. @MuchmoreIT: And so I'm just playing around with it with the default DGX OS right now. But I found somebody that's already done some of the work to get Omarchy running, you know, on a Grace Blackwell chip because that's an ARM CPU matched with NVIDIA GPUs. @MuchmoreIT: And so now I'm just going to do a little bit of a benchmark to see where Ubuntu, DGX is a Ubuntu derivative. So I'm going to do some benchmarks on that. @MuchmoreIT: And then last but not least, my long-term goal is that because I'm so tied into the federal market space, I'm going to try and create some shortcuts for any federal customers that would want Omarchy in the future. So that means I got to go out and create a crypto validation suite that can go run through the past, you know, go get tested at NIST. @MuchmoreIT: And that's going to take probably the better part of a year to do that. But in the meantime, the way that we would do it in the federal space is that we would get the updated list. @MuchmoreIT: And Jesus, Fred, I'm drawing a blank on what my own stuff is for the checklist to be able to go out and just, you make these settings and then it's considered safe for running, somewhat safe for running inside of a federal environment. @ncfrontiersman: Omarchy Fort Knox. We'll call it that. @MuchmoreIT: No, there we go. Yeah, we can use the Fort Knox. And so I have a lot of projects in front of me. @MuchmoreIT: The problem is that it is the end of the federal season and I am like crazy nuts busy. So I don't know how much work I'm going to get done over the next three weeks maybe, but maybe see if I can take a week off once I get there. @nixfred: What's the biggest box you've put together that you've gotten to play with, like the most powerful? We all like big and strong, but most of us don't have access to that stuff. @MuchmoreIT: I've been on about a 5,000 GPU system. And then I've also been on a, from a supercomputer perspective, I've been on a probably about a 250,000 core CPU system, something like that. @ncfrontiersman: There you go. @MuchmoreIT: Yeah, I mean, that's my job. I design high-performance computers and AI systems for the federal government. So I get to talk to all the Department of Energy people all the time and, you know, kind of do some big projects. @MuchmoreIT: So, yep. @ncfrontiersman: Kind of like Tony Stark a little bit? @MuchmoreIT: No, not me. Not me, man. @nixfred: He's very humble, but he's super smart and so much fun to be around. Thank you for joining, Heath. @MuchmoreIT: What's that? @nixfred: I said, you're so much fun to be around and a great friend. Thanks for joining today. And Wes, I'll hand it back over to you for our closer. @ncfrontiersman: Yeah. Yeah, thanks, Heath. Yeah, Hancour, nice to meet you virtually. @ncfrontiersman: We're just, this is our second week of doing this. We're just chatting about the whole plugin ecosystem and, you know, some people have backgrounds in programming engineering, others don't. @ncfrontiersman: And so it's just been a really cool environment to be able to get our ideas out there, to have something, you know, that we use locally first and then decide, hey, we want to share this with other people. And so we've been kind of talking through what that process looks like. @ncfrontiersman: So yeah, first of all, thanks for building the marketplace and all. That's awesome. @ncfrontiersman: But yeah, anything you want to share, any new updates coming? Are you swamped in issues and PRs or any way we can help? @hancore_linux: Well, first of all, thank you for the invite. I just joined because of Nix told me, asked me to join. @nixfred: Thank you for joining. Hey, Hancour, I don't know if you know, but there's this place that you can register and submit a plugin. @hancore_linux: Yeah. @nixfred: Hancour runs it, everybody. @hancore_linux: Yeah, I did plenty of updates today. They were necessary, to be honest. And I didn't have a lot of time to take care of the marketplace. @hancore_linux: So maybe some people recognize that I didn't really do a lot of improvements the last week. So yeah, I just hopped today in and, yeah, started to do some maintenance and yeah, that's it, basically. @ncfrontiersman: Wonderful. Yeah, because we were kind of talking about the process of like, you build a plugin, you submit it, you create the issue, and then you get back security, you know, audit validations and how to work through that process. And we were kind of talking like if we could know ahead of time what things would be checked, you know, you could have your agents kind of keep that in mind before you even build it. @ncfrontiersman: And so we had a guy share about something called OmaKit that he built that kind of helps with that. Somebody has built a skill, but is there anything in the official marketplace or anything in the plans to kind of like beyond the, you know, publishing the plugin guidelines that we could use? @nixfred: Yeah, and what's your process? How do you approve them? @hancore_linux: Sorry again. I didn't hear you. @nixfred: Go ahead, Wes. @ncfrontiersman: No, yeah, no, I think Fred was just saying, what's your process for approving? What's that look like? @hancore_linux: Yeah, well, those were two or three questions. Well, we have some plans like for the new marketplaces, which eventually Ryan or DHH will announce them. So I will not talk much about it, but there will be new submission system as well. @hancore_linux: And yeah, it will become soon, but at the moment we are building it or Ryan is mainly building the backend. I just supported him in the frontend for the webpage. @hancore_linux: And now it's taking some directions, I would say. @ncfrontiersman: Wonderful. @hancore_linux: I don't want to spoil a lot of it, but that's the current state. And how to submit, well, there was some like the OmaKit. This is one tool that you can use. @hancore_linux: And one guy also shared one GitHub. I can't remember the name exactly, but this skill also helped a lot of people to get validated and verified for the plugin. @hancore_linux: So yeah, I would recommend to use this. I cannot predict how the new market system will be checked. @hancore_linux: There will be, of course, checked by the agents, but how deep, how far, what's the requirement for this, I don't know yet. @ncfrontiersman: Well, hey, I'm just excited that there's, you know, there's some movement happening and that people are working on it. So that's great. @ncfrontiersman: Wonderful. Well, thanks for joining and I don't, let's see, anything else you want to say before Fred and I close out? @hancore_linux: No, just thank you again for the invite. @ncfrontiersman: Yeah, thank you for joining. Appreciate it, man. All right, let's see here. @ncfrontiersman: All right, so good chat today. Looks like we got one more person in line and then we're going to call it a day and we'll get started with our week. @ncfrontiersman: Okay, let's see here. It just approved. @ncfrontiersman: Mihai, is that how you say it? Mihai: Yes, can you hear me? @ncfrontiersman: Yes, I can. What's up? What's your question or do you want to share something you're working on? Mihai: Yeah, I wanted to share what I've been working on regarding Omarchy. So I managed to reverse and get an Unreal Tournament engine working on Omarchy. Mihai: So I got a game fully running that's running on Linux as well, but basically on Omarchy, on the Mac. And I got it also on the MacBook, which was quite a bit different. Mihai: So there were quite a lot of differences between them. It's quite interesting. Mihai: It's fully running. And I find it quite interesting that it runs pretty well in Omarchy with the current kernel. @ncfrontiersman: Wonderful. And what's your favorite game to play in it? @ncfrontiersman: Did we lose you? @nixfred: I think we might have lost him. @ncfrontiersman: Maybe lost him. Okay. @nixfred: You want to try Tech Luddite and then close it out or what do you think, Wes? @ncfrontiersman: Yeah, two minutes Tech Luddite and then we'll have to close it out. @ncfrontiersman: And then we'll have to see how bad if my buck's lost or not. I don't know. @ncfrontiersman: It was close when I joined. @nixfred: Well, it doesn't look like he's raising his hand. @ncfrontiersman: Okay. All right, well, let's just call it then. I appreciate everybody joining. @ncfrontiersman: It's been another fun time, Sunday social with my buddy Fred here. And yeah, we'll keep doing this. @ncfrontiersman: We'll keep having conversations. We might have more special guests. @ncfrontiersman: We had special guests today. Maybe we'll have more later. @ncfrontiersman: Everybody's a special guest, to be honest with you. @nixfred: I love that. That's exactly right. @ncfrontiersman: You know, because we're all, you know, we're all in our own places and our own life building and just moving forward and having fun. And let's let this be a positive place to share and help each other. @nixfred: And follow each other. @ncfrontiersman: Yep, let's do that. So let's call it. You all have a good week and we'll see you next Sunday. @nixfred: See you next Sunday. Thanks, Wes. Thanks, everybody. @ncfrontiersman: Yeah, thank you, Fred. @nixfred: All right, I'm clear. # EP 03: Omarchy Sunday Social: The One Where Lee Told Us What It Is For Part of "Omarchy! Omarchy! Omarchy!", the weekly Omarchy X Space. Every Sunday, 3pm EST, live on X. - Recorded: Sunday, September 27, 2026, 3pm EST - Length: 75 minutes - Film (Sunday Builders Club, 4 min): https://omarchyspaces.com/films/ep03.mp4 - Speakers: 14+ - Hosts: @ncfrontiersman, @NixFred - Listen: https://x.com/i/spaces/1yKAPwykzqrxb - Post on X: https://x.com/NixFred - Web: https://omarchyspaces.com/ep/03/ ## Summary (as posted on X by @NixFred) Omarchy Sunday Social, Episode 3: the one where Lee told us what it is actually for Recorded Sunday, September 27, 2026. X dropped the first room out from under us before we even started, so if you were in the one that died, that is why. The second one held. Every week so far we have talked about what we are building. This week somebody told us what it is for, and it reframed the whole thing. So this write-up leads with him. WHO WAS IN THE ROOM @NotJustShaking, Lee Shand, 54, from England, living near Nashville, diagnosed with early onset Parkinson's. @ncfrontiersman Wes Grimes, co-host, built OmaStorm. Me, co-host. @thetundeo Tundy in London, back with the report from the first Omarchy London meetup. Mutahir in the Netherlands by way of Pakistan, storage guy turned SRE, built the Oma Vault config sync plugin. @BlackOpsREPL Victorio in Milan, starting an Italian meetup from nothing. @OnTheLiftAI Chris, bringing AI to automotive dealerships. Jeff, retired engineer in eastern Arizona, started a meetup at a Starbucks. @tim_sonner Tim, 20 years of Linux, first time here. Porsche, software developer, running Hermes agents with a Kanban board. @gh_TechLuddite Tech Luddite with the Hermes warnings. @cfaulkingham Colin on why the built-in skill is the killer feature. Snowy, live from Scotland. Gav, who runs his home lab from a boat. Kozha in Cologne, mid-reinstall while talking to us. @tylermayberry Tyler, shipping Ibara. PART ONE: LEE Lee Shand spent his career in IT. UK government as a kid, then trading floor support in the London stock market, then an asset management firm. Somebody needed business continuity handled back when nobody knew what that was, they asked him, and his career took off from there. He ended up VP for business continuity, crisis management and incident management at a firm with $600 billion under management. England to New Jersey to Nashville. About four years in, he was diagnosed with Parkinson's. Early onset, which means before 50. He was about a month into his fifties. He had known something was wrong well before that. His Parkinson's is cognitive, not the tremor most people picture. Memory. Empathy. In his words, the worst part is not the symptom list: "I was, before Parkinson's, the life and soul of the party. They used to call me the mayor of the office. Everybody knew me. I knew everyone. And that kind of faded away. It's probably one of the worst bits of the disease, actually, to watch yourself not be the person that you used to be for people at work, for your family, for your wife." He got let go. He tried day trading for a while and wrote a book about it. Then a friend told him to start writing things down, because he was starting to crack up. His memory was going, and he kept forgetting the symptoms he meant to raise with his neurologist. So he found Obsidian and started building. Here is the part that stopped the room. Lee had never used Linux. Fifty four years, never. Windows did the job, and before the disease he was a heavy gamer. But the deeper he got into AI, the more obvious it became that there was a better life out there in terms of an operating system. He cannot remember where he first saw Omarchy, he thinks a YouTube video. It took him about ten minutes to decide he had to try it. He put it on an external SSD, played with it for a few days, and by day four he was sold. The first thing he built was not impressive and that is exactly why it matters. It is a plugin called First Boot, and it puts one thing on his bar: the time he turned the machine on that day. That is the time he takes his meds. He takes the next round four hours later. Before the plugin, his memory would lose that, and losing it made it a bad day. "The fewer things that I can do to take the stress off me happen to use my energy, the leftover dopamine that I have in the brain, the better for me. It all comes down to ease of use, and how easy it is on my cognitive system." Then the bigger system. Every AI he used kept failing him the same way: context. Codex, Claude Code, it did not matter. It would always run out. And as he points out, a million token window does not fix it, because it resets eventually and the deeper you go the more it costs. So his AI writes everything into Obsidian. Every thought, every conversation, every meeting, every article. It updates the vault at the end of each day and again at the end of the week. When he switches models, the new one reads the handover file and picks up where the last one left off. He can sit down and ask "where am I, where were we yesterday, we talked about this six months ago, what are my next steps," and get an answer. "It truly is my second brain. People band around that phrase a lot, but for me, it really is." And then the line that changed the temperature in the room. He has not seen a neurologist in four years because he cannot afford health insurance. "If AI ever gets taken away from me, if my Omarchy ever gets taken away from me, I will not have a life anymore, because those two things together is what holds me together and gives me a purpose right now." He is not done building either. The problem he is chewing on now is that a vault remembers what you thought six months ago and has no idea it has changed. His example, and he used me as the guinea pig: today he might think Fred is a really nice guy. In six months he might think Fred is an absolute dickhead. Obsidian does not know that unless he tells it. So his plugin Where Was I is going to have the AI audit his own context weekly or monthly, work out what might have changed, ask him questions, and set the record straight. Crucially, without erasing the old entry, because that is history. He wants to know why he changed his mind, not pretend he never held the old view. His closing argument, and he asked to make it: "This would be every cognitive issue. The workflow here is night and day different from Windows. And this will change people's lives. The fact that you can have an issue on Omarchy and the AI client will open up and solve it for you. I had an issue today. It did exactly that. For me, this is the future, not just for people who don't have my kind of condition, but definitely for people who are cognitively challenged." He offered himself up: if anyone ever needs a proponent for Omarchy from a cognitive perspective, he is your man. GO FOLLOW LEE. SERIOUSLY. He is on 164 followers as I write this. He is on a fixed income. His dream is to build enough of an audience on X that it becomes income. X: https://x.com/NotJustShaking Substack: https://shaggyrs6.substack.com His Omarchy video, made this week, about what this OS means to a Parkinson's sufferer: https://x.com/NotJustShaking/status/2104231941415535051 His book, Not Just Shaking, is on Amazon. Follow him. If you can spare it, subscribe. It costs you almost nothing and it matters a lot to him. One more thing worth knowing: hancore, who runs the plugin marketplace and joined us last week, is working on eye-controlled mouse input. Lee's Parkinson's is cognitive and he does not have the mobility problem, but plenty of people with it do. That work is going to matter to somebody. PART TWO: EVERYBODY ELSE Prior art, and not burning tokens on it Lots of PRs for other people this week on my end. Larry has a standing rule to check prior art before building anything, so I hand over the idea and he goes and looks. Twice this week that ended with me not building anything and just using an existing plugin instead. That is a win, not a loss. We are still in the early days and the stuff being created is mind-blowing. If you have an idea, go see if somebody already did it. If they did, improve it, fix a bug, add a feature, send a PR. Or build it for yourself and keep it to yourself, because it is functional for you. That is allowed. Tundy: the London meetup actually happened Sixty registered, about thirty five turned up, three organizers, four speakers. One guy walked in wearing an Omarchy hoodie and Tundy was in stitches. Mehmet from the Omarchy security team explained what actually constitutes a vulnerability, how the team is structured, and how fixes get moved upstream. The message was responsible disclosure: do not go on X and cast aspersions for attention. They get a lot of issues, they find the vulnerabilities, they fix them. And the detail worth repeating everywhere: now that they have a kernel engineer on the team, there are fixes they can land in the Omarchy kernel within two days, before it reaches mainstream. Gavin Nugent, who runs the No Signal YouTube channel, is building an Adobe Creative Suite for Omarchy. Lightroom, Premiere, all of it, end to end. He has thirty years in post production and ran his own post house. He knows what works and what is broken, and he is starting to release. Tundy's whole company runs Omarchy except the designers and marketers, who are still on Mac. This is the thing that changes that. Tristan, who makes Cloud DIR and Rencal, a calendar application native to Omarchy. His philosophy is that applications should be built on text based data stores, because agents find those easy to work with. He also brought a Game Boy running Omarchy, which was the hit of the night. As I said on the call, it kind of makes sense: arrow keys and three buttons, on an OS that already got away from the mouse. On the atmosphere, Wes asked the right question. Tundy's answer: nerds are nerds, everybody is shy to start, you find one or two people and talk to them all night. He had to push himself out of his comfort zone to circulate. But people talked, and a guy with a game he had built was showing it around. Next London one is in two months. He is going to Copenhagen tomorrow to see how they run theirs, and he wants to talk David into coming to the next London event. Victorio: starting Omarchy Milan from nothing Programmer in Milan, twenty years on Linux, always a tiling window manager user, so Omarchy was an easy landing. He noticed there is no Italian meetup, decided that day he wants to host one, and used the mic to say so out loud and look for a sponsor and for Italians listening. If that is you, DM him. Wes told him what he told Tundy: just step out on faith, you will be met. Tundy went from "I think I might want to do this" to four talks and thirty five people in about two weeks. Victorio is also building a planning problem solver, scheduling and vehicle routing, a kind of AI that is not generative, and he wants it on Omarchy. Two PRs in already. Mutahir: Omarchy has its own personality Born in Pakistan, studied and worked in London, now in the Netherlands, two kids. Started in IT in 1999 with networks, then Solaris, then a lot of Microsoft, then storage, NetApp and Hitachi, then solution architect, now SRE for a US company. Lifelong distro hopper, so he has seen the pattern: a new distro arrives and its pitch is that you can theme it to look like a Mac, or like Windows. He remembers when they shipped Lindows. What he liked about DHH's first video was that none of that was said. Omarchy has its own personality. It is not trying to be something else. He has built two plugins, one of them a config sync called Oma Vault, and he submitted a wallpaper for the heritage theme honoring Bill Joy, co-founder of Sun Microsystems and the creator of vi, because nobody else had picked him. Jeff: a cheap PC, a bad riser cable, and Lego bricks Retired engineer, twenty five years in Silicon Valley, now in eastern Arizona where there are more pine trees than technology. He ran his first meetup at the local Starbucks in Show Low last Thursday. Linux since the mid-nineties, back to the Yggdrasil distro on twenty floppy disks. He bought a cheap used PC off Facebook Marketplace, put Omarchy on it, and saw a pile of junk in the system log. The AI pointed at a riser cable. He bought a new one, it fixed it, and it explains why the machine was cheap: it had been crashing for the previous owner. He would not have known to look for what the AI was looking for. Then the good one. There is an open source CAD program called BREP with an MCP server built in. He wrote a skill file about Lego dimensions: stud height, wall thickness, all of it. Then he pointed a local Qwen model on his Mac Studio at the CAD through Omarchy and had it generate eight Lego bricks. It did it perfectly. He exported an STL, printed them, and sat in his chair scratching his chin. He is mostly a local model guy, on a five dollar a month Gemini plan and a 128GB M4 Mac Studio, because he is retired and keeping costs down. He also built a plugin called Radio Garden, a drop down web view of radio.garden, like Radio Atlas but in color with more stations. Tim: repurposing potatoes Twenty plus years of Linux as a basic user, a lot of blue collar work, only recently into tech properly. Never used a tiling window manager, never used Hyprland, always GNOME. What got him was the install: ISO, boot, install, in the OS in two minutes. The only friction was the key bindings, and once he had about twelve of them down it was fine. His phrase for the movement is the one I want to keep: repurposing potatoes. He also described the plugin ecosystem as an ocean where there is a niche for everybody, which is about right. Wes and I both agreed on the key binding thing. You think you cannot do it after years of point and click, you give it a day, and then you cannot explain how you already know them. And for me the bigger change is that windows became disposable. Open it, do the one thing, close it. Porsche: Hermes, Kanban, and bots that hire bots Started on Linux almost twenty years ago while living in China, because she could not find a legal copy of Windows and was tired of buying fake ones. Ubuntu, then Mint. Became a software developer, worked in a lot of Mac shops, and Omarchy finally gave her an excuse to put Linux back on her own machine. First time using tiling. She runs a Hermes agent attached to Telegram and hosted on a private server, so she can talk to it from Omarchy, from a Mac, or from her phone, and the conversation persists across all of them. She is deep in the Kanban feature, where it takes tasks and carries them out on its own, spawning sub agents. She gave it one ticket to build a presentation about domestic cats in the United States and it split itself into four tickets and project managed the whole thing. She also builds what she calls huddles, several bots in one room. She made an HR bot, gave it permissive settings and a soul, and it created other bots for a project without being asked. Her practical tip: cap the number of attempts in a huddle, because unlimited means they will burn all your tokens arguing. Each bot can run its own model. When Wes suggested the value is that it forces small iterative tasks and better context engineering, she corrected him, twice, and she was right: "I don't force it at all." Tech Luddite: be careful where you put Hermes He has three Hermes installations in different configurations and was careful to call himself an amateur at it. His warning is the useful part: Hermes does things on its own, by design. It does more than you explicitly tell it to. A harness with good system instructions can be held firmer; those are still soft guardrails, but they are tighter. He put his third installation in a dedicated working folder because he is not comfortable with the default location. His advice, which I would take: be careful where you put it, or spend real time learning what it does on its own before you let it run. He is currently using six harnesses because he is deliberately learning them individually. He said it is not efficient. It is how he likes to work. Snowy, from Scotland: a comms manager, a researcher, a reviewer, and a coach Same Hermes thread from another angle. She runs a comms manager for social posts, a researcher, a reviewer, and a coach that tells her when she has not moved enough or has eaten too much. Kanban splits a task across the bots, each one on a model suited to its job, a research-strong model for the researcher. And the small thing that makes it work: she told her Omarchy laptop to make Super Shift H the Hermes shortcut, so it opens on a keystroke into the scratchpad, and she can flick back to it any time to see how it is getting on. That combination is why she likes the two together. Colin: the built-in skill is the killer feature Using agents on Omarchy is refreshing compared to a Mac because the built-in Omarchy skill means the agent actually understands what it can do. He had Kua Hyper messing with Hyprland and breaking things across machines, handed it to an agent, and it fixed it. He wants to see the skill go even further and become the core of the platform. Wes added the other half: nearly everything on the system is configured in plain TOML or config files that reload when edited. No registry, no plist. That is what makes it perfect for agents. Colin has already modified the bundled agents plugin himself to add Grok and DeepSeek, which is the whole point. Do not like how a plugin behaves? Change it. Jeff, who admitted he did not know what a skill file was until recently, pointed out where they live for anyone else in that boat: a hidden .agents folder in your home directory, with skills inside, human readable Markdown you can read and extend. Gav: a home lab on a boat IT infrastructure and operations director for a global pharmaceutical tech company in the UK. He lives on a boat on the south coast. He built his entire home lab, or boat lab, on two mini PC servers running NixOS plus a Raspberry Pi for a NAS, and used Omarchy on his laptop to set all of it up. He self hosts around twenty four apps. Then the part I want to steal: he runs a daily ops standup with his agents that walks the whole stack and reports his 3-2-1 backup status, errors in the logs, networking, and what is running. He is honest about the arc, too. Serial distro hopper, CachyOS, NixOS, started on Bazzite and bounced off the lockdown. And he hated the original version of Omarchy, no lie, because he is a minimalist. He moved to Quattro at launch and is now stuck on it and no longer hopping. He also wants wind data in OmaStorm, which Wes says is coming, somebody has a PR in. Kozha: reinstalling live on the call In Cologne, talking to us while doing a full reinstall. His machine went into a reboot loop and showed a tiny message about no key found for the password, as though the disk were encrypted, which he never did. He suspects a bad Wi-Fi connection corrupted an update mid-flight, since he installed over flaky Wi-Fi with no LAN adapter. Tech Luddite's advice for anyone who lands there: first check from outside the boot process whether the disk is actually encrypted, and if it is not, go read the last few session logs and have an agent analyze them. It felt like you did nothing, and you probably did do nothing, but something did. Kozha's own summary is the one I keep thinking about. Every computer in his household is now exclusively Omarchy. His girlfriend asked for dual boot on her laptop and inside 24 hours it was Omarchy only, because she liked it too. His line on Windows: buying a Windows computer is like buying a baby. It needs antivirus, it needs this, it needs that, and no, you cannot go home yet because it needs to update. He never expected old machines to run at this pace again. Tyler: Ibara Building Ibara, which connects all of your PCs and hands them to your agents. Control them from your main Omarchy machine and reach every other Omarchy machine through one flow. If it is on Tailscale, you install a plugin, press a button, and hand it to any agent, or drive the desktop yourself. Like Grokbot, except it is all your own hardware. He was trying to ship it the next day. Chris: slow down Brings AI to automotive dealerships, diagnostic tools and the rest. What he wanted to say was thank you, to Wes and me and Tech Luddite, for helping him get into the mindset of slowing down and building methodically. Wes had the better version of it: there is always the feeling that you could kick off another agent, spend more tokens, build more. But the best things come from stepping away and asking what is actually bothering you, then going back and fixing that. There is a difference between being busy and making progress. And AI will tell you everything you do is amazing, because it is an amplifier, so keep your own agency. Chris's version: if I eat rocks, will it get rid of my headache? Yes. There is still some thinking you have to do yourself. THE QUESTIONS STILL OPEN Q1. Who else is Omarchy quietly load bearing for? Lee is one person who found this on his own and rebuilt his life around it. He is not going to be the only one. Nobody is looking for these people, and there is no obvious place for them to land when they arrive. Q2. What happens to accessibility work in this community? hancore is building eye-controlled mouse input. Lee is building cognitive scaffolding. Neither of them started out as an accessibility project and neither of them is coordinated with the other. Is that a thing the community should organize, or does it work better as people scratching their own itch in public? Q3. How do you keep a second brain honest over time? Lee's problem generalizes to everyone with a memory system: it stores what you believed, and has no idea when you stop believing it. His answer is a scheduled audit that asks you questions and appends the correction without destroying the history. Nobody else in the room had solved it. Most of us have not noticed it yet. Q4. Where should Hermes actually live? Three people ran into the same thing from different directions. It does more than you tell it to, by design. Tech Luddite moved his to a dedicated folder because he was not comfortable with the default. Porsche runs hers on a private server. Nobody stated a norm. What is the safe default install for something that acts on its own? Q5. Does the built-in skill become the platform? Colin wants it to go further and become the core of Omarchy. Everybody agreed it is the killer feature. Nobody knows what "further" looks like or who decides. Q6. Corrupt update, no recovery story. Kozha's machine broke mid-update over bad Wi-Fi and the only path back was a full reinstall. Tech Luddite raised checksums after download and said he has not verified whether that happens. That is worth someone actually checking. Q7. What is the Italian meetup going to need? Victorio said out loud that the hard part is a sponsor and a venue. Tundy's answer two weeks ago was just do it and ask a friend for a room. The pattern is repeatable but nobody has written it down. ASKS ON THE TABLE Follow Lee Shand. Subscribe to his Substack if you can. That is the ask of the week. Victorio needs Italians and a venue for Omarchy Milan. Gav wants wind data in OmaStorm, and there is a PR waiting for Wes to get to. Tundy is in Copenhagen this week and wants David at the next London meetup. Tyler is shipping Ibara and wants people to try it. Everybody: follow everybody in the room. Bring a friend next week. NEXT SUNDAY Same time, 3pm EST. Same deal: raise your hand, tell us what you are building, tell us where you are stuck. You do not need anything impressive. Jeff introduced himself and ended up teaching the room how to print Lego bricks from a CAD MCP server. Omarchy is an operating system, so what. The community is what makes this thing important. Get out there this week and reach out to somebody. Help somebody. Be the person who lifts them up, it does not cost you anything. Help an old lady across the street, and when you get her over there, put Omarchy on her laptop. Wes and I just happen to be the hosts. You are the star. A note on the transcript: the transcription tool assigns speaker labels automatically and it got several of them wrong, including putting Lee's name on Wes's hosting lines through the back half. Those have been corrected by hand against the audio's context. Speakers whose X handle we could not confirm appear under their first name. ## Transcript Machine generated. Speaker labels come from the transcription tool and are reused for different people; the summary says who is who. @ncfrontiersman: Yep. Okay. Wonderful. @ncfrontiersman: X is a space is a little bit buggy, but I think we're good now. I see people jumping in. @ncfrontiersman: Fred, are you there? @NixFred: You bet I am, brother. How do I sound? @ncfrontiersman: You sound crisp. @NixFred: Crisp. @ncfrontiersman: So... @NixFred: Yeah. $99 will do for you, Fred. @ncfrontiersman: Love it. Love it. All right. @ncfrontiersman: Well, I mean, we can give people a couple minutes to hop in. It's just getting started, but beautiful Sunday afternoon here on the East Coast. @NixFred: Well, let me... I'm going to go find Leon and make sure he's in because... @ncfrontiersman: He's in. @NixFred: Oh, Leon? @ncfrontiersman: I see him. Yeah, he's in. @NixFred: Oh, there he is. What's up, Lee? @NixFred: You can speak, man. @NotJustShaking: Yeah. I'm here. I'm here. @NixFred: Hey, Lee. Good to see you, man. @NotJustShaking: Yeah, you too. @ncfrontiersman: Lee, what's happening? Nice to meet you, man. @NotJustShaking: Yeah, you as well. Thank you for the invite. @ncfrontiersman: Absolutely. @NixFred: You got to just wait till you hear what he's doing with Omarchy. It's amazing. @ncfrontiersman: Oh, I've been waiting all week, man. I really have. @NixFred: Yeah, we... when was it, Lee, two days ago we spoke by Zoom? @NotJustShaking: Yes, sir. @NixFred: Sir, you don't have to call me sir. That's my mom. @NixFred: Yeah, but man, you have a great story. And when I heard it, I was like... I asked Wes, I was like, "What do you think?" @NixFred: And he goes, "Absolutely." You got to get Lee on. @ncfrontiersman: Yeah. @NotJustShaking: Yeah. @ncfrontiersman: Yeah. This is the kind of stuff that... everybody talks, and I'll say this probably a few times, but everybody keeps talking about AI as, "Oh, it's never being used for anything good in this world." I'm like, "Bullcrap." @ncfrontiersman: And this is the perfect example of that. I think it's unlocking something for people that maybe would have had to have spent too much money or just not had the ability to at all. @ncfrontiersman: And now it's just kind of levels of playing field, and I love it, so. @NotJustShaking: Yep. Absolutely. @NixFred: And then you got folks like Hancour that are doing the mouse-driven by the eyes, which is incredible, which... Lee, does not have the mobility problem. And Lee, I'm not going to tell your story, but... @ncfrontiersman: Wow. @NixFred: But a lot of folks with Parkinson's do have that trouble, and Hancour is working on being able to control your mouse with the eyes. I think I tagged you on that, Lee. It's pretty incredible stuff he's working on. @ncfrontiersman: Wow. @NotJustShaking: Yeah, good. I did see that. @NixFred: Hey, Lee. Can you speak up a little bit when we talk? @NotJustShaking: Yeah, let me move. @ncfrontiersman: All right. So if everybody in here could take a minute and share the X space just so everybody gets the latest one because the other one dropped out, that would help. @ncfrontiersman: I want to try to get a few more folks in before we get started here. @NixFred: Done. I did it. I did it. @ncfrontiersman: All right. Awesome. @ncfrontiersman: It's kind of like... I don't know if any of y'all work where you have to get in a Zoom or something, and it's like, "Let's give people a few minutes to hop in." @NixFred: Yeah. @NotJustShaking: Yeah. @ncfrontiersman: I know. I know. I feel like for those of us that are punctual... @NixFred: Exactly. Punish the people on time. @ncfrontiersman: It's like church. It's like, "Get that music going. Get them sitting in their seats." @NixFred: So, Wes, let's look at the folks that are here and make a mental note before it gets too big. These are the people that show up, and it's important. And I know that we've got you planned out today to have folks speak and tell their story. @NixFred: Lee's going to lead it off for us and show us how it's done. But then let's make sure that the folks that showed up early want to speak first online. @ncfrontiersman: Yeah, totally. So if anybody wants to speak, go ahead and give me a thumbs up. Again, it's just a simple, "Hey, what's going on? @ncfrontiersman: What are you working on?" If you got a question for the group, that kind of thing, just thumbs up. @NixFred: Here's Christopher White on the Lift AI. He thumbs up. I don't know if he's in or not, but. @ncfrontiersman: Okay. @NixFred: Okay. There'll be more people than we can have time for, but. @ncfrontiersman: All right. @NixFred: All right. Up to you, Wes. @ncfrontiersman: All right. Great. Tundy's got an update. @ncfrontiersman: So I saw Tundy. @NixFred: He's awesome. Tundy's awesome. And he had an amazing... this time I'm right. @NixFred: He had an amazing kickoff to the London. So we got to hear all about that this week, the London meetup. @NixFred: Last week I was a little. @ncfrontiersman: Sure. @NixFred: Sure. @ncfrontiersman: Yeah, definitely. Can't wait. Okay. @ncfrontiersman: All right. Well, you know what? @ncfrontiersman: Let's go ahead and get started. People can hop in when they want to. @ncfrontiersman: And yeah, so this is what? Is this the second or third one? @ncfrontiersman: This is the third one. @NixFred: This is the third. @ncfrontiersman: This is episode three, whatever you want to call it. And yeah, I mean, I'm just kind of blown away at how this has gone and everybody has been sharing what they're doing, their story. I love it. @ncfrontiersman: I want this to be a community, no matter what background you come from, engineering or not, any political spectrum, any spectrum of all kinds, that we can all just come be together and have a moment on Sundays before the week gets crazy to just chat and lift each other up. So I'm looking forward to it. @ncfrontiersman: I know everybody's got something they want to share, but yeah, Fred, what's been going on in your neck of the woods? @NixFred: Lots of PRs. Put in some PRs for some other folks. This week I had a couple of ideas and I was working on them. @NixFred: And one ended up happening is Larry, he's got a standing rule to go check prior art. And what I typically do is give Larry the idea and then he checks prior art. @NixFred: And there's a thing that we all get so crazy about AI and making applications and tokens are so expensive. So I came up with some ideas that I wanted to do this week, and then I ended up just using existing plugins. @NixFred: And we're still in the real early days with Omarchy, but things are being created and designed that are just mind-blowing. And I'd encourage you to continue to make your own stuff and customize. @NixFred: And if you've got an idea of something that you want to build, go look and see if there's somebody that's already done it. And if they have, either improve it, fix a bug, add a feature, send a PR, or if you don't want to do that, build it for yourself and just keep it to yourself because it's functional for you. @NixFred: And so when you think about making things that function for you, I bumped into this guy, Lee Shand, on X. And he sent me a DM and he said, "Hey, man, I want to talk to you." @NixFred: And I think it was actually public that he said, "Hey, can we meet online?" And I said, "Absolutely." @NixFred: And that goes for each and every one of you. If there's something that you want to talk about and you've got something that you want to work through together, it can be about computers, it can be about Omarchy, it can be about life. @NixFred: And the cool thing is, Lee hit all three of those boxes. He wanted to talk about life, he wanted to talk about computers, he wanted to talk about Omarchy. @NixFred: And we spent probably an hour, hour plus, a couple of days ago. And I was just dumbfounded at the things that Lee's done and the way that he's using Omarchy. @NixFred: And Lee, I really appreciate your friendship that we're already building. And it's pretty amazing. @NixFred: And then can you just take a couple of minutes and I don't want to share too much of your story because there's some things that are pretty personal. And you told me that I had the green light, but I'm going to... I want you to tell people the things that you told me and introduce yourself. @NixFred: And then myself and Wes will just ask you a few questions. And let's go for it, Lee. @NixFred: Who are you? What do you do? @NixFred: And you've got Parkinson's, man. That fucking sucks. @NixFred: Tell us what you're doing about it. @NotJustShaking: Yeah. So thanks, Fred. And thanks for that chat that we had earlier on in the week. @NotJustShaking: It was amazing. I'd recommend anyone that wants to get with Fred to do so. @NotJustShaking: It won't be time wasted. But as Fred said, my name is Lee. @NotJustShaking: I'm 54. Originally from England, and I moved to the US about 12 years ago for work. @NotJustShaking: Just a quick rundown of my background. It's an IT-based background. @NotJustShaking: I worked for the government as a kid, and then I finished up there and was trade floor support for a company within the UK stock market and then an asset management firm in the UK. And then around the wide UK, they needed someone to look after business continuity. @NotJustShaking: And of course, nobody knew what that was back then. And they asked me to do that. @NotJustShaking: And my career just kind of took off from there, and I became the VP for business continuity, crisis management, and incident management for a $600 billion asset under management firm based in the US. Started with them in the UK, and then, like I say, I moved to the US. @NotJustShaking: Started there in New Jersey, and then they transferred the firm down to the Nashville area, and that's where I am now. @NixFred: And it's awesome. Oh, sorry. Go ahead. @NixFred: Go ahead. @NotJustShaking: Sorry. And about four years into that, I was... in that move down to Nashville, I was diagnosed with Parkinson's. And early onset Parkinson's, actually, which means any age before 50 or 50 bang on. @NotJustShaking: I think I was probably a month into my 50s. And I knew something was going wrong well before then. @NotJustShaking: We were going through COVID, and everybody was working from home. And I was, before Parkinson's, the life and soul of the party. @NotJustShaking: They used to call me the mayor of the office. Everybody knew me. @NotJustShaking: I knew everyone. And that kind of faded away. @NotJustShaking: It's probably one of the worst bits of the disease, actually, to watch yourself not be the person that you used to be for people at work, for your family, for your wife. And ultimately, I got let go. @NotJustShaking: I got let go, and then I kind of tried to day trade in for a little while. I wrote a book on day trading. @NotJustShaking: And then to cut a very long story short, I needed to start writing stuff down because I was starting to crack up. A friend of mine told me to write stuff down. @NotJustShaking: And then my memory started to go, and I was forgetting about the symptoms that I would want to go and talk to my neurologist about. And then I found a product called Obsidian and started building. @NixFred: Hold on, Lee. Before you go there, let's back up a little bit. So you had never used Linux before, Omarchy. @NixFred: Is that correct? @NotJustShaking: No. 54 years on this planet, I've used Linux till last time. @NixFred: Why is that? Is it because it just didn't... the interface wasn't right, or it didn't help you out, or was Windows and Macintosh doing the job for you? @NotJustShaking: Yeah. No. Windows was doing the job for me. @NotJustShaking: I was... before the disease, I was heavy into playing games. I still do a little bit now, half of it, so I'll tell you if anyone knows what that is. @NotJustShaking: But yeah, no, it was doing the job for me. But the more that I got into AI through the Obsidian stuff that I was doing, the more it became apparent that there was a better life out there in terms of an OS. @NotJustShaking: And I can't even remember where I saw Omarchy. I think it was a YouTube video. @NotJustShaking: And it took me about 10 minutes to figure out that I needed to try it. So I did it in stages. @NotJustShaking: I put it on an SSD, an external SSD, and played around with it for a few days. And I think after day four, I was sold. @NotJustShaking: The way that I could be productive in Omarchy versus the way that I couldn't be productive in the way that I wanted to was night and day. And an example of that would be I can decide... how can I say this? @NotJustShaking: I'm not going to say that Omarchy proves everything to move away from Windows, right? But because it's an agentic system, it enables me to have so much more control over what I want to do. @NotJustShaking: For instance, the actual first thing I did with Omarchy, right, which there's ways I could have done this with Windows, is that I need to know what time I woke up, right? And Windows used to tell me through the Event Viewer, right? @NotJustShaking: I'd just go and look in the Event Viewer, and it'd tell me when I first turned my PC on. That was just a pain in its ass itself. @NotJustShaking: The fewer things that I can do to take the stress off me happen to use my energy, the leftover dopamine that I have in the brain, the better for me. It all comes down to ease of use, right, and how easy it is on my cognitive system. @NotJustShaking: So the first thing I did with Omarchy, and this was after about two days, is I wrote a little plugin that's just called First Boot. And it puts on my bar, right, that I have at the bottom the first day at the time I woke up. @NotJustShaking: And that's important to me because that's exactly the time I take my meds. And I know I have to take my next round of meds four hours after that. @NotJustShaking: And because of my memory, I would always forget that. Then that would become a bad day. @NixFred: Okay. And I'm going to stop me if I share too much, but your Parkinson's is not to the point where you're the shaky part. Your Parkinson's is your memory, correct? @NixFred: And so. @NotJustShaking: Yeah. My Parkinson's right now is all cognitive-based. So memory, empathy. @NixFred: I'm sorry to talk over you. @NotJustShaking: That's all right. You go. @NixFred: The mix of Omarchy and Obsidian together, you showed me your spiderweb of Obsidian. And what is there like? 2,000, 3,000 years ago? @NixFred: It was amazing. @NotJustShaking: Yeah. So where AI was failing me was context. @NotJustShaking: Even in Codex or Claude Code, I was using Claude Code and Codex as a kind of chatbot, right? But it doesn't really matter. @NotJustShaking: It applies everywhere, right, even to the chat portion. But it would always run out of context. @NotJustShaking: And I wanted something to have that would never run out of context. So whenever I went back to my PC, I knew where I left off. @NotJustShaking: Now, even if you set your context to one million tokens within whichever AI client that you're using, right, number one, that's going to reset at some point. And number two, the further you get into that context, right, the more tokens you're using. @NotJustShaking: So what I've built with what I've built with Obsidian is my AI of choice will log every single thing that I do, every thought I have, every conversation I have, every meeting I go to, every article I write is saved within my Obsidian application. @NixFred: That's amazing. @NotJustShaking: So I never lose context because my AI will update it at the end of every day with today's work. It will update it at the end of the week with the week's work. So it always knows where I am. @NotJustShaking: Even when I switch AI LLM, so maybe I'm going from Codex to Claude, Claude will pick that up as well. It'll read the hand over MD, and it will know where I am. @NotJustShaking: So wherever I go, it doesn't matter. I can always type into AI that, "Where am I? @NotJustShaking: Where was we yesterday? We talked about this six months ago. @NotJustShaking: What's my next steps?" I can't remember. @NixFred: I gotcha. Wow. So it's truly augmenting your brain. @NixFred: It's your second yeah. @NotJustShaking: It truly is my second brain. People band around that phrase a lot, but for me, it really is. And I did that little video that I popped up on my X account earlier and said that if I don't have any income, I've not seen a neurologist for four years because I can't afford health insurance. @NotJustShaking: If AI ever gets taken away from me, if my Omarchy ever gets taken away from me, I will not have a life anymore because those two things together is what holds me together and gives me a purpose right now. The only issue I have with it, and actually, this comes from our conversation. @NotJustShaking: You asked me the other day, Fred, "Where do I get my ideas from?" Well, it's by having conversations like this. @NotJustShaking: And I would ask everybody every opportunity they can do to have conversations like this with the people here or outside of here, do it because that sparks ideas. And I realize what I need now to do with my system, the problem I have with that is what I thought and logged six months ago. @NotJustShaking: And I said this to Fred in the meeting. It was only afterwards that I thought of the solution. @NotJustShaking: Is today I might think Fred's a really nice guy, right? Six months' time, I might think Fred's an absolute dickhead, right? @NotJustShaking: But Obsidian won't know that, right? I'd have to tell it. @NotJustShaking: So how I thought of doing that, and this will go into my plugin that I've created for Omarchy as well called Where Was I, is that I'm going to have AI audit my context on a monthly basis or a weekly basis. So it'll go through all my context, think of all the things at a high level that might have changed or would have an implication to me and my thoughts if they had changed, ask me a bunch of questions, and it'll go back and set the record @NotJustShaking: straight. Now, I don't want that record to be changed, right? Because that's history, right? @NotJustShaking: I may well have thought Fred was a nice person six months ago, right? But I want to know why I don't think he's a nice person now. @NotJustShaking: Do you get me? @NixFred: It's very common. Very common. Okay. @NixFred: Lee, we really appreciate you coming in and speaking with us. And I appreciate your friendship. @NixFred: I've really never messed around with Substack, but I did subscribe to your Substack. Could everybody do me and Lee and Wes a favor? @NixFred: Could you follow Lee right now? And if you find it in your heart to subscribe to his Substack, he is on a fixed income, and things don't get any cheaper. @NixFred: So follow your heart. If you want to subscribe to him, great. @NixFred: But please, everybody follow Lee. Let's blow him up. @NixFred: And his dream is to be able to influence folks on X and possibly get some income through that. So let's help him out here. @NotJustShaking: Oh, yeah. @NixFred: And Lee, we really appreciate you, man. @NotJustShaking: Yeah. Let me just close off with one thing. I will say about Omarchy that for someone with cognitive issues, not just Parkinson's, right? @NotJustShaking: This would be every cognitive issue. The workflow here, right, is night and day different from Windows. @NotJustShaking: And I speak about it on my Substack nonstop. People are probably getting annoyed with me, but I'm in a lot of Parkinson's or neurodivergent subscriptions on Substack. @NotJustShaking: And this will change people's lives. The fact that you can have an issue on Omarchy and you can just and the AI client will open up and solve it for you. @NotJustShaking: I had an issue today. It did exactly that. @NotJustShaking: It's mind-blowing. For me, this is the future, not just for people who don't have my kind of condition, but definitely for people who are cognitively challenged, this makes it so much easier. @NixFred: Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I think about people with Alzheimer's. @NixFred: It runs in my family. Maybe one day I'll have to deal with that. @NixFred: And it's just to think that there's hope. It's just really cool. @NixFred: Thank you for sharing your story, Lee. And I got a feeling I'm going to want you to talk a lot more often. @NotJustShaking: Absolutely. Absolutely. @NixFred: I want to hear what you got to say. You've got a lot to tell. And yeah, everybody, please follow Lee. @NixFred: Support him. @NotJustShaking: Yeah. Do you ever need a proponent for Omarchy from a cognitive perspective? I'm your man. @NotJustShaking: I could talk all day about it. @NixFred: Awesome. All right. That's wonderful. @NixFred: All right. Thank you, Lee. @NotJustShaking: You're very welcome. @NixFred: I tried to promote somebody's speaker, and I don't think it worked. I think Tunde was going to talk about London, but I'll leave it to you, Wes. @ncfrontiersman: Yeah. Yeah. Mutahir here. @ncfrontiersman: I'm sorry if I'm not saying that right. I think they're up next. @NixFred: All right. You're the boss, man. Let's do it. @ncfrontiersman: And then we can get Tundy. So let me add as a speaker. All right. @ncfrontiersman: Let's see. Did that work? @NixFred: Hey, Lee, let's catch up again by video this week, okay, man? @NotJustShaking: Sure. @NixFred: All right, brother. Thank you, man. Love you, man. @ncfrontiersman: Let's see. @ncfrontiersman: Did that not work? Let's see. @NixFred: Yeah. I tried to promote Tunde and somebody else earlier, and it just dismissed it. So I don't know. @ncfrontiersman: Okay. All right. If you want to speak, just request again, and let's try and see if it'll work. @ncfrontiersman: I'm going to try Tundy. @NixFred: I wonder if we can promote to speaker. @ncfrontiersman: Yeah. I'm hitting invite to speak, but it's not doing anything. @NixFred: Uh-oh. Well, we might have to carry that. @ncfrontiersman: Oh, there we go. Wait. Got a question. @ncfrontiersman: Let's see. Tundy. @ncfrontiersman: There we go. Tunde's a speaker. @ncfrontiersman: Oh, and Mutahir is a speaker as well. Okay. Mutahir: This is Mutahir. @ncfrontiersman: Mutahir. All right. All right. @ncfrontiersman: Head it up. What's going on? @ncfrontiersman: What's going on? Mutahir: I think this is the first time I'm joining your space over here. And Fred was mentioning me in a DM that, "Mutahir, you have to join." So you guys can hear me, or? @NixFred: Oh, yeah. Yeah. You sound great. Mutahir: So I'm originally from Pakistan, but I was living in London before. I was studying there. I was working there. Mutahir: Then I went back to Pakistan. Then I got a job, and I moved to the Netherlands. Mutahir: So I'm currently based in the Netherlands. I have two kids. Mutahir: I'm married. I was born in 1978, so I don't know. Mutahir: That makes me 47, 48. @NixFred: Yep. Yeah. We'll get up there. Mutahir: And yeah, I started my career in IT in 1999, I believe. And it was with Networks first, Ericsson Tigris, and things like that. Then I did some of Solaris, then a lot of Microsoft in between with exchange servers and databases servers. Mutahir: Then my interest and passion was the storage industry. So I did a lot of work on NetApp, Hitachi. Mutahir: And then I was working as a solution architect as well at one point in life. But nowadays, I'm working as an SRE kind of thing at a US company in the Netherlands. Mutahir: So over there, I'm doing infrastructure support and escalation and things like that. @NixFred: Yeah. Cool. How did you find Omarchy? @NixFred: And what is this for? Mutahir: Well, I've been a distro hopper all my life. So I was always into Unix-like systems or Linux-like systems. So when I saw Omarchy and DHH and all that, and I thought, "Okay, this looks different." Mutahir: And the one thing I liked about when DHH was doing the YouTube video, the first one he did, was that previously, we would have Linux distributions coming out left, right, and center, and they will say, "Okay, you can have a Mac-like theme. It works like Mac." Mutahir: Or you can see it's themed in a Windows kind of way. But what I liked about DHH's video is that he never said anything because Omarchy has its own personality. Mutahir: It's not like that it's trying to become a Mac or a Windows. I don't know if I'm clear. Mutahir: I mean, maybe I'm going too fast. But what I mean is it's not like we are trying to be something else. Mutahir: So Mac has its own pros and cons. Windows, every operating system is good. Mutahir: I don't hate any operating system. But I liked Omarchy because of the keyboard-driven thing as well and the tiling window manager. Mutahir: And it's based on Arch. So I have used Arch before, but not heavily. Mutahir: It was only a few times. But yeah. Mutahir: And of course, it's installed very quickly. And then you are at the get-go. Mutahir: You don't have to do much, right? @NixFred: Yeah. You make a really good point that all the distros have been, "Here's a brand new distro. You can make it just like Mac." Mutahir: Yeah. So people would release themes and icons and things like that. If you remember, there was a time they even released Lindos. @NixFred: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. @NixFred: So I think the transition for Omarchy is that we don't want to be like that anymore. And traditionally, distros would try to say, "We're a new distro, but I'm going to reach down and make it like Windows or make it like Mac." @NixFred: And I think that we have completely decided as an Omarchy community, we don't want that. We're going in our own direction now. Mutahir: Yeah. I mean, it's good as it is, right? And especially with all of this AI and development thing, I'm not a pro software developer myself, but yes, I was working with Claude and Codex on CLI a few times. Mutahir: And then I started making plugins for Omarchy. I made two plugins. Mutahir: One was the config sync. It's called Oma Vault. Mutahir: And the other one I think I did was I will share the link later on. @NixFred: Awesome. Mutahir: But yeah. So it's good. I mean, I also submitted a wallpaper in the heritage theme of Bill Joy because that's one of my favorite legends from that IT industry or Silicon Valley. Mutahir: He used to work. He was a co-founder of Sun Microsystems, Bill Joy, and he was the creator of VI Editor. @NixFred: Nice. Nice. Nice. Mutahir: So when DHH announced that we are going to make this theme, so I said, "Okay, man, nobody has mentioned Bill Joy. I will go with Bill Joy." @NixFred: That's right. That's right. Well, man, thank you for speaking up and dropping in. Mutahir: Thank you for giving me the time and invitation as well. But it's good to catch up. And Lee, really moved by the way you were using it and everything. Mutahir: And man, all the best wishes to you. So if you want to talk or anything, you can just ping us. @NixFred: Nice. Mutahir: Thank you, bud. @NixFred: Love it. Fantastic. All right. @NixFred: Wes, I'll yield to you, man. Take over. @ncfrontiersman: Yeah. @NixFred: Tundy, I think you're up, man. I want to hear about how Omarchy London went. I saw some pictures. @NixFred: Maybe there was a video, but you had a few talks. @NixFred: Do you want to tell us about how that went? @thetundeo: Hello. Hello. Can you hear me? @NixFred: Absolutely. Coming in. @thetundeo: Thank you. Good evening, gentlemen. Evening, everyone. @thetundeo: Okay. It was a good event. @thetundeo: And well, I guess to everyone, I'm Tundy. I'm from London. @thetundeo: I run a software company. @NixFred: Hey, buddy. Let me just jump in a little, okay? @thetundeo: Whoops. How about now? @NixFred: Much better. @thetundeo: Okay. Sorry. I said I'm Tundy. @thetundeo: I'm from London. I run a company here called ZeroRAM, and we host the Omarchy London meetups. @thetundeo: Well, officially, I can say that now because the meetup actually happened. So I think we had about 60 or so people that registered and about 35 people turned up. @NixFred: Wow. @thetundeo: And yeah, it was surprising, honestly. And that's 35 or 37 minus the organizers, which was just about three of us. And we had four speakers, myself included, and various people did turn up. @thetundeo: Some people who'd been using the platform from the beginning. I saw a guy who had an Omarchy hoodie on. @thetundeo: And so obviously, when he walked in, I was just in stitches. I was laughing when I saw the guy. @thetundeo: And some people who had heard about it, but I just never used the platform or the OS. So the speakers, we had Mehmet from the Omarchy security team. @thetundeo: We had a gentleman called Gavin Nugent, who runs a YouTube channel called No Signal. I encourage you to go watch that channel. @thetundeo: He's a good guy. And we had Tristan, who is the maker of Cloud DIR and Rencal. @thetundeo: And then we had myself at the end. So Mehmet was able to talk about what constitutes a vulnerability, how the team is set up, and how they go about resolving vulnerabilities and cascading it. @thetundeo: Was it cascading now or moving it upstream? And obviously, this conversation ended with encouraging responsible disclosure. @thetundeo: Nobody should really just go on X and just disrepute or cast aspersions on Omarchy, maybe to get attention or something. But they do get a lot of issues. @thetundeo: They identify the vulnerabilities, and they fix them. And one thing he did stress was because now they've got a kernel engineer in their team, there are fixes they can make to the Omarchy kernel within two days, even before it makes it to mainstream. @thetundeo: And that was incredible. And I think whenever we find people talking down the platform, we should just be able to throw those things at them and just respond in kind or not. @thetundeo: And so it was very good. That was Mehmet's session. @thetundeo: Then Gavin's session was incredible. I do say in the company, I use Omarchy. @thetundeo: My CTO uses Omarchy. My developers use Omarchy. @thetundeo: But the designers and marketers, they don't. They're on Mac. @thetundeo: Now, what Gavin is doing is Gavin is basically building an Adobe Creative Suite for Omarchy, like everything. Lightroom, Adobe Premiere, everything. @thetundeo: Literally everything. And Gavin is special because Gavin's been in post-production for 30 years. @thetundeo: Can you imagine that? He ran his own post-prod company. @thetundeo: He's been around for ages. And so he's doing everything, and he's going to start releasing it. @thetundeo: If he didn't release it last week, maybe he's going to start releasing the first thing from next week. But he's going to do everything end to end. @thetundeo: So he's used all the platforms. He knows what worked. @thetundeo: He knows what's broken. He's going to fix everything, and he's going to release it. @thetundeo: So Omarchy is going to be available even for the creatives. So it's not just for the nerds anymore, even for the creatives to do design work, edit videos, everything. @thetundeo: He's building that. So I'm very, very excited about that one. @thetundeo: Then Rencal, the guy who he's built Rencal. Rencal is a calendar application native to Omarchy. @thetundeo: And his philosophy is he builds his applications based on text-based data stores because agents find it easy to interact with those kind of systems. So he also brought a Game Boy that was running Omarchy. @NixFred: Oh, that's awesome. @thetundeo: Yeah, which I found very funny. So those were the three main speakers. I just talked about the work I did to build a plugin to configure my cameras, etc., etc. @thetundeo: So no plugins. I'll start in there. @thetundeo: All in all, that's it. @ncfrontiersman: That's wonderful. So my question is, outside of the talks, what was the atmosphere like? For those of us that haven't been to an Omarchy meetup, what's it like? @ncfrontiersman: You kind of get a little early, you sit down, you grab a snack or a drink or something. Are people sharing with each other what they're building? @ncfrontiersman: Are they saying, "Hey, come look at my laptop. Look what I've got going"? @thetundeo: Yeah. Yeah. Because I think nerds are nerds in the end. @thetundeo: And I think we tend to be a bit shy to start conversations. But then when you find one or two people, you then just talk to those one or two people throughout the meeting. @thetundeo: So even I had to come out of my comfort zone and be talking to everyone around. But people did get talking. @thetundeo: And there was a guy who had a game that he'd built, and he was showing it off to a few people there. @ncfrontiersman: I love it. @thetundeo: After the talk. But the Game Boy was a hit. The Game Boy was such a hit. @ncfrontiersman: Yeah. Now I got to go get one of those. Is it one of those retro, remade ones? @ncfrontiersman: Or is it not an actual original Game Boy, but like, "Oh, man, I need to get one of those"? @NixFred: On a Game Boy, if you think about it, you've got the arrow keys, and you've got three other keys. So on a OS that has gotten away from mouse, it still makes sense. Pretty cool. @thetundeo: Yeah. Yeah. It was a good meet. @thetundeo: So next time will be in two months. And I want to get to Denmark, to Copenhagen tomorrow to see how they run theirs over there and hopefully talk David into coming for the next London one. @thetundeo: So that's my game plan for this week. @ncfrontiersman: Wonderful. Well, thanks for the update, man. I'm so glad it went well. @ncfrontiersman: And it's one of those things, it's going to be a long tail on it. So you may see it drop a little next week because I'm used to run meetups all the time. @ncfrontiersman: But on the long tail, I bet the thing is going to grow and grow and grow. And there's just something about the Omarchy community of builders and tinkerers. @ncfrontiersman: And let me help you. Show me what you did here. @ncfrontiersman: I just got a feeling it's going to be huge. So I appreciate what you're doing. @ncfrontiersman: Keep going, man. @thetundeo: Thank you, sir. @ncfrontiersman: All right. @NixFred: Great leadership, Tundy. That's not an easy thing to do in your business. Busy business owner. @NixFred: We're taking this on too. So we appreciate it, man. @ncfrontiersman: Let's see. Anybody else want to speak up? You don't have to have anything cool to share. @ncfrontiersman: You can just introduce yourself. Let's see. @ncfrontiersman: Kathryn, I'm just going to start calling names. And if y'all want to. @NixFred: I'm Steve Basti. I'm calling Basti. @ncfrontiersman: Basti. Yep. Let's see. @ncfrontiersman: I see Kathryn, Basti, PC Callout, Andre. @NixFred: Come on, Kathryn. @ncfrontiersman: Everybody. Let's see. Victoria. @NixFred: We got one wonder. @ncfrontiersman: All right. Victoria, what's going on? @NixFred: There he comes. @ncfrontiersman: You have the mic. @NixFred: Yep. You got to unmute me. And while he's unmuting, everybody follow everybody. @NixFred: I'm following everybody's caption. You got to unmute yourself, Victoria. @ncfrontiersman: All right. And then after that, we got the real dark horse as well. Okay, Victoria. @BlackOpsREPL: Hi, everyone. So yeah, my name is Victorio. I'm a programmer from Italy. @BlackOpsREPL: I live in Milan. And I use Linux since about 20 years. @BlackOpsREPL: And I was always an Italian window manager user. So for me, it was basically very easy to start using Omarchy because it's the first distro that is beautiful and that has a setup stock, so to speak. @BlackOpsREPL: I asked for the mic for one moment because I have noticed that there is no meetup for Italy. Like there to be a meetup in Milan. @ncfrontiersman: Yeah. @BlackOpsREPL: So basically, I'm just starting to signal it because I've decided it just today that I would like to host it if any of that sponsors it because that's the most difficult part. I will try to ask around. And also, maybe some Italian people are listening to me right now. @BlackOpsREPL: If you want to DM me so we can organize it and propose it if we make it because it would be very interesting. So that's basically the reason. @ncfrontiersman: Wonderful. Yeah. I mean, I think that's kind of how it happened with Tundy. @ncfrontiersman: Tundy was like, "You know what? I think I might want to do " and then now he's talking about the four different talks that happened and how well it went. @ncfrontiersman: So I think you should do it. I think you'll have the backing that you need. @ncfrontiersman: Just kind of step out on faith a little bit, and I bet you'll be met. So I really do. @ncfrontiersman: I think that's awesome. I think there's probably a lot of Italian developers and non-developers alike that are using Omarchy. @ncfrontiersman: I know when I did my little tiny weather app, I got a lot of people asking, "When do you support the weather radar in Italy?" And I was like, "Oh, wow. @ncfrontiersman: Yeah. I guess a lot of people." @ncfrontiersman: So yeah, I'd say go for it. I think it's great. @BlackOpsREPL: Thank you. I will. And then additionally, I hope this is a PR. @BlackOpsREPL: Since my main activity nowadays is developing a planning problem solver-like application. It allows you to solve any planning problem like scheduling, routing of vehicles. @BlackOpsREPL: And I would love it to be on Omarchy. That's also why I proposed to Lee. @BlackOpsREPL: I want to also spread the word about that. It's an interesting type of AI that is different from the generative one. @BlackOpsREPL: And so just to say, I have two PRs in. I don't know if they will get accepted, but I will also do user applications for Omarchy with this. @BlackOpsREPL: So that will come too. So this is what I propose, things that I would like to do. @ncfrontiersman: Yeah. So many ideas, so little time, right? @BlackOpsREPL: Yeah. @ncfrontiersman: I think we all have that problem now. It's like, "What do we focus on?" Well, thanks for speaking up. @ncfrontiersman: And yeah, I hope good luck with kicking off Omarchy Milan or Omarchy Italy or whatever you want to call it. I think it's going to be awesome. @BlackOpsREPL: Yeah. Milan would already be a grid issue for Italy. Italy could be the next step. @ncfrontiersman: Yeah, yeah. Gotcha. Okay. @ncfrontiersman: All right. Well, let's see. @ncfrontiersman: I've got a few people lined up. I don't know if I'm going to do this in the right order, but Chris, I think you're up. @NixFred: My man. What's up, brother? @OnTheLiftAI: Hey. Can you guys hear me good? @NixFred: Oh, yeah. @OnTheLiftAI: Perfect. It's not too loud. I'm just trying not to use my headphones. @OnTheLiftAI: Awesome. Well, basically, I just want to introduce myself. @OnTheLiftAI: My name is Chris. My main focus in life right now has been in the automotive space and bringing AI to automotive dealerships as far as diagnostic tools, all sorts of cool stuff that we use every day. @OnTheLiftAI: But one thing that Omarchy has done for me is it's not just an operating system. And I made a post about it earlier thanking you, Wes and Nix and TechLuddite about helping me get through that mindset of slow it down, build it right, build methodically. @OnTheLiftAI: And Omarchy, like I said, it's more than just an operating system. It's a whole community. @OnTheLiftAI: You can just feel the love and the passion from DHH and everybody in this group. It's just a wonderful place to be. @OnTheLiftAI: It's a nice place to clear your mind. And no, I just really appreciate these Sunday meetups. @OnTheLiftAI: I absolutely love it. I just want to say thank you. @NixFred: Amen. Go ahead, Wes. @ncfrontiersman: No, I was just going to say thank you for being here. Thank you for your presence. And I'm all about slow. @ncfrontiersman: AI, it's one of those things where you always have this feeling, "Oh, I could be kicking another agent off. I could be spending more tokens or building." @ncfrontiersman: But honestly, the best things come from the moment you step away and clear your head and think, "What's something I could solve? What's something that's bothering me right now?" @ncfrontiersman: And then you go back and tackle it. Because you'll find plenty of things to be busy about, but there's a difference between being busy and making progress. @ncfrontiersman: So I love it. @OnTheLiftAI: Exactly. Exactly. You start to focus on the features rather than the issue you started off trying to fix. @ncfrontiersman: Right. And AI makes you think that what you're doing all the time is amazing because it's like an amplification, right? So you have to be very careful with that. @ncfrontiersman: And so you got to maintain that control, that agency about yourself. And it's wonderful. @ncfrontiersman: I'm not anti-AI at all. I think it's a wonderful tool. @ncfrontiersman: But it'll lead you down any path. @OnTheLiftAI: Yeah. If I eat rocks, will it get rid of my headache? Yes. @OnTheLiftAI: I'd absolutely try to eat this. But no. @OnTheLiftAI: There's still some thinking you need to do here. @ncfrontiersman: Yep. Yep. Totally. @ncfrontiersman: But yeah, I love it. And I hope now, and I'm sure you are, you can start to help other people too. @ncfrontiersman: We should all be building each other up. That's the whole point here. @OnTheLiftAI: Exactly. It's a community. It's family. @ncfrontiersman: Yep. That's right. @NixFred: Enjoy your post, Chris. Keep it coming, man. @OnTheLiftAI: All right. I'm not going to slow down in that area, but I'll slow down when it comes to building. @NixFred: There we go. @OnTheLiftAI: All right. Thank you, guys. @NixFred: Thanks, guys. @NixFred: All right. Who got up next? @NixFred: Dark horse. What do you got, man? @NixFred: Good to see your face. Jeff: Hey, everyone. Can you hear me okay? @NixFred: You bet, brother. Jeff: Great. Well, hey, I want to reiterate those sentiments. Thank you guys for hosting these Sunday socials. Jeff: I was on last week just as a listener, but I pretty much followed everyone in the conversation. And boy, did I get a lot of information this week from all you guys. Jeff: You're great. So it's really appreciated. Jeff: I'll keep this pretty short because I know there's a lot of people that want to speak. But my real name is Jeff, and I'm a retired engineer. Jeff: I used to live in the Silicon Valley for about 25 years. And now I'm out in eastern Arizona. Jeff: And needless to say, there's more pine trees out here than technology. @NixFred: That's not bad. Jeff: I tried to start an Omarchy meetup. We had our first meeting Thursday last week. And it's just at the local Starbucks over here in Sholo, Arizona. Jeff: And by the way, the story is true. Sholo was named after a drawing of cards over property rights. Jeff: And some guy drew a deuce of clubs, and that's how Sholo got its name. Jeff: So I've been using Linux since the mid-'90s. I don't know if anyone remembers the Yggdrasil distro, YGGdrizzle distro. Jeff: Anyway, it was on like 20 floppy disks. And boy, that was fun days back then. Jeff: So yeah, up here, it's mostly country life, not much tech. But it's been great to reach out and see you guys here and learn about it. Jeff: I did two things I just want to share this week. One is I bought a brand new PC off of Facebook Marketplace. Jeff: New to me. I guess it was a used one. Jeff: And I got it for real cheap. I got it home, put Omarchy on it first thing, which installed perfectly and fast. Jeff: And I did see a lot of spam in my system log. Jeff: I just dropped. Yeah. @ncfrontiersman: My phone must have dropped it out. The screen went white. And yeah, we'll get there. @ncfrontiersman: All right. Maybe just one more minute and everybody will hop back in, and then we can get back started. Jeff: Sure. Where did we cut off? @ncfrontiersman: Let me think here. You were talking about Linux distro, and then after that, you said you had built. Jeff: A PC? @ncfrontiersman: Yeah. Yeah. That's right. @ncfrontiersman: You bought a PC. Yeah. @ncfrontiersman: Got a good deal on it, and it installed right away. That's about where we left off. Jeff: Okay. Cool. @ncfrontiersman: All right. Let me make Fred a host. Yeah. @ncfrontiersman: You can go ahead and start. Jeff: Yeah. A riser cable. Anyway, AI pointed to that. Jeff: And so sure enough, I bought a new one off of Amazon, and it fixed it. I mean, I would not have known to look for the things that AI was looking for. Jeff: And I was just using the standard big pickle model. And I was just amazed. Jeff: And that's probably why I got the PC for so cheap. It must have been crashing on the previous owner. @ncfrontiersman: I love it. I love that in this new world, things don't have to go to waste. You know what I mean? @ncfrontiersman: I think there's plenty of goodwills with some things sitting on shelves that need to be bought and brought back to life. Jeff: Yeah. And I'm mostly a local model kind of guy. I mean, I have a Gemini app, Gemini subscription at five bucks a month. Jeff: But I'm retired, so I'm trying to keep my costs down. And it's more of a hobby than for work. Jeff: But I do have an M4 Mac Studio, 128 gig, running a Qwen 3.8 27B model. And that's pretty good. Jeff: And so just last night, there's a YouTube channel called the Linux Saloon with Kieran and a bunch of guys. And they had a guy on there that had an open-source CAD program called BREP, B-R-E-P. Jeff: I can post a link if people are interested. Anyway, it has an MCP server built into the CAD. Jeff: And as a test, I thought, "Oh, this is going to be fun," because I do a lot of 3D printing and stuff. So I created a and I'm kind of new to AI still. Jeff: I'm still trying to understand skills and all that. But I created a file, a skill file, all about Legos. Jeff: What are the dimensions of a Lego? What are the wall thickness? Jeff: How tall are the stubs on a Lego? That kind of thing. Jeff: So I created a skill set. And now I had AI. Jeff: I was using the Qwen model on my Mac to Omarchy. And I had it direct the CAD to generate a set of eight Lego bricks. Jeff: And it did it perfectly. I exported it as an STL file and then printed it on my Bamboo Studio 3D printer. Jeff: And I was just sitting there in my chair, scratching my chin, going, "Wow, that is pretty crazy." @ncfrontiersman: Wow. Yeah. Yeah. @ncfrontiersman: That's awesome. I mean, yeah. @ncfrontiersman: I mean, people use 3D printers to make replacement parts for appliances and gadgets you got laying around. So it'd probably be even easier now with something like that. Jeff: Yeah. And I was just using the Legos as just to test things out. But I'm sure you can tell it more complex parts, and it'll look it up on the web and figure out how to create it. @ncfrontiersman: So cool, man. Jeff: But yeah. So anyway, that's pretty cool. And that's where I'm at now. Jeff: I'm really loving Omarchy. I wrote a few plugins. Jeff: I got to polish them up a little bit. They're my first attempts at it. Jeff: But I did something called Radio Garden. So that Radio Atlas plugin that was so popular. Jeff: There's a website called radio.garden. And so I created a plugin that just drops down a little web viewer of that site. Jeff: And so it's just like Radio Atlas, only color with more channels. And so that's pretty cool. @ncfrontiersman: Love it. Jeff: But yeah, I'm having a lot of fun. And like other people have said, I really enjoy the community. Everybody's really cool. Jeff: Let's keep the train rolling. @ncfrontiersman: Yeah. Let's do it. Let's do it. @ncfrontiersman: Well, thanks. It's nice to meet you. Jeff: Yeah. Thank you. @ncfrontiersman: Yeah. All right. Well, let's see. @ncfrontiersman: We got time for maybe one or two more. Tim, I think you're up. @tim_sonner: Yes, sir. Yes, sir. Mic check. @ncfrontiersman: I can hear you. Sound great. @tim_sonner: Awesome. Well, yeah, I want to say great job, Jeff, just picking up. That was like we didn't even miss a beat. @tim_sonner: And yeah, thanks, everybody, for being here. This is my first Sunday social. @tim_sonner: I just happened to see it in my feed and was like, "Ah, if I have time, I'll drop by." And just awesome. @tim_sonner: What I really love about Omarchy is this community, right? And I think I've been using Linux for like 20-plus years on and off, right, as like a basic user. @tim_sonner: I've done a lot of blue-collar work. I just recently got into kind of the more tech field in like 2022. @tim_sonner: But I've always been using Linux personally. And so I've distro hopped a lot. @tim_sonner: I've installed Linux on a ton of different OSes or a ton of different hardwares. And so I have a lot of experience with that. @tim_sonner: And I was at work, I don't know, like six weeks ago, I've been using Omarchy, right? So it's like a week after Quattro came out. @tim_sonner: And I heard some guys I'd seen it in the news feed, and I was like, "Oh, that's kind of cool. I might want to check it out." @tim_sonner: But some of the guys I work with, some of the younger guys, right, are talking about it. And I'm like, "I know Linux. @tim_sonner: I think I know Linux." And I'm like, "Well, maybe I should try it out." @tim_sonner: I've never used a tiling window manager. I've never used Hyprland. @tim_sonner: I've always used GNOME. And anyway, so I think that what really got me into Omarchy and kind of Omarchy pilled was the ease of installation, right? @tim_sonner: I mean, I followed the standard, throw it on an ISO, boot, install. And it was just like within two minutes, I'm like in the OS. @tim_sonner: And the main friction for me, having not used a tiling window manager before, was learning the key bindings. But once I got those 12 key bindings down, it's just I'm still a little bit rusty on it, but it's a great window manager. @tim_sonner: And I think that that's kind of like the selling point for a lot of people is I love this repurposing potatoes kind of mentality that we have. And I think that that's a strong selling point for the Omarchy movement. @tim_sonner: And yeah, I just wanted to just, yeah, say that. That was what really made Omarchy stick for me, I guess. @tim_sonner: I use Linux. I use Ubuntu like 40 hours a week for work. @tim_sonner: I use personally Omarchy because it was just like the install was so frictionless. It was so good. @tim_sonner: And I was like, "This is awesome." And then so about that same time, right, I'd used Grok a little bit. @tim_sonner: I hadn't really been on X that much. So about that same time, it's like, "Okay, I jump on X. @tim_sonner: I start using Grok more." And then it's like I see the community around this. @tim_sonner: And I'm like, "This is awesome. I found my home. @tim_sonner: I found my people." And all of this kind of happened, catalyzed all at once. @tim_sonner: And so it's just awesome. So just keep doing what everybody's doing. @tim_sonner: I'm a very simple user, right? I feel like there's all these plugins that solve very niche things. @tim_sonner: And that's a beautiful ecosystem, right? It's like the ocean. @tim_sonner: There's just a little there's a niche for everybody. And I love to see people finding that. @tim_sonner: And yeah, just keep it up. Keep doing what we're doing. @tim_sonner: I think we're on a good pace. @ncfrontiersman: Amen to that. That's awesome. Yeah. @ncfrontiersman: The key binding thing is interesting. And I see Porsche requested. @ncfrontiersman: So you're up next, Porsche. But the key binding thing, at first, I was like, "I don't know if I can do this," point and click for years. @ncfrontiersman: But I said, "I'll give it a day." And then about a day into it, all of a sudden, I'm like, "How in the world am I remembering these key bindings?" @ncfrontiersman: It's almost like second nature. It's like, "Oh, I'm just going to open a browser. @ncfrontiersman: Oh, I'm going to open a terminal up. Oh, I'm going to open X up." @ncfrontiersman: And it's just instant. There's no latency. @ncfrontiersman: And I'm all about it, so. @NixFred: And it's also how disposable the windows are now for me. I just do one thing, open it, do it, close it, bang. @ncfrontiersman: Yeah. You don't have these long-running tabs and things. Yeah. @ncfrontiersman: Well, it's great to have you. Nice to meet you, Tim. @ncfrontiersman: And let's see. Porsche, you're up. Porsche: Hello. I'm so happy that we're. @NixFred: I am too. We have women in it. This is awesome. @NixFred: Thank you so much for joining. Porsche: Well, that's not why I'm happy. @NixFred: Well, that's why. Porsche: I love talking about Linux. I started using Linux almost 20 years ago. I was living in China, and I couldn't find a legal copy of Microsoft. Porsche: And it wasn't like I wanted Bill Gates to get his money, but I wanted a stable system. And I was tired of buying fake Microsoft operating systems. Porsche: And so that's when I got into Ubuntu, and that's when I got into Mint. But along the way, I became a software developer. Porsche: And so many folks, so many places I worked use Mac. And Omarchy has given me an excuse to put Linux on my computer, and it's been great. Porsche: This is my first time using tiles as well and using multiple windows. I'm wondering, so I actually have Hermes Agent on Omarchy. Porsche: How are folks using AI tooling and agents such as Grokbot and Hermes Agent on their Omarchy machine? @ncfrontiersman: Yeah. That's a great question. Anybody want to you want to have a quick one-minute, two-minute tell us how you're using agents? @ncfrontiersman: I mean, I can tell you how I am. I'm sure Fred can, but I want to hear from other people. @ncfrontiersman: If you want to, raise your hand. Let's see. @ncfrontiersman: There's got to be somebody. Jeff: I could chime in real quick. @ncfrontiersman: Yeah. Yeah. Go ahead, Jeff. Jeff: Hey, Porsche. This is Jeff. Yeah. Jeff: So I don't know if you heard before, but I use agents to help me debug my system. Or say you want to change the appearance of your UI, if instead of square corners, you want round corners. Jeff: You can just use I use OpenCode. That's the one I'm most familiar with. Jeff: And you can just tell it, "Hey, on my windows, round the corners." And it's smart enough because it has the skills. Jeff: There's skill files already on Omarchy that tells it how to interact with the Hyprland window manager. And so it does a lot of things like that. Jeff: I'm still trying to get it to use things like Gemini and stuff and to do things in parallel. Probably Wes or Fred can do that better. Jeff: But I see a lot of people using multiple agents at the same time, and they're doing parallel tasks, which is just mind-boggling. @ncfrontiersman: Yeah. Well, you don't have to do that. The jury's still out on whether that actually makes you more productive, in my opinion. @ncfrontiersman: But I'm a little bit of an old school in that regard. But yeah, that's cool. @ncfrontiersman: Let's see. We got Colin. @ncfrontiersman: Colin? @cfaulkingham: Yeah. Can you hear me? @ncfrontiersman: Yeah. @cfaulkingham: Yeah. I just want to echo that the built-in skill. @NixFred: Speak up, brother. @cfaulkingham: With the built-in skill for Omarchy, using agents is so refreshing on these computers compared to a Mac. I mean, it understands, because of the skill, what you can do. So I have done extensive debugging. @cfaulkingham: I just recently installed Kua Hyper, and it was on the it was messing around with Hyprland and causing problems with different machines. And I had one of my agents debug it, and it fixed it. @cfaulkingham: I mean, that's what's so mind-blowing about this whole thing is the integration with the skill. I would love to see it go even further. @cfaulkingham: I don't know exactly what, but just sort of make it the core around Omarchy because it just works so well. And of course, I'm a software developer, and I do all my coding. @cfaulkingham: And I use multiple different agents to do that. So I like to sort of bounce around. @cfaulkingham: The CLIs are, I think, a lot easier to use in Omarchy, from OpenCode to Grok to Grok Build to Claude Code CLI or Codex CLI. But yeah, so I just wanted to say that the built-in skill is probably the killer feature here. @ncfrontiersman: Yeah. Yeah. It's the built-in skill plus the fact that almost all of the apps and programs and packages that are installed are configurable with open clear TOML or config files, which is completely different than a Mac or Windows, right, where you're having to go mess around and remember the old what was it called? @ncfrontiersman: It's been years, the registry. Yeah. @ncfrontiersman: Or just all of the PList files and all that. With Omarchy, they're just clear text, and you just edit it, and the thing reloads. @ncfrontiersman: So it's perfect for agents. @cfaulkingham: I mean, that whole agent plugin that is bundled with Omarchy. I've modified mine. I just asked it to add Grok and DeepSeek. @cfaulkingham: I mean, that's the great thing. Yeah. @cfaulkingham: Yeah. Any of the plugins you don't like the way it does whatever? @cfaulkingham: Fine. Change it. @ncfrontiersman: Yeah. That's right. That's right. Jeff: Yeah. I didn't even know what a skill file was. And in your home directory, there's a .agents hidden folder, and inside there is skills. Jeff: And you can go in there and look at them. And like Wes was saying, they're human-readable. Jeff: I think they're just Markdown files, right? MD files. Jeff: And you can look at them, and you can enhance. I haven't had the courage to enhance any of them yet, but you could add to them to give it even more skills, right? Jeff: Pretty cool. @ncfrontiersman: Yeah. Totally. It's a whole new world. @ncfrontiersman: Well, let's see. I think Tech Luddite, you're up. @ncfrontiersman: And then Fred, is there anybody else? @NixFred: I don't know. We'll see. Let's hear from Tech Luddite. @ncfrontiersman: Okay. @gh_TechLuddite: Hey, everyone. I'm very late to the party, but I'm glad I got to hear from a few people. And as always, I'm bursting and want to say a million things. @gh_TechLuddite: But I just wanted to reply to Porsche's question. I am not a Hermes expert. @gh_TechLuddite: I have three different installations in different ways. But I think maybe the most important thing for me to share about Hermes in my very amateur place is just know that it does things on its own, by design. @gh_TechLuddite: It does more that you don't explicitly tell it to. Presently, I'm using was five, now six harnesses because I'm trying to learn the harnesses individually, and I use them co-working on individual projects or separately in projects on dedicated windows. @gh_TechLuddite: And it is not efficient, but it's how I like to work. Now, I am needing to get into automating some things and using local models more. @gh_TechLuddite: So I'm going to try a proper setup. That's my third installation of Hermes. @gh_TechLuddite: It's meant to be typical, but I have dedicated a separate working folder to it because I feel the default installation location with Omarchy is just not I'm not okay with it. And again, this is probably me just not knowing enough, but something I wanted to share. @gh_TechLuddite: And every one of my three installations and all the research and testing I've done is kind of like by design and intended for you to do much more and have that kind of carry out on its own. Whereas often with a harness, especially if you have good system instructions or system prompt, if you have that access to the backend, you can be more firm. @gh_TechLuddite: They're soft guardrails, of course, as always when a harness has a lot of control. Okay. @gh_TechLuddite: I'm going to stop now because I just want to talk forever. That's all I want to say. @gh_TechLuddite: Hermes does a lot. Be careful where you put it or spend some time learning what it does on its own. @gh_TechLuddite: That's my advice. Porsche: So I've been working with Hermes for almost a month now. So are you getting the bots or profiles to huddle? And are you using the Kanban feature? Porsche: That's actually what I'm testing right now while I'm listening to you guys. I'm actually testing the Kanban feature where it actually carries out tasks on its own and creates sub-agents. Porsche: It's pretty cool. @ncfrontiersman: Oh, that sounds cool. @gh_TechLuddite: That sounds amazing. And I saw the Kanban. Thank you for mentioning that because I don't know if that was a recent release, but I saw it on a feed today, and I want to look at it. @gh_TechLuddite: And I say it does a lot automatically. I'm overly paranoid. @gh_TechLuddite: It's like the memory thing that it does. Command code does a lot of paste building and puts things in places that may not be exactly where you want it, or it might go in places that you may not want it to go. @gh_TechLuddite: That might be a better way to say what I far fewer words to say what I wanted to convey. Hopefully, that's it. @ncfrontiersman: So for those that haven't used Hermes, Hermes is like open cloth sort of, but better, I've heard. Is that true? It's like you install it on your computer, and then it runs as a service, and you can give it access to do certain things autonomously, kind of like Grokbot. @ncfrontiersman: And then you can talk to it through Telegram or WhatsApp, or is that close to what it is? Porsche: Yeah. I have my Hermes agent attached to Telegram, which is amazing. So I have a Hermes agent. Porsche: It is attached to Telegram, and I'm also hosting it on a private server, well, on Hostinger. So I have it on the cloud. Porsche: And just being able to talk to it in different I can talk to it in Hostinger. I can talk to it between Omarchy and Mac and Telegram, and the conversation persists. Porsche: So that's pretty cool. I'm experimenting with different sessions, and I like getting the different bots together and huddle. Porsche: I was able to create an HR bot, which giving the right amount of permission, making it very permissive and giving it a soul, I was able to get an HR bot to create other bots for a project without me prompting it. So I've been experimenting it a lot. Porsche: And yeah, I make videos about this stuff too. Kanban's been a lot for me to get my head around, but I've been having a lot of fun. @ncfrontiersman: So in that instance, you kind of work like a virtual project team, and you're like, "Hey, here's some work. Let's split it out into tickets." And then you create virtual cards, and then the Hermes agents picks them up and works on them. @ncfrontiersman: And there's a feedback loop for each one where it reviews it. Is that kind of what the point is? Porsche: Yeah. I like to be super lazy. So I gave it this afternoon, I wanted it to create a presentation on domestic cats in the United States. Porsche: So I love cats. So it was able to take one ticket, and it split it into four different tickets without me doing anything. Porsche: And so I'm actually looking at the final product now, but it was able to project manage on its own. And yeah, no, I think it's pretty cool. @ncfrontiersman: Yeah. The interesting thing is it's honestly like context management. If you zoom out a little bit, what it's really doing because you could do it all in one session with Fable 5.1 or Opus 5.5 and be like, "Hey, do all this stuff," and then it goes off and figures it out. @ncfrontiersman: But this is forcing it to think about things in small iterative tasks that I think you get a much better result that way. So it's kind of cool how it forces you into that context engineering aspect of AI. Porsche: I don't force it at all. @ncfrontiersman: Well, yeah. I mean, yeah. Yeah. @ncfrontiersman: You're right. Porsche: Yes. I don't force it at all. And you can fine-tune things. Porsche: For instance, if the different bots are in I call it a huddle. When they're in one meeting room, you can tell it to give it five different chances to come up with a solution for a problem because if you make it unlimited, then they can actually burn all your tokens. Porsche: Each bot can have its own model. It's pretty cool, and I really like it. @ncfrontiersman: That's cool. Now I'm going to have to go play with that sometime. That sounds cool. @ncfrontiersman: Well, thanks for sharing, Porsche. It was nice to meet you. @ncfrontiersman: And yeah, I hope you stick around. And let's see. @ncfrontiersman: Snowy, I think you're up next. Snowy: Hello. Can you hear me okay? @ncfrontiersman: Yes. We sure can. Snowy: Yeah. Live from Scotland. @ncfrontiersman: All right. Snowy: Yeah. Oddly enough, I use Hermes quite a bit. And I was just going to chime in on what Porsche was saying, that it's really good if you have something that you need to split up. Snowy: So I have a comms manager that manages my social posts, and I have a researcher, and I have a reviewer, and I have a coach that tells me when I've not moved enough or if I've eaten too much and things like that. They're all done through there. Snowy: But the Kanban is really useful because you can set it off on different tasks, and one task, it'll then go and split it up, and it'll give it to the different bots. And you can have different bots with different models. Snowy: So you can have a researcher bot that's specifically using a model that is particularly good for research and things. So yeah, I do love that. Snowy: And the fact that I can just do I can just tell my Omarchy laptop just to say, "Look, make Super Shift H, my Hermes shortcut." So now when I press Super Shift H, Hermes opens up, and then I can stick it at my scratch. Snowy: And then anytime I'm doing anything, I can just click back to Hermes, see how it's getting on, and then move on. I really love the combination of that with Omarchy because the two of them seem to go really well together. Snowy: Yeah. I just wanted to chime in as soon as I've been. Snowy: This is the second time I've been to one of these and I haven't spoken yet. And I didn't want to miss the opportunity to actually say hello to all you lovely people when I have the chance this time. @ncfrontiersman: Well, hello. It's nice to meet you. And yeah, hopefully, you'll come back. @ncfrontiersman: We're going to do this as often as we can, once a week. So that's great, man. @ncfrontiersman: Let's see. Anybody else want to speak that hasn't spoken yet? @ncfrontiersman: Give you just a minute. Oh, yes. @ncfrontiersman: Linux Gamer. Gav: Hello. Yes. My name's Gav. Gav: I'm an IT infrastructure and operations director for a global pharmaceutical tech company in the UK. I live on a boat on the South Coast. Gav: I have interacted with Fred and Wes a few times on X. Hope you're all good. @ncfrontiersman: Yeah. We're all good, brother. Gav: Yeah. All good, man. All good. Gav: Thank you. For Porsche, though, so I do flit. Gav: My main harness was open code, to be fair, until actually yesterday, which I did start using Hermes a little bit. And I flip in terms of providers between Alarma and OpenCode Go, part of that's due to privacy, etc. Gav: But I guess the most relevant point most recently, I've set up my entire home lab, or I guess you could call it a boat lab, on two mini PC servers running NixOS and a Raspberry Pi running a PiHat for a NAS. So I used Omarchy specifically on my main laptop to set all that up for me. Gav: I'm hosting my own around 24 apps now. Again, some of you will have seen some of that on my feed probably because I've shared some stuff. Gav: Now, in terms of we talk about Kanban and ops and stuff there. So I run a daily ops standup with my agents that essentially run through my entire home lab stack, tell me what my situation is on my 3-2-1 backup strategy, any errors in the logs, networking, apps that are running, etc. Gav: So that's kind of what I'm using Hermes and OpenCode for. And I guess more generally, I'm a gamer. Gav: I kind of gave it away with the name, right? So I've been on Linux probably a couple of years now, and I was a serial distro hopper. Gav: So CachyOS, NixOS on my laptop as well. Started with Bazzite, actually. Gav: Didn't like the lockdown kind of method on that approach, so I moved on very quickly. That was probably my first unlike Ubuntu for most people. Gav: So I also hated the original version of Omarchy. Not going to lie. Gav: I'm a minimalist. However, I've moved to Omarchy Quattro from its launch, and I am now stuck on it. Gav: I am no longer a distro hopper. And yeah, it's ticking all the boxes from my minimalist needs as well. Gav: As soon as you remove those initial opinions. Gav: So yeah, no, I'm loving it. Hopefully, that's useful. @ncfrontiersman: Wonderful. Welcome. It's great to hear from you. @ncfrontiersman: Stay safe out there on the water. Gav: Cheers, man. Cheers, man. I'm particularly looking at your weather app just to keep an eye on those rain. Gav: I need some wind information on there. @ncfrontiersman: Yeah. Well, it's coming. There's a guy that did a PR for wind data, so I just got to find time to look at it. @ncfrontiersman: But it's coming for sure, so. Yeah. @ncfrontiersman: And there's a disclaimer, right? It's just for entertainment purposes only. @ncfrontiersman: My lawyers tell me I have to say that. I'm just kidding. @ncfrontiersman: No. @ncfrontiersman: Right. All right. @ncfrontiersman: Well, let's see. I think somebody else. @ncfrontiersman: Yeah. Kozha, you're up. Kozha: Yeah. Guys, hi, everybody. I'm really sorry. Kozha: I'm a bit busy since I'm completely reinstalling my Omarchy. Kozha: I asked in the X chat, "What's up? Why I can't?" Kozha: It sent me into a reboot loop. And then I got this little tiny text in the upper left corner, which said, "Yeah, no key for this password found." Kozha: And yeah, all the help said, as well as David also kindly answered me, they asked me if I tried to encrypt my hard drive, but I never, ever did to try to do this. Since I was already afraid to make this 2014 MacBook even slower, right? Kozha: And so yeah, right now, I'm on a full reinstall, and I need to get all my programs back here and so on and so forth. Kozha: How about you guys? @ncfrontiersman: Yeah. So something happened. It rebooted, and then it's like it wanted you to enter the password to decrypt the hard drive, but you're saying you never encrypted it. Kozha: Yeah. The thing what I suspect is since we have, for some reason, over this weekend, an incredibly unstable internet Wi-Fi here. And I installed it all over Wi-Fi, which is kind of stupid, I know, but I lacked the LAN adapter here. Kozha: Yeah. So anyways. Kozha: And yeah, now I got to do it. I have to do it all from the beginning, right? @ncfrontiersman: Yeah. @ncfrontiersman: Well, I tell you what. Yeah. @ncfrontiersman: If you want, we can talk through it more offline. I'm happy to help you too, so. @ncfrontiersman: And I'm sure others here would be willing to help. But that sucks. @ncfrontiersman: I know that feeling when you lose it and you have to reload. Kozha: Yeah. It sucks. But at the same time, of course, I don't want to bother 100 people now and to give me tech support, right? Kozha: This is not why I showed up here. I really had a great talk with Fred and David yesterday, and this was at my time here in Germany. Kozha: We were talking from 1-ish in the morning until 5 in the morning, and it was incredible. I'm too old to go out and party. Kozha: I don't do this anymore. But obviously, I'm old enough to stay awake until in the morning to talk about Omarchy. @ncfrontiersman: That was a lot of work. Kozha: And I'm also. @ncfrontiersman: Yeah. Kozha: Yeah. Sure. Sure. Kozha: I'm totally in. I'm totally in. @ncfrontiersman: Cool. Kozha: Great. @gh_TechLuddite: Wes, or Nix, do you mind if I reply to one thing? I'll make it very short. Shorter this time, I promise. @gh_TechLuddite: All right. Let me put my arm down here. Kozha: You don't even need to, Fred. Really, I enjoyed every second. I enjoyed every second. Kozha: As I told you yesterday, it was really a bliss, truly. And I don't say this out of kindness. Kozha: I really, really mean it. I mean, I'm German. Kozha: Germans don't say anything out of kindness, right? @gh_TechLuddite: Well, thank you. The bit of advice I had was check if and you may be past it already, but for others or future uses, you could check outside of that boot process if the disk is actually encrypted. And if it's not, the first place I would probably go in this type of scenario that I believe we're talking about is AC session logs. @gh_TechLuddite: So you get into the disk and go find whatever happened in the last five sessions. And you don't even have to analyze it yourself. @gh_TechLuddite: Just have an agent do it because that might tell you the whole story there. It felt like you didn't do anything. @gh_TechLuddite: You probably didn't. Could have been a Hermes install. @gh_TechLuddite: Could have been whatever. Kozha: Yeah. I tried to update Omarchy this afternoon, and I suspect that it got kind of stuck right in the middle and just broken it somehow, right? @gh_TechLuddite: There should be a checksum process after downloads in all of this with Omarchy, but I haven't vetted that myself. But sure, bad downloads, bad internet absolutely can cause big problems too when you're doing updates. Kozha: Yeah. Yeah. For sure. Kozha: For sure. Right. Kozha: But Omarchy itself is mind-blowing, really, because I wasn't around for Omarchy 3 or even Arch Linux in general. But when Omarchy Quattro came out, it gave me the chance as a noob to enter the Linux world. Kozha: And yeah, and I will never go back. Right now, literally, every computer in this household is exclusively running Omarchy. Kozha: My girlfriend asked me to do her laptops, to put it in dual boot mode. But after 24 hours later, now already, it was Omarchy exclusively because she was also such a fan. Kozha: Yeah. It's really the I think this is the OS of the future, right? Kozha: An OS which your agent, your personalized agent, will care about for you, unlike the other extreme, which in my mind is Windows. And Windows is like when you buy a Windows computer, it's like you buy a baby. Kozha: You need to, "Oh, I need to enter a virus. I need this. Kozha: I need that." And no, you can't go home now because I need to update. Kozha: And yes, you will wait for my update. And yeah, this is incredibly bad. Kozha: And also how slow it makes computers. I never expected these old computers to even function anymore at that pace. Kozha: And Omarchy does it left-handedly. Kozha: It's really I'm really mind-blown still. @ncfrontiersman: I love that description. It's like training wheels, right? Windows for baby, right? @ncfrontiersman: Just need to hold your hand as you go through it. But Omarchy is like, to be honest, the great thing about Omarchy is even if you don't have a lot of experience with Linux or whatever, it kind of ramps up with your level of ability with agents. @ncfrontiersman: So it's wonderful. Kozha: Now, Wes, I'm sorry. You broke up now. And I'm on 5G with my phone here right now, but even 5G seems like somehow to be corrupted today. Kozha: A very bad internet day in Cologne, Germany, obviously. So it must be my Wes, I'm sorry. Kozha: I couldn't hear what you said. Can you come again if it doesn't bother the others? @ncfrontiersman: No. I was just saying I liked how you talked about Windows being like the baby operating system, right? Can't hear me? Kozha: Dang it. @ncfrontiersman: Can anybody else hear me? Gav: Yeah, you're there, brother. @ncfrontiersman: Okay. All right. Well, we'll hear from you next time, Kozha. @ncfrontiersman: It's nice to hear from you. I'm glad you're joining us. @ncfrontiersman: I think. Kozha: Yeah. Now I can hear you again. Thank you, Wes. @ncfrontiersman: All I was saying was I liked your analogy about Windows and being like holding your hand like training wheels for a baby. Yeah. And then I was just saying that Omarchy kind of does that too, but also when you're ready, you can go as deep as you want, and it's not going to stand in your way, so. Kozha: Exactly. Exactly. You set it up one time, and even the setup, it doesn't feel like a burden. Kozha: It feels like a pleasure because I know I just type in a short phrase. I even dictate it if I don't feel like typing. Kozha: I dictate a short phrase, give it to my agent, and my agent does the rest. And yeah, it is. Kozha: It truly is. @ncfrontiersman: Well, it's great to hear from you. We have one more slot, and I think it's Tyler that asked to speak. But thanks, Kozha, and we'll talk to you next time. @ncfrontiersman: And Tyler, you're up, and then we're going to close out. @ncfrontiersman: Let's see. Tyler, you there? @ncfrontiersman: If you are, you got to unmute, I think. @ncfrontiersman: Okay. Well, maybe we'll get Tyler next time. @ncfrontiersman: Fred, any oh, nope. There he is. @ncfrontiersman: Okay. Tyler, you're up. @tylermayberry: Yeah. I just wanted to introduce myself. I missed the first couple of ones, so I just want to say hi. @tylermayberry: I'll be around. Name's Tyler. @tylermayberry: Glad to be a part of this. @ncfrontiersman: Tyler, you are completely out of control with all the software that you're shipping. @tylermayberry: I try. @ncfrontiersman: No, you don't try. There is no trying. You're doing it. @ncfrontiersman: It's amazing. @tylermayberry: Appreciate it. @ncfrontiersman: Yeah, brother. What's one thing you've built you want to share, Tyler? @tylermayberry: Right now, I am making I named it Ibara, and it's basically something where you can connect all of your PCs and hand them over to your agents and control them from your main Omarchy machine and connect to all the other Omarchy machines with one simple flow. If it's connected to Tailscale, you just install a plugin, press a button, and then you can hand it off to any agent or control it from any machine. @ncfrontiersman: And can you desktop control it too, or use it like a? @tylermayberry: Yeah. You can desktop control it, hand it off to your agent. It basically works just like GraphBot, but it's for all Omarchy machines, your own hardware. @ncfrontiersman: Oh, I love it. Love it. Well, share it in the chat, and I'm sure we'll all go check it out. @tylermayberry: I'm trying to get it released tomorrow, so. @ncfrontiersman: Okay. Yeah. All good. @ncfrontiersman: All good. Well, everybody, well, thank you, Tyler. @ncfrontiersman: And then everybody, thank you for joining. I always enjoy these conversations. @ncfrontiersman: Try to find some time before the week starts. Just sit down, have a quiet moment, plan your week out. @ncfrontiersman: It'll go well. Don't be in a hurry. @ncfrontiersman: Maybe it's the southern nature in me. Just go slow, and you're not going to miss out on anything, right? @ncfrontiersman: And then try to have fun. Fred, anything you want to say? @NixFred: Yeah, man. I want to thank a couple of our speakers today. Of course, Lee did an amazing job. @NixFred: A lot of folks spoke up. I'd like to really thank Porsche. @NixFred: She added a lot to the conversation today. That was pretty amazing. @NixFred: Of course, Tech Luddite, always there. @NixFred: Omarchy is an operating system, so what? The community is what makes this thing important. @NixFred: So get out there this week. Reach out to somebody. @NixFred: Help somebody. Be that person that changes their thoughts. @NixFred: Be that person that lifts them up. It doesn't cost you anything to do it. @NixFred: Help an old lady across the street, and when you get her over there, put Omarchy on her laptop. Make sure you follow everybody in here. @NixFred: We've got a band together as a community. Bring a friend next week to this space. @NixFred: Speak up. Wes and I just happen to be the host, but you're the star. @NixFred: We really appreciate you being here. Back over to you, Wes. @ncfrontiersman: Yeah. Yeah. Everything you said, agree with. @ncfrontiersman: All right, y'all. We'll see you next week. @ncfrontiersman: Same time, same channel, right, like Batman used to say. All right. @ncfrontiersman: See you later. @NixFred: Later, guys. Everybody out there, appreciate you. Go have a great week. @NixFred: I just said appreciate you. Want to hear the lines. # EP 04: Omarchy Sunday Social: The One Where Wes Touched the Kernel Part of "Omarchy! Omarchy! Omarchy!", the weekly Omarchy X Space. Every Sunday, 3pm EST, live on X. - Recorded: Sunday, October 4, 2026, 3pm EST - Length: 105 minutes - Film (Sunday Builders Club, 4 min): https://omarchyspaces.com/films/ep04.mp4 - Speakers: 13+ - Hosts: @ncfrontiersman, @NixFred - Listen: https://x.com/i/spaces/1pKdRDvlMqdJW - Post on X: https://x.com/NixFred - Web: https://omarchyspaces.com/ep/04/ ## Summary (as posted on X by @NixFred) Omarchy Sunday Social, Episode 4: the one where Wes touched the kernel Wes and I just happen to be the hosts...YOU are the star!!! Recorded Sunday, October 4, 2026. An hour and forty five minutes, 155 tuned in, 11 people came up to speak, and every one of them was building something. Listen: https://x.com/i/spaces/1pKdRDvlMqdJW Full write-up and the complete transcript: https://omarchyspaces.com/ep/04/ WHO WAS IN THE ROOM @ncfrontiersman Wes Grimes, host, OmaStorm. Me nixfred, co-host. In the order they spoke: @NotJustShaking Lee Shand. @letsbuildanyway Portia. @omarchyftrou Katherine Prawl. @thebytorsnowdog Snowy, live from Scotland. @TheAITradeoff Ivan. @Kingmk3r King Maker, Austin. @flyawayzephyr60 the Super Friendly Aviator. @tim_sonner Tim Sonner. @calledtocnstrct Called To Construct. @maralcbr Marcelo Alcantara, Australia. @hicsfh Chris Hallas, the man behind Atmos. Omarchy put up a $100,000 bug bounty on HackerOne and hired a head of security, Mehmet, who spoke at the London meetup. The foundation keeps raising, now over $13 million committed. The plugin marketplace closed 1,423 issues in a single week. DHH is building an agents panel because he figured out most of us run more than one agent. You can buy a laptop with Omarchy already on it. And somebody walked into an Apple Store and found a MacBook running Omarchy. Wes on the money: "Okay, we've got all this money. What are we going to do with it, how are we going to steward it well?" His answer is that the bounty is the right kind of answer. There has been criticism that Omarchy is less secure because it is built so fast with agents, and a $100,000 bounty is putting the money where the mouth is. WES TOUCHED THE KERNEL This week Wes shipped full Apple Studio Display support on Omarchy Mac, his first contribution with PRs in both the kernel and the OS. He does not like talking about himself, so I made him. It started with a very expensive monitor sitting in a closet. On Omarchy Mac the display lit up and nothing else worked: not the webcam, not the speakers, not the Thunderbolt hub, not the brightness. He upgraded to Opus 5.5, put the display on the kitchen table, and said "All right, Opus. Let's figure this out together." The wild part is how they figured it out. The Studio Display is not a normal monitor. In his words it is almost like a mini iPhone inside the monitor, and you have to talk to it differently. So Wes and Opus set up a tracer on his work MacBook running macOS, watched how macOS changes the volume and the brightness, reverse engineered the conversation, and carried it back to Linux. The fix lives in the Aurora kernel the M team maintains, and it is C. His instructions to the agent: "This is a kernel that works great. It's fast. Make the changes surgical. Don't break behavior for others." Webcam first, then audio. The moment lo-fi came out of the monitor's speakers he knew it was real. The repo makes this safe. Your test kernel installs as a second boot entry, so you boot into it, same OS, different kernel, and your main entry is never touched. If it goes bad you reboot into the old one. He tested every port, because unplugging from the right side port and plugging back in froze the display. Chris on the M team cut a new Aurora release and the team tested it together. Brightness was the hard one. Everything Opus expected to work did not, because the display is not a normal DisplayPort monitor. When the brightness finally jumped to 100 percent he said yes out loud. The last step was the OS side: the kernel now exposes brightness through brightnessctl, so the keyboard keys just call it. Friday afternoon, Friday night and all of Saturday. "Slow is smooth, smooth is fast." He did it alongside Joshua Warren and the M team, and his read on the whole thing: "It sounds scarier than it is." On agents: Wes runs Codex and Opus 5.5 side by side, builds with one and has the other try to prove it is broken. His line on keeping an eye on usage: "It's almost like cell phone minutes back in the day." LEE @NotJustShaking Lee Shand, who told us last week what Omarchy is for, came back with hardware. Waveshare sent him a cheap touchscreen panel, about $70 for the 10 inch, and he is wiring it to Omarchy over wireless so a person can press a big button instead of remembering a key chord. Super Space becomes a button. Make the buttons as big as you need. For people who are shaky, or who cannot hold the shortcuts in memory, that is the whole ballgame. He says it is part one of several, and it does not have to be that brand. We are not affiliated with the company, use it at your own risk. Lee is up to a secret project for Omarchy Different Minds, stay tuned on that one! PORTIA @letsbuildanyway Portia came up to ask what she called the stupid questions, and they were exactly the right questions. What is the agents panel actually, and is it apps or APIs? She runs Claude Cowork, DeepSeek, the Fable API, and mostly the Hermes harness with several agents inside it. Wes cleared it up: today the omarchy.agents plugin shows your usage behind a little robot in the bar, and the default agent is just the key binding plus the "Click to diagnose with AI" notification that opens your agent on the system logs. @dhh 's panel is the next step, making it easy to move between agents. Her win of the week: she connected Obsidian to Hermes, and having a single source of truth the harness can read was a big step up. KATHERINE @omarchyftrou Katherine Prawl got on a mic for the first time on this computer and launched a newsletter in front of us: Omarchy for the Rest of Us, at omarchy-ftrou.com. She installed Omarchy a month ago, says she is not a practiced developer, and had a Grok bot build the whole newsletter backend in 48 hours. The writing is hers. Wes, for everyone who has been buried in AI walls of text: "I love AI, but I don't like the way it writes." Go subscribe. SNOWY @thebytorsnowdog Nearly 9pm in Scotland. Snowy is a civil engineer, trained to put pipes in the ground so water can go through them, not software. This week he shipped his first Omarchy app and submitted four reports to the new bug bounty, with his agents doing the finding and walking him through HackerOne. One came back as a duplicate, three are rated high and waiting in the queue. He ran the Apple MLX data check on his M5 Max MacBook Pro for the M team. He is 50 and his line was "Where has this been for the last 30 years of my life?" He also built OmaMap, an open source spatial data viewer. The GIS software at work was not running well, so he built a proof of concept, then made Codex and Claude fight over it: one builds, the other hunts for bugs, swap, repeat. The work version is sitting with his IT department, "where good ideas go to die." So he converted it into an Omarchy app and put it on GitHub. He ended the week with spare tokens and is offering them to anyone who needs PRs. Wes on what that means: operating systems used to be built in an ivory tower where you signed in blood to see the source. Now the people who want to fix it get to fix it. "It's like a true community-built operating system in the most true way." IVAN @TheAITradeoff Ivan picked that up and ran with it. He is not a programmer, and Omarchy is the first place his ideas did not hit a wall. He put Omarchy on an Evo X2 a week ago and on an M1 Air last night, and overnight he built a MeshCore plugin. His local machine and his local models now take messages over a MeshCore mesh radio network, no cell signal, no internet. He tried the same thing on an M4 Mac months ago and gave up. Picture an outage, a node in your pocket, and your models at home still answering. Wes called it the alternate internet from Silicon Valley. It is headed for the marketplace in a day or two. KING MAKER @Kingmk3r Howdy from Texas. King Maker is running an Omarchy meetup in Austin this Friday at a coffee shop, signups on Luma. Five people so far, on ACL weekend, in the rain. There will be door prizes for the oldest potato and the best potato setup. If you are near Austin, go. The handle is Game of Thrones, not politics. THE SUPER FRIENDLY AVIATOR @flyawayzephyr60 A chief pilot for a private charter company who was a software engineer first. He saw Wes post that he was running low on tokens, messaged him, and offered to build an aviation layer for OmaStorm, because he wants it on the wall of his ops room someday. Wes said go for it. Yesterday he made his kids, two and four, a princess game and a planes and trains game in half an hour. "This is like the first time in 20 years that computers have been fun again." Wes's advice to him and to everyone: put your stuff in a repo, even private, even if it is garbage. His agent knows that once a project gets past the third prompt, it is time to make a repo. He also left a tip for anyone stuck on a work Mac: AeroSpace with Omarchy key bindings, plus Karabiner holding Caps Lock as Super. Wes has been running exactly that on his work Mac since the Aviator told him. TIM @tim_sonner Tim Sonner brought a workflow worth stealing: record a demo of your PR, post it on X, and put the link to that post in the PR. Maintainers see it working, everybody else gets to follow along. He has been live streaming public building with Victorio and wants more people doing it. He runs Omarchy on a 2020 Intel MacBook with the T2 chip, has been working out the fingerprint reader on it, and offered help to anyone with that hardware. Today he posted a gist for me to hand straight to my agent. That is collaboration now. His last word: do not let fear get in the way of contributing. CALLED TO CONSTRUCT @calledtocnstrct Decades of software development, came in just before Omarchy 3. Yesterday he sat his daughter, who has four kids and has never written a program, in front of an Omarchy laptop and had her type a game idea into a text editor for 15 minutes. He handed it to Grok Build, they talked it through for half an hour, and out came a single HTML file. The kids swarmed the table, then the adults took turns. Last week he asked each grandkid for their favorite thing, Pokemon, ice cream, Monster Trucks, built each one an Omarchy theme, and taught them Super Space and Super W. Best week he has had in a long time. His idea for the room is bundles: a few apps, a couple of plugins, and skill files so your AI knows how to use them, with an intro markdown on top. What would an aviation bundle look like? Wes loved it: a builder's kit for high schoolers, like the Mark Rober kits that come in the mail, or AI native kits for industries stuck on expensive custom software nobody can maintain. He could see it in Omarchy itself. There is a discussion up on the Omarchy GitHub, so go upvote it and comment. He is also helping with triage and packaging PRs. I asked him one personal question: did he get that kid at Disney World feeling watching their faces? His first computer was an original IBM at 11, and his father, a math teacher, had him plot equations on screen in graphics mode. He had nobody to share it with then. "And now my daughter, who's middle-aged, has four kids, never written a program in her life... within half an hour, she had a game that all four of the kids could play." MARCELO @maralcbr Calling in from the east coast of Australia at 6:26AM(!) on a Monday morning holiday. Marcelo is a principal AI engineer and architect on the Omarchy M team, and tokenomics is his day job. He had receipts on the week in AI pricing: the DGX Spark's memory cut in half to 64 at the same price, which is a price doubling, OpenAI cutting the credits on its $200 Pro plan, and models that seem to get quietly quantized weeks after launch with no transparency about it. Then the Mac news. On the Aurora kernel, M1 and M2 are done except Touch ID, which is in final testing. People are on the GPU for M3 through M6, the Neo is about 95 percent there, and the goal is every model. And for the people asking: this is not Asahi. Asahi does not accept AI written code, and the M team does, with real engineering discipline around it. Wes backed him up: using AI is not vibe coding. His lab: one laptop driving three others, wired so they can be cold booted to retest kernels, plus an x86 server so every Mac change gets checked against regular installs. He is also building OmaPlay, his own Plex now that Plex wants a monthly subscription, about 75 percent done with transcriptions and resume across episodes. And he is testing a multi GPU server for 0xSero's local AI work, with MLX on the Mac planned later. CHRIS HALLAS AND ATMOS @hicsfh Chris started with Omakub, DHH's Ubuntu take, before Omarchy. He tried Linux many times and never had the time to make it livable. DHH and Ryan took that away. "The malleable OS is not just something we say. It's true." He built Atmos, the control panel for a mouse person who cannot remember every shortcut. Sensors and charts, your key bindings laid out visually, hardware, drivers, disk, power, and Omarchy's own hooks, where you can see what runs on an update and add your own. Plus the Oma file: export your setup as readable markdown that Atmos can re-apply, or that you can hand to an LLM and say set my machine up like this. I drop Atmos down like a Quake terminal on a Super key and I use its exports to clone and back up my machines. He called Atmos a happy accident. The idea was always the easy part, now you can go from "I wonder" to running. Chris volunteers alongside Wes in the group having the conversations about where config like this goes next, and he thinks GM's Flee is headed for mainline. With Omarchy's own kernel, he wants Atmos reaching into deep kernel settings. Wes said OmaStorm was an accident too: Labor Day weekend, "Let me see," and then you are on the other side. TOP 10 SIGNS YOU HAVE BEEN OMARCHY-PILLED 10. You found a MacBook at the Apple Store already running Omarchy. 9. Your laptop has a better travel life than you do. 8. You reach for Super on your work Mac. 7. Someone told you Omarchy is just dotfiles and you agreed, because those dotfiles have millions of dollars behind them. 6. You converted a coworker before the first talk at the meetup. 5. You keep an Omarchy resurrection queue of dead laptops in the garage. 4. You learned every shortcut from a game and now play Hyprland like a Stratocaster. 3. Your Steam Deck runs Omarchy and the back buttons scroll. 2. You put a Windows XP wallpaper on an old MacBook running Omarchy, just to mess with people. 1. There is a $100k bounty for bugs in Omarchy and you are suddenly very interested in testing. ASKS ON THE TABLE Go to King Maker's Austin meetup Friday if you are anywhere close. Subscribe to Katherine's newsletter, Omarchy for the Rest of Us. Upvote and comment on the bundles discussion on the Omarchy GitHub. Watch for Ivan's MeshCore plugin in the marketplace this week. If you have an Apple Silicon Mac, the M team wants your data. Snowy already sent his. Everybody: follow everybody in the room. We are small and we all like the same things. NEXT SUNDAY Same time, 3pm EST. If you did not get to speak today, we are sorry, X Spaces dropped a few of you between request and stage. Come back. Help an old lady across the street, and when you get her over there, put Omarchy on her laptop. ## Transcript Machine generated. Speaker labels come from the transcription tool and are reused for different people; the summary says who is who. @ncfrontiersman: One, two, three. Hello. @ncfrontiersman: The co-host, can you hear me okay? @NixFred: I can. You might want to turn your gain down just a tad. How about me? @ncfrontiersman: Yep. How about now? Is that any better? @NixFred: Yeah, that's a lot better, brother. @ncfrontiersman: Okay. @NixFred: I'm not coming at you. I just want you to sound great. @ncfrontiersman: No, that's good. @NixFred: Fair enough. Look at that, we already got Rook and Tim. @ncfrontiersman: Yeah. @NixFred: That's a sign of it's going to happen today, man. I'm excited. @ncfrontiersman: Oh, yeah. Yeah, it is. Yeah, Tim and Rook, if y'all share, for people to join, retweet it, get people in here. @ncfrontiersman: We've got too many stragglers the last few weeks that come in late, so. Hope y'all are doing good today. @NixFred: I'm hitting all of my peeps. I also hit that big chat group. @ncfrontiersman: Oh, yeah. @NixFred: If you want to do that too, Wes, that'd be amazing. @ncfrontiersman: Yeah. @NixFred: That's where we'll get some beef. @ncfrontiersman: I'm nervous. @NixFred: You know what? If Paul, Rook, and Tim are here, that's enough for me, brother. We got a quick. @ncfrontiersman: Yeah. Yep. Paul, I hope you're doing good. @ncfrontiersman: Give me a thumbs up if you're doing all right. @NixFred: Yeah. Rook and Tim, if y'all hear us. @ncfrontiersman: Let's see. Well, I saw a thumbs up from them earlier, so I think they're. @NixFred: Yeah. @ncfrontiersman: There we go. There we go. @NixFred: There we go. @ncfrontiersman: Rocking rolling. Very good. Yeah, I'm talking to you from I got my Apple Studio Display hooked up. @NixFred: Oh, yeah. Well, I've got a whole thing I want to talk about, about your shipping the Apple Studio Display Brightness Control on a MACHI M Series. So I got a whole thing about that. @NixFred: And I think Josh would help you out, did he not? @ncfrontiersman: Yeah. Yeah. I've been working with Josh and then this guy. @NixFred: As well. @ncfrontiersman: And BI9Kahana. @NixFred: Yeah. Yeah. Scott Jones. @NixFred: Yeah, man. I do my research, brother. @ncfrontiersman: Yeah. We're on the M team together, so. @NixFred: Yeah, that's amazing. @ncfrontiersman: But yeah. @NixFred: Let's get there. We got Ivan joining. We're going to be live well, we got a minute, but you're the host and I'm the co-host, so you let me know when you want to get running. @ncfrontiersman: Okay. Yeah. We'll give just a couple more. @ncfrontiersman: Yeah, Ivan, I don't think I've seen you before. Welcome. @ncfrontiersman: Good to have you. @NixFred: Yeah. Everybody follow everybody. Sorry to interrupt you, Wes. @NixFred: I won't do that in this one. @ncfrontiersman: No, that's fine. Information overload. Looks like maybe a new one. @ncfrontiersman: Not sure. @ncfrontiersman: Lee's here. @NixFred: My man, Lee is here. Sweet. @ncfrontiersman: Lee is here. If we were in person, I'd give you all a handshake. @NixFred: That's right. I called Snowy a woman last week. Well, I didn't. @NixFred: My agent did. So apologies, Snowy. @NixFred: I don't think he likes me. That's all right. @NixFred: Well, like my tweet says, "People often ask me, 'Fred, I don't like you.'" @NixFred: Oh, man. All right. @NixFred: Let's get the screen situated here. @ncfrontiersman: All right. @ncfrontiersman: Well, welcome for the folks who dropped in. Let's see. @ncfrontiersman: Jacob, we got is that Jeff? I think that's Jeff. @ncfrontiersman: Yep. @NixFred: My name, Jeff. @ncfrontiersman: My name, Jeff. My name, Jeff. @NixFred: I don't think anybody got my joke when I was saying my name, Jeff. @ncfrontiersman: I got it. @NixFred: Oh, you did? Okay. That means. @ncfrontiersman: I couldn't think about anything else when they came out with it. @NixFred: Oh, okay. So it's not. Well, all right. @NixFred: Perfect. @ncfrontiersman: Yeah. No, is that still a thing anymore? Is that already sold? @NixFred: No, no, no. I mean the Jeff thing. You know. @NixFred: Just like anything else. And Omarchy's going to be one of them too. @NixFred: It hits the internet core and people go crazy for it and it fades away. My notes say that the Omicon Foundation got to $13 million committed funding. @NixFred: Oh, they added $13 million from let's see. All right. @NixFred: Folks, you're here in the pre-show where we just figure our stuff out. So apologies. @ncfrontiersman: Yep. Portia, welcome. Let's see who else we got. @NixFred: Portia. @ncfrontiersman: André. We got called to construct. Lots of folks hopping in. @ncfrontiersman: All right. Well, I'll tell you what. @ncfrontiersman: Let's go ahead and get started. Chris has already hopped in. @ncfrontiersman: Daniel. So yeah. @ncfrontiersman: Fred, it's another one. How many are we at now? @ncfrontiersman: Is this four? @NixFred: This is four, sir. @ncfrontiersman: Number four. All right. @NixFred: Which means it's a month. And man, a month seems like it seems like a year and a half ago, man. Especially since I got to know you, man. @NixFred: I've been getting to know you a little bit better. And you're such a good person, brother. @NixFred: This community is full of them. Portia's been interacting with me a whole lot this week. @NixFred: Lee's been interacting this week. And it's just been nice, man. @ncfrontiersman: Yeah. I agree. It's beautiful to watch it blossom. @ncfrontiersman: Basky, how you doing? I see you hopped in. @ncfrontiersman: But yeah, it's been wonderful. So yeah, let's get this train going. @ncfrontiersman: I want to make sure we give folks the time to share and ask questions of each other. We can talk a little bit about what I've been working on with the Omarchy M team and the MAC stuff. @ncfrontiersman: And we can talk a little bit more about how folks' dev workflows are going. Because I know that was a popular topic last time. @ncfrontiersman: We were talking about Hermes and Kanban and just want to dig into that a little bit. And yeah, I mean, Fred, how are you doing, man? @ncfrontiersman: You got any. @NixFred: I'm doing great, man. Our fourth episode. We're moving right along. @NixFred: Same house rules as always. No politics. @NixFred: No egos. Raise your hand if you want to tell us about what you're building. @NixFred: And if you're stuck, we want to help. I think a couple of the things that happened this week are Omarchy put up a $100,000 bug bounty. @NixFred: They hired a head of security. The foundation keeps raising millions and millions of dollars. @NixFred: The marketplace that Hancore runs closed 1,400 issues. Not PRs, but issues this week. @NixFred: One of the big ones is DHH is building an agent panel. If you saw, he was tweeting out that he thought at the beginning, they just kind of assigned it if you've used Omarchy and every one of you have, you assign a default agent. @NixFred: And he figured out that most people have more than one agent. So he's coding for that. @NixFred: You can now buy a laptop with Omarchy already on it at the private, with a laptop already on it, which is cool. Somebody walked into an Apple store and found a MacBook running Omarchy, which I kind of laughed about and tweeted about a couple of weeks ago, but here we are. @ncfrontiersman: That's awesome. @NixFred: What do you think, Wes? @ncfrontiersman: Well, yeah. So many good things. So a lot of money flowing into the foundation. @ncfrontiersman: I'm sure a lot of people are going to be like, "Okay, we've got all this money. What are we going to do with it, right? @ncfrontiersman: How are we going to steward it well?" Because there's a lot that you could do. @ncfrontiersman: So I think it'd be cool. @NixFred: And money really shows what your real intentions are. So how you spend your money is what you're thinking about. @ncfrontiersman: Yeah. Yeah. That's right. @ncfrontiersman: That's right. So I think things like the bug bounty and hiring some folks full-time to focus on some of these issues, that's great. @ncfrontiersman: Like you said, the head of security. I think that that person, Mehmet, I think it is. @NixFred: Yes, it is. @ncfrontiersman: Spoke at the Omarchy London. So I don't know if Fundy's on, but maybe we could hear about how that went as well. @NixFred: Yeah. @ncfrontiersman: So yeah, the bug bounty. I think that's awesome. There's a lot of well, there has been historically a little bit of criticism about, "Oh, Omarchy, it's not as secure, right, because it's being built so quickly and all that with agents." @ncfrontiersman: But I think that that commitment to that bounty shows the commitment to having a secure operating system. And so putting the money where the mouth is, right? @ncfrontiersman: And so. @NixFred: You bet, man. @ncfrontiersman: I think that's fantastic. And then the plug-in. Yeah, the agents plug-in that DHH is putting together. @ncfrontiersman: The thing I thought was cool about that is, and I haven't looked into it, maybe you can tell me, but there's a way to jump right into creating a plug-in or an app or config right from the agent window now. So in addition to showing the usage that your agents are doing, you can also kick off a prompt right from there to start building, which I think that's brilliant. @ncfrontiersman: Probably not a ton of work to do, but it just kind of connects the whole system together for those that are visual. @NixFred: Yeah, it really does. And the other thing that the goal of Omarchy, there's so many goals, but one of the main ones was to build bridges to help people get off of Mac and to help people get off of Windows. And when people figure out, and we talked a couple of episodes back about the ability to create plug-ins and what you and I created for our first plug-in and how funny they are. @NixFred: I think I remember mine was adding the percentage of the year left on the calendar, and I was blown away by that little tiny thing. And your mind just opens up and people are making more and more complex plug-ins. @NixFred: No longer is it just showing your ping out to Cloudflare to make sure your internet's up. People are making really complex things. @NixFred: One of the things I really want to dig into, Wes, and I know your personality and you don't like talking about yourself, but I'm going to put you on the spot here. This week, you're on the M team for Omarchy officially, and you shipped out Apple Studio Display Brightness Controller. @NixFred: And I don't know if it's your first contribution, but it spans both the kernel and the OS, brother. And you got Joshua Warren. @NixFred: You've got Silicon Forested. You've got @BI9Kahana. @NixFred: I don't know the gentleman's name or woman's name. And so walk us through it. @NixFred: What does it take to get a display brightness fix from this doesn't work at all all the way to a kernel PR, man? That's hot. @NixFred: That's hot. @ncfrontiersman: Yeah. Well, we've talked about this before, but it started with I've got this Apple Studio Display. I've been a Mac fanboy for years, right? @ncfrontiersman: And it's a very expensive piece of machinery just sitting around, and it wasn't really working right. And it wasn't just the brightness controls, by the way. @ncfrontiersman: It was the webcam, the speakers. It's got a Thunderbolt hub. @ncfrontiersman: These studio displays are pretty cool. You just plug one Thunderbolt cable into your laptop, and then you get it all. @ncfrontiersman: And that didn't really work with Omarchy, or Omarchy. So my process was, "All right. @ncfrontiersman: I plug this in. The display popped up, but nothing else worked. @ncfrontiersman: I just upgraded my cloud subscription. I got Opus 5.5. @ncfrontiersman: I got my studio display out of the closet, sat on the kitchen table, looked at my laptop, and I'm like, 'All right, Opus. Let's figure this out together.'" @ncfrontiersman: And so talking to the folks on the M team, I'm like, "Hey, we're doing this big push to get Omarchy Mac and all merged upstream so it's all in one unified repository. @ncfrontiersman: That's coming soon. But the idea is you have this Aurora kernel, which is a fork of Asahi or however you say it, right? @ncfrontiersman: And that is going to make it into the mainstream plus a slew of OS changes like the UI, like the on-screen display, all those types of controls and config. @ncfrontiersman: And so I'm working with Opus, and I'm like, "All right. We got to figure out why. @ncfrontiersman: Number one, I want to hear sound through these speakers in the monitor and what's going on." And so basically, it started with Opus just trying things. @ncfrontiersman: And it was like, "Well, I see that it's hooked in through Thunderbolt, and it's supposed to be exposing as a USB hub, and it should show the speakers as a USB device. It should show the webcam as a USB device, etc. @ncfrontiersman: But I can't figure it out." And so the crazy thing it did was I have another MacBook for work that has macOS on it. @ncfrontiersman: So it had me we worked together and installed basically a listener, a tracer on the Mac, and it watched how the volume control worked, how the brightness control worked. @NixFred: Whoa. @ncfrontiersman: To basically reverse engineer how you communicate with this monitor. Because this studio display is not like a typical. It actually runs like iOS on it. @ncfrontiersman: It's kind of wild the way it works if you've looked into it. @NixFred: Oh, really? @ncfrontiersman: And so it's almost like a mini iPhone or a mini iPad inside of the monitor. And the idea is you kind of have to control it differently. It doesn't work the same way all of the other displays that you plug in with DisplayPort or USB-C. @ncfrontiersman: There's other USB-C displays that work fine with Omarchy. This one's different. @ncfrontiersman: So basically, it went over, it did some research, it figured it out on the Mac. It figured out how to control it. @ncfrontiersman: Then it brought that back over. And I'm like, "All right, M team, where should I put these kernel changes?" @ncfrontiersman: Because it's going to require changes to the kernel, the compiled deep-level code that runs. @ncfrontiersman: You can't just edit the source of on the fly like you can when you want to customize plug-ins and stuff. And so there's this whole process that is pretty cool that's set up in this Aurora repo where you can and it's all written in C. @ncfrontiersman: So it's C code. And it's going through and it's taking the info it reverse engineered. @ncfrontiersman: And then it's making the changes. And I'm like, "Hey, I don't want you to redo everything. @ncfrontiersman: This is a kernel that works great. It's fast. @ncfrontiersman: Make the changes surgical. Don't break behavior for others." @ncfrontiersman: Those are the kinds of things I always do when I work with agents. @ncfrontiersman: And it got to the point where it made some changes. And I did it one at a time. @ncfrontiersman: I got the webcam working first. And then I got the audio working. @ncfrontiersman: I was playing CLI amp, or the CLI amp, however you say it, playing lo-fi. And I'm like, the minute the sound came on, I'm like, "Yes. @ncfrontiersman: This is awesome." And so I got all that. @ncfrontiersman: That was all kernel work. And the way that repo is set up, I know I'm rambling, but. @NixFred: No, I love it. @ncfrontiersman: The repo setup is that you can make those changes, and then it creates a local install script where it'll install it as a second bootloader entry. So you compile the C for the kernel. It installs it as a test one that shows up in the list when you reboot the computer. @ncfrontiersman: So you boot into that. It's your same OS and everything. @ncfrontiersman: It's just different kernel. And then you can start using it and testing it. @ncfrontiersman: And so got that working. And then it was like, "Well, let's test all of the different things." @ncfrontiersman: Because the MacBook's got three different USB-C ports. So there was a bug where if you unplug from the port on the right and plug it back in, it didn't work. @NixFred: Right. That makes sense. @ncfrontiersman: If you switch it to the other port, it was getting locked up and freezing. So we worked through all that, got it pushed up. And then Chris on the M team put together a new build release of the Aurora kernel for us. @ncfrontiersman: And then we all installed it and tested it, and it worked, which was really cool. And then the second step of that was, "All right, we got all that working, but I can't change the brightness of it." @ncfrontiersman: And I'm somebody that I need it as bright as it can be. I don't know if it's because of the color of my eyes or my vision or whatever, but I need it at like 100% brightness. @ncfrontiersman: But it was sitting at like 50%. That was actually harder than all the other things to get to there. @ncfrontiersman: And that's when it went back to reverse engineered again. And everything it thought that Opus thought that should work didn't work. @ncfrontiersman: It thought, "Oh, it should be controlled the same way other display port brightnesses are controlled." But again, because the studio display is iOS-based, it was different. @ncfrontiersman: And it figured it out. We got that in. @ncfrontiersman: And as soon as it's going through all these test iterations, it's like, "Did the brightness change?" I'm like, "No, it's still dim." @ncfrontiersman: And eventually, when I saw that brightness shoot up, I was audibly like, "Yes." @NixFred: Oh, bet. Oh, bet. @ncfrontiersman: And I think it's just kind of a microcosm of how cool it is these times that we're living in that we can take and do this kind of stuff. I don't have a ton of current I have a lot of software experience. @NixFred: Sure. @ncfrontiersman: I don't have a ton messing around with kernels because if you mess that up, you could screw your whole system up, so. @NixFred: Yeah. So let me ask you a question about that. Bleeding edge kernel testing on your only Mac or your primary driver, how much risk did you feel like you're putting into it? @NixFred: Because there's a real danger of bricking the thing. Was that ever something you were worried about? @ncfrontiersman: It was until I talked to the guys on the team and we figured out the way that these changes go in and it installs as a second bootloader entry. It doesn't mess with your main one. So you can always reboot and go back to your main entry and it won't touch that. @ncfrontiersman: So it's kind of like a yeah, it's like a temporary second installed entry that you can go to. Now, if it was messing with the main one, yeah, that could have been risky. @ncfrontiersman: And I mean, I'm sure there could be issues where it could screw up my hard drive or stuff like that. But I have everything backed up. @ncfrontiersman: And I use Git. Dot files are backed up, all that kind of stuff. @ncfrontiersman: And so I mean, I kind of work in this world where my computer is ephemeral. If it goes away, I can stand it back up. @ncfrontiersman: So I'm not too worried about that. But bricking it, yeah, that's a concern. @ncfrontiersman: So that whole ability to have the test entry really makes it pretty easy. And so it sounds scary. @ncfrontiersman: I think what it is, it sounds scarier than it is. And once you get in there and figure it out and work with it and see it happen, it's not too bad. @NixFred: That's right. That's cool. @ncfrontiersman: Yeah. And then really, so that was all kernel work. Kernel is things like battery, display, touch ID, all those types of lower-level things. @ncfrontiersman: And then there's the OS side of things, like the quick shell with the built-in plug-ins and all that kind of stuff. @ncfrontiersman: And so the last step was to make the when you did the brightness on the keyboard. So if you have a Mac keyboard or like I have the Magic wireless keyboard and all that, so you hit F1, F2 to do the brightness, it wasn't controlling it still. @ncfrontiersman: And so that required basically, the kernel exposed the ability to run a command, a CLI command called brightness CTL. And as soon as it did that, then it was super easy to just have the OS control just call that and say, "Brightness control 15." @ncfrontiersman: And it would set it to 15%. @NixFred: Gotcha. @ncfrontiersman: So it was kind of useful to have it in two parts and then it works. And I kind of just wrap up with just saying it sounds like a lot, but a lot of it was really just being patient, sitting there, working through it, and being diligent about testing everything each time, unplugging it, plugging it back in, walking through the steps because this is a scenario where it's not something I'm just going to use. I want to make sure that everybody that uses it has a good @ncfrontiersman: experience as I did. And so there's going to be different ways that they might use it. So you kind of got to sit there and think through all the permutations of it. @ncfrontiersman: And so slow. Like I say, slow is smooth, smooth is fast. @ncfrontiersman: And it took Friday afternoon, evening, and then all day yesterday to get it. @ncfrontiersman: But that's work that should last for a long time. @NixFred: Yeah. @ncfrontiersman: And there's all kinds of users. @NixFred: I don't have the studio. I may pick one up used if I could find one. But I know that all the folks on the call, there's probably half of them that are Mac people and probably half of those have the studios. @NixFred: So as a community, we really thank you for putting that work in, man. And I know none of us get paid for this stuff. @NixFred: We just love it. So your passion's bleeding out of you, bro. @NixFred: And we really appreciate it. @ncfrontiersman: Thanks, man. @NixFred: You want to talk about the marketplace closing 1,423 issues in one week? So I saw a tweet by HandCore. And if you don't follow him, you should. @NixFred: It's @HandCore_Linux. He had a tweet that said, "This week on Omarchy plug-in workplace, 1,423 issues closed, 14 PRs merged, 506 new plug-ins listed, and 569 re-verified plug-in updates." @NixFred: And I know that @TCballard is right in there with him and those guys are putting the work in. Man, that's a lot of issues in one week. @NixFred: Do you think that's even possible a year ago? @ncfrontiersman: No. No, not without an army of people. I mean, I think the tooling we have now, the system that HandCore has put in place has really made it possible. @ncfrontiersman: The ability to use the agents to triage, to apply the labels automatically based on is it does it pass the automatic check? If it does, then that's good. @ncfrontiersman: Put it in the waiting area for a more deep security review. So it's gotten pretty sophisticated as far as the system goes. @ncfrontiersman: But I do think a fair amount of it is also HandCore just sitting there and powering through a lot of stuff at the same time. So props to him for that. @ncfrontiersman: There's what, almost 5,000 plug-ins now? @NixFred: Shame on me for not knowing, but I know there's more than four. @ncfrontiersman: Yeah. @NixFred: Let's go look. @ncfrontiersman: Yeah. @ncfrontiersman: Yeah. Yeah. @ncfrontiersman: I'm curious to know what we're at. @NixFred: We are at oh, shoot. I can't even see it. What a boring thing for me to stall the show with. @NixFred: Sorry about that. So DHH, he put a tweet out that got 2.2 thousand likes. @NixFred: It says, "Working on the Omarchy agents panel, we clearly needed a built-in way to manage multiple subscriptions and an easy way to use those agents." I completely agree. @NixFred: I don't often change my default agent, but it's been something that I didn't even know that I needed because I am lucky enough to have a multitude of subscriptions. It is pretty painful in the pocketbook, but it's worth it for me. @NixFred: I didn't have this many subscriptions before Omarchy. I just had the one. @NixFred: And it's pretty exciting. What do you think about having do you have multiple agents? @NixFred: And what do you think about having the ability to switch between them with a panel? @ncfrontiersman: Yeah, I do. Especially as of late, I've gone back to I have a Codex subscription, so I was using Aster for a bit. And then when they came out with 6.1, Saul, that barely touches the usage on a pro subscription. @ncfrontiersman: And it's good. It's a good workhorse. @ncfrontiersman: Opus 5.5 is in another league, I think. And really, those two together are great. @ncfrontiersman: I think I try to use Opus as much as possible, but if I've got some grunt work or some implementation-based things, I will have Saul do it. @ncfrontiersman: And I think it's also helpful when you have multiple agents. The whole adversarial review thing is important to where you basically build, implement with one, and then you have another one, another model, etc. @ncfrontiersman: Take a look at the implementation and point out all the flaws, right? And it's trying to get that other agent to think about it in this chain of reasoning where it's like, "Okay, prove that this isn't broken" kind of thing. @ncfrontiersman: And so it kind of forces it to go over. So I do think having multiple agents is good. @ncfrontiersman: And it's nice with that plug-in to be able to see your usage across them and kind of monitor it because it's almost like cell phone minutes back in the day. @NixFred: Yeah. That's a great analogy. I love it. @NixFred: I love it. @ncfrontiersman: Yeah. I mean, I don't know how long before we're going to have to do nice and weekends, but we'll see. @NixFred: That's right. That's right. I see some celebrities in the room. @NixFred: I see Jankies out there. I see Lee is out there. @NixFred: I see Michael Gardner's out there. I see Porsche. @NixFred: I see Lee. I see Snowy. @NixFred: What do you want to do next, Wes? @ncfrontiersman: Yeah. Yeah. We got Joshua from the M team as well. @ncfrontiersman: Lots of folks have hopped in. I think I've been talking enough. @ncfrontiersman: Let's open the floor up for some Q&A. And let's do. @NixFred: Look at there. We got Porsche's already requested. What do you think? @NixFred: I want to talk to her. @ncfrontiersman: Yeah. Let's do it. And let's try to keep it one topic at a time and five minutes. @ncfrontiersman: Let's try that. See how it goes. @NixFred: All right. Porsche, I promoted you to speaker. I think you got to accept it and make sure you're not muted. @NixFred: Well, there it is. @ncfrontiersman: Yeah. And then I got Lee behind. Yeah. @ncfrontiersman: So yeah, if you want to talk, go ahead and go ahead and request. We'll do our best to kind of keep a queue going. @NixFred: Yeah. Just be patient with us. And Porsche, we're trying. @NixFred: If you want to request again. And if you don't, just give me a thumbs down. @ncfrontiersman: Yeah. @ncfrontiersman: Yeah. That's fine. @ncfrontiersman: Looks like Lee's on. So we can let Porsche speak after. @NixFred: Yeah. @ncfrontiersman: That works. @NixFred: Oh, there's three now. All right. Lee, what's on your mind this week? @NixFred: Lee, let's keep it to one topic and about five minutes, maybe. And then those that aren't, please be patient. @NotJustShaking: It'll be less than that. I don't want to talk about what we're working on yet, Friggs. I know there's a little bit to go on that, but something along the lines for people with disabilities, cognitive issues, memory issues. @NotJustShaking: I got sent a review piece of hardware from a company called WaveShare. And basically, they're just like iPad things, right, that you can code yourself to do absolutely anything with. @NotJustShaking: So you could have it as your audio control for your house or maybe a thermostat or maybe you wanted it as a weather station. @NixFred: Wow. @NotJustShaking: These things are only like 70 bucks, so they're really cheap. So you don't have to go out and buy an iPad or an Android machine. Anyway, the plan with this is to have it wirelessly or you can have it plugged in, but you don't want that. @NotJustShaking: Wirelessly connect into Omarchy. And I've already done quite a lot of work on this. @NotJustShaking: And it will enable you to be able to or a person to be able to hit the shortcut keys like we have with Omarchy, like super spacebar, super whatever. You would just press a button on the iPad-type device, and it will do that for you, right? @NotJustShaking: And you can make the buttons as big as you want. You can have them as small as you want. @NotJustShaking: So people with hand-eye coordination or maybe they're shaky or maybe they don't have the memory to remember what those keys were, they'll all be set up on this device and you just press the button. Now, that's just part one. @NotJustShaking: There are several other parts that will come along with this as well that will feed into Omarchy. I don't want to speak too much of them at the moment because I'm not entirely sure what they'll be yet. @NotJustShaking: But just as a prime example, that's something I'm working on with that bit of hardware that I think will make a real big difference. And the cost is very low. @NixFred: That's amazing, Lee. Your commitment to helping people with less than full abilities is amazing. And we salute you, my friend. @ncfrontiersman: Yeah. Yeah. That's cool. @ncfrontiersman: So what's it called again, Lee? I missed that. @NotJustShaking: If you go the website, the company is called WaveShare. So whiskey, alpha, victor, echo, and then share. Chinese company. @NotJustShaking: And you're looking for the I think it's like the 10-inch display that they make. @NixFred: Yeah. So Wes and I don't promote or what's the word? We're not connected to that company, so use it at your own peril. @ncfrontiersman: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. @ncfrontiersman: We don't endorse, I think. Yeah. @ncfrontiersman: We do not endorse. But that's cool. @ncfrontiersman: I love those kinds of I love the physical hardware that's kind of like the accessories. And I'm a home assistant nerd. @ncfrontiersman: I've got my whole house set up with Home Assistant. And I have so many ideas that I could use something like that for. @NotJustShaking: Yeah. And of course, it doesn't have to be that device, right? There's hundreds of companies that make that kind of device. @NotJustShaking: I just chose a company that was willing to send me something that was relatively cheap for people to buy. @NixFred: That's cool, man. Well, thanks for stopping by, Lee. It's amazing. @ncfrontiersman: Yeah. Good to hear from you, Lee. All right, Porsche, I think you're up. @letsbuildanyway: Thank you. @NixFred: Hey, there she is. @letsbuildanyway: Hi. Hello. Well, I'm here to ask the stupid questions. @ncfrontiersman: No stupid questions. @letsbuildanyway: That's what you say now. @NixFred: Just a little bit, please. @letsbuildanyway: Wes, you mentioned about the default agent panel, which I actually haven't used yet. So when you say default agent panel, are you using different apps or are you using the API separately? @ncfrontiersman: Well, when I say default agent panel, there's a plug-in for Omarchy that you enable. It's just called omarchy.agents. And really, it's just going to show your usage up in your menu bar. @ncfrontiersman: It looks like a little robot. @letsbuildanyway: Oh, okay. @ncfrontiersman: And then I don't know if it auto-detects your providers. It seemed to pick up Codex automatically, but you might have to tell your agent, "Hey, I want to see usage for Grok or I want to see it for Surfshark or whatever." @ncfrontiersman: But yeah, that. @NixFred: Shameless plug here. My burn bar gives you all the information plus how much time you have banked where you can use your agent more heavily. @ncfrontiersman: Yeah. @letsbuildanyway: Should I ask? Because using the API for me is very different than using the actual application. What I use Claude for, like Claude Cowork, is different than what I would use their latest. @NixFred: Yeah. So when we talked about panel, today, currently, when you install Omarchy, it helps you to pick your default agent. And what DHH figured out was that most people have more than one agent. @NixFred: So he is coding a future panel that he will release that make it easy for you to switch back and forth. @letsbuildanyway: Okay. I've never used that feature before, and that's the only reason why I'm just curious and asking questions. I actually have the documentation open now. @NixFred: I gotcha. So when we talk about using different agents, you said something about application. Mainly, when you do that, you're switching between either the command line Grok or Codex or Claude or OpenCode, Py. @NixFred: There's a million of them. So you really don't use a different application. @NixFred: You just kind of enter the agent a different method on the command line. @letsbuildanyway: Yeah. Because yeah, but I use I don't know if that would be good for I don't know if that would encompass all of my use cases because I use Claude Cowork. Then I might just use DeepSeek. @letsbuildanyway: Then I might just use Fable, the API, and not Claude, the actual Cowork application. So I need to get back on Omarchy and see exactly what they mean by agents. @letsbuildanyway: Or sometimes I use a harness. Well, most of the times, I use a harness like Hermes, where I'm using multiple agents within Hermes. @NixFred: You figured it out already, Porsche. That's it. @letsbuildanyway: Did I? I don't know if I figured it out. @ncfrontiersman: Well, here, I can clear it up. So the plug-in that I was talking about literally just shows usage. That's all it is. @ncfrontiersman: It's just showing you how far you are into your limits and all that. There's also a way to set a default agent, which is really just the key binding. @ncfrontiersman: It's two things. It's the key binding that opens up the AI app like Cowork or ChatGPT. @ncfrontiersman: And then there's when you have a system error that occurs, a little notification pops up and it says you want to diagnose it with your agent, then it tells you which one to use there. So everything else is kind of up to you. @letsbuildanyway: So if I wanted to do some troubleshooting on a bug, could I use an agent within Omarchy? Would that be my default agent if I wanted to debug something within Omarchy? @ncfrontiersman: I mean, yeah, that would be what it does. It's really just a small hook into it. So you get a little notification on the right of the screen, and it says, "Click to diagnose with AI." @ncfrontiersman: And all that does is open up a terminal prompt with your agent that you've defaulted. And then it gives it a prompt, and it gives it the logs to look at, and it just tries to figure out what caused that system error to happen. @ncfrontiersman: So it's just a little. @letsbuildanyway: Would I be able to connect it to OpenRouter? Because OpenRouter has all of my models. @NixFred: So go ahead, Wes. @letsbuildanyway: Yeah. I'm all right. @ncfrontiersman: Yeah. I mean, more than likely, there's a CLI for I haven't used OpenRouter, but. @NixFred: Yeah. Anything like OpenCode can point to it, stuff like that. Can somebody open up the Omarchy Sunday social site and post to it? @NixFred: I can't find it. And let's get the chat started. @ncfrontiersman: Yeah. @letsbuildanyway: Okay. I'm sorry. Yeah. @letsbuildanyway: No, just ask me questions. And quickly, I've connected Obsidian to Hermes, and it's been amazing. @letsbuildanyway: Having a truth of source that works with a harness has been a great improvement in my setup. And I had a chance to play around with Instinct as well. @letsbuildanyway: So that's what I've done today. I'll be this week, and I'll stop there. @ncfrontiersman: Awesome. Yeah. Yeah. @ncfrontiersman: I've used Obsidian for years now. Before even AI came out, it was like a second not a true second brain, but a good way to organize my thoughts and notes outside of whatever app Work wanted me to use or out of the source code and all that. @ncfrontiersman: So I've always enjoyed it. And I think using it with agents, it's really just sharing state. @ncfrontiersman: It's sharing context in a good way. So yeah, that's cool you found it. @ncfrontiersman: All right. Let's see. @ncfrontiersman: I think Catherine is next. @NixFred: Hey, Catherine. @omarchyftrou: Hi. @NixFred: Hi there. @ncfrontiersman: Hey. @omarchyftrou: This is my first time trying to use this computer with a microphone, so I wasn't sure it would work. @NixFred: You're doing great. @ncfrontiersman: We can hear you. @omarchyftrou: Great. Super. Well, I wanted to talk about my new Omarchy newsletter. @NixFred: Let's hear it. @omarchyftrou: I just this past week decided to start a newsletter called Omarchy for the rest of us. It's intended to help people get started with Omarchy because I'm not a really practiced developer or anything. I've dabbled with software for longer than I want to talk about and that sort of thing, but I've never really been very good at it. @omarchyftrou: However, I'm really enjoying Omarchy. I installed it about a month ago. @omarchyftrou: And this past week, I decided that, well, if I'm going to do a newsletter about it, I ought to really dig into it. So I started a Grok bot. @omarchyftrou: And within 48 hours, I had everything in place to run this newsletter. It's incredible. @omarchyftrou: I am really writing Omarchy. I mean, Grok bot helps with it with outlines and so forth, and of course, with the backend, but I'm doing the actual writing myself. @ncfrontiersman: Ooh, I love that. I love it when people are actually writing stuff. I love AI, but I don't like the way it writes. @ncfrontiersman: It's really hard to read sometimes when you get those walls. So I appreciate you writing that by hand. @omarchyftrou: Well, I also wanted to be honest about it. So I have done writing for a long time, and I'm much better at that than I am at coding. So that's kind of my wheelhouse. @omarchyftrou: I wanted to invite everybody to join. It's in my links and in my profile and Omarchy FTROU with or without the hyphen.com. @ncfrontiersman: Omarchy for the rest of us. @omarchyftrou: Yep. I love it. @ncfrontiersman: All right. It's good to hear from you, Catherine. I'm glad you. @omarchyftrou: Thank you. @ncfrontiersman: Spoke. And look forward to reading the newsletter. I'm excited. @ncfrontiersman: So I feel like I'm one of the rest of us too, so. @omarchyftrou: Terrific. @NixFred: Hey, make sure everybody follows everybody. We're a tight group. We're a small group, and we're focused and all have the same drive. @NixFred: So make sure you follow everybody in the thing. And I'm doing my best to follow everybody. @NixFred: I've already been rate-limited, but I'm following as many as I can. What's next? @omarchyftrou: Yeah. I've been rate-limited myself several times, so. @NixFred: That's right. @ncfrontiersman: Yeah. Well, I hope you have a great afternoon or evening, wherever you are, Catherine. @omarchyftrou: Okay. Thank you. @NixFred: Thank you. @ncfrontiersman: Let's see. I think it's Snowy and then Ivan after that. @thebytorsnowdog: Good evening. I'll try and send a little more masculine this week so that Spot doesn't mistake my gender again. @NixFred: Hey, can you really speak up a couple of notches for us? @thebytorsnowdog: Yeah. Sorry. It's just it's nearly 9:00 PM here in Scotland, so I was just keeping my voice down a bit. @thebytorsnowdog: That's fine. It was really just I wanted to say how much I'm enjoying the Omarchy community still. @thebytorsnowdog: I've already been this week. I've put my first Omarchy app up. @thebytorsnowdog: I have submitted four bugs to the Bug Bounty, which is something I never thought I'd be involved in because I'm actually a civil engineer. I trained in putting pipes in the ground to put water through them, not to put software through a computer. @thebytorsnowdog: So it's a bit of a new thing for me. But the one thing I wanted to make a big shout-out to is a little plug-in I found that I've been using extensively called Omarchy Doctor that I believe you may have heard of. @thebytorsnowdog: It's provided me with some serious benefits already. In fact, it's running through a problem as we speak on my Omarchy laptop. @thebytorsnowdog: So thank you, Fred, for that because that is a great thing. And I'm feeling much happier with how my system is running now that I have Omarchy Doctor looking after it for me. @ncfrontiersman: Wonderful. Wonderful. Yeah. @ncfrontiersman: Yeah. I had to check that out. @ncfrontiersman: I heard about that earlier this week. So what's one of the bugs you found? @thebytorsnowdog: Well, I wouldn't take too much credit for it because, like everything else in the world, I didn't find that my agents found it for me. And I had to get my agents to tell me how do I fill in a bug report on HackerOne and how do I do all the different steps in it. But it has submitted now four bugs. @thebytorsnowdog: One has been found to be a duplicate, which is fine. I would rather something gets reported twice than not at all. @thebytorsnowdog: But the other three bugs are deemed high-risk bugs. There's one around sandbox taps can run commands on your host via a notification click. @thebytorsnowdog: One about the Sunshine Admin web app launches a default Chromium profile with ignore certificate errors. And another one about a Pacman repo bug. @thebytorsnowdog: So they're all currently sitting in the queue waiting to be looked at. I was just really pleased to be able to feel like I was providing some benefit by helping other people. @thebytorsnowdog: I did the Apple MLX check. So because I have an M5 Max MacBook Pro, which is my main computer, I could feed into that. @thebytorsnowdog: It's just really nice feeling like part of an actual community and feeling like we are collaborating to try and make this Omarchy thing better for everyone around us. So more than happy to submit PRs if I can help with something. @thebytorsnowdog: I hate to admit it, but I always end the week with spare tokens left. So I'm always looking for ways to burn through some of my codecs or my cloud tokens or whatever. @thebytorsnowdog: So if there is stuff I can be doing on that to help, then I'm more than happy to be doing it. And it's just great that this has become a thing that I've discovered. @thebytorsnowdog: I'm 50 years of age, and I've only just discovered that this kind of thing can happen. And I'm like, "Well, where has this been for the last 30 years of my life?" @ncfrontiersman: Amen. @thebytorsnowdog: It's something I've clearly been missing for all this time because it feels really good to be a part of. @NixFred: Well, Snowy, you're showing how anybody can jump in, just like Catherine just did the last call. And as a civil engineer, I believe you put out OmaMap, which is an open-source spatial data viewer, right? @thebytorsnowdog: Yeah. That was a work project. We used a software called ArcGIS, but my company had the version of it we had wasn't operating very well. @thebytorsnowdog: And I just decided to take it upon myself. Could I make something that works better than this? @thebytorsnowdog: So I created a proof of concept of an MVP product. Like we've talked about as well, I put it through Codex, I put it through Cloud Code, and I got them to fight each other. @thebytorsnowdog: I kind of said, "Look, I want you to go in and check this and look for bugs." Then I'll get the other one right. @thebytorsnowdog: Somebody else says this is good. You go in and check if a bug, see if you can do better than the other agent did. @thebytorsnowdog: So that's sitting with my IT department of work. But anyone who works in a large corporate entity knows that IT departments are where good ideas go to die and then eventually become a bad idea. @thebytorsnowdog: So I just decided, "Can I just take this and make it an Omarchy plugin slash app that people could use?" So I did. @thebytorsnowdog: I just went and blew a couple of million tokens, converting it, and now again doing the Codex. Codex thinks this is a good idea. @thebytorsnowdog: Claude, go away and find out what's wrong with it. And then Claude thinks this is a good idea. @thebytorsnowdog: Codex, go away and find out what you can find that's wrong with it. Did that a couple of times and then put it up on my GitHub for people to check. @NixFred: Wow. Amazing, brother. Well, thanks for dropping by and keep the good fight up, man. @NixFred: You're leading and showing that any of us can contribute, any of us can be a part of this thing, and we love you in the community. @ncfrontiersman: Yeah. Yeah. I want to hear more about that GIS app later. @ncfrontiersman: I'm into maps and that kind of stuff a lot. @NixFred: Never. Never. @ncfrontiersman: Wow. Yeah. I mean, just one comment on I'm just thinking about when you think about how operating systems were built in the past versus how Omarchy is being built, it's pretty wild, the difference. @ncfrontiersman: It's so stark because DOS, Windows, even Mac and all that, it was kind of built inside this ivory tower, right, where you had to have certain credentials and sign off your blood to even look at the source code. @ncfrontiersman: And now it's like and I think DHH is a big part of this. It's like we're going to democratize this, put it out to the people. @ncfrontiersman: And the ones that want to fix it are the ones that get the chance to fix it. And I think that passion takes you so far with doing a good job and with quality. @ncfrontiersman: And then the agents kind of just kind of take you that next step. And so it's just wild to think. @ncfrontiersman: It's no longer in this ivory tower. It's been spread out and spread amongst. @ncfrontiersman: Everybody is just kind of helping out. It's like a true community-built operating system in the most true way. @ncfrontiersman: And I think it's beautiful. So thanks for sharing, Snowy. @ncfrontiersman: All right. Let's see. @ncfrontiersman: Ivan, you're up. What's going on? @TheAITradeoff: Hello, everyone. Can you guys hear me okay? @NixFred: We can. @TheAITradeoff: Sweet. I just wanted to quickly touch on what Wes Grimes was saying about the agent takes you the rest of the way, right? I'm not a programmer or developer, but I've always had tons of ideas that I've had difficulty trying to program. @TheAITradeoff: And I feel like ever since I've kind of really delved deep into trying to understand AI agents' harnesses, I've really been able to take it to the next step. And that's kind of Omarchy and the Omarchy community kind of pushes you into trying new things. @TheAITradeoff: You have an idea, try it out. And the Omarchy distro really just kind of doesn't put any walls in front of you, which I really enjoy. @ncfrontiersman: That's right. That's right. Yeah. @ncfrontiersman: I mean, that's how it should be, I think. I mean, there is an argument for security, right, and some important things. @ncfrontiersman: But I think for the most part, the things we're doing aren't that I don't mean this in a bad way, but they're not that serious. We're building tools that help us. @ncfrontiersman: They're fun to use again and solve problems. And as long as the core operating system itself is solid and secure, we can build on that platform. @ncfrontiersman: And we shouldn't have this fear of, "I'm not an expert. I shouldn't touch it." @ncfrontiersman: No, you should. You should get it. @TheAITradeoff: Yeah. I think getting a good understanding of the security vulnerabilities of letting your agent do everything, I think that should be the forefront for anybody. But I think just something that, for example, that's really so I downloaded the Omarchy distro on my Evo X2 about a week ago, and I've been messing with that, and I've been loving it. @TheAITradeoff: And then I was able to get the M1 Air installed with Omarchy last night. And something that I've built last night and this morning was a MeshCore app, a plug-in that I can use on my computer and connect my MeshCore nodes and my repeaters. @TheAITradeoff: And I've had this idea with being able to message my local machine using the MeshCore network. And I tried building something similar on my M4 Mac a couple weeks, months ago, and it just was giving me so many issues that I just kind of gave up. @TheAITradeoff: But I retried with Omarchy, and I was able to get it running. So now I'm able to message my local machine as well as message my local models using the MeshCore network without any cellular data or internet. @TheAITradeoff: So that's one thing where I'm like, "Yes, that's what I've been wanting." @ncfrontiersman: It's like that TV show, Silicon Valley, right, where they had the internet. @TheAITradeoff: Yeah. @ncfrontiersman: The alternate internet. That's awesome. @TheAITradeoff: Yeah. So I'm thinking in emergency situations where there's an outage and you can't connect to the internet, but you still want to use models. And currently, models that run on your phone just aren't that good. @TheAITradeoff: But if I can always carry a MeshCore node with me in case of some emergency, I need to get some information from my models on my main machine, then I am able to do that. And I'm like, "Okay, that's very freeing." @ncfrontiersman: Yeah. You should write an article or a blog or even just a tweet about it. I think a lot of people would like to hear about it. @TheAITradeoff: All right. Yeah. Thanks. @TheAITradeoff: I'm definitely going to do that. I'm working on the plug-in right now and putting it in the marketplace. @TheAITradeoff: It should be ready to go in here in a day or two. @ncfrontiersman: Sweet. Well, it's good to hear from you, man. @TheAITradeoff: Yeah. Both of you guys, you, Wes Grimes, and Nix, thanks for letting me speak. @ncfrontiersman: You bet, man. That's why we're here. @TheAITradeoff: Have a good day. @ncfrontiersman: You too, brother. All right. I think we got King Maker. @ncfrontiersman: And then after that, we got Super Friendly Aviator who's been helping me with Omastorm, so. @Kingmk3r: Howdy, y'all from Texas. This is King Maker. @ncfrontiersman: What's up, brother? @Kingmk3r: How are you? @ncfrontiersman: Doing fantastic, man. Good to hear your voice. @Kingmk3r: Well, it's good to hear a bunch of enthusiasts. It's a lonely world out there. You mention Omarchy and people are like, "What?" @ncfrontiersman: Yes. @Kingmk3r: So it's good to find like-minded people. By the way, I wanted to just let everybody know that we're going to do an Omarchy meetup here for enthusiasts in Austin on Friday. So that's on Luna. @Kingmk3r: You can go sign up over there. @ncfrontiersman: Man, you must I bet that one's going to blow up because I mean, come on. It's Austin, Texas. @Kingmk3r: We're a total of five people so far, so. @ncfrontiersman: Well, thanks. I think it's going to be one of the things where it might start a little slow, but then once wind gets out and you have a couple, it's probably going to blow up. So be ready. @Kingmk3r: Yeah. I kind of did not really think about this enough before I posted it up because it is ACL weekend and it's raining and it's muddy out there and everybody's in town. And on Friday night at a coffee shop, it's probably going to be impossible. @Kingmk3r: We'll see. There'll be a post. @ncfrontiersman: Well, it's post-March, right? @Kingmk3r: Yeah. We will have door prices there for oldest potato and best potato setup. So if you are in the area, I know you guys are spread out all over the world, but if you are in the area here, we'd love to have you. @ncfrontiersman: That's fun. @Kingmk3r: Yeah. That's kind of all I wanted to say, guys. @ncfrontiersman: Thanks for coming by. Everybody's welcome. And you're proof. @ncfrontiersman: We even allow kings to speak. @Kingmk3r: I think I better change my handle here. It's kind of become a poisoned word. I bet. @ncfrontiersman: Hey. It's all good. Hey. @ncfrontiersman: You are here. @Kingmk3r: Remember Game of Thrones? So that's kind of where it came from, so. @ncfrontiersman: Makes sense. Gotcha. @Kingmk3r: Not speaking to kings. Yeah. Thanks, guys. @ncfrontiersman: Thanks, man. All right. Aviator, what's going on? @flyawayzephyr60: Hey. How are you guys doing? @ncfrontiersman: Fantastic. I'm so good I can stand it. That's how good I'm doing. @flyawayzephyr60: Well, I saw Wes post one day about how he was running low on tokens, and I decided to just shoot him a message and say, "Hey." Well, I guess we started the dialogue with, "Hey, I really like Omastorm. I'd like to see it in my ops room because in real life, I'm a chief pilot for a private charter company." @flyawayzephyr60: And I thought, "Maybe one of these days it'd be cool to see that in the ops room." And then I saw him post that he was running low on tokens. @flyawayzephyr60: And so I said, "Hey, let me add an aviation layer." And he's like, "Go for it." @ncfrontiersman: That's cool. @flyawayzephyr60: It was a lot of fun. @ncfrontiersman: Yeah. I love it. I love that somebody you're there. @ncfrontiersman: We can chat about bugs or issues together. It's great to have you helping out, man. @flyawayzephyr60: Yeah. Well, I mean, this is just such a I was a software engineer before I was a pilot. And this is like the first time in 20 years that computers have been fun again because so many barriers have been knocked down. @flyawayzephyr60: In fact, like yesterday, kind of just for fun, I made my kids a game. I made my daughter a princess game and my son a little they're two and four, a little planes and trains kind of game. @flyawayzephyr60: And it was done in half an hour. @flyawayzephyr60: And I started it and put him in front of it, and they're having a blast. @ncfrontiersman: Can you imagine 20 years ago? I mean, just that we're having these conversations is so wild, what you can do now. @flyawayzephyr60: Yeah. Seriously, not even 20 years ago, like 20 minutes ago, you wouldn't just sit down at the computer and say, "You know what? I would like to write a C++ video game this afternoon." @ncfrontiersman: Yeah. I know. It's wild. @ncfrontiersman: I mean, yeah, it is just it's like the stuff we saw in movies growing up as kids is really happening. So hopefully, the bad stuff like Terminator don't happen, but we'll see. @flyawayzephyr60: Well, that's out of our hands, right? @ncfrontiersman: That's right. Sure is. Well, awesome. @ncfrontiersman: So you're a charter pilot, and you have found Omarchy and Omastorm, and you said, "Let me jump in and start contributing." I think that's the way it goes with all this community. @ncfrontiersman: It's just like you don't need special permission to work on this stuff. You don't need somebody to reach out to you. @ncfrontiersman: Reach out. If any of y'all want to get involved, just reach out to anybody here that's building something or built something yourself and say, "Hey, is there something I could help with or whatever?" @ncfrontiersman: And that's always a good way to get in and get involved. And a lot of times, you make friends, you make connections more than just building software together. @ncfrontiersman: And I think you should not go through life alone. I think community is the way we were designed to be in, right? @ncfrontiersman: And so this is just some of us can't go into these in-person communities as easily for different reasons. And so this is just another opportunity to be in community. @ncfrontiersman: So I think we should keep it up. @flyawayzephyr60: Yeah. Well, that project was a lot of fun. And when I get a minute or two, I might jump in on another one, or I might start something and ask you guys to jump in and help me. @ncfrontiersman: You bet. Oh, yeah. That sounds great. @ncfrontiersman: Well. @flyawayzephyr60: And I might throw those games up on a repo just for the fun of it. Who knows? @ncfrontiersman: You know what? Putting your stuff in a repo, even if you don't share it out, keep it private. It's really important just to it's kind of a stash away to keep your own stuff and have a backup, if you will, so if anything happens. @ncfrontiersman: So I encourage you. I've got I don't know how many repos, and probably half of them are private. @ncfrontiersman: My agent knows if I start working on a project and it gets past the third prompt, then it's time to make a repo. And even if it's garbage, just make sure you save your work. @ncfrontiersman: Come on. Come on. @ncfrontiersman: Put everything you can up into whatever your repo of choice is. @flyawayzephyr60: Yep. That's a good idea. That's a good idea. @ncfrontiersman: Can't wait to play the game, Super. @flyawayzephyr60: All right. Talk to you guys. @ncfrontiersman: All right. Speak from you. Anybody else? @ncfrontiersman: Super was the last one lined up. We got time for. @NixFred: All right. Well, while we're waiting on a topic, I've got the top 10 signs you've been Omarchy-pilled. @NixFred: How about that, Wes? Want to hear that? @ncfrontiersman: Good. @NixFred: All right. Number 10, you found a MacBook at the Apple Store already running Omarchy, and that was _James Almeida this week. Number 9, your laptop has a better travel life than you do because you see all these people traveling around with Omarchy and having fun with it. @NixFred: Number 8, you reach for the Super Key on your work Mac. How many of you have done that where you get on your Mac and immediately hit the Super Key and figure out it doesn't work? @NixFred: Oh, yeah. Number 7, somebody told you Omarchy is just dot files, and you laugh and agree because now Omarchy has millions of dollars to work with. @NixFred: So if you want to call it dot files, a millionaire dot files, be my guest. Number 6, you converted a coworker before the you converted a coworker before you even had that talk at the meeting, and that was renata.com. @NixFred: Number 7, moving along. You keep an Omarchy resurrection queue of all your dead laptops in the garage, and you want to get to all of them. @NixFred: Number 4, you learned every keyboard shortcut from opening up a game, and now you're on Hyperland like a strato coaster. You're just killing it. @NixFred: Number 3, your Steam Deck runs Omarchy, and the back button scrolls. Number 1, you put a Windows XP wallpaper on your 2016 MacBook running Omarchy, just a mess with people. @NixFred: And the number 1 is that there is now a $100,000 bounty for founding bugs in Omarchy, and you've suddenly become interested in testing it. @NixFred: That's good. We got to do that every week. @NixFred: All right. I'll put it down. @NixFred: Enough of my ridiculousness. I'll approve folks in, and you roll them out. @flyawayzephyr60: Hey, I just wanted to tell you guys real quick that if you have to stay with a Mac, like if it's the work computer and you can't change it, aerospace with Omarchy key bindings, use the what is it? @flyawayzephyr60: Carabiner held down caps lock as a Super Key is a super duper setup. @NixFred: That's amazing input. I want to do stuff like that with my Mac, but it's kind of work, kind of play, and it just makes me nervous messing with it. But I need to get over that and do it. @NixFred: I think that's good advice, man. @ncfrontiersman: Well, I was going to say, Fred, he told me about that the other day, and I've been doing it ever since on my work Mac, so. @NixFred: Yeah. It's aggravating. It's aggravating. @ncfrontiersman: It's great. I love it. It's not quite as good, but hey, it's close, so that's wonderful. @ncfrontiersman: I saw some people request it, but then they dropped out from the request. @NixFred: Yeah. I approved them, and then they dropped off. So I don't know. @NixFred: So if you're itching to speak, now's your chance. Come on up. @NixFred: If not, you're going to have to listen to another top 10 list. I did see that Omarchy now, and we're not promoting any businesses or anything, but one of the first companies that you can buy Omarchy already installed, not that it's that hard, but if you go to I believe it's the Linux laptop. @NixFred: We're not promoting it. The linuxlaptop.com, you can buy a laptop with it already on there, and they're at the Linux laptop on X. @NixFred: I think James Almeida is involved in that and Sunderby and a couple of other folks as well. @ncfrontiersman: Wonderful. Well, let's see. We got Tim that requested to speak and Starlab and Dark Horse, Jeff. @NixFred: I'm approving them all, but they're not coming in sometimes. So I'll approve them, and you talk to them. @ncfrontiersman: Okay. Tim, what's going on? @tim_sonner: How's the mic level? @NixFred: Whoop. @ncfrontiersman: I mean, Fred will probably say you need to speak up, but I'm okay with it. @NixFred: All right. I can't hear, man. I'm old. @ncfrontiersman: No, it's okay. It's all good. @NixFred: It's all good. @tim_sonner: Hey, so I just wanted to kind of try and keep focused on one topic here. And what I want to bring to the table is contribution to piggyback on what Nick was saying. One of the interesting workflows I developed kind of last week was posting demos of my PRs to X and putting a link to that X post in the PR. @tim_sonner: And I think that we have a great open community. We're all contributing somehow. @tim_sonner: And it's really cool to be able to, say, do a demo of your PR, post it on X. It gets everybody involved. @tim_sonner: They can see what it's doing. And I just thought that was a really cool kind of thing to add for the developers, for the maintainers themselves, and just for yourself. @tim_sonner: And we've been doing a bit of live streaming stuff lately with Vitorio. @tim_sonner: And so I would encourage everybody to try live streaming, do some public code-building stuff, and yeah, just get active out there. I have a MacBook 2020. @tim_sonner: I am more than willing to help out with any Mac questions. I'm running Omarchy on it. @tim_sonner: It's kind of my extra. It's not my main. @tim_sonner: But I've been figuring out a lot of stuff with the fingerprint reader with that T2 Intel Mac. And so, yeah, I would highly encourage people that if they're having issues with that hardware or anything like that with Omarchy and that Mac, just reach out to the community. @tim_sonner: And I'd be more than if I can help, I'd be more than happy to do that. Like today even, I did something new. @tim_sonner: I was like, "Hey, post a gist for Nick's Fred so that he can give that to his agent." And I mean, the collaboration that we're able to do now with agents is incredible. @tim_sonner: And I just would encourage everybody to kind of not let any fear get in your way of contributing. If this is a great community and you have the tools to contribute. @NixFred: That's right. That's right. Well, hey, you're talking to one of the guys on the M team. @NixFred: Wes is official part of Omarchy, so make sure you communicate. I don't want to send too many people your way, Wes, but if you've got questions on the M series for Macintosh, Wes is on the official team himself. @ncfrontiersman: Yeah. Apparently, I am. So I'm just kidding. @ncfrontiersman: Yeah. I don't even know if there's there's so many things, right, that we could use help with. @ncfrontiersman: So I appreciate it. And so you're using a 2020, Tim. @ncfrontiersman: You said this Intel-based one. @tim_sonner: Yes, sir. Yeah. MacBook 9.1. @ncfrontiersman: Gotcha. Awesome. Yeah, man, this stuff runs on almost anything. @ncfrontiersman: It's so cool. That's really great. @ncfrontiersman: Well, let's see. Who else is lined up? @ncfrontiersman: I thought we had Starlab was going to speak, but it now says listening. @NixFred: Well, I think it's Spaces, man. I think whoever works on Spaces is part-time over at X because it's pretty yanky sometimes. If you want to speak, speak up. @NixFred: I'll approve you, and Wes will have a chat with you. There's one Wes. @NixFred: Stand by. @ncfrontiersman: All right. @NixFred: All right. We got Starlab. Starlab? @NixFred: Pardon the see if that puts you up there. Starlab, are you there? @NixFred: Yeah. Something's going on with the code. @ncfrontiersman: Maybe we just need to write our own. @NixFred: Yeah. There we go. @ncfrontiersman: Let's see. @NixFred: Maybe it's me. See if you can approve them. @ncfrontiersman: Called to construct, hopped in. @NixFred: There we go. @ncfrontiersman: Let's do that. How's it going? @calledtocnstrct: Hey, how you doing? @ncfrontiersman: It's so good I can't stand it. @calledtocnstrct: It's excellent, isn't it? @ncfrontiersman: It is. @calledtocnstrct: I'll tell you, what's been really interesting with Omarchy, I think I started with just before version 3 came out. And then, of course, to see this explosion with Quatro is just amazing. And so what I've been looking at is all these plugins that are popping up, and it's just amazing. @calledtocnstrct: I'm thinking, "Oh, my gosh, these ideas are just coming out of everywhere." And because of that, I have kind of two things, but not two topics. @calledtocnstrct: Just want to keep it pretty straightforward there. But one thing I'll say as a quick sideline, somebody mentioned building a game. @calledtocnstrct: I've been a software developer for decades, and my daughter I have grandchildren as well, but my daughter always has these great ideas for her kids. And she sent me a couple of ideas like, "Could you build a game like this?" @calledtocnstrct: Which I think is really cool. But I'm working full-time. @calledtocnstrct: It's not easy to build a game. Well, just yesterday, I took a laptop down, and I put it in front of her with running Omarchy, and I brought up Grok Build. @calledtocnstrct: And I said, "Here, type into this text editor an idea for a game." And she sat down and typed it up. @calledtocnstrct: It took her about 15 minutes. And then I copied and pasted it over to Grok Build. @calledtocnstrct: And then we had a conversation. We were just sitting there talking for about half an hour. @calledtocnstrct: And then it said, "Done." And I said, "This could go horribly wrong, so don't get your expectations up too much, but let's see what happens." @calledtocnstrct: It was a single HTML file with CSS and JavaScript. Opened it up, and the kids swarmed the table. @calledtocnstrct: And it was hard to get everybody organized, but each of the kids sat down and started playing. And then my daughter was playing, my son-in-law was playing, and it was touchscreen, so it was so exciting to watch. @ncfrontiersman: Wow. @calledtocnstrct: So that was a lot of fun. But I keep looking around saying, "Could I build a plugin? I can't think of an idea for a plugin," which I think is hilarious. @calledtocnstrct: But what I did come across was this idea that we have all these great plugins. We have all these great applications. @calledtocnstrct: It's open source. And so I've been playing around with this idea of a bundle. @calledtocnstrct: I can't think of a better name for it. So I've been calling it a bundle. @calledtocnstrct: And essentially, it's a way of saying, "I want to have these three or four applications, these two plugins, and some skill files to go with it so that if somebody's using their AI, they can use these tools and applications, and the AI can kind of help them understand how to get the most use out of these things." And then maybe you package it up with an introduction markdown file to explain it. @calledtocnstrct: And now I'm sitting here building bundles in my GitHub, pulling together ideas. And so we had with the aviation, I was thinking, "What would an aviation bundle look like? @calledtocnstrct: What applications would somebody in that industry use, and what plugins, and how would they incorporate these things together?" And so that's kind of what I've been playing around with. @calledtocnstrct: And I'm just kind of curious to hear some feedback. Is this a silly idea, or can you see yourself using this to put together things? @calledtocnstrct: Even if you just want to replicate to your own machines the tools that you tend to use, or could you see this idea of kind of like bundling these things together? So I'm kind of curious what people would have to say about that. @ncfrontiersman: I mean, I think it's amazing. I could think of so many different uses for that. I mean, it could be, like you said, aviation or whatever, but it could even be like I'm thinking like high schoolers. @ncfrontiersman: You could have a bundle for them to learn how to build whatever ideas that they have, like a kit. @ncfrontiersman: You got like the Mark Rober STEM engineering kits that come in the mail and stuff like that. But this could be like a thing where you come up with this builder's kit, and it comes with everything you need to kind of get started, and you just go off with that. @ncfrontiersman: I mean, I also think about right now, there's a lot of industries that have software that is super highly customized. @ncfrontiersman: They hired a company to build it. I mean, I used to be one of those companies, like commercial insurance or whatever you want to say. @ncfrontiersman: And it's like you have this highly custom piece of software, and it's really hard to maintain. It's expensive. @ncfrontiersman: A lot of times, after a few years, people stop. They don't know how to write code in that old language anymore, and so you got to figure that out. @ncfrontiersman: And so if you had these kits that are kind of AI-native and forward that work in Omarchy, I think there's a lot of use cases there, so. And I don't think it has to be complicated. @ncfrontiersman: I think kind of what you're talking about is just really like orchestration or organization of installing the different plugins that make it up and then some good skills to kind of point it in the right direction. I could see something like this being part of Omarchy. @NixFred: 100%. @ncfrontiersman: You know what I mean? @NixFred: Yeah. And also called to construct. I took a look at your promisemeaforever.com, and it looks amazing. @NixFred: And leading people to how the world can be a more positive place is incredible. And the way that you talk about putting things together, what I would say to you is, if you've got that idea and you think that you and it's important to you, and you think putting things like that together would be worthwhile, well, guess what, man? @NixFred: If you have that idea, other people probably need the same and can't articulate it as well as you do. And so if you think of it, put it out there. @NixFred: And then there's one final thing I want to say about what you talked about earlier. @NixFred: So important to get the kids and the younger generation onto Linux before they even see Windows and the other thing. And I think it's amazing the way that you, instead of saying sure to your daughters, "Yeah, I'll make you that game," the key thing that in my mind, the key thing that you did there was make them invest in it. @NixFred: And you said, "Sit down, and you got to write your own game." And I think that was the hinge point. @NixFred: And you're going to remember this, and they're going to remember this because it did a couple of things. And the most important piece is it made them invest in it. @NixFred: They got to see the output. And I think that you taught them and educated them on what the possibilities are. @NixFred: Their next step, and I don't think it's going to be too much farther before they go, "Dad, how do I do that myself? Would you show me how? @NixFred: Because I got a couple of more ideas." And as soon as that happens, and as soon as they see their ideas come to life and how easy it is to actually do, they're going to be bitten by the bug, and that's it. @NixFred: For the rest of their life, they're going to be able to make their own products, and they're going to be able to drive a computer with confidence. And the thing with kids is that their confidence levels have to be up, or they're scared of it, and they won't use it. @NixFred: And what you did was build a bridge for these kids to feel like that their input matters, that the things that they want to make are possible. And I commend you, man. @NixFred: That's amazing. @calledtocnstrct: Yeah. Well, thank you for that. I'll tell you, the other thing I did, I kind of forgot to mention it, was last week when I talked with when I visited my kids and my grandkids, I asked them, I said, "What's your favorite subject?" @calledtocnstrct: And one was like Pokémon. One was ice cream. @calledtocnstrct: One was Monster Trucks. I built a theme. @calledtocnstrct: I had Grok build a theme for all of those subjects. And so then I had each one of them come over to the laptop, and I said, "Here's what your laptop looks like." @calledtocnstrct: And I taught them Super Space. And it's like that's kind of one of the only things you really have to know. @calledtocnstrct: And then Super W to close. And they just thought it was incredible. @calledtocnstrct: And then they came up with like 1,000 different theme ideas they wanted to have. But it was so much fun. @calledtocnstrct: It was like the best week I've had in a long time. Regarding the bundles, I do have a discussion out on the Omarchi project. @calledtocnstrct: There's a discussion for it. If people like the idea, if you comment and upvote, I think that would help get some visibility. @calledtocnstrct: If you have alternate ideas or something that we could collaborate on, definitely let me know. I've got some other ideas out there. @calledtocnstrct: I'm trying to help out with triage and do some PRs with the Omarchi packaging to get some risk and controls in there. And so anyway, if you want to collaborate on anything, let me know. @ncfrontiersman: I'm going to fire off a tweet on that right now, and I'll retweet it to the folks here in this social, and we'll keep it going. So I'll keep watching your space. Throw a tweet up there. @ncfrontiersman: Let's retweet it, and let's see how far we can get you. @calledtocnstrct: And thanks so much for doing these spaces. It's been so much fun tuning in and listening and meeting all the people that are showing up. It's Omarchi. @NixFred: Well, you got Wes to thank for the original idea doing that. And let me ask you one last question, man. And if you want to speak, please go ahead and request. @NixFred: Let me ask you a question. This may be a little personal. @NixFred: When we're using the computer, for me, Omarchi kind of gets me back to that kid excitement feeling. For me, it does. @NixFred: That Disney World excitement. And did you get a touch of that when you saw your kids' faces light up when they saw their own ideas come to light? @calledtocnstrct: Oh, absolutely. So my first interaction with the computer was when I was 11 on an original IBM. So I've been in the industry for decades, giving away my age a little bit, but I don't mind. @calledtocnstrct: And when I could sit down and my father taught mathematics. When I could sit down and he was like, "Oh, if you want to learn how to program, here, do this equation and plot it on the screen." @calledtocnstrct: And so I had to learn how to put the machine into graphics mode and then plot in pixels on the screen when I'm like 11, 12 years old. And it was just a whole new world opened up. @calledtocnstrct: And nobody was around to share it with. But I could still I could sit down and I could learn something. @calledtocnstrct: I could get the computer to do something. And my desire has always been to help other people to be able to do that, to feel empowered, to be able to drive technology to where you need it to be for yourself. @calledtocnstrct: And so attending meetups and helping people onboard to IT, all these kinds of things I've been able to do. But my kids have always felt like they couldn't necessarily do that. @calledtocnstrct: They're busy. They got their families to take care of. @calledtocnstrct: And this is one of those things that's always been a specialized. You had to spend years and years and years to learn it. @calledtocnstrct: And now my daughter, who's middle-aged, has four kids, never written a program in her life. Even at college, she was in a different program, and she didn't need to get into computer programming. @calledtocnstrct: And she sat down, and within half an hour, she had a game that all four of the kids could play. And even the adults had fun. @calledtocnstrct: It was amazing. @NixFred: That is wonderful, Bruce. Thank you for stopping by and sharing your story. And I kind of got a little touch of that feeling myself, man. @NixFred: Thank you so much for stopping by. @calledtocnstrct: Awesome. Thank you. @NixFred: Hey, Mark. We got an expert in the room. Marcelo is our next speaker, and he is a principal engineer and architect. @NixFred: I can't say where, but he's a big shot. Marcelo, bro, are you as bummed out as me about the Nvidia cutting the RAM in half on the Spark? @NixFred: I saw your post on that. It's ridiculous. @maralcbr: You mean the four monitors running on the M2 Max? @NixFred: Yeah. So Nvidia, I saw your post about it. They basically cut the RAM on the DGX Spark in half to 64, and they priced the same. @maralcbr: Yeah. So something hello, everyone. My name is Marcelo. @maralcbr: I work with the Omarchi team, focusing on the M1 Max, the Apple silicon. But what I do as a for career, yeah, I am an AI engineer and architect. @maralcbr: I have been doing that for the last three years and a half over my 25 years of software engineering career. And yeah, one of the topics that I'm quite interested in and I consult on is around tokenomics, is around how companies can optimize their AI given the costs that keep fluctuating, right? @maralcbr: And this example was exactly that. A machine that was supposed to bring local AI more and more accessible, they just basically doubled the price, right? @maralcbr: If you half the RAM, you're basically doubling the price of the machine, and it was quite disappointing. But not only that, like last week, OpenAI cut half of the credits from their Pro 200 account. @maralcbr: Every week, something happens, right? And it has been usually around reducing credits to increasing, although they claim the models are being optimized, but you never know the quantization they are using, right? @maralcbr: They say the model, but what's becoming more and more obvious is that they release the models at full quant. And then as weeks pass by, they start to quantize them so that they can fit more models in the GPU. @maralcbr: And that's what people are starting to measure right around the nerfing, right? People talk about the nerfing of the models. @maralcbr: That's exactly that. You see the models, it's still the same model, but they perform a bit better. @maralcbr: And the guess from the industry is around quantization. There is no transparency around the quantization. @maralcbr: But hey, this space is about Omarchi, right? @NixFred: Yeah, man. @maralcbr: But no, we are super excited with what's coming on Omarchi, like our Aurora kernel. So we have been able to give more and more compatibility to machines. We have people working on all models all the way from, well, M2 and M1 and M2 are cracked, right, beside Touch ID, which we are already finalizing testing. @maralcbr: So Touch ID is coming out. But we have people working on the GPU for M3, M4, M5, and M6, and the Neo, right? @maralcbr: The Neo is like 95% complete. So the idea is that we're going to be supporting all models. @maralcbr: And even today, I saw that Wes put something in relation to if it was Asahi, right? So no, it's not. @maralcbr: We are for Asahi, and we're going our own direction that we Asahi has a rule that they don't support AI, and we are very much AI-driven, right? @maralcbr: We have some senior people, and we try to use AI with an engineering approach. And we are getting very successful with this approach, and we're going to keep pushing and the idea that Omarchi is going to be in all models. @ncfrontiersman: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. @ncfrontiersman: I think the guy's question was, are we going to be contributing this to Asashi or whatever, however you pronounce it. And I said, no, I didn't want to get too into the weeds, but I appreciate you saying that. @ncfrontiersman: We've worked it. We have good reason for that. @ncfrontiersman: And yeah, I mean, I think there's this implication that if you use AI, that you're just vibe coding. That's not what's happening at all here. @ncfrontiersman: There is very strict engineering practices being put into the way we build this stuff. And so you should feel at ease knowing that that's happening. @ncfrontiersman: It's just some people don't get that nuance, I think. So yeah. @ncfrontiersman: Well, it's good to hear from you. Yeah. @ncfrontiersman: There's a lot coming for Max very soon. I mean, there's been a lot of momentum, so I think it'll land pretty soon here. @ncfrontiersman: So yeah, anything else you want to share? Aside from all that, Marcelo, are you building anything, any plugins or apps? @maralcbr: Oh, yeah. I was going to share one. So I don't know. @maralcbr: Do you use Plex? Wes, Nix, do you use Plex for your videos at home? @NixFred: Oh, yeah. @maralcbr: Yeah. So Plex has been over time just reducing the features too, right? It's starting to ask for subscriptions. @maralcbr: And I don't know if you have that live pass. I never got one. @NixFred: Yeah, I got it back when it was 50 bucks, years back ago. @maralcbr: Yeah. Now I need to pay monthly, right? @NixFred: Yeah. @maralcbr: So a couple of weeks ago, I decided that I was going to create my own Plex. @NixFred: Nice. @maralcbr: I'm still trying to land the name for that, but I'm thinking about calling it Oma Play. @NixFred: I love it. @maralcbr: And yeah, I would say it's like 75% complete. Last night, I was doing testing, and it's doing transcriptions. It's doing mapping the episodes you watch to make sure that the positions are correct, that you always finish and go to the next one. @maralcbr: There's a lot of details that are very interesting that I never thought about before getting into that. But yeah, this is something that I'm excited, a side project that I'm excited that's going to be coming out. @maralcbr: And yeah, maybe it's going to be Oma Play. @NixFred: Hey. I'm willing to jump in on you because I'm a big movie fan just like everybody else. So hit me up if you want me to poke around in it. @NixFred: Happy to help. I often PR for folks, and I'm happy to do it for you. @maralcbr: Yeah. Let's go. @NixFred: Send it over. You can't flex too if you want. @maralcbr: Yeah. @NixFred: You know what I'm saying? You're flexing on Plex, right? Oh, man, that's awesome. @NixFred: Cool. Well, that's awesome. @ncfrontiersman: It's always fun to have one of those pet projects that you kind of feel passionate about and you have fun that's different from the grind of kernel work. Because the kernel work and all that, there's a lot of rebooting and waiting. @ncfrontiersman: Feedback loops pretty slow sometimes. Yeah. @ncfrontiersman: You want that opening that quick hit where you see your results immediately and you don't effectively get that on kernel work. @ncfrontiersman: Yeah. But it's interesting. Sometimes I'm going to make a behind-the-scenes video sometime to show the lab here. @ncfrontiersman: So for example, I have one laptop controlling another three laptops, and they have cables to the VGM. So they can cold boot the laptops to retest kernel. @ncfrontiersman: And then I have another VM with a beefed up server here that does x86. So when we make changes on the Mac, we retest them on that x86 to make sure it didn't affect in any way the x86 installation. @ncfrontiersman: So it's really when I mentioned about engineering for the compiling of the kernels like this, it's really we are creating a whole automation to go really at industrial scale, and that's how we can move at all that speed. @ncfrontiersman: Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. @ncfrontiersman: That's the only way to do it. You spend that time. @ncfrontiersman: Sometimes it feels like a lot upfront, but it pays off in the long run when you can invest upfront. Pay me now or pay me later kind of thing. @ncfrontiersman: So I think that's great. @maralcbr: And I think another thing to share, so Oxyro is working on the local AI, right? And I have been collaborating with him. So one of the things I do is, well, that's my profession, right, around the local AI and tokenomics. @maralcbr: So I have a multi-GPU server that I'm testing for Oxyro. I don't know if you guys saw a recent post that I did about that. @maralcbr: But yeah, the local AI is going to be really cool. And the idea is to connect that with MLX for the Mac too at some stage. @maralcbr: So yeah, it's a cool plugin to install and to load models into your Omarchi machine. @ncfrontiersman: Wow. Yeah. I mean, I love where that's going. @ncfrontiersman: I mean, maybe one day we'll get there. We can have it all local. @ncfrontiersman: Who knows? Wonderful. @ncfrontiersman: Well, thanks for hopping in, man. It's good to hear from you. @ncfrontiersman: Yeah. Good. The time zone matched, right? @ncfrontiersman: I'm here in Australia, East Coast, right? So it's 6:26 in the morning of Monday. @ncfrontiersman: So you guys are like, oh, what are you doing awake, right? @ncfrontiersman: Well, thanks for joining, man. You're calling in. You're about to start the week. @ncfrontiersman: That's great. @ncfrontiersman: Yeah. It's holiday here today. @ncfrontiersman: Okay. All right. Cool. @ncfrontiersman: Well, I hope you have a good week, Marcelo. Oh, my gosh. @ncfrontiersman: Is that Hollis? It is. @ncfrontiersman: Woo. What's up, Chris? @hicsfh: Hey. Hey, guys. Hey, Fred. @hicsfh: Hey, Wes. @NixFred: What's up? Hey, Chris. How's it going? @hicsfh: Pretty good. Pretty good. Thank you for I feel like I'm falling into a radio. @ncfrontiersman: I was telling Fred that he used to be on NPR, Click and Clac. I don't know if you remember that. @hicsfh: That just proves you're old, Chris. @ncfrontiersman: Yeah. @hicsfh: Yeah. I guess so. Yeah. @hicsfh: Well, I guess I wanted to is there anything you guys want to ask me? Or you just want me to give my spiel about Apple? @NixFred: Yeah, man. Let's hear the I mean, you work on so much stuff. I mean, it's hard to keep up with the AI space. @NixFred: And you make it more difficult, man, because you're just so quick at putting stuff out and helping folks. And I mean, it's amazing. @NixFred: We want to hear anything you want to talk about. @hicsfh: All right. Sure. Well, it's a little introduction. @hicsfh: My Omarchi experience started back with if you can even if you can even trace it that far back, if that's even fair. But I started with OmaCube, which was the original Omakase idea that David had, but he applied it to Ubuntu. @hicsfh: So OmaCube. It's funny how Omarchi is the perfect name because Oma is the perfect it's like that prefix just goes with anything you want to make. @hicsfh: You can just put Oma in front of it and you got a name. @NixFred: That's right. It just sets you up for success automatically. That's right. @NixFred: Told me it meant grandma too in another language. I can't remember. @hicsfh: Oh, that's funny. Yeah. Yeah. @hicsfh: So I started with OmaCube and then switched to Omarchi. I think the great thing for me is and I'm saying it wrong. @hicsfh: I know. I just can't. @hicsfh: OmaCube. @NixFred: We all say it wrong. @hicsfh: So I switched to that. And I think the greatest thing for me is really I've tried to use Linux many, many, many, many times, and I've always come away with a sense of I don't have time. I just don't have enough time to invest in this to get it to a point where I need it to be. @hicsfh: So David took kind of together with him and Ryan, they took away the they took that away, and now you have a system where everything's stable pretty much as you would expect it to be, right? Surely stable or more stable than Mac and Windows. @hicsfh: And that's just fantastic. And the approach now taken with Quatro really pushing on the AI front, which, of course, we were doing before, but now even more so, is quite remarkable. @hicsfh: And the malleable OS is not just something we say. It's true, and it's extremely powerful. @hicsfh: I think what I'm most excited about and why I built Atmos is so Atmos is this I'm not really sure, honestly, what product segment it lands in, but let's just say preference pane, config panel, whatever. @NixFred: I use it every single hour I'm on my machine. @hicsfh: That's awesome. Makes me extremely happy to hear that. I think I don't know exactly where we're going to end up with it, and I think it's going to be more than just configuration. @hicsfh: But the idea is that I think the original sort of idea with OmaCube was, okay, you're going to have key bindings, and you're going to use Superspace and Neovim and all that kind of stuff. I'm more of a mouse person. @hicsfh: I'm not super good at remembering all that stuff. So I needed something where I could get a bird's-eye view of everything on my machine. @hicsfh: And here's the really cool thing about Linux is you can actually access that. You can access pretty much everything you need to know, if not everything, about your computer. @hicsfh: It's there. If you know how. @NixFred: And more that you didn't even realize was there, for sure. @hicsfh: Yeah. Yeah. And on Windows, I think it's a little bit more easier to find stuff if you're willing to dig into the registry and things like that and all sorts of other crazy things. @hicsfh: And on Mac, it's almost completely shut down. And it seems like they're even moving closer to shutting things down even more with the full disk thing. @hicsfh: I saw that earlier. I don't know exactly what that was. @hicsfh: So the great thing about this is we're building a tool now. You can monitor your PC and not just your CPU, but all sorts of different whatever sensors I can get my hands on, I want to show them in Atmos and also find different and interesting charting and graphing options to show them in a way that's compelling and delightful. @hicsfh: But we also have ways to control your desktop, ways to control your key bindings, and visualize your key bindings so you can see it all in one place. I think it's a little bit more easier than the key bindings panel you can get up with Superspace. @hicsfh: We have hardware, drivers, disk, power controls, and just a ton of different things. There's something that if you use Omachi, you may not know that this is a thing, but Omachi has a concept of hooks, which is used to drive a lot of the stuff that goes on behind the scene with the so-called .files/bash scripts. @hicsfh: So you can even see what hooks are running, and you can add stuff to the hooks. So when an update goes through, maybe you want to have something custom running, you can add that via Atmos. @hicsfh: And one of the really cool things that I think you contributed, Fred, was the Oma file, which is you can take everything just take it with a grain of salt when I say everything. This is a work in progress. @hicsfh: It moved very fast. But the idea is that you can export an Oma file, and it's a markdown. @hicsfh: And that's your invention. It's a readable markdown file that a computer or an ALM can understand. @hicsfh: And so not only can Atmos itself take that markdown file and parse it as actual data and then set up your entire computer or all the Atmos control settings the way you like them, but you can also hand it off to an LLM and be like, "Here's my Oma file. Can you just forget about Atmos, but just go in and configure everything according to this?" @NixFred: Yeah. So two things I do with Atmos. Number one is I've got a super key to make it automatically because I use it a lot. @NixFred: I'm not kidding. I've got a super key that drops it down like a quake terminal so that I can get to it really quick, which I highly recommend. @NixFred: And the export-import thing, I use that all the time. And because when I'm installing a potato or just something that's kind of a throwaway machine, I don't want to have to configure a bunch. @NixFred: So I have different Atmos exports that I can just apply the import to really quickly duplicate a machine. So it does two things for me. @NixFred: It's kind of a backup of my main machine, which I call Gus. And it's also a way to distribute and clone a machine to something else. @hicsfh: Yep. Yep. And it's actually really, really great. @hicsfh: And it's so lightweight. @NixFred: You did great. @NixFred: And thank you. Thank you. It was an accident. @NixFred: Tell the story. How was it an accident? @ncfrontiersman: It's an accident, right? @hicsfh: It was a happy accident. But yeah. @NixFred: Okay. Now you got me. I'm intrigued. @NixFred: What was the accident? @hicsfh: I mean, it was I think this is kind of one of the key ideas about what we're doing with AI is that I think most of us it's like a human thing. We're made to invent things. It's like one of our primary, I guess, evolutionary advantages is that we just come up with things, and we just want to try them out. @hicsfh: And with AI for computers, the barrier in order to the idea, which is always the "easy" part, and actually having something that works, that's the hard part. But now with AI, and especially on Omachi, you can go from "I wonder" to actually having something up and running. @hicsfh: And yeah, I don't remember exactly the chain of events for me, but Atmos right now is way bigger and way cooler and way more amazing than I ever thought it would be. @NixFred: I agree. @hicsfh: And then posting about it, it's just not this was not my intention. This was not planned. This is just how it ended up with. @hicsfh: And it's incredibly cool to have been a part of making that. @NixFred: Well, I've been calling it for a couple of weeks, and I think it's going to likely end up as a part of the native install myself. I think it'll get there. The only reason it wouldn't is because DHH is a little bit against having global settings, as I understand it. @NixFred: But it's so useful, man. I use it all the time. @hicsfh: Yeah. We're having conversations. @hicsfh: Wes is on that. I'm a member as well. @hicsfh: I'm a member and volunteer in the, I guess, group or whatever you want to call it. So there are conversations about how we're going to take that part of the system moving forward. @hicsfh: I obviously cannot speak at all to what that direction is going to be, but there's definitely some, I think, support for maybe if it's not built in, maybe there's a quick that's the great thing about Superspace is you can just if you want something, you can bring it up in, I don't know, 10 seconds. You could have this thing up and running. @hicsfh: And that's good enough for me as far as being built in. And I think it's a lot the same even though I think Flee is I'm pretty sure Flee is going to land in mainline Omachi. @NixFred: Yeah. That's by GM, the guy GM. @hicsfh: Yeah. Yeah. And so that has a lot more I mean, it kind of let's say it's a little bit down the same line, I think, because that is a graphical user interface as well or something that you could definitely use if you are fancy enough with your terminal. @hicsfh: You could do everything in there. You could do with your GUI. @hicsfh: But I think it's a good example of something where reaching for the terminal becomes overly complicated compared to using a graphical user interface because there is so much data that you need to read back when you're looking at files and kind of stuff. And I think the same thing applies with these configurations and really the kind of configurations that we want Atmos to kind of be able to do and deal with. @hicsfh: And I'm talking one of the things that I want to get into is deep, deep Linux configurations, kernel configurations. Another thing that's going on with Omachi is, of course, the bespoke kernel, right? @hicsfh: That is likely going to open up, in my estimation, a lot more things that we can tweak and configure to our liking. @ncfrontiersman: Yeah. Totally has. I mean, we've already started with the Mac side, so. @ncfrontiersman: Well, hey, it's cool to hear from you, Chris. It's exciting everything you've been building and the discovery. @ncfrontiersman: And I love accidents like that. I mean, to be honest with you, Oma Storm was kind of that way too. @ncfrontiersman: It wasn't like I had this grand plan. It was just like Labor Day weekend. @ncfrontiersman: I'm like, "Let me see." And then you kind of stumble and get pulled through it. @ncfrontiersman: And all of a sudden, you're on the other side, and you're like, "What just happened? This is awesome." @hicsfh: Yeah. Exactly. @ncfrontiersman: Well, you're always welcome, Chris. Thank you for dropping by, and thank you for your contribution to the Omachi community, brother. You rock. @hicsfh: Thank you. You too. Thank you. @ncfrontiersman: Well, Fred, I think it's that time, man. I think we've been going an hour and 40 minutes. It's been a great. @NixFred: Wow. Has it already been that long? @ncfrontiersman: It sure has. It's been a wonderful time today with everybody. I guess you got any closing words of wisdom for us? @NixFred: Wow, that's a big ask. Wisdom for me, I'm not sure. @ncfrontiersman: We're dad joke works too. @NixFred: Yeah. Yeah. So those of you that weren't able to speak today, we apologize. @NixFred: The most important thing is please, while I'm rambling and closing up here, please follow everybody you're not following, especially the ones that already follow you. Reach out. @NixFred: Like I always say, the Omachi community helps each other. We're courteous. @NixFred: We're kind. No politics. @NixFred: Help an old woman across the street. And after you get her across the street, put Omachi on her laptop. @ncfrontiersman: There you go. There you go. All right. @ncfrontiersman: Well, I hope everybody has a wonderful rest of the day and a great week, and we'll see you next time. @NixFred: All right. Congratulations, Wes. It's amazing. @ncfrontiersman: Thank you, brother. @NixFred: Yep. Thank you. @NixFred: All right. Bye-bye, everybody. @ncfrontiersman: Bye. # EP 05: Sunday Builders Club: The One Where Wes Wants an Omarchy Phone Part of "Omarchy! Omarchy! Omarchy!", the weekly Omarchy X Space. Every Sunday, 3pm EST, live on X. - Recorded: Sunday, October 11, 2026, 3pm EST - Length: 109 minutes - X recording: 1:41:19 - Film (Sunday Builders Club, 4 min): https://omarchyspaces.com/films/ep05.mp4 - Speakers: 12+ - Tuned in: 238 - Hosts: @ncfrontiersman, @NixFred - Listen: https://x.com/i/spaces/1NGaroBgpBgJj - Post on X: https://x.com/NixFred/status/2109398381277708500 - Episode notes (PDF): https://drive.google.com/file/d/1jhnQxE_JAXHM60lMs6-kTW7hIxv2KoUd/view - Web: https://omarchyspaces.com/ep/05/ ## Summary (as posted on X by @NixFred) Sunday Builders Club, Episode 5: "The one where Wes wants an Omarchy phone." Recorded Sunday, October 11, 2026. An hour and 49 minutes, 238 tuned in, 10 people came up to speak, and every one of them was building something. Listen: https://x.com/i/spaces/1NGaroBgpBgJj Full write-up and the complete transcript: https://omarchyspaces.com/ep/05/ @ncfrontiersman Wes Grimes, host, creator of OmaStorm, and me @nixfred, co-host. Wes and I are the hosts but YOU are the star! @himarkyi is giving the @omarchy Foundation $1.5 million in @grok tokens, and @namespacelabs is putting in $100,000 a year in compute for ARM testing. @JoshuaSWarren built an iPhone app on Omarchy with no Mac anywhere, and nearly 10,000 people liked that. @ryanrhughes merged 111 commits of Apple Silicon support into Omarchy itself, and Wes had a couple of them in there. The marketplace passed 5,000 plugins. And the brand new official @omarchy account on X promised that CAPS LOCK gets left alone in the next version! Four weeks ago this @XSpaces started as a way to help newcomers. Wes renamed it for the week because the room has grown past that. Everybody here is building something, whether it is an app, a resume or a legacy, so he wanted to dig into the part nobody warns you about: what happens after the euphoria wears off. The tickets come in. The PRs come in. Anybody can be a builder, he said. It just means you are willing to roll your sleeves up, and when it gets ugly you put your head down and keep pounding, like the Panthers slogan. Wes on the stages of AI psychosis, which go like the stages of grief. First: everything I learned does not matter anymore. Then: I could build anything in the world! Then you come back down to earth: I can, but can I support all of it? Where he landed is that he has a lot of new superpowers, but "I still got to put my mind to it." Then we traded maintainer war stories. When I opened Blip and Infomarchy to PRs the magic happened, people sent in features and fixes I never would have come up with, but I feel guilty every time one is not the vision and I have to say no. Wes calls himself a ruthless prioritizer, because every feature is tech debt, a dependency that can break and a vulnerability that becomes his problem, and once it ships people expect it forever. His example: somebody wanted OmaStorm to follow the laptop's GPS, but not every laptop has one, so he is building a hook on the outside instead of a branch on the inside. And when the answer is no, we both say the same thing: fork it and make it yours. Don't wait on us. Wes's rule for what to build: find a problem right around you, solve it for yourself, take it through every edge case, fix every bit of friction, then release it. Nothing is new under the sun, so if it bugs you it bugs somebody else too. And passion is what gets you through the part where you want to quit. My grandfather said it best: "If you go after the money, you'll never get it. If you do the job right, it'll hit you in the back of the head." WES WANTS AN OMARCHY PHONE Wes hates software keyboards. He loves the tactile kind, where you can feel the keys without looking, and he got excited about Minimal's phone: simple, a real keyboard, on pre-order and due in December. That is Omarchy in your pocket. A tool crafted to just what you need, with the GPS and the camera in your hand, and no Apple walled garden of waiting for an app store to approve you. He does not think Apple will ever open up, so he is putting the call out. If a phone company is willing to be a hardware company first and give us the drivers, he will build a mobile OS on Omarchy. Framework, what if you made a phone? After the Studio Display kernel work, and with models like Opus 5.5, here is how he sees it: "Unless there is some very locked-down security encryption issue on the hardware, I don't see how it could not be solved." I told him I support him, and if I can help I will. @devsec_ai DevSec came with the part of building nobody puts in the demo, and he comes at it from cybersecurity. His app Uber Notebook is a massive one. His tip: once you have submitted a few apps and you know what the maintainer looks for, have your agent read every comment raised on your work and build a skill from it. Your agent just follows your prompts, so you repeat the same patterns, and a skill can fix a pattern. Code review will become a chore and the only way through is time, but look at the bright side: what used to take months of human peer review now takes 5 hours of agent review while you sleep, plus a pass by you. His big warning is what he calls the disposable apps mentality. Apps get built fast and forgotten, which makes an enormous pile of waste and security holes. Build something you want to maintain, because he expects the maintainers will eventually delist apps nobody maintains, "which is the right thing to do." I added my own: with great power comes great responsibility, and if your app wipes somebody's computer that is on you. It is easy to generate code and hard to make a surgical change without breaking something else. So ask your agent for the smallest possible implementation that still works, and ask yourself whether you could fix it by hand one day. @neil404 Neil works in the public sector, with public defenders, and he only found out this year how good AI is. He was never a software programmer. He is building Exculpta, named for exculpatory evidence, for small publicly funded teams. Picture a public defender handed a case file with 30 body cams, statements and transcripts, with 70 cases already on the desk. You drop in the discovery and it finds the people, places, things and events, builds a chronology and a cast of characters, and links every answer to the original source. Documents get OCR'd, media gets transcribed and indexed, and you pick your own models. It runs in Docker on a Linux server with whatever GPUs you can find, on local AI where it can, because a lot of this material is confidential. Companies charge public service folks hundreds of thousands of dollars for this and nobody has that. Neil's answer is to build it free and put it out there for everybody. Nothing to do with legal writing, by the way, so no made up citations. I retweeted it and followed him on the spot. He had to rename it this week when he found a company in Portland with the same name. @NotJustShaking Lee did not bring a build this time. He brought a suggestion: a Slack for the group, so the conversation does not end when the Space does, people can share their work, and the ones building plugins and tools can form groups. Cost is the question, so he wondered whether the Omacom Foundation could cover a couple of months to see if it works. If not, throw it away, or people chip in. Wes likes Slack better than Discord. I have tried to love Discord and I just cannot get there, maybe it is the Gen X in me. We are going to look into it and report back next week. In the meantime, Tim Sonner @tim_sonner set up a group chat on X for all of us. Jump in. @calledtocnstrct He started building little games for his grandkids, and he wanted them to work with eye tracking, because one of his grandsons is non-verbal and cannot use a joystick. Eye tracking is how he talks to the world. Back then the AI could not get there, and he could not even buy access to an SDK. He was devastated. This week he sat on his deck in the cool evening air, plugged in an eye tracker, asked the AI to build whatever driver it needed, and 30 minutes later it was working. It even built a WebSocket interface, so any web page can see where the eye is looking. Three games so far, all eye tracking compatible. "It's not as easy as it might sound to just look at something and activate it." He wants to buy every eye tracker he can, because so many hide behind the medical industry's walled gardens, and keep improving that interface. He is also working on risk and vulnerability visibility in the package repository to bring Omarchy to corporations, and on the documentation to bring it to military and government, plus one more idea he says is too big to talk about yet. I sent him a reverse engineering playbook repo and my own eye tracking code, and Wes and I both told him we are here to help. @StudioXRadio Studio X Radio, call sign KB2UKA, a.k.a. Doug Serrato, runs a financial advisory firm and has been an amateur radio operator since he was 12. In March he started teaching himself LLMs, and because there was no software defined radio software for linux or mac, he and a buddy built one. It has 1,200 users now, which is big in that niche, and it talks to serious hardware, so he learned AI the hard way. That is what he brought to the M4 project, and he is on the M team with Wes. He was holding what he believes is the first USB installer for Omarchy on the M4 MacBook Air. It boots natively from the internal SSD, with the GPU desktop, trackpad, Wi-Fi, Bluetooth mouse, speakers and audio codec working, one USB port (the one nearest the hinge), and real hardware video decoding for H.264 and VP9. Next he wipes his dev build, reloads, and tests the installer like any of us would. It is experimental, with a big disclaimer for daily Mac users, and he planned to release it as Omarchy M4 Native v0.1.0-alpha.1 within hours. He picked up coding books many times over 35 years, and then the babies and the wife and the business came along. His line: when the chainsaw was invented, you did not see many lumberjacks swinging an axe. I told him we are not even 10% done. @MasterMynd2004 MasterMinder built a side project to replace himself! A friend has a restaurant where a big part of the business is catering, staffing was a mess, and MasterMinder took his calls for a few weeks, thinking how hard could it be. The quoting and invoicing "kind of sucked." So he built a platform that does all the catering admin except approving the quote: intake, customer questions, the digital menu, the quote, the invoice and booking on the calendar. The chef changes his settings by messaging an assistant called Zara on WhatsApp, Telegram, email or SMS, like he would anyone else. Want the deposit split 40/60 instead of 50/50? Tell Zara and the invoices go out right. Restaurant people are busy, so no new app to learn, and no voice yet because people want to message. If something breaks, MasterMinder gets a Telegram with the problem and a suggested fix. Now more restaurants want a trial, and the way he built it will not scale past 30 or 40 customers, so the question for the room was how to productize it. My answer: you are doing it right. You showed value first and you met people where they already are. The best problem you can have is how to scale to 45 customers. Do not spend a penny on marketing, because marketing is paying for the next customer, and you already have your next customer. Wes added: treat what you built as a prototype, point an agent at it, have it deconstruct the behavior and the specs, then build the real multi-tenant version. That kind of refactoring goes pretty well now. And the future of software is not software for other developers, it is for small businesses, freelancers and the one man show. We both offered to help. Another one from my grandfather: "We can do anything we want. We just can't do it all." @MuchmoreIT I know Heath in rl, and everything he does is huge. He works on the federal security hardening rules (STIGs) that tap the brakes on everything and break ports and apps, supercomputers for the hurricane models NOAA runs, and a customer looking at AMD's upcoming Helios 12 racks at roughly 235 kilowatts a rack. Where Omarchy comes in is speed. Federal teams run bloated, stock ubuntu-style linux, and that slows a lot of people down. He and Wes share a love of weather. Heath built his own hurricane model tracker to find out how accurate each of those spaghetti models really is. He is also a former F-117A avionics guy, and he is building an Omarchy desktop version of the old MicroProse F-117A flight sim, with the things the game got wrong fixed. Wes loves weather and avionics, so they have to talk. And Heath's company's lawyers finally cleared his patents, so he may open up about quantum encryption. I say I know how to scale stuff. Heath scales me. @JamesTervit James was up at 4:30am in the morning in Singapore, which is Monday for him, because that is the only way to catch a Sunday in the States. What got him into Omarchy was Andrew Boyd's T1 bridge. His 2017 MacBook had been collecting dust, and for the first time a Linux build went straight on and everything just worked. The same day he put a little animated desktop character on it that takes voice commands for his agents. "I've been able to actually get all of this done in a single day. So that was a first." He has been in the AI and security weeds since NVIDIA Morpheus in 2019, on packet radio since the bulletin board days, into LoRaWAN and embedded systems, and he did head tracking from a webcam back in 2015 because a game had too many controls, so Called To Construct's eye tracking hit home. And he is finishing Omarchy Warp: a browser on another PC on your LAN becomes your second monitor, and the mouse glides across like it is one screen. Heath wants to talk to him about software defined radio. I told him I only heard a quarter of his story, so we are setting up the next Zoom. @thisisgm Flea's author had a week. Wednesday he ran out of tokens, so he spent the downtime tuning performance until he was measuring key to key input latency in file managers. Dolphin won at around 11 milliseconds a key, and Flea got close. Then on Friday somebody told him Qt got bumped to 6.12 in Omarchy's dev branch and it broke Flea. He asked on X whether stable had it too, and DHH himself replied. He pushed the new features out to 0.3.10 and got the fix out first. Tundy @thetundeo, the CEO of ZeroRAMP, sponsored more AI for Flea, and GM said thank you in front of everybody. What he wants most is people to hammer test it. Click around, try to break it, so he can spot what the AI cannot. Issues and PRs are always welcome, and he credits everybody, even if all you did was point out the issue. My specialty is breaking stuff. A month ago this was one guy in his apartment with the idea of a file manager, and now it is a whole thing worldwide. His line to everybody: "If I did it with a 9-to-5 and limited budget and tokens and time and all the excuses that people use to not make stuff, just prompt the AI, make something, put it out there." Wes says he will be the subject of a documentary one day. GM says it is a file manager. Sure. @hicsfh Chris closed us out with Atmos, and he is honest that he does not quite know what to call it: a config center, a control panel, a preference pane, a monitoring thing. The Windows control panel never worked as well as it could, and neither does Spotlight on a Mac. Atmos covers themes, Hyprland, default apps, your hardware down to the serial numbers, and Omarchy updates, and he just submitted it to the marketplace. He is a mouse person, 30 plus years of it, not a keyboard whiz and not a Neovim person, and he is okay with that. Wes: that is what makes Omarchy great, you make it what you want it to be. Omarchy exploded with Quattro, but it is still a small corner of X compared with the world, and most of our colleagues have not tried it. His ask: break it, then tell him instead of walking away. He is trying to figure out how to use AI to close the blind spots all of us have in our own apps. I use Atmos every hour. I made it a super hot key and it drops down like a Quake terminal. ASKS ON THE TABLE Join the X group chat @tim_sonner set up, and follow everybody in the room. We are small and we all like the same things. If you know somebody at a phone or hardware company, point them at Wes. He is serious about the Omarchy phone. Hammer test Flea and Atmos. Click around, try to break them, and tell GM and Chris what you find. @StudioXRadio 's Omarchy M4 alpha is headed for the wild. It is experimental, so read his disclaimer before you wipe anything. NEXT SUNDAY Same time, 3PM EST and X Spaces! The Top 10 list lost out to a room full of builders, so it keeps. @Shpaq4Fun was first in line and X would not promote him. Come back next week! If you did not get to speak today, we are sorry, please come back! And remember! Help an old lady across the street, and when you get her over there, put Omarchy on her laptop. Wes says we need a T-shirt for that. /Nix and Larry ## Transcript Machine generated. Speaker labels come from the transcription tool and are reused for different people; the summary says who is who. @ncfrontiersman: Hello. @ncfrontiersman: All right. @NixFred: Hey, what's up, Wes? Can you hear me all right? @ncfrontiersman: Hey, Fred. Let me see you here. @NixFred: Can you hear me? @ncfrontiersman: I sure can. @NixFred: All right. How do I sound? @ncfrontiersman: All right. @ncfrontiersman: Sound good? @ncfrontiersman: Sound good. @NixFred: Cool, cool. Hey, everybody, we're trying to get the chat going in this space and having a hard time finding where to open up the actual chat where people can post URLs and post their projects and stuff. Sometimes it's in the bottom next to the scissors, but I never see it. @NixFred: If anybody could post something in there just to get it started so we can all post our projects and follow each other, that'd be tremendous. @ncfrontiersman: Yep, sounds good. @NixFred: Crowdsourcing. @ncfrontiersman: I would pull it up on my phone, but I'm afraid I'll drop the X. @NixFred: Are you on your phone this... are you on your phone? @ncfrontiersman: No, no, I'm on the computer. @NixFred: Fantastic, fantastic. All right. @ncfrontiersman: Quite a few people early today. @ncfrontiersman: Yeah. @ncfrontiersman: I'd like to see it. @NixFred: Got to love them. There's Patrick and Catherine's here again. James, my man, I just had a conversation with him the other day. @NixFred: He's... @ncfrontiersman: Oh, yeah? @NixFred: Yeah. He's up at 3:00 AM right now over in Singapore just to be here. Thanks for waking up on us for us, James. @ncfrontiersman: Wow. Wow. Thanks, James. @ncfrontiersman: It's great to have you. @NixFred: Yeah. @ncfrontiersman: All right. @NixFred: And there's Basti, my man. @ncfrontiersman: Yeah, I'm glad I missed out with you guys, but I'll get you next time. @NixFred: Absolutely. You were missed, man. And there's Studio X. @ncfrontiersman: All right. Yeah, Studio. I saw Studio is doing some stuff with an M4. @NixFred: He is, man. And called the Construct from last week. @ncfrontiersman: Yep. @NixFred: Sven is here. He is hilarious. @NixFred: Hey, Sven, I just followed you back. If anybody... if you're following me and I'm not following you back, please hit a heart or something. @NixFred: I'm trying to get everybody I can. Johnny, got you. @NixFred: Cold, got you. Let's see here. @NixFred: Most every... oh, there's one, Barnes. Hey, man, everybody follow everybody here. @NixFred: Just by being here, we all have the same interest and we want to grow our fellowship. So follow everybody. @NixFred: Jack, got you. @ncfrontiersman: Yep. @NixFred: KGB, got you. @NixFred: I think that's it. @ncfrontiersman: That's it. Yeah, I think I'm going through now because I've missed a few as well. @NixFred: Yeah. @ncfrontiersman: Let's see. @ncfrontiersman: All right. Precious, is this your first time here? @ncfrontiersman: Welcome. @NixFred: Got it. @ncfrontiersman: Very good. @NixFred: What's going on this week, man? It's like every single week it gets crazier. @ncfrontiersman: I know. It has been crazy. @NixFred: And I feel like I do this like 12 hours a day and I still feel behind. So if you're feeling behind, everybody's feeling behind. @ncfrontiersman: Yeah. For sure. @ncfrontiersman: Let's see. Precious wants to speak for a second here. @ncfrontiersman: Well, it dropped off. Well, we will get to you after a few minutes here when we're opening up the floor to let everybody speak for sure that wants to. @NixFred: Yeah, there goes Chris. Chris Sallis. @ncfrontiersman: Chris, all right. Joel, what's up? Joel, how's it going, man? @NixFred: The Lord said he'd be here. @ncfrontiersman: There he is. Yep. There's Norman. @ncfrontiersman: Very good. @ncfrontiersman: All right. Two minutes and we already got a lot of people hopping in. @ncfrontiersman: Wonderful. It's going to be a good show. @ncfrontiersman: I'm excited. Fred, you've got... I think you've got a top 10 list for us from what I've heard. @NixFred: I always do. I think it shows my age a little bit from the David Letterman era, which a lot of people here probably don't even know who that is. @ncfrontiersman: You got your little index cards. @NixFred: Oh, yeah. @ncfrontiersman: Yeah. Just don't hit me when you throw it. @NixFred: Hey, one of these weeks, man, if you want, I'm going to drive up there and let's do this in person. @ncfrontiersman: Oh, that'd be cool. Never thought about that. Yeah, because you're in Atlanta. @NixFred: Yeah, yeah. I could drive up there, maybe come up on a Wednesday and spend the week with you. I'm just kidding. @NixFred: No, I would drive in just to do the show and come back. @ncfrontiersman: Leaves are changing pretty soon up here. Probably be a pretty drive through the mountains. @NixFred: Yeah, no doubt. There's Lee Shands, my man. Filling up. @NixFred: Again, if anybody can find where you actually post comments for the space, please light that up because we can never find it. And we want to have everybody be able to share their projects and follow each other. @ncfrontiersman: Yeah, I don't see it at all. @NixFred: I know. I look for it every time. I never can find it. @NixFred: Somebody out there's a lot smarter than us are going to find it. @ncfrontiersman: Probably. @NixFred: I wonder if it's on your actual post where you opened up the space itself. @ncfrontiersman: Could be. Let me see here. @ncfrontiersman: I don't see it there, and I do not want to click reconnect because I don't want to drop people, so. @NixFred: Yep. @ncfrontiersman: All right. We're almost there. We got one minute till time and plenty of folks, so I think we can get started on time today. @NixFred: All right. @ncfrontiersman: All right. Here we are. Fred said, "What's going on, man?" @NixFred: Hey, yeah, I had a great week. I've been monitoring my tokens better and staying on pace instead of burning everything on the first couple of days of my reset. So that's been nice. @NixFred: Got to chat with Basti this week. What an incredible dude. @NixFred: Got to chat with James over in Singapore. I'd still love to one-on-one chat with anybody. @NixFred: If you're interested in chatting, I'd love to hear about what you're up to and what you're doing. I know it seems strange to bounce from X over to a one-on-one chat, and that can be frightening and kind of weird, but I know that Portion and some other folks and Lee and James are reaching out and having one-on-one Zooms with folks, and I think that's how we grow. @ncfrontiersman: Yeah, man. I agree with that. @ncfrontiersman: A lot of life happens in the small conversations. @NixFred: Yes. @ncfrontiersman: I think that's wonderful. Well, all right. @NixFred: Yeah. So I'm going to kind of put together the week in one breath and kind of run through that. So last Sunday, we had 155 folks, and I think we're going to beat that this week, which is great because it's bringing the community together. @NixFred: We had 11 folks come up and speak, and they talked about the things that they had, and I bet we're going to at least do that this week. Ivan, I don't see him on. @NixFred: Ivan shipped out MeshCore Atlas, which allows to message your AI machine over the mesh radio. Catherine set up to launch her newsletter last Tuesday. @NixFred: Lee showed off the Big Button Companion, who is here today. And some of the big news, SpaceX donated $1.5 million in Grok tokens to the Omacore Foundation. @NixFred: And Namespace, the ARM folks gave a hundred grand for compute for ARM testing. Our buddy Josh Warren built an iPhone app on Omarchy that allows you to connect to it with no Mac at all, which is amazing. @NixFred: And about almost 10,000 people like that, which is insane. What else have we got? @NixFred: Ryan merged our own Ryan Hughes merged 111 comments of the Oppo Silicon into Omarchy itself, which Wes, I bet you had a hand in some of that stuff, which allows. @ncfrontiersman: Yeah, I had a couple commits in there. Yeah. @NixFred: Amazing. So Touch ID now works. The taskbar now works. @NixFred: And there's over 2,000 clones in two days on that project, which is crazy. And Wes, last week, you guessed that the marketplace passing 5,000 plugins, and this week we actually hit 5,100 something new plugins. @NixFred: And the last part is the official brand new X account at Omarchy announced that Caps Lock is going to be left alone in the next version. So I know that'll make a lot of folks here happy. @NixFred: So that's kind of what happened this week. We'll do the top 10 list a little bit later, but what do you got for us, Wes? @ncfrontiersman: Yeah, that's a lot of stuff. That's incredible. I really love focusing on what the people in this crew are building. @ncfrontiersman: To me, that's the coolest thing is just to see where everybody's minds at and what they're cooking, right? So I'm loving to hear that. @ncfrontiersman: One other thing I saw in the community that DHH posted was there's going to be a Hyperlane remote, basically like a remote desktop app coming. @NixFred: Yeah, Grif, G-L-I-F-F, Glyph. I downloaded it and started playing around with it a little bit. The one thing it lacks is a front end. @NixFred: So I'm working on a little easy button or something for that. @ncfrontiersman: Okay. Yeah, there's an opportunity right there. Because, yeah, that's coming from the other Windows and Mac. @ncfrontiersman: It was nice to have that ability to do remote desktop, but it looks like we're getting it. So pretty sweet what you can do these days so quickly. @ncfrontiersman: But yeah, yeah, I'm kind of I kind of called this week Sunday Builders Club because all of us are building something. And whether it's an app or we're building up our resume or we're building up our legacy, all these things we're building up. @ncfrontiersman: And I'd love to just share with each other in that building and help build each other up, right? And so what can we do to share in people's successes? @ncfrontiersman: And when people are struggling, lift the other up and help them out. And so that's kind of what we're all about here. @ncfrontiersman: And so I feel like, yeah, I want to start spotlighting more and more people here and what you all are building and how you're building it and kind of dig in more into beyond the surface of I created a cool plugin to I built a product or a solution or something, and I've got maybe some customers coming to it or I'm working to support this thing. What do I do? @ncfrontiersman: I'm feeling overwhelmed. I'm getting all these tickets coming in or getting these issues coming in. @ncfrontiersman: And how do we manage that flow that starts happening once the euphoria wears off if I build this cool thing? Because it comes in waves, but yeah, I think it would be cool for us to dive into that a little bit today. @ncfrontiersman: And if anybody is kind of in the midst of building and launching something and you need some advice or just another pair of digital eyes, rubber duck, we're here so we can talk about it. But yeah. @NixFred: Yeah. So this whole space originally, you as the host, was originally your idea. And it wasn't, what, I guess, four weeks ago we started this and the idea was to help the newcomers. @NixFred: And I think you smartly have kind of pivoted that most of the people here are not newcomers and they're actually starting to build stuff. And small pivots, we still want to help our newbies that come in, but I think the listeners are starting to come in and they're like, "Okay, I got the new stuff. @NixFred: I'm good with that. What's the next step?" @NixFred: And I think you brilliantly are pivoting to the Builders Club versus the Newbie Club, and I love it. @ncfrontiersman: Yeah. And anybody can be a builder, right? I mean, we're definitely going to dig in more and go deeper here, but I mean, building just means you're willing to roll your sleeves up. @ncfrontiersman: And the first sign of trouble or problem you hit, you're willing to put your head down and just keep pushing. Keep pounding like the Panthers football team slogan is. @ncfrontiersman: Just keep pounding, right? Because it's not all pretty. @ncfrontiersman: It's not all roses. I mean, there's going to be headwinds, especially when you're doing something worthwhile. @ncfrontiersman: But in the end, man, the payoff is great. And it's satisfaction that you get from helping people or building something cool is amazing. @ncfrontiersman: So yeah. @NixFred: And you mentioned that euphoria a couple of minutes ago, and that word really sunk in with me because I don't know about you guys, but for me, it's still a whole lot of fun, but sometimes it's starting to feel like work a little bit when I'm really wanting to get something right to put out and make it worthwhile, make it usable for other folks. It's still fun, but there is a little that work feeling kind of creeps in. Is that happening to you, Wes? @ncfrontiersman: Yeah. It has. And I've noticed that I've been using AI. @ncfrontiersman: My job was pretty forward in all of this. Before Opus 4.5 came out even, we were going full bore into it when it was still very... I mean, it probably is still somewhat, but controversial. @ncfrontiersman: And you go through all the phases of AI psychosis, and so it's like the stages of grief, right? You're like, "Man, everything I learned doesn't even matter anymore." @ncfrontiersman: But then you kind of go through that and you go, "Oh, man, I could build anything in the world. This is amazing." @ncfrontiersman: And then you kind of come back down to earth for a little bit and you're like, "Well, I can, but I don't know if I can support everything." I don't know if is this really just because I can, does that mean I should kind of thing? @ncfrontiersman: And then you kind of settle into this spot where it's like, "Wow, actually, I have a lot of new superpowers and tools at my disposal to build pretty much anything I put my mind to, but I still got to put my mind to it. And I still got to do the hard work of figuring out what it is." @ncfrontiersman: Depends on what you're doing. If you're building a product to release out there, what is it that is this actually solving a need or is this a solution in search of a problem kind of thing? @NixFred: Yeah. Yeah. And I know you've done the same with Omastorm, and I've done the same with some of my Blip and Infomarchy, is that I kind of run out of ideas of what to do with it, and I feel like the code's pretty tight. @NixFred: And the magic happened for me with Blip and with Infomarchy that you open it up for PRs and people, like a lot of folks in this room, start throwing in PRs and they come up with features and break or fixes and ideas that I never would have come up with. So it's kind of like this push and pull between like it's like Omastorm is yours, but I've seen you accept PRs and pull other features and things into your project. @NixFred: And it's a hard thing to figure out. I feel so guilty when somebody comes up with a Blip idea and I'm like, "Not really the vision. @NixFred: Don't want to do that." And I try to be kind about it. @NixFred: Does that happen to you? @ncfrontiersman: Yeah. Oh, yeah. I mean, people on this call, I mean, I love everybody here. @ncfrontiersman: I love all the contributions. But there are some things that come in that just they're wonderful and they'd be great on their own in their own app, but they're not really part of the vision of what I'm building. @ncfrontiersman: I'm like a ruthless prioritizer because every new feature I add is like tech day. It's like something else I have to worry about. @ncfrontiersman: Even if the initial code that comes in is awesome and it works well, well, what if that relies on a dependency and external library or package or something? And then down the road, that thing gets updated to a new version comes out of it. @ncfrontiersman: All of a sudden, now I've got that burden of figuring out what do I have to change in my app to make it work with it? Or if vulnerabilities come in, security vulnerabilities, I got to worry about that now. @ncfrontiersman: And then it's kind of like anytime you put something new out there, people are going to begin to expect that that always exists. That feature, you add that feature, and all of a sudden, if you ever think about taking it away, well, you better think twice. @NixFred: Yeah. I've also gotten folks that'll I've also had folks like on Blip that say, "Hey, I've got a Macintosh that's seven versions behind. Will you please make it work for that one?" @NixFred: I'm like, "I don't even have one." @ncfrontiersman: Right. Right. Right. @ncfrontiersman: Yeah, exactly. And sometimes it's not always like a yes or no, like, "Oh, I'm not going to do this." @ncfrontiersman: Sometimes it's like, "Let me take a step back. Is there something I can change in my app that makes it easier for them to do what they want to do in their environment without totally taking on that whole solution?" @ncfrontiersman: So example, I can't remember who it was. Somebody wanted Omastorm to follow the GPS location where based on the laptop's GPS sensor, I'm like, "Well, not everybody's got GPS on their laptop." @ncfrontiersman: So I don't want to add that and then have this branch of my code. What if I come up with a way to have a hook system or a config that is kind of just sits on the outside and then they can build their thing that sits kind of outside of Omastorm and give it the location and then Omastorm doesn't have to worry about how it got the location? @ncfrontiersman: So it's kind of an example of you can still help almost like if you're building a plugin system or something, that's a little bit more involved, but taking a step back and thinking compromise is always involved just like everything in life. @NixFred: Yeah. The other thing is when I tell people, "No," I think there's kind of a we're almost at the edge of it starting to happen. But a lot of times when I say no, I really highly encourage them to say, "Go fork it and make it yours and do your own thing." @NixFred: And so we talked about earlier when we started the space that your brain is the only limitation. If you can speak what you want to do and tell it, "I like that. @NixFred: I don't like that," then you can do it. And I think people are still in the proprietary software mind where they email or chat with the creator and say, "Will you update it to do this?" @NixFred: And I want to say, "Listen, you can do this yourself. You don't have to wait on me to do it. @NixFred: You can fork it and make it your own." And as soon as people do that, then they find problems with my code and they PR and everybody is happy. @ncfrontiersman: Yeah, totally. That's a great example. It's like, "Don't wait on me to fix it for you. @ncfrontiersman: You take care of do what you want. Make it how you want. @ncfrontiersman: And then kind of later on, we can figure out if it makes sense for this product or not." @NixFred: That's right. That's right. @ncfrontiersman: Yep. I totally agree with that. Yeah. @ncfrontiersman: So yeah, it's something else. Once you get beyond that, man, I built this cool thing and people love it and get down into brass tacks, that's where sometimes you hit those headwinds, but it's just part of it. @ncfrontiersman: You just got to be willing to ride that out and just take it one step at a time and keep focused on what was my original intention in building this? Who is it for? @ncfrontiersman: Is it just for me or is it for the greater group of people or whatnot? And adding nobody wants an app with 1,000 features. @ncfrontiersman: They want apps that are targeted that do the job that was initially purported to do well. It's kind of like being a jack of all trades but a master of none. @NixFred: Yeah. Now, do you find like I find that I just start building stuff for myself and then it starts to occur, "Well, maybe some other folks might like what I'm doing." Do you start out with, "Everybody's going to want this, so I'll make it"? @NixFred: Or do you start out with, "I need this," and then, "Oh my gosh, everybody would like to have this"? @ncfrontiersman: I mean, I've tried both ways, but the way of trying to find what everybody else likes, that's a lot harder. To do it right, you need to do the market research and you need to do these trials and interview. I mean, that's what whole businesses are formed around. @ncfrontiersman: And I think it's almost like a shortcut or a cheat code. If you find something that's right around you, right, that is a problem that you need solved, and you solve it for yourself. @ncfrontiersman: And then you sit there and when you solve it, you take it through every edge case and you actually use it. You actually try it out in all these different ways. @ncfrontiersman: And then every time you run into a bug in it or an issue or something that feels like it has friction and it shouldn't, take the time to fix it then and then release it. I mean, there's nothing new under the sun. @ncfrontiersman: Most of these problems that we encounter, we're not the only people on Earth encountering them. So there's going to be and with the World Wide Web, you put something out there, with the right channel, it can get in front of anybody's eyes that need it. @ncfrontiersman: And so I think that's where I would always start because if you're not passionate about it, if you're building something just to make I mean, there's nothing wrong with doing things to make money. That's great. @ncfrontiersman: But if that's your only focus, I think you're going to have a harder time because the passion isn't going to be there to drive you through the hard parts when you don't things aren't going well and you're like, "Well, the heck with this. I'm just going to abandon it." @ncfrontiersman: Versus you building something that you love and use yourself, you're going to keep working on that and proving that. It just comes more naturally, I think. @NixFred: Amen. My grandfather used to say, "If you go after the money, you'll never get it. If you do the job right, it'll hit you in the back of the head." @ncfrontiersman: That's right. That's right. That's right. @ncfrontiersman: So true. Well, wow, we've got a crew here today. @ncfrontiersman: I don't know if anything else you want to talk about, Fred? You want to open up the floor? @NixFred: Yeah. I don't mean to put you on the spot, but do you want to talk about and it's okay if you don't. Do you want to talk about your phone idea that you're broadcasting and trying to get a couple of folks? @ncfrontiersman: Oh, yeah. Yes. I would love to. @NixFred: Hit it, man. Let's hear what's your idea and what do you think? @ncfrontiersman: Okay. So number one, I hate software keyboards on phones. I love hardware keyboards. @ncfrontiersman: And it's been frustrating lately. I don't know. @ncfrontiersman: It's probably not even just iPhone. Maybe it's Android too, but it's like I'm typing, typos everywhere. @ncfrontiersman: I've got bigger fingers, so sometimes that's an issue. But I felt like with the tactile keyboard, you could almost not even look at it and you could feel where the keys were. @ncfrontiersman: And it's like I saw that this company, the Minimal company, has a phone that it's simple. It's got a hardware keyboard. @ncfrontiersman: It does what you need it to do and then kind of gets out of the way. I love that. @ncfrontiersman: And I'm like, "You know what? That's kind of like Omarchy in a way is you build a tool crafted to just what you need." @ncfrontiersman: And then if we could have that on the phone because computer is great. Laptops are great, desktop, all that. @ncfrontiersman: But we're not always tied some of us aren't always tied to our desk. We want to get out and do things or we don't have the opportunity to always sit at the desk and work on things. @ncfrontiersman: And it's like back to my iPhone again. And so my thought is, number one, it would be really cool because with this phone concept, just like we're building anything we can dream up on Omarchy, think about you've got your phone, you've got the GPS, the camera. @ncfrontiersman: It's all kind of compressed down in this device you can take anywhere with you. And there's so many use cases to where you could build these highly customized apps that you're basically like Star Trek. @ncfrontiersman: You've got your tripod right in your hand. And to be able to have the ability to build and optimize and customize without that Apple walled garden of waiting to get it approved in the app store and all that stuff. @ncfrontiersman: I just think it would be cool. And I'm surprised that I know that there's reasons why. @ncfrontiersman: Probably bureaucrats and red tape are involved somewhere into why you can't just install anything on a phone. But I just think that if we could find one of these companies that's willing to be a hardware company, first and foremost, and not so focused on owning the software side of it, then it could open it up and allow us to come in there. @ncfrontiersman: If they gave us the drivers we needed or access to the hardware we needed, we could build a really cool mobile OS in Omarchy. I believe we could do it. @ncfrontiersman: And so that's my thought. I would love to be able to do that. @ncfrontiersman: I know that one company has a new phone coming out in December. It's for pre-order. @ncfrontiersman: To me, something with a physical keyboard that is kind of a lower price point for a brand new mobile phone that is ARM-based because I don't think Apple will open up their devices ever. @NixFred: Not going to happen. Not going to happen. You'd have to give up a bunch of revenue to do that. @ncfrontiersman: Right. And so, yeah, I don't know. Or like the framework company that makes the computers, laptops, what if they made a phone? @ncfrontiersman: How cool would that be? So yeah, that's my hope. @ncfrontiersman: I mean, if it's not them, hopefully somebody else. Yeah. @ncfrontiersman: So I'm just putting the call out there that I'm willing to do it. And with the kernel work I did recently on the Apple Studio Display and just seeing how these new models work, like Opus 5.5, unless there is some very locked-down security encryption issue on the hardware, I don't see how it could not be solved. @ncfrontiersman: So yeah. @NixFred: That's amazing, man. I support you. And if I can help you, I will. @NixFred: Hey, we do have a couple of speakers. And I just want to tell everybody that if you request to speak, we do see it. @NixFred: Please don't retract it. Just give us some time to get to each person. @NixFred: We want to let everybody speak. And what do you want to do next, man? @ncfrontiersman: Yeah. Yeah. Let's see. @ncfrontiersman: So a couple of people have requested. Others want to put the call out there. @ncfrontiersman: If you're building something and you're kind of at that phase where you're past the, "This is awesome," and you're at the, "Oh, crap. What do I do now?" @ncfrontiersman: I'd love to talk. I'd love to hear where you're at. @ncfrontiersman: And as a group, we can kind of chat through it. So raise your hand for that. @ncfrontiersman: I'll go ahead and we've got a couple of people lined up. We'll get them through. @ncfrontiersman: And then the rest of y'all start requesting and we'll try to get through you. Sound good? @NixFred: Yeah. And let's just remember to be focused on the topic so as many people can speak as possible. So do you want me to approve them and you speak to them, or do you want to just do both of us do it together? @NixFred: How do you want to do that? @ncfrontiersman: Yeah. Let's kind of tag team because I am sort of losing my voice today. @NixFred: All right. Well, I've got the request speakers up. I'll start lining them up and you knock them down. @NixFred: And I think the first one was Shapeek. So let's see what that person has to say. @ncfrontiersman: Sounds good, Shapeek. @NixFred: Now we're running into that problem again where it doesn't promote them. This is every week. @ncfrontiersman: Yeah. It seems to take a little bit. We'll go ahead and approve DevSec and Neil. @ncfrontiersman: See if any of those pop in. @NixFred: There we go. @ncfrontiersman: All right. DevSec, what's going on? @devsec_ai: What's up, guys? Good to be here. @NixFred: Hey, man. Thanks for coming by. @devsec_ai: Hey. Thanks for doing it. Appreciate it. @devsec_ai: So a few things, right? Just wanted to echo a couple of the stuff that you guys mentioned here, which is very true. @devsec_ai: So as you guys saw, even my app, Uber Notebook, which was a it's a massive application, I think close to like 50,000 likes, I believe. And yes, I do agree with the sentiment that with the entire sentiment of at one point, you're going to come to a roadblock where you're going to say, "Okay, how do I maintain this? @devsec_ai: Or how am I going to pass that security review when I send it to the marketplace?" And etc. @devsec_ai: Right? And just a couple of tips to the community as we're as things go from my experience in cybersecurity as well is that the way you approach it is my recommendation is let's say you've already submitted a few apps and you already know what the maintainer is looking for. @devsec_ai: Have your agent go and look at every single comment made raised as an issue and have it build a skill for you based on those issues that it commented before because it looks like whatever app you're building or the way you were instructing your agent, that agent is basically following basically your prompt. So essentially what that means is that you probably have common patterns that can be resolved by a skill, right? @devsec_ai: So that's one thing that you can do. The second thing is, yes, after a while, it's going to become a chore. @devsec_ai: And that chore is code review, making sure that all those bugs and security vulnerabilities are out of the way. And the only way to do that is, unfortunately, it's going to take a time. @devsec_ai: But I always say, look at it on the bright side because this kind of work used to take months to do, right? It used to be a physical peer review among people. @devsec_ai: So now you have maybe five hours in ultra code while you're sleeping to come up with the majority of the stuff. And then some of the stuff, maybe you look in the code and you find the issues and you fix it. @devsec_ai: But just look at the bright side. What used to take months is now taking days and weeks. @devsec_ai: So yeah, yes, it's frustrating in the sense that sometimes you just want that product out there. But it's also important to make note of the fact that if that goes out and you have bugs or you have UI/UX issues that are not actually meaningful to people, what is going to happen is they're going to toss it aside, right? @devsec_ai: And then good and then getting them back on to use it again, it is going to be that much more difficult. So as painful as it is, but I do want to echo one more sentiment. @devsec_ai: I don't want to take the entire I don't want to suck the air out here. But I just wanted one more thing to mention here is that one of the biggest things I think we, as we build, have to take account for is the maintainability. @devsec_ai: And the reason I say that is because we have people are building all the time. And I've came up with this term, and I don't know if I'm the original one or somebody else probably did as well. @devsec_ai: Nothing is original anymore in the days of AI, is the disposable apps mentality where a lot of apps are getting built so fast and then they just get they just get forgotten about it, right? So what that's going to do is it is going to open an enormous it's going to create an enormous waste and security vulnerability. @devsec_ai: So as you're building, like you guys mentioned, build something meaningful, build something that you want to maintain because at one point, it's going to come down to the fact that if you don't maintain it, then what happens? And I'm sure that Omarchi's maintainers will eventually come up with a way to if you haven't maintained your app for a period of time, they'll probably delist you, which is the right thing to do. @devsec_ai: But I think in general, keep in mind what you're building. If it is only for you, it's one thing. @devsec_ai: But if it's for a large audience, I think that maintainability is going to be important. @NixFred: Well, so true. Man, so many good points in that. I mean, I'm thinking about it. @NixFred: When we build a product, yeah, it's cool. And yes, it's something that we've conquered or whatever. @NixFred: But it's like with great what is it? With great success comes great responsibility. @NixFred: With great power comes great responsibility. You have the responsibility now to make sure that you're not causing issues for people using it and making their lives worse, right? @NixFred: Building these apps are great, but if you all of a sudden put something out there with a vulnerability in it and it wipes their computer, that's not good. I mean, there's liability issues there for sure, but I mean, also, it's just kind of not cool. @NixFred: So it's something we definitely should keep at the top of our mind as we're building. And it's not like you said, it just takes hours now to do these deep reviews. @NixFred: It's not like it used to be. But it is something you still need to at least keep at the top of your mind. @NixFred: And maintainability is another great point. It's easy to generate code. @NixFred: It's hard to go back and make surgical changes to that code and not break other things, right? So we have to keep that in mind. @NixFred: And there's some people that say, "Well, what if tokens become so expensive and then we have to go back to writing by hand? How would you handle it?" @NixFred: I don't think that's going to happen, but you almost should kind of think about it like, "What if one day I had to deal with this by hand? Would I be able to make a fix?" @NixFred: And if not, then maybe that's one of two things. Maybe you need to do some learning. @NixFred: Use these AI tools to teach yourself the language that it's writing in and ways you can understand. And also just kind of prompt it and say, "Hey, keep this code maintainable, clean. @NixFred: Just provide the smallest possible implementation of this that is functional." And so these are good things to think about. @NixFred: All right. Looks like Fred dropped out for a second, but. @devsec_ai: No, I'm here. I'm here. @NixFred: Oh, you're here. Okay, cool. You're back. @NixFred: Very good. So it looks like Neil is up next. @neil404: Hey, everybody. Thanks for having me on. Appreciate it. @NixFred: Yeah. Thanks for coming. @neil404: So I'm probably doing everything wrong because it's only this year that I found out how good AI is. And I was never a software programmer before, but it's unlocked so much for me in terms of what I've been able to build, even just for personal or just for work. I kind of work in a public sector. @neil404: So it's like criminal defense, public defenders, that kind of stuff. And I'm building a product called Exculpta, and it's for exculpatory. @neil404: But it's basically to where small teams that are broke, publicly funded, can put their entire case into it and kind of have their discovery analyzed by local AI, have their questions answered, any media is automatically transcribed, indexed, just to make things more efficient for people. @ncfrontiersman: Oh, wow. I love that. @neil404: But it's super tough. @NixFred: I've heard of several I've heard of several court cases where they put in a briefing and the opposing counsel asked them about their citations and they're all completely made up. Have you heard about that happening? @neil404: I have. And that's why my what I'm trying to do isn't to do anything with legal writing. So it's like imagine you were handed a case file with 30 body cams and here's all this evidence and statements and transcripts. @neil404: And how do you make sense of that when you have 70 cases already and best represent your client without missing something, right? And it's not like you have a staff of 100 people to go through everything. @neil404: So you almost want to use your own local AI if you can or Frontier if you're available, although a lot of this stuff's confidential. So that's not really an option. @neil404: It's just a way to be like, "How can we make our paralegals and investigators 1,000 times more effective?" One of the things I'm hoping to do that's just now starting to work is you drop in all your discovery. @neil404: It automatically finds the people's places, things, and events. So that way, it can build a chronology. @neil404: Or here's all your cast of characters. Here's when things happen. @neil404: Link it to the original source. @NixFred: Yep. That is so cool. Yeah. @NixFred: What's coming to mind as you're saying this is we're talking about deterministic versus non-deterministics. And when you build with these AI models, right, how do you get something close to deterministic, meaning a predictable outcome when you're working with something that isn't always predictable? @NixFred: And writing these I don't know. I assume you're building a system prompt or skills or something to work through this information. @NixFred: You want to tell us a little bit about that? @neil404: So for the most part, it's just like a workbench. So imagine you have a Linux server with whatever GPUs you can find and you install this and it hosts itself in Docker. And then it basically just accepts whatever documents, OCRs them, indexes them, whatever media it transcribes, diarizes, saves all that into SQLite databases and vectors and then graph where people place things. @neil404: And then you pick your own models in the background. And then you can ask it questions like, "Okay, when did such and such happen? @neil404: I'm looking for this." And it searches it and re-ranks and then brings you just cited sources back. @neil404: And that's kind of where I'm at right now. The toughest part of this for me is I'm the only one building this. @neil404: I'm not aware of any other utilities, which is why I'm building it, because you have all these companies that want to charge public service people, I mean, hundreds of thousands of dollars that nobody has money for. And I'm sure rich criminal lawyers have these utilities available. @neil404: But I wanted to be one of the only ones that can why not try to do it for free and just put it out there for everybody? @NixFred: I love it. I love it. That's awesome, man. @NixFred: Well, thanks for sharing. Yeah, share the link to it. @NixFred: I don't know if anybody's figured out how to get the chat on, but. @NixFred: Yeah, his name is Neil of his name is Neil of Neils on GitHub. I just retweeted the it's called workbench-osss. I believe that's correct. @neil404: So I had to change his name because I just found out this week that there's a company in Portland that has the same record bench. So now it's exclpata.com. And that takes you right to the repo that changed now. @NixFred: I just retweeted it and I just followed you. So go check it out, everybody. @neil404: Thanks, guys. @NixFred: Yeah. @NixFred: You bet. @ncfrontiersman: Thanks for speaking, Neil. @NixFred: Good to hear from you. @ncfrontiersman: Yep. All right. Let's see. @ncfrontiersman: I think Lee's up. @NixFred: My man Lee. What's up, brother? @NotJustShaking: Hey, guys. Hope everyone's well. This is really not anything that I built or going to be building. @NotJustShaking: It was just a suggestion to whereas you and Fred and maybe the whole group, one of you guys had ever thought about setting up a Slack for this group. So meetings would go better. @NotJustShaking: The ability to share people's work would be better. You could set up groups where people could work on their particular plugins and tools that they're building. @NotJustShaking: Whole host of stuff. I'm not going to spend too long on this, but I guess the thing would be cost. @NotJustShaking: So my thoughts are, I wonder if Omicom could help with the cost, at least initially for a couple of months, see if it works. If it doesn't, we just throw it away. @NotJustShaking: Or worst case scenario, people chip in every month or whatever. Just a suggestion. @NotJustShaking: That's all. @ncfrontiersman: You know what? I mean, I think Fred and I talked about this before. I wanted some way for us to continue this conversation after the Sunday chats throughout the week. @ncfrontiersman: And I really like that idea. I personally like Slack better than Discord. @ncfrontiersman: Discord's a little crazy for me, but other people like Discord. But I would go to Slack. @ncfrontiersman: But we'll think about it and we'll report back for next week and let y'all know. I mean, does anybody else have interest in joining or creating a community like that where we can chat kind of throughout the week and work on stuff together? @NixFred: Yeah, we talked about Discord. And I have tried to love Discord, and I just can't get there. Maybe it's the Gen X in me, but it's just too much. @ncfrontiersman: Yeah. I know. I'm with you. @ncfrontiersman: I'm the same way. I mean, Slack might even have a free version. @ncfrontiersman: So we can look at it and get something going because I do think I think that's how this community grows more is because we only get, what, an hour, hour and a half, and there's so much more conversation to be had, so. @NixFred: Yeah. And I feel like we leave people hanging sometimes because we just run out of time, and I feel terrible about that. @ncfrontiersman: Yeah. Yeah. Well, I appreciate you bringing that up, Lee. @ncfrontiersman: We'll get some movement going on that. Thank you. @ncfrontiersman: Called to construct. What's happening, man? @ncfrontiersman: Are your grandkids still playing video games? They started writing their own? @calledtocnstrct: Well, actually, yeah, to an extent, I'll speak a little bit more on that. Another couple of quick thoughts I had, though, in response to the Slack channel. Of course, an X chat might help there as well. @NixFred: That's a good idea. @calledtocnstrct: The other thing was Neil was just talking about the platform that he's building. And I just found it fascinating because for the company I work for, I just built, and we're just releasing this last week, we just released publicly a medical document system that does something very similar, looks at a person's medical charts, and that allows you to search and explore. So I thought that was just fascinating, Neil, that you're working on that. @NixFred: You know what, man? You guys should use a cheat code. Follow each other, create a chat, and you don't have to merge your code, but maybe you could help each other cherry-pick the things that work for you. @NixFred: I do that all the time. You don't have to accept all their software. @NixFred: Just cherry-pick the stuff that you need. @calledtocnstrct: Exactly. Yeah. And I'm excited to do that after this Builders Club. @calledtocnstrct: As far as the thing that I worked on this last week was actually something that and I just want to make sure that my voice is coming through clear. I'm not getting in the. @NixFred: You sound great. You sound great. @calledtocnstrct: Okay. Great. @ncfrontiersman: I can hear you. Yep. @calledtocnstrct: So back in February, when I realized that AI had reached a point where I could actually just build something from a prompt without having to dig too much into the technology of it, I started working on little games for the grandkids. And one of the things that I really wanted to be able to do was to be able to build games that supported eye-tracking devices because I have a grandson who has cerebral palsy. And he's non-verbal, and his motor control doesn't give him the ability @calledtocnstrct: to use joysticks or things like that. So eye-tracking is a way to communicate with the world. @calledtocnstrct: Between that and slight facial expressions or gestures. And so eye-tracking is huge in his world. @calledtocnstrct: And what I found was that not only could I not get the AI to be able to interface with the eye-tracking device, I wasn't able to even purchase access to an SDK, which amazed me. I reached out to several people, and I was devastated. @calledtocnstrct: So that was back in February. Amazing how things have changed in just a few short months. @calledtocnstrct: And so the other day, I sat down on my deck in the nice, cool evening air, and I plugged in an eye-tracking device, and I asked the AI to build a driver or whatever was needed to interface with it. And 30 minutes later, it was working. @ncfrontiersman: Wow. Wow. @calledtocnstrct: So if I said, "What I'm building, it's nothing spectacular." I mean, it's nothing major. It's very small, but just a way to talk to the eye tracker that I have. @calledtocnstrct: What I'm hoping to do soon is to start buying each of the versions of different eye-tracking devices that are publicly accessible because a lot of them are behind walled gardens from the medical industry. But anything that I can buy from a commercial standpoint and then enhance that interface to make that happen. @calledtocnstrct: And amazingly, it also built a WebSocket interface. So now I can even just build an HTML web page that hooks into that WebSocket and then can see where the eye is looking. @calledtocnstrct: And so I've now built three little games for the grandkids that can play them, but also for using the eye-tracking. They're all compatible with eye-tracking. @calledtocnstrct: And so it's just been amazing to be able to play around and kind of experience the world from his point of view, from my grandson's point of view. It's not as easy as it might sound to just look at something and activate it. @calledtocnstrct: And so anyway, but that's one of the things I've been building. I try not to multitask too much because, like was said earlier, like jack of all trades. @calledtocnstrct: But there's work I'm doing to try to move risk and vulnerability, visibility, risk and vulnerability support in the package repository and be able to bring Omarchi to corporations and things like that. And I've been working with someone to prepare the documentation needed to bring Omarchi to Military or Gov as well. @calledtocnstrct: And those are all things that I'm time-slicing and making progress on as well as other projects. But this new ability to use the eye-tracking has just blown my mind. @calledtocnstrct: And I'm so happy that it's just been crazy to think of. And that has opened my mind to a whole new set of possibilities that I can't even go into. @calledtocnstrct: It's just like too big, too crazy to even think about right now. But I've been building some documentation around that concept. @calledtocnstrct: And so anyway. @NixFred: I just DM'd you a repo that's got 50,000 likes. It's by a user of M-O-R-L-U-T-O on GitHub. And it's called Reverse Engineer Anything. @NixFred: And it's a playbook to help you reverse engineer stuff. And I think that might help you out. @NixFred: And I've also sent you an eye-tracking software that I kind of put together. It's a piece of crap, but maybe you can find some little cherry-picking nuggets to use. @calledtocnstrct: Oh, that is beautiful. Thank you so much. @NixFred: Yeah, man. Keep up the good work, man. It's amazing. @calledtocnstrct: Thanks. @ncfrontiersman: Yeah. I love that. Wonderful. @ncfrontiersman: Well, it's good to have you. I hope you have a great rest of your Sunday and a good week coming up, man. @NixFred: Yeah, reach out to me and Wes either way. I think we both follow you and we care about you and we want to help, man. @ncfrontiersman: That's right. All right, studio. I think you're up. @StudioXRadio: All right, guys. @NixFred: Hey, Wes, you're going to freaking I hope you guys know each other because you're both on the M team. @StudioXRadio: I think we know that. What's up, everyone? @NixFred: Well, I'll just be in the corner if you guys need me. @StudioXRadio: This is great. And somebody said they don't like Discord because they're Gen X. It took me I'm Gen X. @StudioXRadio: I'm about four years in, and I'm just starting to like it. So don't give up. @StudioXRadio: I think you could like it. I think you could get there. @StudioXRadio: Hi, everyone. I'm Studio X Radio, AKA KB2UKA, AKA Doug Serrato. @StudioXRadio: I have a lot of aliases out there. Real quick, let me just give you my dev background, which is nothing, okay? @StudioXRadio: I own a financial advisory firm. In March, April of this year, I started teaching myself how to use LLMs and prompting AI. @StudioXRadio: I've always been a glorified dork, and I'm an amateur radio operator, actually. It's been a hobby of mine since I was 12 years old. @StudioXRadio: And what got me interested in working with AI, there was no Linux or Mac software-defined radio software that was really readily available. So a buddy and I got together and we created one, which now is the most popular amateur radio software since April. @StudioXRadio: We have 1,200 users, which is actually big in this niche, and it's really taking off. So I learned how to use AI in what I believe is a difficult way because the software we were building was talking to hardware and complicated hardware, transmitting thousands of watts of power, front end, back end. @StudioXRadio: And I think that helped me with this M4 project, okay? Now, selfishly, I have a bunch of Mac equipment around here. @StudioXRadio: Like right now, my daily driver is Omarchi on an i9, a 2020 iMac. And I have an M4 Pro, which I'm not working on yet. @StudioXRadio: That's next. Mac Mini, which I want to turn into the daily driver, but I figured, let me start with the M4. @StudioXRadio: So right now in my hand, I believe I'm holding the first USB installer for Omarchi M4 Mac. It just finished completing. @NixFred: Oh my gosh. Yes, yes, yes, yes. @ncfrontiersman: You're here first. @StudioXRadio: All right. Literally, I have not installed it yet. I have it installed on my air, but that was the dev version, okay? @StudioXRadio: This will be the release. I'm going to test it when this space is over. @StudioXRadio: So here's where I am. Omarchi now boots natively from the internal SSD on the M4 MacBook Air. @StudioXRadio: The GPU desktop, trackpad, Wi-Fi, Bluetooth mouse, speaker, audio codec, they're all working. I have USB working on one port. @StudioXRadio: And I'm probably going to release anyway because that'll be a quick fix. This is going to be a big work in progress. @StudioXRadio: But the port nearest to the hinge of the monitor, that one's live. This is the big one. @StudioXRadio: I have actual hardware video decoding. It's supported for H.264 and VP9. @StudioXRadio: Any unsupported formats or protected content will roll back to CPU rendering. But that's clean as well right now. @StudioXRadio: And from my research, Mac actually does that, but they have more supported hardware profiles than this has yet, but it will have more. What else? @StudioXRadio: This builds on Omarchi, Ashi, and Gravity Linux. I was adapting, integrating, debugging, and packaging that stack specifically for the M4 Air. @StudioXRadio: And like I said, the first private installer is ready. It's in my hand. @StudioXRadio: And when this ends, I'm going to go through I'm going to wipe my dev build off the Mac Air. I'm going to reload. @StudioXRadio: I'm going to launch macOS. I'm going to pop this bad boy in. @StudioXRadio: And I'm going to run through the tests as any of you would. And somebody earlier also mentioned that we don't want to do releases till we know things won't break anything. @StudioXRadio: So this is an experiment, and I agree with that. This is an experimental release. @StudioXRadio: And when I open up the repo, I'm going to put a very big disclaimer that if you're a daily Mac user and you're not into deving and prompting AI and all of that, I'm not going to recommend they download it yet. But the community's been asking for it. @StudioXRadio: It does work. So I'm going to release it into the wild, hopefully in the next couple of hours. @ncfrontiersman: That's amazing, man. Great job. @NixFred: You talk about you're a new guy, but man, the things that you're talking about and dropping are you're not new. That's ridiculous. @StudioXRadio: Well, in the world of AI, we're getting new LLMs every two weeks. So I guess you're right. I'm not new. @NixFred: In that case, we're all new, man. And I truly believe that we this is like we're not even 10% done. I think that we still will look back at this time with AI and laugh about how. @StudioXRadio: Inferior. @NixFred: Yeah. @ncfrontiersman: Yeah. No kidding. @StudioXRadio: I agree. It's a load of fun. Like I said, this was something I was always interested in. @StudioXRadio: I sat down multiple times in the last 35 years. I'm 46 years old with coding books and teaching myself to code. @StudioXRadio: And then babies came and the wife came and business came, and I just never brought myself to get proficient in it. And like I tell a lot of people, when the chainsaw was invented, I didn't see too many lumberjacks swinging an axe anymore, right? @StudioXRadio: So I'm loving it. And I'm very happy to be here. @StudioXRadio: So thanks for asking me to speak. @ncfrontiersman: Yeah, yeah. Great to have you. Thanks for all you're doing. @ncfrontiersman: Can't wait to see it when you get it released, man. So wonderful. @ncfrontiersman: All right. Let's see. @ncfrontiersman: I think Mastermind. Is that right? @NixFred: Yeah. @ncfrontiersman: That's the reminder? @NixFred: What's up, man? @MasterMynd2004: Hey, what's going on, everyone? How's everyone's Sunday? @NixFred: It's doing great, man. @MasterMynd2004: Yeah. This is fun to bring up. I have what I I stumbled onto a fun project, a side project. @MasterMynd2004: I do have other projects, but those are with partners and stuff. But this is a fun side project. @MasterMynd2004: And a bit of background. I was helping out a friend. @MasterMynd2004: I have a friend who's a chef. And he has a restaurant, but a large part of his business is catering. @MasterMynd2004: So he was having kind of problems with staffing about a year and a half ago. And I said, you know what? @MasterMynd2004: On catering, just forward just use my number and forward all the calls to me. I'll help you out for a few weeks. @MasterMynd2004: Because I'm thinking, what's the big deal? It's just catering, right? @MasterMynd2004: People call and you just take their stuff, what they want or their order, and then you just kind of move from there. And I learned very quickly it was a bit more than that. @MasterMynd2004: As a matter of fact, it kind of sucked. I mean, quoting and invoicing and all that stuff. @MasterMynd2004: So what I did was I embarked on a fun side project to replace myself. @NixFred: Wow. @MasterMynd2004: So I built a platform that does all of the admin for catering, except for one step. And that one step is just approving the quote. Intake, responding to customer questions, providing the digital menu, creating a quote, sending invoice, booking through calendar, all of it done. @MasterMynd2004: This is all automated. So I did this for my friend. @MasterMynd2004: Here's the issue. Not only has he been telling because and also, I have another feature in there called Zara, which he can change all of his configurations, like his taxes. @MasterMynd2004: If he wanted to change menu items and prices, all that, he can do that through he does that through WhatsApp. @NixFred: Wow. @MasterMynd2004: Like he just Zara asked him when he first onboarded, Zara will say, "Hey, I'm Zara. These are the things that you can change. If you want to change these things or amend anything, just let me know. @MasterMynd2004: Just message me like you would anyone else." And so if he wants to change his deposit amount from 50% for the first invoice and then 50% for a second invoice, if he wants to change that to 40/60, all he has to do is just message Zara. @MasterMynd2004: Zara will go make the change and it will update the system and the invoices will go out as scheduled with the right amount. So right now, I think he can do six or seven configuration changes. @MasterMynd2004: And he can do that through either or maybe you can do it through Telegram, WhatsApp, email, or SMS. @ncfrontiersman: Yeah. I mean, I think. @MasterMynd2004: So here's the. @ncfrontiersman: Okay, go ahead. Yeah, I was just going to say, I think the future of user interfaces, some of it might be just natural language communication, which is why we're in that world. @MasterMynd2004: Yeah. It's why we're in that world. And the reason I did this is because people that are in the food business are very busy. @MasterMynd2004: So I didn't want to make another platform, another app, or anything like that. I just wanted them to use the tools that they use every day naturally. @ncfrontiersman: Yeah. @MasterMynd2004: So that's why I did that. Here's the problem. I did this for him. @MasterMynd2004: It worked great. It was a very fun project. @MasterMynd2004: Everything is cool. He started mentioning it, and I just kind of mention it to people every now and then. @MasterMynd2004: Now I have a few more restaurants that would like to come on like a 30-day trial or something or would like to try it. But I need to productize it. @MasterMynd2004: This is where I'm running into I don't have the time I have a website, which I will never show anyone because it's horrible. But I have everything up and running. @MasterMynd2004: I have that running. I have another feature where it's kind of like a dashboard, but it's a bit more simple, but it's mobile-first. @MasterMynd2004: So you can only get it on your mobile phone. It will come to you. @MasterMynd2004: So the thing is, I'm stuck because the way I built it for him, it won't really scale past probably about I wouldn't do 40, 30 customers on it, anything more than that. It's not going to scale. @NixFred: So you're already on the right track. The main thing I believe that you're doing correctly is showing value first. You got that down. @NixFred: The next thing you're doing right is not adding another avenue or communication method that they have to yet again, no check. You're meeting your customers where they are. @NixFred: And let me tell you, Masterminder, the best problem you can possibly have is trying to figure out how to scale 45 customers. @ncfrontiersman: Yeah. @MasterMynd2004: The question is, what do I because at that point, then I got to put some real money into it to say, stand it up in AWS or something. But I think the question I have to the room is how to move forward. I have to now productize this thing. @MasterMynd2004: That's me. I got to think about marketing. @MasterMynd2004: I got to think about all this stuff. And it's like, ah. @ncfrontiersman: Well, I mean, you can only think about one thing at a time. And to me, it sounds like I mean, marketing's already handled at this point, it seems like, because you've already got customers lining up and word of mouth. @MasterMynd2004: Yeah. I mean, not that many. I don't have that many, but I have a lot of interest. @MasterMynd2004: And I'm enjoying the conversations. But I'm just wondering what to do from here now. @MasterMynd2004: Do I just serve these few and then just kind of leave it there? Should I. @NixFred: That's exactly right. Don't spend a penny on marketing. Keep servicing your customers. @NixFred: And marketing is paying for the next customer. You've already got your next customer. @NixFred: Focus on that. @ncfrontiersman: Yeah. Yeah. And yeah, I would say, so word of mouth, they start using it, they start loving it, they're going to tell their friends, and then the friends are going to tell their friends. @ncfrontiersman: And you don't want to have more customers than you can handle either because that's a nightmare too. So let it happen organically. @ncfrontiersman: And also, I'd be happy to have a chat with you about productizing it and thinking about there's ways with AI. You can say, "Hey, I built this thing over here. @ncfrontiersman: Deconstruct the behavior from it and the specifications. And then let's make these adjustments and build a new productized version of it." @ncfrontiersman: So almost treat it like a prototype and say, "Now knowing that it's solving a real problem, let's build the real thing that can handle multiple," like what they call multi-tenant situation, right? And then go from there. @ncfrontiersman: And actually, they've gotten really good at that. If you point agents at something that's already built, you're just doing refactoring. @ncfrontiersman: That goes pretty well. So happy to chat with you. @ncfrontiersman: If you want to send me and Fred a message, we can. @NixFred: Yeah. And Wes can help you with the marketing. He's an expert at that. @NixFred: And my career in technology has been scaling to millions of users. So I'll be happy to help you get there. @ncfrontiersman: Yeah. @MasterMynd2004: I don't know about listen. Listen, if I can get based on the pricing that I've already kind of have in my head, listen, if I can get to 100 users, I might just sell it and keep it moving. I mean, think about it. @MasterMynd2004: I mean. @NixFred: I'll come work for you, man. Send me up. @MasterMynd2004: You know, it's one of these things that you try to make a determination based on the time you have and the amount of investment you really want to put into it because I have other things that I'm also doing. But it was a fun project because I was doing it for a friend, right? And I just find it interesting that other people are interested in it. @MasterMynd2004: But at the same time, I have to be realistic and say, "Okay, do I go for it? Do I just service a few customers and then that's it? @MasterMynd2004: What do you do from there?" @ncfrontiersman: I mean. @MasterMynd2004: Now you're going to need some help. Right now, I have right now, I have everything is automated. I've automated so if anything goes wrong with the system, I get over to Telegram. @MasterMynd2004: I get the message. Here's what's wrong. @MasterMynd2004: Here's a suggested fix, blah, blah. So I have that going. @MasterMynd2004: But I don't know. I'll contact you guys. @MasterMynd2004: Really great space. @MasterMynd2004: Hopefully, we'll have a conversation about it. But it's really inspiring to hear other people building things and doing stuff. @ncfrontiersman: You're building for the restaurant industry. I was just talking about this in a tweet earlier about how I think the future of software is not building software for other developers. There was a whole phase of that where all of these were built. @ncfrontiersman: And I'm like, "No, it's for the small businesses. It's for the freelancers and the one-man show that are going on." @ncfrontiersman: To me, that's where I see a lot of interesting things happening, so. @MasterMynd2004: Yeah. And the whole messaging thing is interesting too because now we have to think with me being older, I'm thinking like, "Okay, maybe people are going to go towards voice." Interestingly enough, they don't want to go towards voice yet. @MasterMynd2004: They don't want to do voice. They want to do messaging. @MasterMynd2004: That's what they're used to. @ncfrontiersman: Oh, I see. @MasterMynd2004: That's what they're comfortable with. That's it, right? And so that's where I stopped. @MasterMynd2004: I'm like, "I'm not going to do voice for configuration changes yet or anything." People want and young people just want to message. @MasterMynd2004: They don't want to talk. @ncfrontiersman: Yeah. I don't get it either, bro. I'm all about just getting on the phone, but it's all. @MasterMynd2004: Yeah. That's how it is. And then people just want to do they want to message and then have things happen, right? @MasterMynd2004: They want to message. So even if and I think people who do websites, designers for websites, when people want to change their hours of operation, a lot of times they have to call their designer to have them change it. @MasterMynd2004: Why not just have them just do the integrations and just have people so they can message and change their hours of operation, address, phone number, blah, blah, blah, without having to fool with a designer, a website designer to make minor changes. @NixFred: Yeah. And you mentioned something important about your time. AI has made it where your most critical resource is your time because like my grandfather used to say, "We can do anything we want. @NixFred: We just can't do it all." @ncfrontiersman: Yeah. So true. So true. @ncfrontiersman: Well, thanks for speaking up and looking forward to talking to you a little bit later. Hope you have a great week. @ncfrontiersman: Fred, you got the next one? @NixFred: Yeah. My man, Heath, what's up, brother? @NixFred: Heath? @MuchmoreIT: Sorry. Sorry. I had myself double-muted. @NixFred: Yeah, brother. Hey, man. It's good to hear your voice. @NixFred: I want to just note here, disclaimer. I know Heath in real life, so just let everybody know that. @NixFred: Heath, I know what you're working on this week. It was pretty freaking huge. @NixFred: Are you able to talk about that in general terms? @MuchmoreIT: Which one? @NixFred: Well, I'm going to let you pick because I don't want to even hint at it. You're doing government, like high-level million GPU stuff. @MuchmoreIT: Yeah. So there's an interesting series of things. And I just want to say, I think I saw called the Construct out there. @MuchmoreIT: So me and him have been chatting on the back end a little bit to talk about the security aspect that I kind of revealed a while ago. And so in my world, in the federal world, we do these things or we have to use these things called STIGs, Security Template Implementation Guides. @MuchmoreIT: And basically, it's just how dumb can I make Windows or Unix or Linux or whatever it is? And it breaks everything pretty severely because you're tapping the brakes pretty heavily in a security realm. @MuchmoreIT: And so then ports stop working and all kinds of things. So some of that's been kind of going on. @MuchmoreIT: I've been having Claude help me out in that realm. And then so on the bigger pieces, there's some interesting things happening because Wes and I kind of share an interest in weather. @MuchmoreIT: And so I work with NOAA pretty regularly in my current job on the supercomputers that they use to produce the hurricane models. And so living in Florida most of my life, but I created my own model mechanism. @MuchmoreIT: And so if you've seen me posting this week, I was showing my tracker. And part of what I do from a scientific perspective is find out how accurate each of the models are because we all love watching spaghetti models on the weather channel, but what does it really mean? @MuchmoreIT: And so that's where some of my research is going. And then in regards to the, I'll call it the panic in the public around the federal government having a lot of AI, we have a lot more than you could possibly dream about. @MuchmoreIT: So worrying about what they're going to have, I would say it's too late just due to the size. And then so my super big project right now is I know everybody's probably a big NVIDIA fan, but I'm a former AMDer. @MuchmoreIT: So AMD has a new system coming out called Helios. And it's going to be super competitive on par, basically, with anything that NVIDIA can throw at it. @MuchmoreIT: But just to kind of give you an example of the problems that I have to solve is working in the power realms. So it's roughly 235 kilowatts per rack. @MuchmoreIT: Now, you might say, "What does that have to do with Omarchy Linux?" So that goes back to that STIGging thing, right, is that we need to speed up development inside of all of our federal environments and running a standard Ubuntu-style Linux that's bloated with all the stuff. @MuchmoreIT: That slows a lot of my people down. And so this customer in particular, they're talking about buying 12 of these racks, 235 kilowatts a rack. @MuchmoreIT: And that's going to be their new AI system that they're bringing online. So part of this is just trying to weave a bunch of things together. @MuchmoreIT: And then all that, if anybody's interested in understanding, I think I can't remember which one of you guys made the game, Wes. Was that you that made the old school? @NixFred: I think that's Chris. @MuchmoreIT: Or Chris. Yeah, yeah. So I'm a former F-117A guy. @MuchmoreIT: So if anybody remembers the old flight sim game, so that's the other one of my projects. I'm making an Omarchi desktop of MicroPose's version. @NixFred: But hold on. Wait, wait, wait, wait. Tell them why you know about the 117. @MuchmoreIT: Oh, well, because I was avionics on the 117. @ncfrontiersman: We got to talk, Heath. You're in weather, you're in avionics. This is all my favorite things. @MuchmoreIT: Yeah. No, I mean, you have been on my list to get some time with. I'm glad October's here because it's finally, I'll call it an airport slow time for me. @MuchmoreIT: But it's one of those things. Yeah. @MuchmoreIT: So MicroPose got a lot wrong in the game back in the day. So what I'm kind of basically doing is I'm going to create an Omarchi desktop connector game kind of thing. @MuchmoreIT: And so it's in the works. I've got the rudimentary framework kind of ready. @MuchmoreIT: Now I'm getting a lot of the underlying code written. So I'm trying to make it a little more realistic. @MuchmoreIT: And so so far, so good. I don't have anything quite ready to reveal yet because the demo crashes quite a bit. @MuchmoreIT: But so that's kind of where I'm at in my world, so. @NixFred: That's amazing, Wes. Heath, appreciate that. And you're always welcome to drop by here. @NixFred: Folks, if you don't follow Heath, do yourself a favor. The guy's working on ridiculous huge scale. @NixFred: I say I know how to scale stuff. Heath scales me. @MuchmoreIT: I don't know about that, brother. Man, I appreciate the kind words, man. We're all we all make stuff fit together, and I can't do stuff without you guys. @MuchmoreIT: And it's all a big fun global team, so. @NixFred: Wonderful. Awesome. I'll chat with you Monday. @NixFred: I want to hear more about what you can talk about later. @MuchmoreIT: Yeah. So I finally got clearance from my company's legal about all my patents. So I can finally unshelve those and let you have a peek behind the scenes on that. @MuchmoreIT: So if anybody has quantum encryption interests, you'd be interested in this. So I might be able to start opening up on that one, so. @NixFred: Wow. Amazing stuff. I don't know how you do it, brother. @NixFred: Well, hey, thanks for coming by, man. And we'll talk to you this week. @NixFred: And please join us every Sunday and regale us so we can dream about the big stuff. @ncfrontiersman: Yep. Wonderful. Okay. @ncfrontiersman: So it looks like we got James. And I was curious if Catherine had an update on the newsletter. @ncfrontiersman: I don't know. But if you want to request to speak. @ncfrontiersman: If not, that's okay too. Yeah. @ncfrontiersman: But James, what's going on? @NixFred: Hey, James, you might want to unmute just so everybody knows James is in Singapore up at what is now, what, 4:30 in the morning. So thanks for coming by, James. Can't hear you, brother. @NixFred: Can't hear you. Keep trying, man. @NixFred: We want to hear what you got to say. @JamesTervit: Is that no? @NixFred: There you are. @JamesTervit: Man, I don't know what goes on with spaces. It changes my microphone. Every time I come in, it changes onto something else. @NixFred: Hey, lean into that thing just a little bit, buddy. @JamesTervit: How's that? Is that better? @NixFred: A little bit better. @JamesTervit: Man, I'm right up close to my microphone. I don't know what's going on. Let me just see if I can check it. @ncfrontiersman: Yeah. You're good to me, James. @NixFred: Yeah. Keep running. Keep running. @JamesTervit: Yeah. It's okay? @ncfrontiersman: Yeah. @JamesTervit: Okay. Cool. Yeah. @JamesTervit: Thanks, Wes. Thanks for pulling me up. @JamesTervit: And also thanks for Fred for highlighting that you guys were on a Sunday, which is my Monday morning time because Singapore is about 12 hours ahead of you guys. So it's quite hard to try and catch the stateside stuff running at this time, but glad to join in. @JamesTervit: I mean, there's so much stuff that you guys have spoke about in this stuff that is so relative to stuff that I've been doing in the past. And what brought me into Omarchi was Andrew Boyd's T1 bridge, right? @JamesTervit: Because I had a MacBook 2017, which was just basically collecting dust. And for the first time, I was able to actually get a Linux build, which went straight on there, and everything just worked. @JamesTervit: And I was like, "Oh, that's a bit different." That's what got me hooked on Omarchi. @JamesTervit: And then I started dabbling with putting my I've got a little animated character which goes on the desktop, and he interfaces via voice for agent type stuff. So I put that on the same day and I was like, "Well, this is different." @JamesTervit: I've been able to actually get all of this done in a single day. So that was a first. @JamesTervit: And so that's what got me hooked up with you guys. And Fred and I had a really good discussion yesterday. @JamesTervit: I think an hour and a half just went past in five minutes, it seems, because we had so much to talk about, so much in common, and so on. So Omarchi, for me, is a total game changer in terms of just getting things up and running fast. @JamesTervit: I don't know of any other distribution that's been able to do that. I've dabbled with a lot of them, like Linux, Mint, and the Arch flavors that's out there. @JamesTervit: I've dabbled in some of the security stuff. I know someone was talking about dev security. @JamesTervit: I've been working with NVIDIA Morpheus way back in as early as 2019 when I was messing with Matplotlib and DeepSeek and MassScan and various other parsing tools that allows you to visualize traffic and so on. So that got me into AI and whatnot. @JamesTervit: So the dev security side was really interesting. And then someone had to go and mention radio. @JamesTervit: So I've been into packet radio way back since the bulletin board days because we were trying to distribute as cheaply as possible a lot of data, right? So radio is definitely something that's right on my list because I've been messing with embedded systems and dealing with LoRaWAN and all this kind of modern type low-bandwidth type stuff, which is really, really interesting. @JamesTervit: And then someone mentioned about the eye tracking thing, which is beyond useful because I did head tracking back in 2015 because I couldn't actually run a game because there was too many controls and so on. So head tracking was something that I did from just a webcam. @JamesTervit: So the eye tracking thing is super useful. And I think it's a total game changer, especially when you're dealing with people with disabilities. @JamesTervit: And I think it really highlights the discussion that we had with Lee, Fred, about his angle in terms of bringing all the stuff that he's doing into Omarchi. And man, what a community. @JamesTervit: Unbelievable stuff. I mean, there's just so much to talk about. @JamesTervit: I don't even know where to end because I could basically hijack this whole thing for the next two weeks. But anyway, thanks, guys, for letting me on. @ncfrontiersman: Yeah. Yeah. We're not going anywhere. @ncfrontiersman: So you can come back next week and the week after and the week after. This feels like testimony hour almost. @ncfrontiersman: So this is good stuff. It's good to hear from you. @ncfrontiersman: Hopefully, you can get some rest soon. @JamesTervit: Yeah. Well, it's par for the course when you're in this industry, right? It's like sleep is like a second thing that you don't do anymore. @ncfrontiersman: Yeah. Yeah. You sleep when you're dead, right? @JamesTervit: 100%. Yeah. @NixFred: Hey, James, thanks for coming by. And let's set up the next one-on-one Zoom. I feel like I only heard about a quarter of your story. @JamesTervit: Yeah. 100%, Fred. I don't know what's going on, but I think Wes could hear me. @JamesTervit: And everyone else can hear me okay. But yeah, this is spaces for you. @JamesTervit: This is buggy as hell. It always never ever goes smoothly. @MuchmoreIT: Yeah. This is Heath. I want to say hi to James real quick. @MuchmoreIT: James, I have another project that you and I should probably talk about. It's an Omarchi desktop for software-defined radio receivers. @MuchmoreIT: So yeah, you and I should probably chat about that. @JamesTervit: Yeah. Definitely. 100%. @JamesTervit: Actually, just something I didn't speak about, Wes, for me. I'm running an app called Omarchi at work, which when I first set up my laptop, I kind of thought, "I don't have enough monitor connections to connect another monitor." @JamesTervit: So I decided that I was going to build a virtual monitor into another browser on another connected LAN PC. And I got that running really great. @JamesTervit: So I'm going to launch that fairly soon. I think that will be kind of awesome. @ncfrontiersman: Cool. Omarchi Warp, you said? @JamesTervit: Yeah. And it just allows you to apply another screen to a browser on your LAN. And it works flawlessly because if you take your mouse, like you have a dual screen, and your mouse goes from the main monitor to your second attached monitor, it just fluidly goes across, which is great. @JamesTervit: So I've been using that. So it's kind of awesome. @ncfrontiersman: Very cool. Well, it's good to hear from you. We do have one speaker, special guest, coming up here shortly. @ncfrontiersman: But I just wanted to mention that Tim set up a group chat for us all on X. We'll try to get everybody added there. @ncfrontiersman: Just wanted to mention that's coming soon. I don't know if there's a way to share a link. @ncfrontiersman: We haven't been able to get the chat here, but we'll all get in that group chat, and then we can start there. And maybe Slack will come later if that doesn't work out. @ncfrontiersman: But yeah, just wanted to share that. @NixFred: I just retweeted the invitation. So jump in there. Thanks to Tim Sooner for doing that. @NixFred: And we'll get everybody added. And again, Wes, I'll hand it back to you. @NixFred: But please follow everybody here. I'm following people as quick as I can. @NixFred: We all have the same desires. @NixFred: We're all centered on Omarchi and helping other people. So you're not going to find a better list of people that care about Omarchi than right here. @NixFred: So follow everybody. And I'm getting to everybody as soon as I can. @NixFred: I'm getting rate limited. @ncfrontiersman: Yeah. Cool. Well, hey, we've got the builder of a little unknown tool called Flee. @ncfrontiersman: I don't know if you've heard of it. I'm just kidding. @ncfrontiersman: This thing is taking off. So GM, what's going on? @ncfrontiersman: You got some cool news. I saw you landed on GitHub's homepage, basically, right? @thisisgm: Yeah. Hi, everyone. @ncfrontiersman: Hey, what's up, GM? @thisisgm: What up? It's been an interesting week, for sure. @thisisgm: So let me take you back to, I don't know, Wednesday. Wednesday, I basically ran out of tokens. @thisisgm: And I was like, "Okay. Yeah, sure." @thisisgm: Like a week of five-day downtime won't affect much. Then I got sponsored another clothes up by the people at Super Whisper. @thisisgm: Those guys are awesome. And then I started fine-tuning performance even more to the point where I was measuring the input latency from key to key in off file managers. @thisisgm: It turns out Dolphin was the best at it at around 11 milliseconds per key. I tried to match it. @thisisgm: I got close. And I basically managed to fit in a bunch of features. @thisisgm: Then Friday hits and Neil from Super Whisper messages me like, "Hey, in Omarchi's dev branch, you team got updated to 6.12, and that breaks Flee. Just a heads up." @thisisgm: And I was like, "Sure. It's going to take a few weeks to get to stable." @thisisgm: Nope. Everybody on stable got the update. @thisisgm: So Flee was broken. And then I post yesterday night like, "Hey, can you guys confirm if you guys are getting QT 6.12 on stable?" @thisisgm: And who of all people replies? Of course, DHH himself. @thisisgm: Yeah. @ncfrontiersman: Wow. @thisisgm: So I basically, in the middle of my panic, I had to basically push all the work from Wednesday until yesterday to a few days from now for 0.3.10. And yeah, it's been an interesting weekend. That's the summary of it. @ncfrontiersman: Been a wild ride. Yeah. Wow. @ncfrontiersman: Yeah. I don't know. @ncfrontiersman: I love this about X in general, the idea that anybody can get in front of anybody and talk to anybody. We're all on the same level playing field, I think. @ncfrontiersman: And other social media is not quite like that, other avenues. So the fact that we can just talk to DHH or just talk to the GitHub people or just talk to the Super Whisper people and get these people all listening, I think it's cool. @ncfrontiersman: It's a cool world. @thisisgm: Yeah. And I'm seeing he's here. And I want to give a huge shout-out to I do not want to butcher your name because I'm so thankful. @thisisgm: So I'm sorry in advance. But Tunda, he's the CEO of Cero Ramp. @thisisgm: They sponsored another 200 AI software for Flee. @ncfrontiersman: Wow. @thisisgm: And I just wanted to say thank you in front of everyone. @ncfrontiersman: Thank you, Tunda. That's great. @thisisgm: And I wanted to mention for you guys who don't know, I got a bunch of issues and PRs for Flee, and they are all welcome at all times. So if you have something you want fixed, please address it there because I usually credit most people, even if you just pointed out the issue. So the more the merrier, please contribute. @thisisgm: It's all like at the end of the day, it does not matter what file manager you actually end up using. At the end of the day, we're all using Linux OS. @thisisgm: It's whatever you want it to be. @ncfrontiersman: Right. Wonderful. Well, is there anything that we can help with as a community that you need help? @ncfrontiersman: Are you feeling overwhelmed with PRs or issues? Do you need some of us to jump on and help you triage them? @ncfrontiersman: We're happy to help, man. @thisisgm: I would love people testing stuff, like trying to break the app. That's the thing that AI is like. It can do it, but my tokens are directed at the new features and fixing the GitHub issues and all that. @thisisgm: So if you can just battery test the app, just click around, try to break it so I can spot the things that AI can't, then. @NixFred: Oh, that's my specialty, is breaking stuff. @ncfrontiersman: Oh, couldn't hear you, Fred. @NixFred: That's my specialty, is breaking stuff. @thisisgm: Yeah. And I also wanted to shout out Chris, who's the creator of the Atmos manager. It's a great app. @thisisgm: It does a bunch of things. If you can break that app as well, please do. @ncfrontiersman: Awesome. Well, hey, thanks for sharing. And I'm really happy to see the success that you're having. @ncfrontiersman: And I love Flee. It's so dialed in, man. @ncfrontiersman: It is so good. So I just appreciate all the work there. @ncfrontiersman: And yeah, let's all try to help. Let's try to let's test the heck out of it and see if we can find some edge cases and then write up issues or even PRs to fix it if we find it, so. @thisisgm: Yeah. I am beyond thankful for everyone who uses the app, for everyone who contributes, for everyone who has even donated to the project. You guys have to understand, it was just me with an idea of a Flea market being a file manager one month ago basically in my apartment. @thisisgm: And it's now a whole thing worldwide. And to me, that's insane. @NixFred: So GM, are you telling us that every single person in this space that has an idea can do it? @thisisgm: Of course. If I did with a 9-to-5 and with limited budget and tokens and time and all the excuses that people use to not make stuff, just prompt the AI, make something, put it out there. @NixFred: Awesome, brother. Awesome, brother. @ncfrontiersman: What a story. What a story. I mean, I feel like you're going to be one of those people they make a documentary about one day, like the Facebook ones, social, in a good way. @thisisgm: Let's not get carried away. It's a file manager. But thank you. @ncfrontiersman: This is just the start for you. I got a feeling. This is awesome. @thisisgm: I hope, brother. I hope. @ncfrontiersman: Wonderful. Well, anybody else got anything you want to speak? I think we're coming up at about an hour and 25 here. @ncfrontiersman: We got time for a little bit more. This has been such a great one this week. @ncfrontiersman: I feel like every week is better, which is pretty cool, so. @NixFred: We got Hancore. Hancore, you want to jump in, man? We'd love to hear from you. @ncfrontiersman: Yeah. And no pressure if you don't want to. If you just want to kind of work, that's all good too. @NixFred: Or Chris Hollis is out there. @ncfrontiersman: Those are great folks. @NixFred: Tundy? @ncfrontiersman: Yeah. Yeah. Chris, you want to talk about Atmos a little bit? @ncfrontiersman: Let's see if we get a request. @NixFred: I'm not seeing them. I'm not seeing them. @ncfrontiersman: Okay. @NixFred: Tech Luddites out there? @ncfrontiersman: Got time for one more person that wants to hop in. @NixFred: Oh, here we go. All right. It's going to be it's going to be Atmos. @ncfrontiersman: All right. @NixFred: How am I sounding, Wes? @ncfrontiersman: You're good. @NixFred: Okay. Cool. @ncfrontiersman: All right. Chris? I hear a dog barking, though. @NixFred: Let me mute out. Sorry. @ncfrontiersman: That's okay. @ncfrontiersman: All right, Chris, you're up. @hicsfh: Okay. Hey. What do you guys want to know? @ncfrontiersman: What's the. @hicsfh: Well, for people that aren't aware, what is Atmos, basically? All right. Yeah. @hicsfh: That's a pretty good question. @hicsfh: I've been thinking a lot about it because when I post about it, I write Atmos is like a config, configuration center, control panel, preference pane, monitoring thing. I don't really know what it is, to be honest. @hicsfh: It does a lot of different things. And I don't know if it has a distinct one category yet. @hicsfh: I just know that when you go to Windows, I always felt like in the control center there or panel, I think it's called. @ncfrontiersman: Control panel, yeah. @hicsfh: Yeah. It was never really it was never really as good as it could be. And the same thing when you're on a Mac. @hicsfh: I'm sure most of you who've been on Mac OS for a long time have noticed how when you search for things, it doesn't bring up the thing that you need, even though it's super obvious, even in Spotlight. So Atmos is just kind of very similar to Flee, except I don't think it's quite as big. @hicsfh: And we kind of saw a problem that I could kind of potentially own in a way, not possessively, but that maybe this was something that could be my little slice of the Omachi pie that I could work on and I could contribute on. But you can use Atmos. @hicsfh: You can install it. I just submitted it to the OPR, so I hope it gets approved there soon. @hicsfh: And you can use it to essentially configure most of the things that I've found on Omachi. So you can change the themes. @hicsfh: Of course, you can change all the hyperland stuff. You can set your default applications. @hicsfh: You can go and look at what kind of machine you have. If you kind of get a kick out of figuring out what all your hardware is called and the SKUs and the serial numbers, you can go in and find most of that stuff. @hicsfh: You can get Omachi updates. I tried to add a ton of different things because it's kind of like a journey for me where I'm learning. @hicsfh: And I guess I'm kind of journaling my journey of learning Linux and Omachi at this level into the application itself. @ncfrontiersman: Wonderful. So it's almost like discoverability. You're building an app that kind of makes it easier to discover all of the settings, the hardware, the config, all the things that are kind of hidden behind the scenes in config files. @ncfrontiersman: You're kind of bringing that to the front so that it's kind of in one spot. Is that kind of what it is? @hicsfh: Yeah, pretty much. So I think with Quatro, of course, everybody knows here that Omachi exploded. @hicsfh: But I think one thing that we need to keep in mind is that it did explode, but it's only on I shouldn't say only, but it is still in a relatively small little microcosm on X relative to the rest of the world. I'm sure most of you have colleagues who are not where you're like, "You should try Omachi," and they're not really getting into it yet. @hicsfh: And I just wanted to I'm not really into editing all these files by hand, to be honest. I like having a graphical user interface. @hicsfh: I like visualizing things. I'm not a keyboard whiz. @hicsfh: I've used computers 35 years at least, or 30. And I've always liked using them on mouse. @hicsfh: But there's some sort of I think a lot of people have a it's like a badge of honor. If you can use new Vim, I can't. @hicsfh: And I'm okay with that. @ncfrontiersman: Hey, that's fine. Yeah. I mean, I think that's what makes Omachi great is you make it what you want it to be, right? @ncfrontiersman: And for a lot of people, the mouse and graphical is the way to go. I mean, I kind of waffle between the two. @ncfrontiersman: I love the keyboard now, for sure. But I still like point and click because it's kind of like it's that ADHD thing, I think. @ncfrontiersman: But in any case, that's really cool what you're building. And I'm glad you're doing it. @ncfrontiersman: And I'm sure that there's plenty of people out there that are benefiting from it already, so. @NixFred: Oh, I'm benefiting from it. I use Atmos. I'm not even kidding about every hour. @NixFred: So much so that I made it a super hot key and made it drop down like a Quake terminal. @ncfrontiersman: Wow. Oh, there you go. @NixFred: Just right there and ready to go. Just right there and ready to go. @ncfrontiersman: Well, I need to check it out. All right. Well, thanks, Chris. @ncfrontiersman: It's good to hear from you. Fred, you've got. @hicsfh: If I may, before I go, I just wanted to ask anyone kind of similar to what GM was talking about. @hicsfh: One of the great things with AI is we got a lot of bandwidth to get a lot of stuff done. But honestly, I think a lot of us building these apps, I think we feel like we have a lot of blind spots, maybe. @hicsfh: And I'm trying to figure out ways because I'm a software engineer by trade as well. So I have a lot of that stuff on my mind. @hicsfh: I'm trying to figure out ways to use AI, not just to build things, but also to kind of close those gaps and stuff. And I definitely think that's one of the places where we don't know as an industry how to do that best yet. @hicsfh: So right now, I think the best way to do it is just having people use it, but then also getting that direct communication to people who are using it. So if you find something not working, instead of just shutting it down and not trying it again, if anyone could reach out or just I would immensely appreciate anyone finding anything wrong with it and letting me know so I can fix it. @ncfrontiersman: Yeah. Totally. Yeah. @ncfrontiersman: Yeah. Let Chris know. @ncfrontiersman: I mean, they can message you or, I guess, file an issue on the GitHub. @hicsfh: Yeah. I would greatly appreciate it. @ncfrontiersman: Very good. All right. Well, with Chris, Chris is closing us out. @ncfrontiersman: So thanks, Chris. And Fred, you got any parting words of wisdom before we wrap? @NixFred: No, man. Yeah. I appreciate you as always, Wes. @NixFred: You lead the way in the community, and it's wonderful to follow your leadership. And everybody out there, follow each other while we're still connected. @NixFred: I'm beating that dead horse, but I really mean it. I'm trying to follow everybody that's here. @NixFred: Get out there. Be kind to each other. @NixFred: Help an old lady across the street. And when you get her there, put a marching on her laptop. @ncfrontiersman: There you go. We need a T-shirt for that, Fred. @NixFred: That's right. You bet. @ncfrontiersman: All right, y'all. I hope y'all have a good one. Thank you. @NixFred: See everybody next week. See everybody next week. @ncfrontiersman: All right. Bye-bye. # EP 06: Sunday Builders Club: The One Where We Chased One Rabbit Part of "Omarchy! Omarchy! Omarchy!", the weekly Omarchy X Space. Every Sunday, 3pm EST, live on X. - Recorded: Sunday, October 18, 2026, 3pm EST - Length: 88 minutes - Film (Sunday Builders Club, 3 min): https://omarchyspaces.com/films/ep06.mp4 - Speakers: 13+ - Tuned in: 127 - Hosts: @ncfrontiersman, @NixFred - Listen: https://x.com/i/spaces/1vKpPNmLLekKE - Post on X: https://x.com/NixFred - Web: https://omarchyspaces.com/ep/06/ ## Summary (as posted on X by @NixFred) Sunday Builders Club, Episode 6: "The one where we chased one rabbit." Recorded Sunday, October 18, 2026. An hour and 28 minutes, 127 tuned in, 10 people came up to speak, and every one of them was building something. Listen: https://x.com/i/spaces/1vKpPNmLLekKE Full write-up and the complete transcript: https://omarchyspaces.com/ep/06/ @ncfrontiersman Wes Grimes, host, creator of OmaStorm, and me @nixfred, co-host. Wes and I are the hosts but YOU are the star!!! In the order they spoke: Portia, Katherine, Compiling Things, Christopher Weis, Christopher Smeekraft, Boyd, Michael, Per, DevSec and Miguel. @calledtocnstrct ran the speaker queue all afternoon and kept everybody in the order they raised their hand. Thank you, brother! THE POWER OF FOCUS Wes opened with a game: name the quote. Bruce Lee on the average man or woman with laser-like focus. Rocky. Mr. Miyagi, wax on, wax off. Emerson: "Concentration is the secret of strength." The anonymous "If you chase two rabbits, both will escape." Steve Jobs on simple being harder than complex. Alexander Graham Bell: the sun's rays do not burn bright until brought to a focus. Then he put the Space to work. Today was about the power of focusing well on one thing, and in today's world that does not come naturally. It is so easy to kick off another prompt and another agent, and the front of that feels great. The back of it is open threads creeping up in your mind, whack-a-mole, and a hit to your ability to do things well. Wes wants to build a few things really well instead of a lot of things that are sort of okay. I pushed the other side. The industry tells us to be a 10X engineer, open all your tabs and go from agent to agent to agent. Wes asked the question under it: what is the reason we are doing this? Some of us are chasing income or a job, so try everything and hope one sticks makes sense. But the human mind cracks under that and the quality of everything you output goes way down. Ask yourself what the most important thing is right now and give it your all. Side experiments are fine. How do you tell a useful experiment from a distraction? I told the room I am guilty of taking everything and doing it all at once, and I want to shrink twelve experiments to two or three. I also stopped writing my ideas down. If it is good it will not leave me, and of the 50 things that come to my head at a time, the two that stay are what I work on. Wes called that trust versus fear. The other thing I do is put myself in the judgment seat. The things that did best for me on X came from fixing my own needs. When the voice in my head says you need to be famous, that voice is clearly not on my team. So: let go. And when I really stress, I remind myself that in 4 billion years the Earth burns up in the sun and none of it matters. Wes took it to a good place: use the gifts we are given to make the world a little better and try not to stress about it. LARRY MOVED INTO GROK BOT Wes asked what I am building. Larry, my Claude Code agent, has grown since January 8th at 2:00 AM, which is when he was born, and he knows it. I was locked into Claude Code and Codex and Kimi and the rest. Not sponsored, not endorsing anything, but this week I put Larry in the box and Larry on Claude Code is now a sub-agent to Grok Bot. I did not want to give up everything Larry learned about how I work. Here is the flip. In Claude Code you read it all and feel like you have to know. I talked to Parker Brown this week, who builds Terminal Delight, a harness worth a look, and Grok Bot did so well that I cannot see what it is doing and I am getting to the point where I do not care. One day we will look back at harnesses where we read every line the way we look at flip phones. The kids coming up will only see outcomes, not output. We are going to have to be okay with that. WES, HOW ARE YOU FOCUSING? I interrupted and turned it around, which Wes hates and we are going to do every week. OmaStorm. Wisher, which he built so he can connect from his Mac to his Omarchy machine without hacky Moonlight and Sunshine setups. Rust from zero, after 25 years of shipping software. The new @SundayBuildClub handle and a website coming along. So how is he focusing? Wes: on y'all first. The things he builds are tools for himself, Wisher is in maintenance-ish mode because it works enough for him, and what he would much rather see is all of you building cool things that help people, getting jobs, making relationships, learning new skills and feeling confident. I love people, and I want to see people grow. He did not know what this Space would turn into when he asked me if I wanted to do one. There is a hunger to connect where nobody is better than anybody else, there are no stupid questions, and he would love to end up in the background, helping, while more voices speak up. Skill level and language barely matter anymore. JavaScript, C#, Rails, they are all meshing together and we are all builders. @letsbuildanyway Portia has been going headfirst into Hermes and used Omarchy several times this week. Her question: what are we not asking ourselves when we choose a tool? Saying "give me a digest of the Omarchy news every Friday at 3:00 PM" is very different from a chatbot, and she does not think we have the language to explain what an agent bot is, how to choose one and why it is useful. She is not confused about what to use. She wants the words for why a tool is ergonomic, why Hermes over Claude, why Omarchy over a Mac. My answer was personal preference and the job at hand. I admitted I am on a Mac for this Space because Spaces on Omarchy is a little flaky, and that we have to avoid the pressure of Omarchy everything. Heresy, I know. She pushed back, and she was right to: do not stop at preference, I want to hear a problem and recommend a tool in articulate words. I said the tools change every two weeks, so think in systems and primitives, like a recurring job that goes off and comes back with an answer. She left with "just questions today and no answers." That is a real one. It is on the board below. DevSec jumped in with an answer. These are not agents so much as automated personal assistants that connect the tools that matter to you, so there is no single tool that is good for everybody. Different preferences, lifestyles, workflows. I added that the people building them are trying to fill everybody's requirements, which is very hard, and that we will see very hyper-focused utility AIs soon. @omarchyftrou Katherine's contribution to the focus theme: it is highly overrated. During the Space she updated her journal and started another 3D print, presents for her granddaughter's birthday. When she tries to focus on one thing she gets less done. With a bunch going she has a lot of unfinished projects, but she also finishes a bunch. It evens out. Wes: some of us are just wired up differently and thrive on multitasking. And speaking of multitasking, she committed to making Sunday Builders Club logo stickers this week. DM her your address and she will mail you one. She is making a whole slew of them and the stamps are on her. For a thank you, subscribe to her newsletter! @Compilethings 49 years old, a glassblower who has built homes, furniture, knives, art and scientific glass, and he bought his first computer about a year ago. Now he owns five. He is building synthetic data set pipelines with verification, then training models to show the uplift, and he went back to school for machine learning and AI three months ago. Five computers ran the pipeline for 30 days straight, pegged. He runs 7 Claude sessions at once with one session orchestrating the rest, from a T480 running Omarchy that reaches every machine on his home network. It never turns off. His first data set is algorithmic trading in MQL5, which he calls a trillion-dollar market that just opened its platform to agents. A 14 billion parameter model trained on it is within 0.3% of GPT-5.6 on his evaluation, and the evaluations are on Hugging Face under CompilingThings. He does not release the data sets or the method, only the proof. The framework he is building points at any domain and gives you an expert you can run on your own GPU. He would rather sell it and retire, but he will help people set one up. His point is verification: code that compiles does not mean it trades at the right time. The hunt is ground truth data, and he is pretty close. And on Portia's question: these tools are all the same. Build the right MD files around any of them and they all do the same job. He is in Norway, American, been there 23 years, and he just started a CyberDeck project on the side. @OnTheLiftAI Christopher is building a way to take a large LLM, dissect it, and use it as a database to feed a smaller model so agents can run locally. Get things off the internet, own your data and own your LLM. Tailor a model to you from a plug-in store: download a small model for the conversational part, then add the email skill pack, then the vibe coding pack, so your agent does exactly those things as well as local hardware allows. Wes saw a use at his day job, where they build in specific stacks and have models just for fixing flaky tests. Then a tip for Wes. For remote desktop he uses RustDesk, free, open source, self-hostable, and a one-time executable works on any computer you walk up to. Wes uses a small Rust server on Hyprland and the built-in macOS screen sharing app. And Christopher was digging out from the hurricane. "She was a wild one, but everything's good." @Smeekraft Christopher released his first project today on GitHub: Omarclusive, named as an homage to Omarchy. He has tried to get into Linux over the years with Ubuntu, Fedora and Mint, and on Mint one wireless problem ate a week. Computers are tools to him, like a table saw. Omarchy had already made the important decisions, it installed and it ran, and he can make it his own but does not need to. In Germany it is Windows and Linux, with no macOS culture at all. He worked his whole life as a nurse with people with profound multiple disabilities, and his contract ends at the end of the year. He tried to fix the gatekeeper system of social care and medicine from within and learned you cannot. Now he builds tools aimed at the problems he saw. I pointed out that Omarchy landed on Arch, the least opinionated Linux there is, and found the balance for him. @0xBOYD Boyd is running a startup and has been quiet on the Omarchy front, but he showed up with the thing from last week's call that he missed because it was his daughter's birthday. How do you teach your kids to create with computers when it will not be how he learned, tinkering until it broke and then fixing it? He thinks the how-it-works part is going to be elective. So he took a Steam Machine, which is a full Linux box the size of a GameCube, put coding agents on it logged into his Claude and Codex accounts, and built a voice thread his kids talk to. It connects through a coordinator he calls the foreman to a bunch of workers. The kids just talk to a game that is a factory for making games. Requests show up as cards in the sidebar, it asks clarifying questions if the clarity is not high enough, and the engine hot reloads Lua so the game never restarts. They made a four-player couch game called Little Backyard where you are bananas throwing exploding bananas and knocking each other off the map. He built the little magazine style site an hour before the Space by asking Claude. His line: the value of software is now zero. If you are in the business of selling software, you are going to have a really bad time. All the kids need is to know something can be done and ask for it. Wes called it a game factory. Boyd said he wanted hot module reloading for video games, which comes from his front-end days. @MichaelH_rley Michael's one thing is omadesign: the best graphic design experience on the best operating system. He is a 25-year graphic designer who felt liberated by Omarchy and Quattro but had no professional design tool to go with it, so he is building one so designers can switch and not be stuck on their Macs. For the last three weeks he has been only coding with agents, and T3 Code's new orchestrator and working section have been a game changer: he kicks off a thread, it disappears, he keeps working and gets an update when it is done. Grok Bot manages his inbox and now kicks off his T3 Code threads through its MCP service. To Portia: Hermes becomes its own malleable system as you prompt it. Watch for that. Wes tied it together: the quality is finally high enough that we can delegate, let sub-agents do their work and come back, and that is a lot better for our minds. @PerWendelboe Per is 50, a management consultant in ERP and NetSuite for decades, who learned BASIC on a Commodore 128 and let the reins loose with vibe coding this summer. For his sister's company he built a Google Maps clone, GeoJSON of all of Denmark with reverse address lookup, so she could stop paying Google's API fees. She paid for it, which was good. Omarchy feels to him like being back on the Commodore 128D. He ran an install help booth at the Copenhagen meetup and watched 2007-era machines sit on the Arch bootloader logo for 35 minutes before the installer started. The browser then eats all the memory. So he built a potato mode plugin aimed at a 1 GB RAM footprint, and he will release it early next week. With Grok Bot he also launched erp-localizations.com this week, and on the 15th he released an Omarchy UI helper Grok Bot template. Install it, open Grok Bot, and it uses the computer for you, even if you cannot navigate the menus. @devsec_ai DevSec was up twice, and his second turn was Uber TV, an Omarchy media center that is still in alpha. It has a full program guide, YouTube channels, YouTube live channels and IPTV, 160 YouTube channels to start, multi-view with a minimized window, and custom apps, with the first app dropping within 24 hours. A gaming section is next, so the games plug straight into a more unified console. It sits alongside Uber Notebook. I have been using it since he DM'd me a pre-look, I expected X and I got X plus 35, and it is free. Get it at ubertv.dev, try it and send bugs and ideas. @Mgldvd_tech Miguel David, Mgldvd, joined from Colombia after waiting a long time in the queue, and Wes and Called To Construct made sure he got to speak. His main project is a terminal customizer with around 10K stars on GitHub, and he still needs to check its Omarchy support. A couple of weeks ago he launched Gona Launcher, a launcher for Omarchy, because he always wanted a really nice one back on Linux Mint. He is not in any community and does not do much social media, but he thought about builders and it gave him the courage to talk. Wes: nothing is too small to ask and nothing is too big, as long as we stay focused on each other and put others first. Wes closed with the challenge. Pick one thing this week and do it well. It does not come naturally, but give it a shot. He has a football game to watch and he is not building anything the rest of the day. ASKS ON THE TABLE Follow everybody in the room and boost each other. Called To Construct says his feed has been full of amazing things since he did. Want a Sunday Builders Club sticker? Send Katherine your address in a DM. Try Uber TV at ubertv.dev. Plug it in and tell DevSec what you think. Bug reports and new feature ideas are welcome. Want in the X group chat? Message Wes, me or Called To Construct and we will add you. That is how we stay in touch all week. QUESTIONS STILL OPEN Q1. Portia's question that nobody cracked: what is the plain language for why you choose one agent over another, or Omarchy over a Mac? Not preference, the actual problem each one solves. Q2. Wes's challenge: what is the one thing you are building right now, and what did you have to shelve to finish it? NEXT SUNDAY Same time, 3PM EST on X Spaces! Pick your one thing and tell us what you shelved. Snowy was in the queue and X kept dropping him, so come back, Snowy! If you did not get to speak today, we are sorry, please come back! And remember! Help an old lady across the street, and when you get her over there, put Omarchy on her laptop. /Nix and Larry ## Transcript Machine generated. Speaker labels come from the transcription tool and are reused for different people; the summary says who is who. @ncfrontiersman: Hey, what's up? @ncfrontiersman: Yeah, because I want to make sure everyone is here. It's going to be a good one. @NixFred: Hey, Wes. Happy Sunday. @ncfrontiersman: Fred, can you hear me? @NixFred: I certainly can. Happy Sunday, brother. @NixFred: Happy Sunday, brother. How you doing? @ncfrontiersman: Called to construct. Can you hear me? @calledtocnstrct: Yeah, I can hear you. @ncfrontiersman: I think I'm not hearing audio for some reason. @NixFred: You hearing me, guys? @ncfrontiersman: What is going on? @NixFred: Hey, guys. Can you hear me now? @calledtocnstrct: Fred, I can hear you, and I can hear Wes, but I don't think Wes can hear either of us. @NixFred: Yeah, that might be the case. @NixFred: How are you doing today, called? @calledtocnstrct: I'm doing well. @NixFred: I spent the morning in my Spider-Man Jamie jams. I've been taking a little bit of mental time off of X for a minute. @calledtocnstrct: That's probably a good thing. @NixFred: Yeah, I encourage everybody to do that from time to time. We all talk about taking care of ourselves, but few of us do it, so I ejected for 24 hours. Kinda. @calledtocnstrct: Wes, I can... are you able to hear us now? @ncfrontiersman: I sure can. All right. @calledtocnstrct: Awesome. @ncfrontiersman: I think we're good to go. Fantastic. Well, we got one minute. @ncfrontiersman: We'll just kind of slowly ease into starting here. I hope everybody's having a good Sunday. @ncfrontiersman: The weather's beautiful here in North Carolina, that's for sure. @NixFred: Fall has arrived. @ncfrontiersman: Yes, it has. It sure has. So got a little fire going last night. @ncfrontiersman: The leaves are starting to turn. Season's changing, as it always does. @ncfrontiersman: All right, well, let's get started. Well, today, we are going to focus. @ncfrontiersman: We're going to lock in, as the kids say. We're going to really talk about this idea of the power that comes when you focus and you focus well on one thing. @ncfrontiersman: And in today's world, that does not come naturally. You know what I mean, Fred? @ncfrontiersman: But yeah, before we jump in, yeah, I'm Wes, North Carolina Frontiersman on X. I've been building software for many years and trying to figure out this new agentic world and what it means. @ncfrontiersman: And I'm glad to have all of y'all here to do it with me. Community is where I think we're all meant to be. @ncfrontiersman: We're not meant to be alone. So I love that about this community. @ncfrontiersman: So Fred, you want to do a quick intro and jump in? @NixFred: Yeah, man. Nick's Fred on X. I know many of the faces in here from having interviewed a bunch of you, and I'm continuing to do those, and they're really fun. @NixFred: I got Catherine coming up this week, I believe, and I'm excited to meet her face to face. To mention your community thing, X is a place where we mostly find ourselves anonymous, and a lot of us want to stay that way, and that's fine. @NixFred: Part of Wes and I's mission is to bring the community together and to meet everybody face to face and to really have relationships with folks inside and outside of X. And I think you're doing a marvelous job, Wes. @NixFred: A little bit about your multi-focus, I got a little bit to talk about you today, so we'll get there when we're ready. @ncfrontiersman: Okay. Yeah, that sounds good. Well, I figured we'd start out with some quote. @ncfrontiersman: And I don't know, is the chat working or not? Hard to know. @NixFred: I can never find it. Hold on. I think I might have found it. @NixFred: Okay. Yep. @NixFred: Why don't we use our Sunday Builders Club chat? @ncfrontiersman: Oh, yeah, that's a great idea. Let's do that. @NixFred: Yeah, let's do that. @ncfrontiersman: That is a great... that's why they pay you the big bucks. @ncfrontiersman: So I'm going to say a few quotes, and let's see if y'all can guess who these are. @ncfrontiersman: The successful warrior is the average man or woman with laser-like focus. The successful warrior. @NixFred: Well, I was going to say Sun Tzu, but I don't think he knew about lasers. @ncfrontiersman: I'll give you one word: Kung Fu. @ncfrontiersman: That's your hint. Okay. @ncfrontiersman: So that was Bruce Lee. @NixFred: Oh, come on. Kung Fu should have done it for me. @ncfrontiersman: Yep. This one may be a little easier. You got to block out all the noise and keep your eyes on the prize. @ncfrontiersman: That one. Philadelphia ran up the steps. @NixFred: Oh, Rocky. @ncfrontiersman: There you go. Rocky Balboa. Yep, that's right. @ncfrontiersman: This one, I know people are going to know. Wax on right hand, wax off left hand. @ncfrontiersman: Breathe in, breathe out. @NixFred: I'll give that one to you, called to constructs. Who is it? @calledtocnstrct: Oh, you surprised me. But yeah, that's... oh, crowded kid. @NixFred: Yeah, yeah. Mr. Miyagi. @calledtocnstrct: What's his name, though? I can't remember his name. @NixFred: Miyagi. Mr. Miyagi. @ncfrontiersman: That's right. That's right. Ralph Waldo, Emerson said, "Concentration is the secret of strength." @ncfrontiersman: So true. Here's anonymous. @ncfrontiersman: If you chase two rabbits, both will escape. @NixFred: Huh. Wow, that's a deep one. @ncfrontiersman: I know. I know. @NixFred: Guilty over here. @ncfrontiersman: Yeah. Here's one. Steve Jobs. @ncfrontiersman: That's been one of my mantras: focus and simplicity. He said, "Simple can be harder than complex. @ncfrontiersman: You have to work hard to get your thinking clean to make it simple. But it's worth it in the end because once you get there, you can move mountains." @ncfrontiersman: So last one I'll give is Alexander Graham Bell. He said, "Concentrate all your thoughts upon the working hand. @ncfrontiersman: The sun's rays do not burn bright until brought to a focus." @NixFred: So, Wes, wrap it all up, man. How does that... all these things are amazing. What does that mean to Omarchy and AI agentic platforms? @ncfrontiersman: Well, the thing is, we have all these new tools, right? We have all these new ways to build things, and it's so easy to kick off another prompt, kick off another agent running, and think, "Oh, man, I got this other idea. Oh, I got this other idea." @ncfrontiersman: And at the front of all that, it feels great. But at the backside of that, you end up with all of these open threads and streams that start to creep up in the back of your mind and kind of add to your load and stress, and it shreds, I think, your ability to do things well. @ncfrontiersman: And then you end up in this world of playing whack-a-mole, trying to keep up to date with everything. And I've always been one of those people that struggles with that, but deep in my core, I want to be one of those kind of people that focuses and builds a few things really well. @ncfrontiersman: You know what I mean? Instead of a lot of things that are sort of okay. @ncfrontiersman: And I think we have the power to do that now, especially with AI. But there's also this... it's more difficult, right? @NixFred: Yeah. And there's a real push and pull between the wisdom that you just shared, and I agree with all of it. But then the industry itself tells us not to do that. @NixFred: You hear these quotes like, "Be a 10X engineer." And what that means is you have your tabs open and go from agent to agent to agent. @NixFred: And it's why I've had trouble with my sleep here just this past week. I didn't sleep for 50 hours. @NixFred: And it was because I kept hitting the... you keep looking for that dopamine. And that's why I took a little bit of time off the past couple of hours, couple of days, the past day, because the industry pushes us, "Do more, do more. @NixFred: Now you have power. Keep it going. @NixFred: Be a 10X engineer. Open your tabs. @NixFred: Go from this tab to that tab." And so you got forces from both sides. @NixFred: Your wisdom on one side and the industry telling us we need to be 10X engineers to keep up with the world. @ncfrontiersman: Right. Yeah. And I guess you make a point like, "What is the reason we're doing this?" @ncfrontiersman: Are we trying to... for some of us, we're trying to earn money. We're trying to create a side stream of income. @ncfrontiersman: We're trying to... maybe we're looking for a job and haven't found one, and we're trying to get back into that. And so there is that pull of, "I need to try as many things as possible, and hopefully one of them sticks." @ncfrontiersman: And so I do get that side of it. But at the same token, I feel like there is a... you can only do that for so long before it begins. @ncfrontiersman: The human mind can't handle it. You begin to break and crack under that pressure, and then everything, right, that you start generating and building and outputting, kind of the quality goes way down. @ncfrontiersman: And so it's something you have to really be mindful at and think about, "What is the most important thing I could be working on right now?" And let me give that my all. @ncfrontiersman: And this doesn't mean you can't have side experimentation, things going on, and stuff like that. And so yeah, I wanted to kind of get your take on that, Fred. @ncfrontiersman: How do you tell a useful experiment? How do you tell that apart from a distraction? @ncfrontiersman: What would be a good example of that? @NixFred: Well, that's a deep one. And it hearkens me back to episode one where you and I started this out. And I remember very specifically, we were talking about the differences between how you and I work and how I'm all over the place and crazy and trying to keep everything going, and I'm guilty of all that. @NixFred: And how you explicitly stated that you're very simple and in a positive way and like to focus. And I think I could learn a lot from you on staying focused. @NixFred: So how do I turn an experiment into something useful? Your quote earlier, "You chase two rabbits and you'll catch neither one of them." @NixFred: I think that my success... I think my success in the when I find something that I think will work, I need to learn to slow down, to pace myself, and to... instead of trying, I think I'm guilty of taking everything and doing it all at once. Those being the experiments that you mentioned and shed that down to maybe two, maybe three instead of twelve. @ncfrontiersman: Yeah. Sorry, I dropped off there for a minute. Can you hear me? @NixFred: We can. @ncfrontiersman: All right. Cool. Oh, good. @ncfrontiersman: Yeah. Because I mean, I got most of what you said, I think. @ncfrontiersman: But there's this idea of inspiration comes all the time, and it may not come at the most convenient time. You might be in the middle of driving, or you might be cooking, or whatever situation you might be in where you're not really near somewhere to sit down. @ncfrontiersman: So I guess maybe something I'm curious about, Fred, is when you get these ideas on things to experiment, what's kind of your flow like? Do you kind of take notes, voice notes? @ncfrontiersman: Do you jot them down, just keep them in your head? Like, "Oh, I should build a plugin that lets me manage my fantasy football team or some random thing." @ncfrontiersman: I'm curious. @NixFred: Well, the upside is that you can build everything. The downside is that you can build everything. I do have a Quick Note on my iPhone and Notes that I keep stuff. @NixFred: And I found that I didn't really use it. So my method typically now is... and you're spot on about when you're cooking, when you're walking the dog... is when you have your biggest ideas and your biggest breakthroughs. @NixFred: And to be honest, I stopped writing them down, and I stopped putting them in a note because I determined that if it's good, it won't leave me. If it's something that's a rabbit that I'm chasing, that's sometimes we find ourselves saying, "I've got to find the next big thing. @NixFred: I've got to figure out what that thing is," and we kind of force it. And you really can't force inspiration. @NixFred: So what my method is now is if I think of it, I continue to think on it. And if it passes, then it probably wasn't worth going down anyway. @NixFred: So there's 50 things that come to my head at a time, and the two good ones that stay, then that's what I'll work on. @ncfrontiersman: Yeah. Yeah, that's right. I think part of that is rooted in trust versus fear, maybe. @ncfrontiersman: The idea that if I don't write all this stuff down, I might forget it, and I'll lose that inspiration, and then I won't build something cool. But I think if we trust that we know what we need, and we know what we need to build, and that the ideas will be there, I think then that hurry, that shredding of distraction kind of falls away. @ncfrontiersman: So it takes a bit of trust in yourself, I think. @NixFred: Yeah. And I've also found that I inspect my intentions and really put myself in the judgment seat on myself and say, "Why am I building that? Is my motivation that I want to be seen by others and that I want to be congratulated and get praise from others?" @NixFred: And that's something that's a dangerous place to get to. The things that I have been the most successful on in sharing things with X have come from necessity and things that I need to fix for myself. @NixFred: When I find that I do things for my own needs on my computer and share them, that's when I get the most response from folks. And when I try to say, "I'm going to build this because everybody will want it," and that voice in my head says, "You need to be famous. @NixFred: You need to be special. You need to be... " that voice in your head that's clearly not on my team is when it seems forced and other people don't really pay attention. @NixFred: So it's kind of letting go, man. Just let go. @NixFred: Find the things that you need for yourself and others may. And if it takes off, great. @NixFred: And we've got to learn. And me, especially, I've got to learn that if it doesn't, that's okay too. @ncfrontiersman: Yeah. Wow. Yeah. @ncfrontiersman: It comes back to letting go. That's kind of scary to do. @ncfrontiersman: But there is power, I think, in that. @NixFred: Yeah. And the last thing I'll say on that, and I'll shut up, is when I really get stressed out and I worry about things, I remind myself that in four billion years, the Earth and everything here is going to burn up in the sun, and it doesn't really matter. @ncfrontiersman: So true. So true. I mean, yeah, we're here for a short time, and just. @NixFred: Don't wait. Go ahead. @ncfrontiersman: Just use the gifts we're given to try to make the world a better place and try not to get stressed about it. And easier said than done, but I think that's a good life advice. Well, for fear of this turning too much into church or motivational speaking, I do want to get back to building. @ncfrontiersman: And I'm curious, Fred. So you said you took a break, but what's the coolest thing that you're working on right now? @ncfrontiersman: What is your big thing that you're doing? @NixFred: For me? @ncfrontiersman: Yeah, for you. @NixFred: So I started building Larry, my Claude code agent that is grown since January 8th. At 2:00 AM is when he was born, and he knows it. And I've been locked in and so hard-focused on Claude code is where I'm at, and Codex and all the other pieces and Kimi and all the other pieces. @NixFred: There's no way that Larry would ever be replaced. And this week, man, I got to say, and we're not sponsored by or any of that. @NixFred: I'm not endorsing Grockbot. This week, put Larry in the box, and Larry on Claude code is now a sub-agent to Grockbot. @NixFred: And that's kind of the biggest thing I'm working on. I didn't want to give up Larry and all that he's learned and all the understanding that he has about the way I work. @NixFred: And it happened all of a sudden that I think I've been so focused on, "I want to see it all." So in Claude code, you get to read it all, and we feel like we have to know. @NixFred: And I think the future is that you're not going to know, and we got to figure out how to be okay with that. I talked to Parker Brown this week, and he talked a lot about, and he builds Terminal Delight, which is a really interesting harness to take a look at. @NixFred: And I kind of Grockbot did so well, but I can't really look at what it's doing. And I'm kind of getting to the point where I don't care. @NixFred: And it's a weird flip because in the future, we're going to look back at the Claude code and the Codex and all the harnesses where we read it all. And it's going to go by the way the flip phone. @NixFred: And people are going to say, "Why are you doing that?" Because that's the old way. @NixFred: And we're going to have to let go of knowing what's really going on, which is kind of a sad thing because the kids and the folks coming up learning this stuff, they're not going to see the output. They're only going to see outcomes, and that's the future. @NixFred: And we're just going to have to understand that's the way it's going to be. @ncfrontiersman: Yeah. Yeah. That's true, man. @ncfrontiersman: Yeah. So Larry is your personal agent, and you've been crafting that since January. @ncfrontiersman: And now you've kind of said, "All right, it's time to let Larry move into being used by Grockbot and trust that all that you built will still be there." And that's cool. @ncfrontiersman: I think it's a great thing to focus on. I think these tools are wonderful at helping learning how we work, how we speak, communicate, the way we like our work to come out, and the things we care about as far as code quality and polish and approach and all, and building that in. @ncfrontiersman: Taking that time pays off dividends, for sure. I'd like to open the floor up now to folks that feel comfortable and want to share one thing that they're building, what their focus is, in the spirit of this week. @ncfrontiersman: Yeah. Let's try to keep focused on one topic. @NixFred: Can I interrupt you one thing? And I know you don't like this, but I got to do it. So you asked me about me, Wes. @NixFred: I want to talk about you. So this week, I know you hate that, but we got to do it. @NixFred: So you got Omastorm going. I saw you put a lot of work into Wisher this week. @NixFred: And it's kind of meta that we're here talking about it. But man, you have really been driving Sunday Build Club with the new handle, with the new I believe you're building a web page. @NixFred: And so it takes folks, it takes a lot of work to make these things happen. And Wes does the yeoman's load on it. @NixFred: So you got Rust from zero. You've been shipping software for 25 years, but never touched Rust before Omastorm, I think. @NixFred: Is that true? @ncfrontiersman: That's true. Yep. @NixFred: Right. So in the theme of this whole conversation, you got Omastorm, you got Wisher, you got Sunday Builders Club, which we're here now. You've got a new language to learn. @NixFred: How are you? How are you focusing, Wes? @ncfrontiersman: I'm coming to the realization that I want to focus on y'all first because, yeah, these things I'm building, I mean, they're tools. I'm building them for me. Like Wisher, I wanted a way from my Mac because I'm doing some macOS. @ncfrontiersman: I want to make Omastorm work on macOS and iOS too. So I'm running macOS for some things. @ncfrontiersman: And I want to be able to connect to my Omarchy machine from the Mac. And just there were some hacky ways I was doing it with Moonlight and Sunshine. @ncfrontiersman: It was like a game streaming way to do it. And I'm like, "Let me build something. @ncfrontiersman: Test out this new reverse engineering." And so that's been great, and I put it out there. @ncfrontiersman: But that's kind of now in a maintenance-ish mode because it works enough for me, and people can contribute. That's great and all. @ncfrontiersman: But the more I do this, I would much rather see all of y'all build cool things like that that are helping people and get it out there and see people get jobs and see people make relationships and learn new skills and feel confident. To me, that would be more up my alley than any little app that I build because I've been building for a long time. @ncfrontiersman: And I mean, I enjoy it, but I don't know. I love people, and I want to see people grow. @ncfrontiersman: And so this whole thing came just like a lot of impactful things in life came out of nowhere. I think I was just like, "Hey, Fred, you want to do an X space?" @ncfrontiersman: And he's like, "Yeah, let's do it." And I didn't know what it meant. @ncfrontiersman: I didn't know what it would turn into. And I think there's a hunger out there for people to connect with each other and not on a level of no one's better than anybody else. @ncfrontiersman: There's no boisterous voices in the room that you don't feel comfortable speaking up. There's no stupid questions. @ncfrontiersman: Like a safe community. Not in a woke way, but in a way that's like, "All right, yeah, I feel comfortable to join this group of people, no matter what background I come from, and let's go build some things." @ncfrontiersman: And the thing about X is great is it's kind of a platform for everybody. And you can be anonymous or not. @ncfrontiersman: Totally fine. Up to you, your level. @ncfrontiersman: And so I just love it. And I don't want this thing to be about me at all. @ncfrontiersman: I'm totally cool. So I created the handle, Sunday Builders Sunday Build Club, and the website's coming along and all that. @ncfrontiersman: But I would love it if it got to a point where I'm just kind of here in the background, just hanging out, helping, supporting, and all that, and then some more voices are speaking up and sharing because I don't think there's enough communities like this out there. I think it's either too focused on building, building, building at all costs, or hyper-focused on one particular stack or type of thing. @ncfrontiersman: And I think in this world of AI, it doesn't really it's not as important what your skill level as far as what languages you know. Used to, I was a JavaScript developer, I was a C# developer, I was a Rails dev, or whatever. @ncfrontiersman: And now those are kind of all meshing together, and it's like we're all builders, right? And so the idea that what does it mean to be a builder? @ncfrontiersman: What does it mean to build things well? And how can we take it? @ncfrontiersman: And if some of us want to earn money with it, how can we turn that into a profitable thing? So it's kind of like, how can we do that in the community setting? @ncfrontiersman: And I haven't seen a lot of these out there. And so I said, "All right, let's try it." @ncfrontiersman: And I think it's been great, man. @NixFred: Well, well said. Well said. And sorry to skip your plans and the thing, but I'm not going to each week, we're going to get used to it, Wes. @NixFred: We're going to have a Wes session every week. You want me to do the speakers and you talk to them, or do you want to handle it all? @NixFred: What would you like? @ncfrontiersman: I mean, it's fine. You can talk to them if you want to. @NixFred: I want to talk to them. I just want to free you up from having to pull them in. So how about we go with Porsche first? @NixFred: What do you think? @ncfrontiersman: That sounds good. Yeah. Maybe call Construct. @ncfrontiersman: You can help us pull them in and approve them and keep who's in order. @calledtocnstrct: Yeah. I was just going to speak up about that. So I've been watching as people come in to the request queue. @calledtocnstrct: And so if your request times out and you join back, I'll try to keep you in the order that you came in. And so that has happened a couple of times. @calledtocnstrct: But yeah, Porsche first and then Catherine. And I'll bring people in, cycle through that list as best I can. @NixFred: Rock on, man. You're awesome. And I did see on X, there was a release officially that supposedly promoting the speaker actually works now. @NixFred: So let's see if it does. @ncfrontiersman: Yeah. All right. Porsche, you're up. @ncfrontiersman: What's going on? @letsbuildanyway: Thank you so much for hosting this. This is great. @letsbuildanyway: I am going to put together what I've been thinking about for a while. So I've been going headfirst into Hermes. @letsbuildanyway: And I used Omachi several times this week, which I really liked. And I am thinking to myself, what kind of questions are we not asking ourselves in terms of choosing a tool? @letsbuildanyway: And I'm thinking of Hermes because I know with Claude, I've used stuff like everyone else here, Skills with the scheduling feature. But there's something very different about going to Hermes and saying, "Hey, can you give me a digest of all the Omachi news in the next week or every Friday at 3:00 PM?" @letsbuildanyway: And I think when we're talking to folks who haven't used ChatGPT, Claude, or even Hermes beyond a chatbot, that I don't know if we have the language to describe what is an agent bot, how to choose one, and how it could be useful. And so that's what I've been tinkering with for the past several days. @ncfrontiersman: Yeah. Yeah. No, that's a good one. @ncfrontiersman: Fred, you want to take this one? You got any thoughts? @NixFred: So Porsche, just to make sure I'm clear, you're talking about how do you choose where you do what? Is that correct? @ncfrontiersman: Interesting. @NixFred: It helps to turn the mute off. So Porsche, I think what you're talking about is how you choose which agent does what. Am I correct on that? @letsbuildanyway: No. @letsbuildanyway: No. I'm personally not confused about what to use, but I don't know I'm not very clear about the psychology of what makes a tool ergonomic as opposed to another tool. @letsbuildanyway: If someone came to me and said, "Hey, why are you using Claude over Hermes?" I just don't think I have the proper language, or even Omachi, more so Omachi. @letsbuildanyway: It's like, "What do you like about Omachi that's better than maybe using a Mac?" And I don't think that the vocabulary that I have really captures the contrast and the pros and the cons of it in a way that, I guess, would encapsulate why those tools are good for certain jobs and why they're attractive. @NixFred: I think it's personal preference. I think you got to train your mind where what makes sense for you. And as much as we're all Omachi forward and love it, I might get hate for this, but I'm sitting on a Macintosh right now with this because the spaces for Omachi on or the spaces for X on Omachi are a little bit flaky. @NixFred: So I think we got to avoid the pressure of Omachi everything. And this may be heresy, but I still use a Mac. @ncfrontiersman: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. @letsbuildanyway: It really doesn't capture what I'm trying to get at. This is not me being this is not me colonizing someone's technological choices. This is me wondering, what are some of the unspoken motivations and giving those words? @letsbuildanyway: That's it. @NixFred: Yeah. I guess it comes down to what are you using the tool for? I mean, some people use it to build software. @NixFred: Some people use it to organize their life. Some people are using it to do digests and routines like you're saying. @NixFred: I've heard of homeschool parents using them to help with homeschool. And I think at a high level, most of these tools do a good enough job as far as ChatGPT or Claude or Grokbot or whatnot, the consumer-friendly ones are all going to pretty much do a decent job. @NixFred: And it's like there's trade-offs. And so I hate to say it, but I think it just depends on the situation. @letsbuildanyway: I just think, hold on, that we just need to be a bit clearer about what that situation is. I think that we shouldn't stop at personal preference and situation. I want to be able to hear what problem someone's trying to solve and in a very articulate way be able to recommend a tool. @letsbuildanyway: And I'm not there yet. I can definitely recommend tools, but I want to be able to, once again, have the verbiage that matches the problem that the person is trying to solve. @NixFred: It's tough because the tools are always changing. So it's hard to just the language, I don't even know if it matters what the agent is. It's more of like, how are you using agentic tooling, period, and chatbots, period? @NixFred: Because they're all pretty much going to work at a basic level the same way. You talk to it in a chat, you ask things, it's going to respond with text, or it might generate an image or a PDF, or it might set a schedule to come back to you later. @NixFred: But in general, they're all kind of going to work the same way. And as you know, which one's better is going to change every two weeks when the new models come out. @NixFred: So I think it's more of just pointing people toward thinking about things in a systems kind of mindset of, how can I build systems to solve my problems with primitives? We're talking about jobs, like a job that runs at a certain schedule, like a recurring job. @NixFred: And it goes and does something and comes back with a response. @NixFred: I don't think I'm truly getting to the heart of your question, but. @letsbuildanyway: It's good enough for me. I'm satisfied. I have just questions today and no answers. @letsbuildanyway: Thank you. @NixFred: Yeah. No, it's good. I mean, it's something we all should think about. @NixFred: And if anybody else has any better ideas, put it in the chat. We can talk more. @NixFred: So thanks for speaking, Porsche. It was good to hear from you. @calledtocnstrct: We did get a request from DevSec to respond to Porsche. So if that's okay, we could take just a quick minute or two. @NixFred: Sounds good. @devsec_ai: Appreciate it, guys. So I just wanted to I just wanted to bring some clarity. I mean, it's a very interesting question. @devsec_ai: But I think the way we need to take a look at I don't think it's particularly about if you're trying to get someone acclimated into the ecosystem or if you want to talk about a single tool. I don't think it is a matter of a single tool. @devsec_ai: And I think we're doing this service ourselves talking about these tools as we call them agents. But agents also can have a negative connotation, right? @devsec_ai: But these are technically the right way to put it. They're automated personal assistants, right? @devsec_ai: And their entire premise is that it connects all the tools that matter to you and presents you information in a way that matters to you the most. If you look at it that way, then you're going to have to see that every tool is all the tools that matter to you, the workflows that matter to you is what makes it what makes it special, right? @devsec_ai: So there is no single tool that's good for everybody. Everybody has different preferences. @devsec_ai: Everybody has different lifestyles. Everybody has different workflows. @devsec_ai: The only way to take a look at this is these are automated, connected tools which allow you to do the job or the hobby that you love in a more time-efficient, in a fun way so that it doesn't take away so it doesn't look like another burden or it doesn't look like another time killer, etc. So it's simplified. @devsec_ai: It's basically I don't there are so many tools out there, right? What's good for me is never going to be good for somebody else. @devsec_ai: But what matters, I think, the most is to understand that if we were to talk about a universal language, these are universal automated tools connected just like connected to each other that presents you information that can help anybody deliver and achieve those tasks that matter to them the most. @NixFred: Yeah. Put yourself in the agent builder shoes. They're trying to make something that the Codex people that are building it, the Claude Code people that are building it, the Grokbot people, they're trying to make something that encapsulates and fills, to Porsche's point, everybody's requirements. @NixFred: And it's very difficult. I think we're going to see very hyper-focused utility-type AIs come out very shortly. @ncfrontiersman: Wonderful. Well, thanks, Martin. Appreciate it. @ncfrontiersman: That was helpful as well. And yeah, and so let's move on to the next person. @ncfrontiersman: And remember, it's what is the one thing you're building right now? And did you have to shelve anything to finish it? @calledtocnstrct: Yeah. Catherine, why don't you go ahead and step up, and then I'll start to cycle people through while you're talking. @omarchyftrou: Okay. Well, I can talk about how I think focus is highly overrated. At the moment, while we've been doing this club thing, I've updated my journal. @omarchyftrou: I've started another 3D print to build I guess what I'm making at the moment is something physical. I'm printing off some stuff for my granddaughter's birthday presents. @omarchyftrou: I don't know. @omarchyftrou: I find that if I try to focus on just one thing, I don't get as much done. If I have a bunch of things going on at once, I tend to have a lot of unfinished projects, but I also finish a bunch of them too. @omarchyftrou: And I don't know. I think it evens out. @ncfrontiersman: That's fair. I mean, I think what you're speaking to is some of us just are wired up differently too, and that's okay. @omarchyftrou: That's very true. Yeah. @ncfrontiersman: Some of us are multitaskers and are able to do that and thrive in that environment. I mean, the way I work is like that. So yeah. @omarchyftrou: Yeah. And speaking of multitasking, another thing that I've committed to do this week is to make stickers of the Sunday Builders Club logo. So anybody who wants some, send me your address in DM, and I'll send them out to you. @omarchyftrou: I'm going to just make a whole slew of them. So the cost of the stamp is something I can handle. @ncfrontiersman: Oh, yeah. That's awesome, Catherine. Thank you for doing that. @ncfrontiersman: We'll send you something to cover it too. @omarchyftrou: Oh, no problem. @ncfrontiersman: That's wonderful. @omarchyftrou: I tell you what. @omarchyftrou: For a thank you, subscribe to my newsletter. @ncfrontiersman: Oh, yeah. That's a great idea. Everybody, Catherine, share the link in the chat, and we'll hop on there. @omarchyftrou: Okay. Sure. @ncfrontiersman: That's wonderful. Well, it's good to hear from you. And I hope you have a good week. @ncfrontiersman: And we'll move on to the next. @calledtocnstrct: Yeah. Next up, we have piling things. And I saw that St. @calledtocnstrct: Zero Day dropped off. If you want to request again, I'll pull you up after compiling things. @calledtocnstrct: And then we'll keep rolling through. @ncfrontiersman: All right. And Catherine, can you mute your speaker? There's some feedback. @omarchyftrou: Sure. @ncfrontiersman: Thank you. All right. @Compilethings: Hey, guys. Y'all hear me? @ncfrontiersman: Sure can. @Compilethings: Okay. Compiling things here. I'm a hyper-focused builder. @Compilethings: I started playing with AI when it came out about a year ago, when it really got where people were doing coding with it and doing things that they weren't really capable of. I'm 49. @Compilethings: I'm a glassblower. I built homes, furniture, knives, art, scientific glass. @Compilethings: I've always been building. @Compilethings: But I bought my first computer then. I now own five within the last year. @Compilethings: I'm building synthetic data set pipelines with verification processing and then training models to show the uplift from the said data sets. @ncfrontiersman: Oh, that's cool. @Compilethings: My view on that is that that's the only mode that's going to be left. Data is going to be produced more and more every year. Companies are going to need to ingest it into models, know how to get it into them to get an edge. @Compilethings: So I started school again for machine learning and AI three months ago. And yeah, I'm pretty much all in. @Compilethings: I'm just sitting there building every day. @ncfrontiersman: Yeah. That's fantastic. @Compilethings: A T480 with Omarchy on it that hooks into my home network from wherever I am. I can hook into all my machines. I have seven Claude sessions running at once with one session orchestrating them all. @Compilethings: It never turns off. It runs when I sleep. @Compilethings: I post about it on my X all the time, what's working, what's not. And as to was it Porsche? @Compilethings: Yeah. I think these tools are all the same. @Compilethings: And you can make them into whatever you want, whether it be Hermes, Pi, Claude, Codex. You can make any of them yours and make them work for you. @Compilethings: Yeah. If you build the right MD files, if you build the right things around it, all of them will do the same jobs. @Compilethings: I'm interested in Omarchy. I've started a I'm interested in a lot of stuff, but I'm 4,000 hours deep in the data sets and the other one. @Compilethings: But I just started another project to build a CyberDeck and get into hardware and let AI do that. But it's just this side that I just look at every now and then. @Compilethings: So I mean, I thought to join. I'm in Norway. @Compilethings: I'm an American, but I've been here for 23 years, something like that. @ncfrontiersman: Well, it's good to hear from you. I mean, welcome. And synthetic data set pipelines, that's awesome. @ncfrontiersman: It is crazy to even be talking about being able to do it, right? @Compilethings: Yeah. Yeah. I have five computers that it's literally a pipeline. @Compilethings: They ran for 30 days straight, pegged out. @ncfrontiersman: Do you mind sharing an example of some of the data going through that, like a use case? @Compilethings: I did my evaluation on it. It's on Hugging Face under compiling things. I'm compiling things all over the internet here, Level 1 text, Reddit. @Compilethings: I'm the same. You'll see the rabbit. @ncfrontiersman: Very good. @Compilethings: The data set I built first and I'm working on now is algorithmic trading, MQL5. It's used in all of the currency trading in the world. It's a trillion-dollar market. @Compilethings: They just opened up their platform to agents a few months ago. They burned a trillion tokens through their platform in three weeks. @ncfrontiersman: Wow. @Compilethings: I have a 14 billion parameter model I trained on the data set for it that is as good as GPT-5.6 sold. @ncfrontiersman: Wow. Wow. So you're. @Compilethings: I'm 0.3% behind it. If you can read the evaluation, if you go to my thing and click on Hugging Face compiling things, all of it's there. @Compilethings: I don't release the data sets. I don't release the method to build the data sets. @Compilethings: I just release the evaluations that show the proof of what the data sets do. @ncfrontiersman: Gotcha. @Compilethings: My goal was to be able to I'm building a framework that you can point at any domain and build these data sets that give you an expert in that domain that you can run on your own GPU. @ncfrontiersman: Is that something you'll release? @Compilethings: The framework? No. I don't think so. @Compilethings: I'd rather sell it and retire, I think. @ncfrontiersman: Would we? No shame in that. Well, hey, it's good to hear from you. @ncfrontiersman: You're doing some cool stuff. @Compilethings: I would help people, though, do it. @Compilethings: I would sign NDAs with people if they wanted to do it and help them set up a system. But I think the verification is the key, not the data set pipeline. @Compilethings: Especially with algorithmic trading, it's proving that the code does what it does. Because just because the code compiles doesn't mean that it trades at the right time. @Compilethings: It could still have the wrong code and trade wrong, and people would be losing money, and they don't know. @Compilethings: But if you can verify it, that it does trade at the right time, and then train and model on that, then you have something different. @Compilethings: So the hunt is ground truth data. I'm pretty close. @Compilethings: I'm pretty close. @ncfrontiersman: Well, we'll keep building, keep focusing, and it'll be interesting to see what comes of it. It was good to have you. All right. @ncfrontiersman: Let's move on to the next speaker. And then, yeah, thanks for speaking. @calledtocnstrct: All right. We have two Christophers coming up, so I'll clarify specifically. Christopher Weiss first. @calledtocnstrct: Hopefully, I pronounced your name right. And then Christopher Smeekraft after that. @ncfrontiersman: All right. And so let's focus on let's talk about the one thing that you're building right now. @NixFred: Hey, Christopher. I know what it is. We talked yesterday, man. @NixFred: Let's hear it. @OnTheLiftAI: Yeah. Can you guys hear me okay? @NixFred: Oh, yeah. @OnTheLiftAI: Yeah. So I got one headphone in, and I'm outside. So sorry if it's kind of blurry or noisy, but it is good. @ncfrontiersman: Yeah. You sound great. @OnTheLiftAI: Okay. Perfect. So what I'm building now is intake a large AI model, an LLM. @OnTheLiftAI: And then you dissect the large model down and use that as a database to then feed a smaller LLM for agent decoding and agents so we can help get this thing localized. @ncfrontiersman: Wow. Yeah. That's awesome. @ncfrontiersman: So that you wouldn't need to be on the internet even? Is that what you're saying? @ncfrontiersman: You can just run the whole thing locally, not need the cloud connection? @OnTheLiftAI: Yep. That's kind of what I'm focusing on is getting things off the internet, owning your data, owning your LLM. And then the beautiful thing is if you take a large model and split it up, you can build your own LLM, essentially, because you know how they have billions of parameters. @OnTheLiftAI: Well, let's say we don't need how to speak a certain language or you don't need XYZ. You can build your own from a plug-in store, essentially, and tailor your own LLM to you. @ncfrontiersman: Love it. And in your mind, is it that you would create one LLM for yourself or maybe several purpose-built ones? Like one that you use to build websites or one that you use as a personal assistant? @ncfrontiersman: Or is that kind of what you're thinking? @OnTheLiftAI: Yes, essentially. So instead of having the scaled-out MDs, it would be more of, "This is how we do this." So it'd be a small file batch of other documents and examples to then send the smaller model and give it the knowledge and reasoning on how to actually accomplish those things. @OnTheLiftAI: So if I need a model that is only good at sending emails, for example, I'm going to download the small model for the conversational part and then give it the skill or the knowledge base on how to send emails. That's just an example. @ncfrontiersman: Yeah. I love it. @OnTheLiftAI: And then let's say, "Oh, it can send emails really well. Well, let's have it do some vibe coding for us." So I'm going to download the vibe coding pack. @OnTheLiftAI: And then from there, now my agent only does emails and vibe coding as well as it possibly can on local hardware. @ncfrontiersman: Yeah. Yeah. I actually love that. @ncfrontiersman: I'm thinking about use cases for that concept at work even because we build in specific stacks only in my day job. And we have something like ability to fix flaky tests. @ncfrontiersman: We have a lot that's specialized just for that or model, I mean. Very cool, man. @OnTheLiftAI: Yeah. Exactly. And then if I could also touch base really quickly, sorry, guys. @OnTheLiftAI: You mentioned something about using Moonlight as far as a remote desktop application. @ncfrontiersman: That's right. Yep. @OnTheLiftAI: Okay. What I found that works really well for me, I have Linux, Mac, iOS, Android. It's kind of all over the place. @OnTheLiftAI: I use what's called RustDesk. It's free, open source. @OnTheLiftAI: You can host it yourself. And it's actually fantastic. @OnTheLiftAI: You don't need to install anything. You can just have a one-time executable if you need to as well for any computer you walk up to. @ncfrontiersman: It's called RustDesk, you said? @OnTheLiftAI: Yes. Yep. Rust, R-U-S-T-D-E-S-K. @OnTheLiftAI: It's kind of like TeamViewer, but it's open source. @ncfrontiersman: Well, that's cool. Yeah. Yeah. @ncfrontiersman: Yeah. I had been using Moonlight, but then I built a tool that lets you use the built-in macOS screen sharing app. @ncfrontiersman: And then, yeah, you install this small Rust server on your any hyperland-based desktop, Omarchy or whatever, and then you can connect over high-performance mode and all that. @OnTheLiftAI: Okay. I digress then. I digress. @OnTheLiftAI: That actually sounds a lot better. @ncfrontiersman: No, but I mean, it not only does Mac to Linux, but you're saying if you got Windows or others, that'd be cool too. So very cool. @ncfrontiersman: Well, hey, it's good to hear from you. Hopefully, you're digging out of the hurricane down there. @OnTheLiftAI: Yeah. She was a wild one, but everything's good. @ncfrontiersman: Good. Good. All right, man. @ncfrontiersman: Well, I hope you have a good week, and we can move on to the next speaker. @OnTheLiftAI: Sounds good. Thank you, guys. @ncfrontiersman: Yeah. @calledtocnstrct: I just wanted to put a quick plug-in for if you look around the room and there are people that you're not following, you might want to consider doing that because I'm seeing some amazing things in my feed now. @ncfrontiersman: Yeah. It's a great callout, man. Thanks for saying that. @ncfrontiersman: Yeah. We all should follow everybody and boost each other. @ncfrontiersman: That's the way this keeps going. So all right. @calledtocnstrct: Yeah. So next, we have Christopher Smeekraft. And I just wanted to mention that Snowy was in queue, but dropped off. @calledtocnstrct: So if you still want to speak, go ahead and request again. @Smeekraft: Yeah. Good evening, ladies and gentlemen. Yeah. @Smeekraft: My name is Christopher, and I released today my first project called Omarclusive. @Smeekraft: Named it that way as an homage for my enthusiasm for Omarchi because Omarchi was a game changer for me. @Smeekraft: Over the years, I've been trying to get more into Linux systems very often, try to step foot in with Ubuntu, Distro, Fedora, whatever, two years ago or so. @Smeekraft: It was Linux Mint. And every time something was every time there was something because I didn't get stronger into it. @Smeekraft: Omarchi was different because it already made important decisions before. @Smeekraft: Okay. I installed it, and it runs. @Smeekraft: Okay. By Linux Mint, I had a problem with the wireless LAN. @Smeekraft: I tried to fix that, and after one week, and problem here, problem there. Okay. @Smeekraft: For me, computers are tools. And if I need more time to fix them, then use them as a tool, then there's a problem. @Smeekraft: You need to know in Germany, we have only Windows and Linux. Linux only in industrial systems, business systems, and Windows is 80% of the market. macOS is not very yeah. @Smeekraft: We have no macOS culture in Germany. @NixFred: That's interesting. That's interesting. And I hear you what you're saying. @NixFred: It's interesting to me that Germans don't enjoy the fixing part, which I found interesting for you. And I get you because and I had the exact same problem on Mint when I was trying to use one of the wireless cards. @NixFred: I think the RioTech is notorious within the Linux community for having trouble. So what you're doing sounds like to me is finding the tools that work best for you with the least friction. @NixFred: Is that correct? @Smeekraft: Yes. I want a tool that does its job. Okay. @Smeekraft: It's like a table saw. I can have this table saw, this table saw in the end. @Smeekraft: It needs to make its job. @Smeekraft: So Omarchi was here the difference because it says, "Okay. I do this this way. @Smeekraft: I do this this way." But also, I have this agentic aspect. @Smeekraft: So you don't need to stay there. Okay. @Smeekraft: You can make it your own. But if you start, it runs. @Smeekraft: So this is my little journey to Omarchi and why I'm so enthusiastic about it because it was a good experience. Okay. @ncfrontiersman: Right. Right. @Smeekraft: And for my okay. Just talk. @NixFred: So it sounds like to me you're really leaning in on the opinionated side in a good way. @Smeekraft: I don't know. It's good. It's my way. @NixFred: Right. Right. Well, Omarchi has been defined as in its tagline is an opinionated Linux. @NixFred: And you touched on a lot of decisions are made for you. And I think the goal there is to remove the friction that people face in trying to install Linux. @NixFred: And ironically, it landed on Arch, which might be the least opinionated Linux there is. And all the things I'm hearing you talk about are about the friction within your work. @NixFred: You're willing to do some of the work, but it sounds like Omarchi found the place for you that had some of those decisions made for you. It just works. @NixFred: It's still a tool, but it seems to do the jobs that you need. Is that correct? @Smeekraft: Yeah. Yeah. I think it's important, the balance. @Smeekraft: It's an important thing about the balance for a tool. Okay. @Smeekraft: It runs. It makes its job. @Smeekraft: It makes it good. But I have the possibility to change it the way I want to use it. @Smeekraft: But I don't need to change it. Okay. @Smeekraft: And so that's my way to Omarchi. @ncfrontiersman: Wonderful. @Smeekraft: The project I released today on GitHub was the first. @Smeekraft: My background is I worked my whole life as a nurse with people with profound multiple disabilities. And I was. @Smeekraft: I was. I made myself a gift, and I finished my contract. @Smeekraft: My contract will end to the end of the year. And now I try to use my experience to build tools which maybe, hopefully, will help fix the problems I saw in my career, which the systems of gatekeepers, the social system, the medicine system is full of gatekeepers. @Smeekraft: And I call it a gift I made myself, but it was uninvincible because it destroyed me. @Smeekraft: I was so long in this industry, and I found no way out. I tried to fix this gatekeeper system from within, but you cannot do it. @Smeekraft: You cannot fix the system from within. So I get out and try to make it the way I think. @Smeekraft: And for Omarclusive, last sentence, I love to hear me talking, even in English. @NixFred: Hey, man. We really appreciate you jumping by and sharing. I hear what you're saying about the opinionated part can be helpful. @NixFred: It is interesting to hear a German say he likes others to make the opinions. But hey, man, thanks for stopping by and thanks for sharing with us. @NixFred: Called who we got next? @calledtocnstrct: Let's see. Yeah. Thank you. @calledtocnstrct: Snowy's been not able to stay in the queue. So I'm going to continue to watch. @calledtocnstrct: And if we're able to get X to cooperate, we'll do that. But next up then would be Boyd and then Michael. @calledtocnstrct: And I'll keep bringing people up. Just be patient if you can. @calledtocnstrct: And I'm really enjoying the conversation. Thank you, everyone. @NixFred: You're doing great, man. Thanks for your help. @0xBOYD: Hey. Thanks for having me on. Can you hear me? @calledtocnstrct: Yes. @0xBOYD: All good? All right. Perfect. @0xBOYD: Yeah. So Fred and I sort of bumped shoulders over the past several months, I suppose. @0xBOYD: You may have seen me online before just from the Touch ID on Intel Mac. Thing. @0xBOYD: I sort of had that get a little bit of attention in the Omarchi space. And then I've since met a lot of cool people. @0xBOYD: But in the nature of this call, have now gone to focusing on my one thing. So I feel like a little bit of a traitor because I've been completely silent on the Omarchi front. @0xBOYD: I'm running a startup, and it's kind of like I got to really put my nose to the grindstone on what I'm doing for my benefit and the benefit of my co-founders and our families. But last week, Fred invited me to a call, and I wasn't able to make it. @0xBOYD: It was my daughter's birthday party. But I said, "Hey, I'll jump on next week." @0xBOYD: And what we were working on last week and that I actually want to share, it's not my product. It's not anything remotely useful, but it's a lot of fun. @0xBOYD: I was thinking about how do you teach how am I going to teach my children how to create with computers today? Because it's not going to be at all about how I did it. @0xBOYD: I tinker with computers, and I would play with them until they broke, and then I would fix them. And that's how I learned to do everything. @0xBOYD: And from there, got into design and programming and writing scripts and just sort of self-taught computer science over the years. And I just realized that my kids are never going to have to do that, and I have to be okay with that as much as it pains me as a parent to be like, "But I want you to do it the way I did it because it worked so well. @0xBOYD: It was so good." @NixFred: Yeah. And it gave us so much understanding about how computers work. @0xBOYD: Yeah. I agree. But I think that if they want to know that, that's going to have to be elective. @0xBOYD: It's not necessary for them to succeed. @NixFred: That's exactly right. @0xBOYD: Yeah. So what I did is we have a steam machine. So Valve, the company that makes steam, I'm pretty sure everybody's familiar. @0xBOYD: They have their own sort of console-like experience now called a steam machine. It's a little GameCube-sized box that you put next to your TV. @0xBOYD: And it's meant to be a living room console. And so it's also a full Linux machine, which is really cool. @0xBOYD: So I can SSH into that thing, and I can install a bunch of stuff that just runs forever when the user's logged in. So I have some coding agents on there logged in through my Claude and Codex accounts. @0xBOYD: And including Codex supports voice now. I don't know if you know this, but through your subscription, you can have voice sessions with Codex on the CLI, which is awesome. @0xBOYD: So I set up a system where my kids can talk to a voice thread that's connected to a bunch of other threads through a coordinator. I call it the foreman, and the foreman has the voice thread and then a bunch of workers. @0xBOYD: And they can just talk to this game that I made. And the game itself is like a factory for making games. @0xBOYD: So they can make games, and they just talk to it, and it will create tasks, which show up in the sidebar. And they will oh, awesome. @0xBOYD: My co-founder's messaging me. I didn't even realize it was in this chat. @0xBOYD: That's awesome. Okay. @0xBOYD: So sorry for that. Now I'm super nervous. @0xBOYD: My kids can just talk to the computer, and these cards get queued up in the sidebar, and they can see what the computer's working on. And then the game engine that I chose is specifically targeted towards being able to hot reload with Lua scripts. @0xBOYD: So it doesn't even require the game to restart. And they made this crazy couch competitive four-player game with sort of a fixed overhead camera. @0xBOYD: I made a little site for it. I'm going to drop it in the chat. @0xBOYD: I literally made this an hour before the call. I asked Claude, "Can you help me explain to people what I did?" @0xBOYD: So I'm going to drop this in the builders chat. And it's just a little magazine article kind of page about it, but it shows what they made. @0xBOYD: It's called Little Backyard, and you play as bananas that throw bananas that blow up. And you're trying to just knock the other players off the map, and you can pick up power-ups. @0xBOYD: But it's just super cool to watch because we can sit there with a controller, and we can just talk to it. And when it detects that a feature has been requested and the clarity was high enough, it'll put it in the queue. @0xBOYD: And if it wasn't high enough, it'll ask clarifying questions. And then there's another voice when there's updates that'll just talk to you and be like, "Hey, this is now in the game." @0xBOYD: And so we've made different themes of maps. We've added different power-ups. @0xBOYD: We've changed the character models several times. Eventually, it settled on bananas. @0xBOYD: So that's in the chat if anybody wants to look at it. But yeah, the motivation behind it was really just coming to terms with everything has changed. @0xBOYD: The way that kids are going to interact with computers will not be the way I did it when I was their age, and I have to be okay with that. And I just need to teach my children how to be creative because the value of software is now zero, just outright, is completely worthless. @0xBOYD: If you're in the business of selling software, you're going to have a really bad time. And all they need to do is know that something can be done and ask for it to be done and just have that going back to the Omarchi conversation from before, have that opinionation and have what they want to have exist in the world manifest. @0xBOYD: And then later, if they're interested, yeah, they can figure out how that all works. But that's not the important part anymore. @0xBOYD: So that's my spiel. Thank you for letting me talk. @NixFred: Hey, man. It was great having you. You're doing great work. @NixFred: We do notice when you disappear, so come back frequently. And it was great talking to you. @0xBOYD: Yeah. Thank you. @ncfrontiersman: All right. Yeah. Yeah. @ncfrontiersman: I was just going to say, Boyd, that's pretty sick, actually. I love that idea. @ncfrontiersman: It's basically a game factory that they can just add features to the queue. It picks it up, and it builds a game. @ncfrontiersman: I think that's such a cool idea. @0xBOYD: That's right. Yeah. And specifically focused on not having to reload the game as much as possible. @0xBOYD: I was like, "I want hot module reloading for video games." I come from the front-end jobs world. @0xBOYD: So I was like, "Just give me that." @ncfrontiersman: Me too, man. Me too. Brings back webpack memories. @ncfrontiersman: Yeah. That's really cool. @ncfrontiersman: Well, can't wait to hear how that's going. Anything else you're working on next time? @ncfrontiersman: Who's up next? @calledtocnstrct: I'll just say that's really amazing. I'm blown away. But Michael, we have coming up next and then her. @calledtocnstrct: And I'll keep bringing people in as the requests come in. Thanks. @ncfrontiersman: Sounds good. @MichaelH_rley: Hey, everybody. @NixFred: I know you. @MichaelH_rley: So the one thing I've been focused on here lately is Omadizine, trying to make the best graphic design experience be on the best operating system experience, which is Omarchi. I think we can all agree that we all felt liberated when we first installed Omarchi and got to see, especially with the Quatro update, just how ready it was for us developers. But then me, as a 25-year graphic designer, didn't have a professional design tool to go with it. @MichaelH_rley: So I'm building that actively, and that's been my primary focus so people can continue to create the things that they created and have the freedom to switch to Omarchi, not be stuck on their Macs. So that's been my focus. @MichaelH_rley: And to Fred's point at the very beginning of this with productivity unlocks and focus unlocks, I've been only coding for the last three weeks with my agents. And T3 Codes updates have been a game changer for me with the new orchestrator and the working section. @MichaelH_rley: I can kick off a thread, and it disappears, and it's hard to find. And that's perfect for me because then I can keep working on my work while it works. @MichaelH_rley: And when it's done, I get an update, and I don't have to worry about watching the thread as it goes anymore. And that's been a godsend for me because it just disappears. @MichaelH_rley: And then Proportions point with Hermes that you're going to love because it's going to adapt to you as you prompt it, the way that you prompt it. Hermes automatically will just become its own malleable system for you. @MichaelH_rley: So watch for that as you use it, Portia. @MichaelH_rley: And then somebody mentioned Grokbot earlier and how they were loving giving oh, Larry or Fred, you were talking about putting Larry in Grokbot. And Grokbot as well has been a godsend for me, and I have it manage all of my incoming inbox stuff. @MichaelH_rley: And then also now it's managing my T3 Code experience because of the new MCP service that we launched in that where I can just tell Grokbot, "Kick off three T3 Code threads to get this work done." And it gets it done. @MichaelH_rley: So that's how I've been staying focused. @ncfrontiersman: That's great, man. Yeah. I think we're in a world where when these agents came out at first, it was very much you sit down in an interactive session, you work on it, and you might open up a few more threads, and you're bouncing back and forth. @ncfrontiersman: But I think we're finally entering a world where the quality is getting high enough that you can sort of delegate to an extent and then have these tools, like you mentioned, like T3 or Grokbot or Hermes or whatever homegrown thing you build. And it can kind of kick off these sub-agents and let them do their work and come back. @ncfrontiersman: And so I think that's a lot better for our minds. @calledtocnstrct: Absolutely. @ncfrontiersman: Than the world we were living in, so. @NixFred: Yeah. It was a lot of fun talking to you on the Zoom the other day. Michael, you're a really interesting guy. @MichaelH_rley: Oh, thanks. @ncfrontiersman: Cool. Well, all right, Michael, I hope you have a good one. And who we got next calling to construct? @calledtocnstrct: Coming up next is her. And then we'll have DevSec and Mgldvd after that. @ncfrontiersman: Sounds good. And yeah, so we'll try to wrap up in about 20 minutes here. So we've probably got if anybody else wants to speak up, go ahead and request because we'll try to wrap up here about 20 minutes. @PerWendelboe: All right. I'll go next. Can you hear me all right? @ncfrontiersman: Yeah. I might need to speak up just a little bit. @NixFred: Yeah. Just speak up a little bit for us. @PerWendelboe: I'll get the mic a little closer. Is it better now? @ncfrontiersman: Yep. That worked. @NixFred: I don't think we got him. Can't hear you, bro. Should we move to DevSec? @NixFred: I know what he's working on. He's got something really cool he's working on. @calledtocnstrct: Wes, I'm not sure if you can hear me. I can hear her just fine. @ncfrontiersman: Yeah. @PerWendelboe: Is it better now? @ncfrontiersman: Yeah. Yeah. I can hear you. @ncfrontiersman: Yep. @PerWendelboe: Okay. Yeah. Sorry about that. @PerWendelboe: I'm not really sure. Yeah. @PerWendelboe: I'll try and be a little faster, I guess. Here I'm 50. @PerWendelboe: I work as a management consultant. I've done for, well, actually a couple of decades in ERP, NetSuite primarily. @PerWendelboe: My daughter recently was old enough that I thought that, "Hey, maybe I'll start doing things for myself as well." Actually, I've always been developing basic on the Commodore 128 ages and ages ago. @PerWendelboe: And quite recently, basically sort of enabled by vibe coding, I guess, sort of let the reins loose, so to speak. But it was probably only this summer that I really did that. @PerWendelboe: Otherwise, I did try and focus a lot on my day job, basically. But since then, I actually did quite a lot. @PerWendelboe: My sister has a company, and she was tired of paying API fees to Google. So I built her a Google Maps clone, including pulling geo JSON file of all of Denmark, reverse lookup of addresses. @PerWendelboe: It's literally like a complete Google Maps in her app, which I used Manus for. She paid that, so that was good. @PerWendelboe: But yeah, actually to the point where they sent me a T-shirt, I'm guessing. Yeah. @PerWendelboe: I maybe should have hoped for a little more, but never mind. I then recently sort of because I'm so fascinated by the whole Omarchi movement in the sense of it feels like I'm back on my Commodore 128D. @PerWendelboe: So I joined the Copenhagen meetup and ran an install help booth, got a couple of potatoes enabled. So I have a I'll release it start of next week, but I have a potato mode plugin for Omarchi that I'll release. @PerWendelboe: It's basically because as I saw at the meetup that whenever you were installing on something that's sort of old, old, like 2007, sort of going on 20 years, then you can install it, but you'll actually be looking at the Arch bootloader logo for maybe 35 minutes till it actually sort of boots into the install script. But to be fair, it did work on there were a couple of really old ones that we did there. @PerWendelboe: However, I also realized that obviously the second that you get that done and you want to sort of start using it essentially for real, the problem will start once you try and kick off a modern browser or something like that because basically it will run out of memory very fast. So that's what the potato mode plugin will help you do, basically aiming at essentially a 1 gigabyte RAM footprint. @PerWendelboe: I'm using Grokbot for a lot of that as well. And I agree with some of the previous speakers. @PerWendelboe: It really leveled up. It is absolutely awesome. @PerWendelboe: This week, I also launched erp-localizations.com, made only by a side hustle Grokbot, essentially, that's just looking for different things and sort of quizzing me on I do know a lot about that topic. So for that reason, it was sort of, yeah, a good idea. @ncfrontiersman: Cool. @PerWendelboe: I also yeah, go ahead. @ncfrontiersman: Yeah. I was just going to say that's great. Yeah. @ncfrontiersman: It really has unlocked a lot, the ability to have these agents. And we can just kind of have conversations, and they'll go off and do things for us and come back. @PerWendelboe: Yeah. It's fascinating. Yeah. @PerWendelboe: Actually, I put it so far that I had a demo at the Copenhagen meetup with Omarchi where I have a Grokbot setup where computer use and some other stuff enabled. And I released basically an Omarchi UI helper Grokbot template. @PerWendelboe: I released that, I guess, on the 15th a couple of days ago, also sort of hoping to help the adoption because basically you can just install, open up Grokbot, install that template, and it will help you do absolutely everything. Even if you can't navigate the menus, it will computer use through the menus for you. @NixFred: That's awesome, brother. All right. Thanks for coming by. @NixFred: And we appreciate your input. @PerWendelboe: My pleasure. Thanks. @ncfrontiersman: All right. Who's next? @calledtocnstrct: DevSec. What you got? @NixFred: Wow. DevSec. What's up, brother? @devsec_ai: What's up, guys? All right. So I mean, not new at this point, right? @devsec_ai: I mean, I've been marketing the hell out of it, but introducing Uber TV, right? So a media center for Omarchi. @devsec_ai: We've got a professional style. It's still in the alpha stage. @devsec_ai: There's a lot that should that'll go there. And hopefully, with all your contributions and PRs. @devsec_ai: But basically, we've got a full-on program guide. You can load your YouTube channels, IPTVs, YouTube live channels, IPTVs. @devsec_ai: And it basically comes with 160 YouTube channels already that you can load up right from the get-go. Multi-viewing with the minimized window, custom apps. @devsec_ai: And one of the first apps will probably drop in the next 24 hours. @NixFred: Man, I've been using it this morning already since you DM'd me that pre-look. And I got to tell you, man, I was expecting X, and I got X plus 35. It's really solid. @NixFred: It's free. And it is really good stuff. @devsec_ai: Thank you. Appreciate it. So I won't suck the air too much because, I mean, I talk to you guys almost every hour. @devsec_ai: But those of you who haven't followed my work, there's Uber Notebook, which allows you to track your notes. And now the Uber TV, which basically allows you to give you that media center, which I'm planning on also have gaming section to it where you can actually plug in your games directly to it. @devsec_ai: And it'll be more like a more unified console than it is right now. But I think give it a try. @devsec_ai: Happy to hear what you guys think. And you can basically get it from going into ubertv.dev, very easy. @devsec_ai: Just plug it in, see what you think. Happy to hear your thoughts. @devsec_ai: Happy to hear bug fix or add new features as you guys bring it up. And I appreciate this community for giving the opportunity to speak out and spotlight the projects. @devsec_ai: You guys are doing a fantastic job. Thank you so much. @NixFred: Great job. Congratulations. @calledtocnstrct: Thanks. @NixFred: Thank you. @ncfrontiersman: Yeah. Thank you so much. And we're going to end on that note. @ncfrontiersman: And there's always more time to speak next week if anybody's got anything to bring. But yeah, I just want to close out. @ncfrontiersman: We're talking about focus, right? Yeah. @calledtocnstrct: Hey, Wes. We do have one more person, Mgldvd. Do we have maybe a couple more minutes? @calledtocnstrct: If not, we can. @ncfrontiersman: Yeah. We can do that. That's fine. @ncfrontiersman: Yep. @calledtocnstrct: Okay. They've just been waiting quite some time, so I just wanted to see if we could do that. Mgldvd, go ahead and unmute and see what we can do. @ncfrontiersman: Sure. @calledtocnstrct: Yeah. You should be able to speak if you want to unmute Mgldvd. @Mgldvd_tech: Okay. So sorry, sorry about that. You guys hear me? @Mgldvd_tech: Yeah. Fine. @calledtocnstrct: Yeah. Good now. @Mgldvd_tech: Okay. Thank you. So my name is Miguel David. @Mgldvd_tech: So that's why it's Mgldvd. So it's like Michael David. @Mgldvd_tech: I'm from Colombia. And what I'm building right now, a lot of stuff. @Mgldvd_tech: One of my main projects is one in is right now in GitHub. It's called GOG. @Mgldvd_tech: That one is for customize your terminal. Right now, I need to check the support for Omarchi right now, for Omarchi. @Mgldvd_tech: But I guess it has it. But yeah, it has like 10K stars. @Mgldvd_tech: I started that project really long ago. So that's my main project that I work on. @Mgldvd_tech: And also, a couple of weeks ago, I also launched Gonna Launcher. It's a launcher for Omarchi too. @Mgldvd_tech: And it's like my always I want a really nice launcher for my Linux Mint, for example. And Omarchi is like a perfect OS for build and stuff. @Mgldvd_tech: And also, it's curious because I was thinking about I'm not in any community. I don't participate too much in social media and stuff. @Mgldvd_tech: And lately, I've been trying to do that. And it's funny because I was thinking about builders because I saw all these communities that always talk about some topic, and they talk and talk and talk, and they support each other. @Mgldvd_tech: But it's not like there are builders or they are building something in common, things like that. So that's why I gave the courage to talk here. @ncfrontiersman: Well, I appreciate you coming, man. Yeah. I mean, you're right. @ncfrontiersman: It is all about community. And it's great to have you. @ncfrontiersman: And everybody should feel comfortable to speak up. And there's nothing too small to ask, nothing too big. @ncfrontiersman: As long as we stay focused on each other and helping each other out and putting others first, then that's all you can ask. So it's good to have you. @ncfrontiersman: And on that note, I think we're going to call it. I don't think. @ncfrontiersman: I know we're going to call it because I got a football game to go watch and some rest to do. I'm not going to build anything the rest of the day. @ncfrontiersman: I don't know about y'all. But let's try to focus, right, this week as we have our time, whether it's this is what we do full-time or we do it on the side. @ncfrontiersman: Let's try to pick one thing and do it well and make that it doesn't come naturally sometimes, but let's just give it a shot and see how it goes. And on that note, appreciate everybody. @ncfrontiersman: We'll see you next week, same time. Looking forward to hearing what all you've been doing. @ncfrontiersman: So hope y'all have a good one. And if you want to hop in the chat, and you're not part of the chat, it's an X group chat. @ncfrontiersman: Just message me, Fred, call Construct, any of the people in here that are in, and we'll add you. And that's how we stay in touch throughout the week. @ncfrontiersman: Make sure to follow everybody. And yeah, have a good one. @NixFred: Thanks, Wes. You're amazing, brother. Thanks, Call to Connect. @ncfrontiersman: Yeah. Thank you, Fred. Thanks, Call. @ncfrontiersman: Appreciate it. @calledtocnstrct: Awesome space. Awesome group. @ncfrontiersman: All right. See y'all. # EP 07: Sunday Builders Club: The One Where the Next Corner Is 15 Minutes Away Part of "Omarchy! Omarchy! Omarchy!", the weekly Omarchy X Space. Every Sunday, 3pm EST, live on X. - Recorded: Sunday, October 25, 2026, 3pm EST - Length: 102 minutes - Film (Sunday Builders Club, 4 min): https://omarchyspaces.com/films/ep07.mp4 - Speakers: 11+ - Tuned in: 129 - Hosts: @NixFred, @calledtocnstrct - Listen: https://x.com/i/spaces/1OxwbnXgpaEJB - Post on X: https://x.com/NixFred - Web: https://omarchyspaces.com/ep/07/ ## Summary (as posted on X by @NixFred) Sunday Builders Club, Episode 7: "The one where the next corner is 15 minutes away." Recorded Sunday, October 25, 2026. An hour and 42 minutes, 129 tuned in, 9 people came up to speak, and every one of them was building something. Listen: https://x.com/i/spaces/1OxwbnXgpaEJB Full write-up and the complete transcript: https://omarchyspaces.com/ep/07/ @calledtocnstrct Joe, show manager and co-host, and me @nixfred, co-host. Wes @ncfrontiersman was traveling this week, so Joe and I ran it together, splitting the interviews down the middle. Joe and I are the hosts but YOU are the star!!! In the order they spoke: Lee, Zach, DevSec, Heath, Compiling Things, Portia, Dan, Steve and John. Joe ran the speaker queue and kept everybody in the order they raised their hand. Thank you, brother! THE WEEK IN OMARCHY First thing I did was misname the Space. It said Nix's Space. This is not Nix's Space, this is the Builders Club. That is what you get when you do not have Wes. Fixed it live. Then the news, because you people do not sleep. Compiling Things put his wife on Omarchy this week, and DHH replied and asked for a list of everything she found annoying. Joe's take: you cannot get a human on a customer service line anymore, and here is DHH, and Ryan too, right there on the front lines on X taking feedback from the user of the user. @devsec_ai put out Uber TV 0.4, now with a DVR. I have been recording a lot of Rick and Morty, do not tell anybody. Omarchy is booting on the NVIDIA Shield as Omarchy TV Beta and DHH posted it. Omarchy 4.5 RC1 is out, the very first feature release since Quattro, with 50-plus languages. I put it on my laptop with a 45-inch monitor, and the thing that jumped out was floating spaces that dock. I am not sold. Joe sees it as an on-ramp. Once the keybindings clicked for him, he stopped reaching for the mouse to hunt for the little arrow and drag and resize, and it freed up his ability to think. He does not think that is all AI. There is something special in how Omarchy is put together, and keeping drag and drop around lets newcomers make the jump slowly. The agent panel went from 9 to 23 agents in one press of the Enter button. DHH said "just put an Omabot on it," and half an hour later Omabots were posting in CI about unintended encrypted installs that same morning. Omarchy QA now runs against the nightly every single day, and right behind that DHH posted about the hours spent manually testing and verifying releases in the first year. Joe has been raiding his junk drawer. He reverse-engineered a Tobii eye tracker that was locked to approved games, and now he is eyeing his Chromebook Slate. LARRY GOT A BOSS Last week Larry moved into Grok Bot. This week Anthropic shipped Claude Code connectors, so Grok Bot now manages Claude Code for me. Grok Bot is my connector to Gmail, calendar and 40-something other connectors. When I start a project I make a new bot, tell it to go to my machine, into Herder, through the Claude Code connector, and I tell it: you are not coding this, Larry is. Larry has 10 months of my settings, and Grok Bot types into the session like a third party. Best of both worlds. Joe is doing the same thing with his mouth. He sat at lunch in Grok Bot voice mode with his eyes closed and talked through what he wanted his team to build. Grok Bot files and manages the issues on his GitLab server, and a Grok build team runs in a loop that checks what is ready, pulls it in and spins off sub-agents. He just imagines it and discusses it. WHERE DOES IT GO FROM HERE? That was the question for the room. Joe called it fog of war, minus the war. It is a period of extreme potential and bloom, and the haze keeps getting closer. My take: when software took six months, you announced it and had six months to think about what came next. Now somebody tweets at 8 AM that they will ship a CRM tonight and it is out by 9:30. You cannot see beyond the next corner because the next corner is 15 minutes away. @NotJustShaking Lee is my boy, and he showed up with six things. Part one of his Omarchy and Waveshare article is on his Substack, link in his bio, and part two is underway. It is about making it easier for people with disabilities and cognitive issues to control the Omarchy desktop from what is in essence an iPad. Basti invited him onto his podcast, they recorded an hour yesterday on Lee's switch to Omarchy, and it comes out in two weeks. He is building the Wired Differently vault for Omarchy for Different Minds, an Obsidian vault that Claude or Codex builds for you through a set of questions, and he is testing it on an old iMac he put Omarchy on, with a Chromebook and an old ThinkPad next. Grok Bot has access to his vault step by step, and Grok and his ChatGPT assistant talk to each other through Markdown files so they do not double up. Please follow Lee and subscribe to his Substack. Give him a little more voice. @ZryMiller Zach has spent two months on Sotto, his own agent development environment, and its Watcher feature. The problem: a thread hits a question buried in its reasoning summary and sits idle for hours. Watcher hooks into your subscriptions, puts a model on watch over your threads, brings Zach only the questions and permissions, and keeps everything else moving. Its biggest job is a CI queue for PR merges so agents stop stepping on each other. It keeps a notepad outside compaction and checks in on any thread idle for 20 minutes. Next is orchestrating across machines over Tailscale, handing a thread to another box when the CPU loads up or a test needs linux. It runs on Windows, macOS and Omarchy, has an iOS app and dictation built in, and it is fully open source, link in his bio. I asked if the frontier labs will just ship this. Maybe a month, maybe six, but he does not want his work running on someone else's cloud computer. @devsec_ai Martin called in from a car. We are in the early stages, resetting the foundation the way the 90s internet and Web 2.0 did, and this is a new stack. The frontier labs will integrate a lot, but what they ship are defaults, and defaults always need customization. That should empower you. Security is the key, and expect friction: walled gardens and terms of service fights, like eBay banning sellers for stupid reasons in the early e-commerce days. He also had his agent flag omarchystore.com as a possible scam. My update: they shut the store down, said "we heard you," are removing anything with elevated permissions and are reviewing every listing. Give them grace. Then the Shield. A 2017 NVIDIA Shield, Tegra X1, 48 hours of 16 to 18 hour days, writing drivers for sound, GPU acceleration and thermal management. Agents did a lot of it, but hardware means plugging and unplugging. Next up is a Surface Pro 4 with the touchscreen working and a desktop mode and tablet mode that switch when you dock and undock. DHH is eager to see it. @MuchmoreIT I have known Heath 20 years. He did mission planning for the F-117 stealth fighter on Cray supercomputers. Today he is working with a 2.8 trillion parameter model, 105 billion active, that needs 72 GPUs for a single instance. I asked if I can run it on my 5070. Once it is quantized, maybe. His advice: GPU memory matters most, but you do not need the newest card, because models keep getting squished. Download LM Studio and start pushing models. He has an engine waiting on legal clearance, and he wants to bring the manager of managers down to size: one Omarchy box coordinating Azure, AWS, GCP, Oracle and your local server. He says his company is the only one authorized to install Google TPUs on premises. I told him I have a Best Buy credit card. That will buy me a couple minutes on the TPU. He has more ideas than time, so reach out and he will throw you one. @Compilethings Joe asked how he sees the road ahead. He sticks to his system and lets the noise settle. His system is an orchestrator of orchestrators in Claude Code: seven sessions, session one hands out the work and holds the context, and compact, startup and shutdown skills keep it all alive. It ran for a week while he was in Poland and he checked it twice a day over remote desktop. They do not stop. A GitHub release with a one-click test and an article is coming within about two days, and he wants Zach to pick it apart. He prefers criticism. He runs an all-AMD rig of R9700s for local inference, and his wife uses it for legal work she wants off the internet. Omarchy lives on his T480. He plays on both sides, open and closed. "I see open source video games as good as the main publishers. We can adapt like humans do." @letsbuildanyway Portia talks to a lot of people who are not developers, and she wants to know which of this tech someone who does not like to tinker will actually adopt, and what stays a hobby. Her bet: the biggest technology is UX and how workflows change, and the hardest part is how corporations are structured. Her latest video is on local models, downloading one with Hermes and finding out what her hardware can really do. She also said we underestimate how many people want someone to tell them what to do, and that freedom can feel like a threat. Joe tabled that one for a future call. Portia, you are one of the teammates. @dsegan Dan has been in tech since the late 90s, Sun Solaris, HP-UX, early Slackware. He came to Omarchy before Quattro to build a hacker workstation in his basement workshop next to a Commodore 64. He is building a Lucasfilm-style adventure game about his friends' punk comedy band. His day job is at a hyperscaler that also sells an office suite, where enterprise AI adoption is the Wild West, and software development was never the hard part. He handed Grok Bot an API key to his UniFi setup and it fixed his radios, the UPnP broadcasts and the printer chatter. Network retries went to zero. On the way to buy a NAS he talked to it from his car and had it SSH in and get everything ready. "It felt really Star Trek." He runs a Cleveland-area Omarchy meetup in Beachwood, Ohio, the last Thursday of the month, which is this Thursday. He was the only one at the first one. Go! @_fromahuman_ Steve spent 25 years in tech, Microsoft and servers, and in 2018 he and his wife packed up the two kids, bought an RV and traveled Europe, Bali and Mexico. Then they bought land and lived in a tent for about a year to learn the water and the sun, gardened before they built anything, and now have a cabin, a proper solar setup and a house under construction. He has been learning linux since 2018 and his kids are on linux laptops. Somebody mentioned Omarchy a third time, he dual-booted it, and two or three months later it is on every laptop he owns. Updating each machine in person got painful, so he is building a client and server CLI, a fleet manager for Omarchy: list your machines and their skills, copy skills between them, update them remotely, and secure it all with per-machine tokens that can be read-only or admin. PXE boot is next. He uses a different agent per project so context does not get contaminated, and keeps coming back to Hermes for its bridge mode across machines. @drxiaozhi John is building something unconventional: a whole JavaScript stack with Bun as PID 1, so the same source runs on Windows, Android and linux without a binary for every system. This week he is rewriting QuickShell in JavaScript and getting as many Omarchy apps running on it as he can. And yes, JavaScript, not Java. Joe closed it out. He gave DHH credit for the leadership through all of this, and said he never realized how locked down the computing world was, and here he is writing software. Then he quoted DHH: "I don't want another business that serves customers." Build something because it is fun, because it helps somebody, because it builds a community. If you are not feeling connected in this community yet, DM him. My last word: everybody here is here to learn. No judgment, no egos. Heath works on 100,000 GPUs and he is about as humble as they come. Every one of you is the star. ASKS ON THE TABLE Follow everybody in the room and boost each other. I followed everyone I could find and X rate limited me. Follow Lee and subscribe to his Substack. Try Sotto, Zach's open source ADE. The link is in his bio. When Compiling Things drops his orchestrator on GitHub, run the one-click test and tell him what is wrong with it. He prefers criticism. Heath has more ideas than time. Reach out and he will throw you one. Cleveland area? Dan's Omarchy meetup is in Beachwood, Ohio, the last Thursday of the month. That is this Thursday. Not feeling connected yet? DM @calledtocnstrct and get connected. QUESTIONS STILL OPEN Q1. Where does it go from here? When the next corner is 15 minutes away, how do you plan past it? Q2. Portia's question: which of this will regular people actually use, and which stays a hobby for tinkerers? NEXT SUNDAY Same time, 3PM EST on X Spaces, and Wes is back! @Chronara_ai got dropped before their turn, so come back! If you did not get to speak today, we are sorry, please come back! And remember! Help an old lady across the street, and when you get her over there, put Omarchy on her laptop. Your only limitation now is not putting it in a prompt. /Nix and Larry ## Transcript Machine generated. Speaker labels come from the transcription tool and are reused for different people; the summary says who is who. @NixFred: Fred, everyone, how's it going? @calledtocnstrct: Hey, hey, hey. I think it's time. We're getting close. @calledtocnstrct: How you doing, Claude? @calledtocnstrct: It's a beautiful day. Just getting the, uh, sound set up here. @calledtocnstrct: Can you hear me all right? @NixFred: I hear you great. What about me? @calledtocnstrct: Yeah, likewise. Sounding good? @NixFred: Uh, you sound fan- fantastic. Don't need to turn it up. @calledtocnstrct: Audio's good for me. Uh, I can hear you loud and clear. @NixFred: All right. Well, uh, fantastic. I think we've got one more week. @NixFred: Let's, uh... we've got some people requesting to speak. If you're out there, I see a lee. @NixFred: Um, that's what Claude is here to help us with. And, uh, he will... he will, uh, set the stage for us. @NixFred: So, uh, just stand by, Lee. Can't wait to talk to you, man. @NixFred: It's been a minute. I apologize for missing our meeting this week, man. @NixFred: I've been cooking. @calledtocnstrct: It's been a busy we- week, hasn't it? @NixFred: It really has. It's impossible to keep up with all the news. @NixFred: All right. Well, let's get this thing started, Claude. @NixFred: What do you think? @calledtocnstrct: Yeah, I think so. Especially... @NixFred: Or do we... or do we wait a minute? Let's... let's give it a second. I'm a little early, and there's... let's let a couple of folks build in here. @NixFred: Maybe one minute? With your approval? @calledtocnstrct: Yeah, that'll work. @NixFred: All right. @NixFred: Wow, that's, um... you're right. We got RC1s out. @NixFred: We got, uh, people are putting it on PS5s, shields, TVs, iPads. Did I miss anything? @NixFred: Arm laptops? @calledtocnstrct: Yeah. It's, um, the... the variety is crazy. Uh, I'm... I think I'm creating a little bit of an echo, though. @NixFred: All right. Well, let's make... let's see if it's me. @calledtocnstrct: Yeah. I just, um, it was hard to keep up with all the news. Um, you know, not just the... the... the new, uh, machines. @calledtocnstrct: I mean, they're looking at Android, uh, you know, tablets and... and phones, and it's just... just incredible. @NixFred: Crazy. @NixFred: All right, brother. Let's get it rolling. @NixFred: All right. Welcome, welcome, welcome to the Omarchy X Spaces called Omarchy Sunday Builders Club. @NixFred: It was started by Wes, and, uh, he is traveling this week, folks. So, uh, all you're going to get is me and, and, uh, called to... I... I... I want to call you CTC, but that's what I call Cinnamon Toast Crunch. @NixFred: So I don't know if you... @calledtocnstrct: Yeah, you could also call me Joe. Uh, Joe works so fine as well. @NixFred: I wouldn't... I wouldn't going to call you out because I didn't... some people hide their identity. I didn't know if you were Superman. @calledtocnstrct: No. I wish, but, uh, no, that's good. Uh, and called to construct. @calledtocnstrct: That's what I've used for... for decades, so. @NixFred: Where'd that come from? @calledtocnstrct: Uh, just I... I love to build things. And I looked around at everything I was doing, and, you know, whether it was like team building at work, or, you know, building software, or build... I used to be part of a... a Lego club, and, you know, adults, uh, would get together and build big buildings and train layouts. So everything was about building, constructing. @calledtocnstrct: That's where it came from. @NixFred: Uh, now I understand your love for Omarchy. @calledtocnstrct: That's right. Exactly. @NixFred: Yeah. All right, folks. So welcome. @NixFred: Episode 7, Sunday Builders Club. Please follow @SundayBuildClub. @NixFred: I'm Nix, Nix Fred on X. Wes is out traveling this week, and Claude can... or Joe and I... I don't know how I'm going to... where I'm going to land on that. @NixFred: Joe and I are, uh, running the show today, so raise your hand, and he's going to get you set up on the stage. We got one less host talking, which means more mic time for you guys. @NixFred: So let's talk about what's happened this week. Last week, Compilethings was here talking about datasets, and on Tuesday, he put his wife on Omarchy. @NixFred: I then later saw that DHH replied, "Man, is he involved?" And he's asked for a list of everything that she found annoying, which I think is cool. @NixFred: Like, Joe, when is the last time a software manufacturer reached down to a user? And not... not only reached down to a user, but reached down to get the user of the user's opinion. @calledtocnstrct: Right. Right. I mean, you know, how can you even get a hold of, uh, customer service anymore? @calledtocnstrct: It's always, you know, it's a bot or something. And... and unless, uh, DHH is tricking us somehow. @calledtocnstrct: Man, he is, uh, right there on the front lines. Ryan's on the front lines, uh, posting on... on X, you know, getting feedback. @calledtocnstrct: It's just incredible. @NixFred: That's right. That's right. And let's see here. @NixFred: Uh, Omarchy, for the rest of us, shipped her first contribution to Omarchy. I saw that. @NixFred: @devsec_ai put out Uber TV 0.4, now with a DVR, which is... I've been recording a lot of Rick and Morty, but don't tell anybody. Uh, let's see what else we got. Then, uh, Omarchy is now booting on the NVIDIA Shield. @NixFred: So you people do not sleep. This is insanity. @NixFred: Like, Joe, for real, what... I think Omarchy is on our second month? Tenth... tenth week, maybe? @NixFred: And... @calledtocnstrct: I know. @NixFred: Legit... legitimately, put this in perspective of, like, 2022 and all the advancements we've made. I mean, are we not sitting on, like, I don't know, five years of advancement? Like, in a 2022 span of technology advancements, which is just, what, three, four years ago, the time it would take to get all that done would have been, I don't know, several... and what I mean by that is, like, not getting it done, but just, like, every single day. @NixFred: I mean, I know a lot of you out there do too, but I'm... I'm working on this, uh, feverishly, and I can't stop, and I almost, like, wonder if I got a problem. But I... I know that I spend 10 hours a day, 7 days a week on this stuff, and I feel like I am completely behind, and I have no idea what's going on. @NixFred: What... what about you guys? What about... what about you, Joe? @calledtocnstrct: Yeah. I mean, it's... it's... it's, uh, every time I talk to somebody and I start telling them about Omarchy, and I'm thinking, you know, and... and the AI integration and everything going on. Like, you know, some of the projects I'm seeing, I... I have to stop and think, like, how long... how long has this been? @calledtocnstrct: Has it been, like, two years yet? Because it feels like that much innovation. @calledtocnstrct: And then I'm like, five weeks. You know? @calledtocnstrct: I was talking to a guy, and he said, you know, he picked up Omarchy, like, uh, uh, you know, three weeks ago or four weeks ago, and he started writing code, you know? And it... it's really jarring to think of that because software development has notoriously taken a long time just understanding what you want, then figuring out how to... how to make it happen, how to deploy it, all that. @calledtocnstrct: And it is just, uh, light speed right now. @NixFred: It really is. I mean... I mean, is that AI? Like, I've been watching... you know what I just noticed? @NixFred: I didn't name the, uh... I didn't name the space correctly. Should we, uh, should we restart it and name the space? @NixFred: Because this is not Nix's space. This is the Builders Club. @NixFred: Crap. I'm a moron. @NixFred: That's what you get when you don't have Wes. Let me see if I can edit it. @calledtocnstrct: I... I didn't even notice. @NixFred: Yeah. Okay, cool. I can edit it. @NixFred: Sunday... pay no attention to the idiot on the keyboard, folks. Builders Club. @NixFred: Such a rookie. All right. @NixFred: Cool. All right. @NixFred: So thanks for joining. Sorry about that. @NixFred: Um, that's literally what happens when Rus... when Wes is not here to keep us tight. So let's move on. @NixFred: So Omarchy 4.5 RC1 came out. Um, it's the very first feature release since Quatro. @NixFred: It's got... I think it's got 50-plus languages. And the coolest thing... I put RC1 on my laptop with a big 45-inch monitor, and the coolest thing that I saw... I don't know if you've run it yet... yet, uh, Joe, but the floating spaces that dock? @NixFred: Eh. I don't... you know, I got... one of the things when I go back to my Mac is that I spend 15% of my time organizing Windows, and... and I don't know how I feel about the floating spaces. @NixFred: What do you... I think it's an attempt to bring in the newcomers. What do you think, Joe? @calledtocnstrct: I think that's exactly it. Um, you know, I... one of the things that really appealed to me after I got used to Omarchy... uh, Omarchy, so, you know, like, uh, two, three weeks in, and I started to... the... the key bindings started to click for me, and I could go into the config files and... and tweak things a little bit. Um, I... I realized how much time I wasn't spending moving over, grabbing the mouse, you know, trying to figure out where this little arrow is, you know, @calledtocnstrct: and then... and then pinpointing exactly where I wanted to click and drag and resize Windows. And it just freed me up. My... uh, freed up my... my ability to think so I could focus on really what I wanted to do. @calledtocnstrct: So there's definitely a part of that. You asked, you know, is this all AI agency? @calledtocnstrct: And I don't think it is. I think there's something special. @calledtocnstrct: Uh, and it's not just Hyperland, but it's the combination of how things were put together. And, you know, I really think that we're going to start to see this, uh, innovate across the industry, across Linux open source. @calledtocnstrct: We're going to start to see some of this... these productivity gains incorporated into other spaces. And... and I think, you know, the... the maintainers are doing the right thing by making the... the option to transition slowly over to the high productivity of... of the, you know, key bindings and the Hyper... Hyperland and all that, um, by having the... the, you know, kind of drag and drop still be available. @NixFred: That's right. That's right. Let's see here. @NixFred: So what... did you hear about the NVIDIA Shield TV coming up? Uh, DevSecAI, I don't know if he's on. @NixFred: I hope he is. Maybe he can talk about it. @NixFred: Got, um, Omarchy running on... or maybe it was, uh, an Omarchy plugin, I'm not sure, on the Omarchy Shield. Um, his... his, uh, GitHub account is, uh, let's see, Marcho, M-A-R-C-H-O, 78, with Omarchy Shield. @NixFred: He said it was pretty challenging. And then, uh, DHH tweeted it out and said, "Omarchy on the NVIDIA... on the NVIDIA Shield." @NixFred: Um, so it's not a port launcher, from what I can tell. He shipped it as, uh, the Omarchy TV Beta, which is a kind of an Omarchy-style launcher for Android TV. @NixFred: And that just hearkens back again to all of the, uh, you know, we were talking before about all the devices that people are putting it on now. We've got... I don't know about you, but I... I've started going through my box, and I'm kind of jonesing for the next big thing I can work on. @NixFred: I... I don't know if you guys are feeling that too. One of the things I'm kind of running out of is ideas. @NixFred: Maybe it's just me, or maybe I'm burned out, but I started going through my junk... junk drawer and looking for, okay, can I hook to this? Does this have a way to come in, you know, to get into it? @NixFred: Have... have you reversed anything yet? @calledtocnstrct: Well, I... I did reverse, uh, the, uh, Eye Tracker, the Toby, you know, it's kind of like a gaming device, and it was locked down to just the... the games that, you know, were approved for it. And I was ab... you know, well, my agent was able to... to reverse engineer it. And that was my... my first, uh, attempt at hardware. @calledtocnstrct: And then I got to thinking, like, I've got this, uh, Chromebook, um, uh, tablet, the Chro... uh, Chromebook Slate, and it's a great machine. It's an i... i7, you know, quite a bit of, uh, RAM and disk space. @calledtocnstrct: And so I was like, huh, I wonder if anybody's started on this. And sure enough, like, people were chiming in, "Hey, so-and-so's working on this. @calledtocnstrct: Like, you need to connect with them." And so, you know, somebody's ahead, but, uh, it gives me hope that, uh, that I can then, you know, kind of resurrect that thing and... and start using it again because it's been kind of locked down in... in Chromebook space, and I just can't do the things that I want to do with it. @calledtocnstrct: And... and so, I mean, it's an incredible time, uh, to be looking at hardware, looking at software in a completely different way. @NixFred: It really is. Uh, I... I saw yesterday DHH merged PR 14.0 for something? 4.0? @NixFred: And so the agent panel went from 6 to get this to 23 collectors now. 23. @NixFred: I mean, there's... @calledtocnstrct: Wow. @NixFred: OpenScope, Cloud Armies, Ollama, OpenRouter... I'm trying to think of the more obscure ones. DeepSeek, Devin. So from 9 to 23 in... in one press of the Enter button. @NixFred: So all the agents are getting... are getting my shims now, so they find the tools after the launch, and they can literally just come up on it. So he said, "Just put an Oma... Oma bot on it." @NixFred: Say that word. So half an hour later, we get Oma bots posting information in CIs for unintended encrypted installs that same freaking morning. @NixFred: I mean, like, this is insane. @calledtocnstrct: Wow. You know, and there... @NixFred: And... go ahead. @calledtocnstrct: I was just going to say that's kind of been a... a secondary passion of mine is, um, you know, having the ability to... to... to go to a company and say, "Look, you know, you could get a lot more productivity across your entire organization with, uh, Omarchy, you know? Um, here... here's all of these features that it provides." And one of the... you know, one of the key things is, like, automated installs or, you know, just, uh, you know, being able to kind of lock things down @calledtocnstrct: so that you don't have, you know, vulnerabilities and security concerns. And look at this. I mean, it's just popping up left and right. @NixFred: Insane. Insane. So then the Permagen posted, uh, a couple... maybe even yesterday... that his Omarchy Q&A now will run against the nightly every single day. @NixFred: And then right behind that, DHH posted, and it's kind of funny. He says, "You wouldn't believe the hours he spent manually testing and verifying Omarchy releases during the first year." @NixFred: So you talk about human improvement and automating things. You know, we're... we're in a... and I talked to my friend Heath. @NixFred: I think Heath is on here. I saw his name. @NixFred: He... Heath works on, like, legitimate large enterprise, 100,000 GPU systems. And, you know, we've... when I first started using Claude Code, it was kind of important to me to kind of watch it as it went by and go, "Wait a minute. @NixFred: I don't know if I want you doing that." And I don't know if it's... the output's gotten to be too much or if it's gotten better, but this past week, I actually moved to let GrokBot manage my Claude Code through Claude Code connectors. @NixFred: And Claude Code connectors is a new feature that, you know, they're releasing features every 15 minutes now. So if you're using GrokBot or any other type of, uh, bot management system, you can now have it manage Claude Code through their Claude Code connector. @NixFred: So how that works for me now is... is every... I think folks know about Larry. Um, Larry's my AI that I've been working on since January 8th of this year. @NixFred: And it was really hard for me to grow GrokBot, and I really was... I was really... I was really liking GrokBot. Not... I don't use GrokBot to, like, say, make applications as much, and I know that a few of you do, and I think it does it pretty well. @NixFred: GrokBot, for me, is more of my connector. Like, it knows my Gmail, it knows my calendar, and I... I literally think I have 40-something connectors, which might be a problem, uh, but here we are. @NixFred: So, you know, I was going back and forth between GrokBot and going over to Claude Code and Herder. And, you know, I've got a project for each one of my little projects so that I don't have to remember what directory it's in. @NixFred: Because typically, when I have an idea, I just create the directory and start working on it, and then it becomes a name, and then I can't change the name of that directory. So Herder, for me, is very nice that I can rename that project, and I don't have to remember what directory it is. @NixFred: So I was switching back and forth between GrokBot and Claude Code with Larry, and I read through the updates over at Anthropic that they now had the Claude Code connector. And so now what I'm able to do is I create... once I've kind of got a project established with Larry, once I have that established, I go into GrokBot and I make a new bot, and I tell it, "You're going to be my counsel," or we're going to kind of bounce the ideas off each other. @NixFred: I want you to go over to my machine, Gus, and go into Herder, and go into the project called whatever it is that I'm working on, and use the Claude Code connector to connect to that. So what that does now is I can go into GrokBot and have conversations about what I want, and then I tell GrokBot, "You're not coding this. @NixFred: Larry is." And why would I do that? @NixFred: Because Larry... I've been writing stuff with Larry for almost 10... over 10 months, and he... he understands my... my wants, my... the settings that I like, and I don't have to tell him, and I don't want to retrain Grok. But Grok's really good about talking to me about it. @NixFred: So Grok knows that I... we discuss things, and then when it's time to send it to Larry, he... I can go over into Herder and look at that project, and he liter... GrokBot managing that project literally goes into that Herder session, and he's like the third party, and I see him typing, and he literally just cuts and pastes in there, and it's beautiful. And it's kind of the best of both worlds. @NixFred: Are you doing anything like that? @calledtocnstrct: Well, interesting that... that you said that, because, um, what I just realized, like, two days ago, is that the GrokBot, when you're in the app, not the integrated, uh, into X, um, which is another thing that we should probably, uh, chat for just a second on, but, uh, when you're in the... the GrokBot app, you can then use the voice integration. And so the other day at lunch, uh, I just needed my eyes to rest. I put the phone on the table, uh, activated the... the voice @calledtocnstrct: mode, and started talking, uh, through voice, and just could close my eyes and actually visualize what I wanted my team to build. Now, I'm not going directly to the... to the, uh, let's say, AI team, but, um, what I did was I... I, uh, connected GrokBot to my GitLab server and had it create issues and manage the issue state and make sure that the team is... is, you know, properly moving the tickets and things like that. And then I have my, uh, Grok build team set up @calledtocnstrct: with a... a kind of like an infinite loop where it just checks what's ready, pull it in, spin off some subagents. And the... the freedom that that has given me has been incredible. So now I can actually just imagine what I want, discuss it, uh, through voice with GrokBot, and then GrokBot says, "Oh, do you want me to open some... some, uh, issues for that?" @calledtocnstrct: I'm like, "Yes, I do. Thank you very much." @calledtocnstrct: And it's been. @NixFred: That's my... I don't like that. Now, if I... if I told you you would be doing the things that you're doing today, say, three years ago, would... I mean, that would be like, like Spaceman crazy lane. Am I right? @calledtocnstrct: Exactly. @NixFred: I mean... @calledtocnstrct: Exactly. @NixFred: And... and you know what? My mentor told me the other day. He goes, "Humans have this thing where we think we've arrived and it's over, and we've kind of done what we're doing, and we... we look at our progress and we go, 'Great, we... we're here.' @NixFred: And... and we have a hard time as humans to go, 'Okay, this isn't it. It continues.' @NixFred: Because we're so... you know, all of us as humans are... are... we only have the perspective of our own, uh, eyes and the people that we are." So we all know that it's going to get better, but I... I... I honestly, I can't... I can't think of, like, what the hell is... is next. @NixFred: I mean, legitimately. I mean, I remember, you know, I'm... I'm slowly letting go of the Claude Code have to read everything. @NixFred: And when I say read everything, it means, like, watch it go by. And... and where does it go from here? @NixFred: So that's my challenge and my question that we want to ask everybody that we talk to. Where does it go from here? @NixFred: So what do you think, Joe? @calledtocnstrct: Yeah. I think that's... I mean, that's an excellent question. And it's kind of, you know, there's this concept in... in gaming, you know, that you say kind of fog of war. @calledtocnstrct: Um, it's not a war. We're in... we're in a period of extreme, uh, potential and... and bloom, you know, as... as we've been talking about. @calledtocnstrct: But there is that kind of haziness, like, and the haziness is getting closer where, you know, where our vision, our clarity of vision used to be further out, potentially, and we might get it wrong at times. @NixFred: Right. @calledtocnstrct: But now it's... it's gotten closer. And so, yeah, I'm... I'm super excited to hear what people have, uh, on... on their mind with regards to that. @NixFred: I just kind of had an epiphany about the clarity of mind of the future and how it's getting harder, and I think I understand a little bit. And this is my take, and this is 15 seconds old in my mind. So when things took six months to accomplish, you had to... you had to announce what you're doing. @NixFred: Here's what we're going to work on. It's going to take us six months. @NixFred: We're going to really work hard on it. And so you had six months' time to think about what that means. @NixFred: And today, somebody can literally tweet at 8:00 AM, "I think I'm going to ship, uh, a CRM system tonight." And then they actually ship it by 9:30 AM. @NixFred: So, you know, the... the execution of ideas is so quick that you really can't see what's beyond the next corner because the next corner is 15 minutes away. @calledtocnstrct: Yeah. Yeah. It... it really is, um, you know, hyperspeed. @NixFred: It really is. @calledtocnstrct: So we've... we've got... @NixFred: All right. Let's get Lee in here, and let's have a chat with Lee. Lee is my boy. @NixFred: I've... I've been talking to him off and on on Zoom, and he is, uh, doing some amazing things with, um, Omarchy Different Minds. Lee, what's going on today, man? @NotJustShaking: Hey, everybody. Good to see everyone. Um, just a quick update from me. @NotJustShaking: I've got six points, so I'm going to rattle through them because we've got a lot of people in here. So, um, just want to cover a few things that I've worked on, finished, still going. @NixFred: All right. @NotJustShaking: Um, so the first one was the stuff that I was doing with, um, Omarchy and the Waveshare device. Part one of my article is complete, and that is available on my Substack. And if anyone wants to know where that is, you can just click in my... my bio, and it's in there. @NotJustShaking: So that's done. Part two is underway. @NotJustShaking: So that's all about, um, making it easier for people with disabilities, cognitive issues, to control the Omarchy desktop from, um, what is, in essence, a, um, an iPad type of device. So part one done. @NixFred: Great. @NotJustShaking: Part two underway. Um. @NixFred: Very cool. @NotJustShaking: I was, uh, lucky enough, or, um, yeah, that's... that's the word, to be invited by Basti. I think everybody knows Basti, uh, for, uh, uh, to record a podcast with him. I did that yesterday. @NotJustShaking: I was nervous as hell for, you know, the obvious reasons. Ended up really enjoying it. @NotJustShaking: We spoke for an hour. That was really cool. @NotJustShaking: So that's going to come out in two weeks, where I was able to let him know, um, you know, my journey in terms of, um, switching over to Omarchy. @NixFred: Sure. @NotJustShaking: Um, working on different minds with you, Fred, and... and, uh, and a ton more. Um, I'm working on the, uh, the what I call the Wired Differently Volt OS, which is going to be built into Omarchy for different minds. And that's basically an obsidian vault that will, via, um, a number of questions given to you by whichever AI you want to use, um, Claude or Codex, will build the vault, um, for you, um, to take away the pain, uh, the frustration, um, away from doing that yourself. @NotJustShaking: Because it can be overwhelming, especially for people with cognitive issues. So I am testing that. @NotJustShaking: I'm testing that on my Mac that I put Omarchy on very recently. Uh, it's an old iMac. @NotJustShaking: Um, I, um, I'm going to be installing Omarchy on my Chromebook that I thought I didn't have, and I have an old ThinkPad from when I first started work in the US, like, 15 years ago. I'm going to be putting Omarchy on those two devices, so then I will have four devices with Omarchy on and use them for something or other. @NotJustShaking: Not really sure. And then in terms of GrokBox, I gave that access to my vault, and that's working out really well, step by step. @NotJustShaking: Uh, the my vault, my obsidian vault is my life. So I don't want to give it, you know, access to do everything, but the way in which that is able to interact with it is great. @NotJustShaking: And... and using Markdown files, I'm able to get Grok and DOTS within, um, ChatGPT to talk to each other. So they... so whilst there is no way of doing that, you know, um, through some kind of connection, they just read Markdown files, each of them, so they each know what each of them is working on, so they don't, um, double up the work. @NotJustShaking: And then they can share with me if they have, uh, uh, any... any problems. Um, and I also set up DOTS to text me when anyone mentions me in, uh, in the next post, because I'm terrible at, uh, at... at kind of identifying when someone has emailed me or sent me a message. @NotJustShaking: So, um, uh, it also does that. It's also, um, I also taught how to fill out my, uh, um, you know, the... the... the your pre-check-in for your doctors as well. @NixFred: Yeah. @NotJustShaking: So that was quite cute. But that's me. That's what I've done this week. @NixFred: All right, man. Well, I appreciate you, and thanks for joining us. Would everybody please do... do me a favor personally, and... and follow Lee, and if you find it in your heart, to, uh, subscribe to his Substack, give him a little bit more voice. @NixFred: And if you really find it in your heart, sign up as a subscriber. And Lee, you're a champ. @NixFred: We love you, and, uh, hope to hear from you this week. And, uh, want to Zoom with you again this week sometime. @NixFred: I was the problem this week. Sorry about that. @NotJustShaking: No problem. @NixFred: All right. Who we got next? @calledtocnstrct: Well, uh, the next up just dropped off. I'm not sure if that was a connection, uh, issue or not. So I'm shuffling things around a little bit. @calledtocnstrct: If, uh, uh, Coronara, if you want to join back as a speaker, uh, you can jump right up and speak. I'll give it a few seconds, and then we will move to the next. @NixFred: All right. Here we got. Let's see. @NixFred: Are we having the. @calledtocnstrct: All right. @NixFred: Are we having the approved speaker problems? @calledtocnstrct: I... no, actually, they... they were able to join, but then, uh, it must have been a connection issue and dropped off. @NixFred: All right. @calledtocnstrct: So. @NixFred: Well, do you want to... why don't you pick one that you'd like to talk to? I'll take DevSec. @calledtocnstrct: Yeah. @NixFred: Lee, you go ne... you go next. @calledtocnstrct: Yeah. So, Zack, um, why don't we... why don't we, uh, have a little chat? I, um, I don't think that I was following you before, which is actually an excellent, um, opportunity for me to say, everybody in the room, look around, find people that you're not currently following, and give them a follow. @calledtocnstrct: Because, uh, this is a community, and we're building... building things together, and we're sharing ideas. Uh, so, Zack, um, you're on stage. @calledtocnstrct: Hopefully, you're able to hear, and everything's connected okay. Uh, what you got going on? @calledtocnstrct: What you building? @ZryMiller: Uh, yeah. So I have been working, I don't know, probably on the past two months on my own, um, agent development environment. And so what Nix was talking about, or Fred, sorry, um. @NixFred: No, it's all good, brother. @ZryMiller: Yeah. What you were talking about, uh, with using GrokBot to essentially interact with Herder, I've been working on a feature in my ADE call. It's called SODO. @ZryMiller: Um, and it's... it's a feature called Watcher. So essentially, um, it kind of does what you mentioned. @ZryMiller: It hooks up to whatever provider subscriptions you have, um, Claude, Codex, Muse, you know, all the major ones, basically. And then you can assign a certain model that watches all of your threads. @ZryMiller: And it... I don't know if you guys have had this problem where, um, you'll have a model working on a thread. It'll encounter a question or an issue. @ZryMiller: Um, it'll have that question kind of buried in its reasoning summary, and then that thread just kind of sits idle for hours without working. Um, so that... that was an issue I was running into a lot. @ZryMiller: So that's kind of why I built Watcher. Essentially keep threads moving. @ZryMiller: Um, so now it kind of just brings permissions and questions to me, and then it manages, um, everything else. Um, and so built an iOS app for it, uh, and finally have it kind of fully functional on all three, uh, major operating systems. @ZryMiller: So it's available on Windows, uh, macOS, and I've optimized it for Omarchy. Um, but yeah, that's. @NixFred: That's all? @ZryMiller: That's kind of what it is. It has dictation built in. Um, and then. @calledtocnstrct: Well, one of the... one of the questions that... that comes to mind, something I've been kind of struggling with, is, you know, are you... are you having this be something that responds to you with that context? Or do you actually have, like, a... a loop where it's... it's going and... and checking every little bit and, and. @ZryMiller: Yeah. So it goes... it goes through any... any thread that you assign it to watch. So you can either manage the thread yourself, or you can assign it to Watcher. @ZryMiller: And so any thread you assign it to watch, it basically, um, it ha... it SODO is acting as a M... MCP server, so it has tools within SODO that it can use. Um, so it can, uh, it sends prompts to the, um, threads. @ZryMiller: It... the biggest thing I've been using it for lately is to organize, um, how I... I've been merging a lot of PRs lately, and CI has been a huge bottleneck for me. Um, I don't... I'm sure others are running into that issue. @ZryMiller: And so I have it. @NixFred: Yeah. @ZryMiller: I was noticing that when I was trying to manage a bunch of threads, I would run into PRs getting merged, and then I constantly had agents stepping on each other because they weren't coordinating between each other. So now Watcher basically just sits there and queues everything for CI, um, based on who's... which thread is in line to merge their PR. So that's been a huge, uh, time saver for me. @ZryMiller: It's... it's... it... it handles all the coordination between threads, um, and it has full control. So really, it just... it brings questions to me that only need my attention, um, or a permissions thing where that could be considered, like, a dangerous, uh, you know, like, remove my entire C drive or something. @NixFred: Yeah. @calledtocnstrct: Um. @NixFred: That makes sense. Well, I... I, you know, kind of in... in that same, uh, thought, uh, one of the things that... that I've been concerned with, and I... and... and my question, my quick question, uh, to you is, you know, are you more concerned about freeing yourself up from, you know, kind of having to be a... a slave to the, you know, screen, or, you know, constantly involving yourself in the... in the minor details? Or are you looking at ways to optimize, uh, your token usage and @NixFred: ... and trying to get out of the, uh, you know, where things are just constantly thrashing? Or is it a combination of both? @ZryMiller: It's a combination of both. I've actually found with Watcher, I get into more of a flow state because it will, you know, I've... if I've handed it, like, say, 10 or so threads that are running in parallel, it is constantly working with those threads. And I can just sit above that and just work with one agent, which has been kind of freeing for me to not have to try to memorize where all of these threads are at. @ZryMiller: And it just gives me questions that I can focus on rather than getting into this super nitty-gritty. I just let the agents handle that. @NixFred: So, so, Zack, on... on that, uh, sorry, sorry, uh, on that, how do you... I've... I've played around with that, and I get concerned that I've got one agent that I'm talking to as the governor of the rest, for lack of a better term. And. @ZryMiller: Yeah. @NixFred: I kind of get... I get concerned that... that... that one agent does, like, kind of loses the, you know, loses the topic and kind of. @ZryMiller: So. @NixFred: What does it do? @ZryMiller: Yeah. So what I have it do is it keeps a notepad outside a compaction. So I've been messing around with when is the optimal time to compact the context, right? @ZryMiller: Because you lose a lot of the details. And so essentially, the way I get around that is I have it keep a notepad of, um, important details, like the last thing it sent to a thread, or... or... or just a quick note of where a... a certain thread is at. @ZryMiller: And so even if it compacts, it's... it... it's forced to reread that notebook on compaction or while it's working, um, to... to make sure it... it keeps up to date with what's going on. It also has timers built in, so it doesn't just forget about a thread. @ZryMiller: So if it hasn't heard from an idle thread in over 20 minutes, it will go check in on it. Um. @NixFred: Mm-hmm. @ZryMiller: And then the other thing I've been working on is allowing it to orchestrate across machines. So in SODO, you can connect remote machines through Tailscale. And then if it notices your machine is loading up on CPU usage, it can hand... it can hand off a thread to... or this is the idea... it can hand a thread off or multiple sub-agents to another machine. @ZryMiller: Or if it notices a test needs to be done on Linux and it's working on Mac or on Windows, it will hand sub-agents... it will tell the parent to orchestrate sub-agents ch... children on another machine. So that... that's kind of what I've been getting into, is having the... the... this Watcher feature basically become the master or manager orchestrator, and then parents are the main orchestrating models that orchestrate other models. @ZryMiller: So it becomes this big tree. @NixFred: Do you think this is something we're fixing that, yet again, is going to be fixed by the frontiers later? Because I... I... I know that a lot of you, like me, have worked on fixing problems that are, you know, with even really early on, like memory and, you know, the different features of Claude code back in the day, and we'd fix it, and then three weeks later, you know, uh, Anthropic comes out with the... that feature to fix that whole problem. Do you think this whole management @NixFred: thing is going to become a... a non-issue? And how... how long out do you think that'll be? @ZryMiller: Um, I have no idea. I mean, I... I... I have seen, like, inklings of, you know, Cursor trying to do this with projects, and, um, Claude code trying to do this with their... but the thing that I find is that I don't want to work on a cloud someone else's cloud computer. And same thing with GrokBot. @ZryMiller: Um, I'd rather work on my own machines and kind of, uh, be able to have my agents work in those. I don't want to have, you know, an outside connector that then has to remote into my machine that then has to run a command. @ZryMiller: I want it all connected within whatever machine I'm working on. And so I don't know how they really fix that problem, but yeah, I... I am sure that, uh, overall orchestrator agents are coming. @ZryMiller: Um, it's just when. Maybe... maybe a month, maybe six months. @ZryMiller: I have no idea. @calledtocnstrct: Yeah. That's great. Um, you know, I, uh, I did shift just a... a second, um, to... to look at the, um, the queue. @calledtocnstrct: So I apologize for not having a... an intelligent, uh, response to that. But, um, I... I think this is, like, you know, probably in... at least in software development, um, and... and, of course, branching out into hardware and things like that with MCP connecting to everything, 3D printers and... and, um, you know, board layout. @calledtocnstrct: But, uh, you know, this is... this is kind of the... the challenge right now. And I... I think, um, Fred, your question is... is perfect, right? @calledtocnstrct: Like, wh... what's the horizon look like for that? So, um. @NixFred: Yeah. And it gets... it's just... it's wrapped in another, you know, where's the... what's the future? And then you can break it down into the little problems that we have. @NixFred: And you... you know, the... we don't know the whole future, and then we see a specific problem. Like, you know, I think it's amazing that Zack is building an orchestrator of orchestrators, maybe? @NixFred: Um. @ZryMiller: It's a manager orchestrator. It's a manager, is how I see it. It just manages everything, so. @NixFred: Right. And at some point, you're going to have a watch that manages that, and then we'll have. @ZryMiller: Yeah. @NixFred: Everything that manages that. So where does it start? Where does it stop? @ZryMiller: Yeah. But yeah, if anyone's interested, it's fully open source. Um, it... the... the link to download it is on my bio. @ZryMiller: It's on GitHub. Um, so that's... that's pretty much... that's it. @ZryMiller: That's what the main app is built around, is Watcher, so. @NixFred: Awesome, bro. @ZryMiller: Thanks. @NixFred: Thank you, brother. @calledtocnstrct: All right. Well, next up, we do have, uh, DevSec. We want to hear all the things you're working on and what is your perspective on this, you know, fog of war. @calledtocnstrct: Like, are we able to actually see what's coming up? @devsec_ai: Yeah. So, um, I was... hey, guys. How are... hope everybody's having a great Sunday. @devsec_ai: I apologize. I'm in a car, so if I have a background noise. @NixFred: Hey, yeah, just. @devsec_ai: Apologies for that, but, um. @NixFred: Just mute... mute when you're not talking, okay? @devsec_ai: Yeah. Yeah, for sure. So... so I think you guys brought up a good point. @devsec_ai: Where do... where do you go from here? There's... I actually... I actually think you are in the for... um, early stages of things. @devsec_ai: So there is a lot of, you know, there is, you know, a lot of headway, right? And we can go historically, and we can take a look at where we were in the early '90s with the internet, and then where we were with the Web 2.0, and then the Web 3.0, the blockchain, and where we are now. @devsec_ai: And this is basically resetting all that foundation. And basically, um, it's a new stack that you are building on top of. @devsec_ai: Um, so having said that, there is a lot to go down in the, um, in... in... there is a lot to build. Um, and I think that there is a lot of tooling that has to be done, a lot of tooling that has to be improved, um, a lot of security work that has to get done. @devsec_ai: And most importantly, new interfaces and user... user experiences have to come up, right? And... and, you know, you guys are... we're all lucky in this... in this journey because we see this with Omarchy right now, because a lot of us are building user interfaces. @devsec_ai: A lot of us are building underlying platforms. A lot of us are building, you know, orchestration layers, etc., etc. @devsec_ai: And we see... we see that where this is going, right? And we're just... it's just getting started, guys. @devsec_ai: Um, but is... is everything going to be... you know, there are a lot of things that will get probably integrated by Frontier Labs eventually. But like I said in, you know, my previous, um, X posts is... is that it shouldn't discourage you. @devsec_ai: Uh, it should enable you. And that's because primarily... it is primarily because, you know, anything that gets into these mod... you know, or into these, you know, Frontier Labs, uh, harnesses, etc., those are defaults. @devsec_ai: The defaults will always need customization for... for different workflows. And that's where you come in. @devsec_ai: That's where all of us come in. So I don't think that we should take a look at any of this stuff as, oh, one day we're going to be swallowed into this, you know, uh, black hole and there's no way out. @devsec_ai: It's just... it's not... it's not true. I think we... I think if it... if it... one thing that it should do is it should empower you to build more. @devsec_ai: So I think we're at a very early stages of foundation. What is going to be a very... a little bit of a, uh, uh, uh, slowdown, it's not going to be as fast as things start to build. @devsec_ai: Security is going to be the key. So what's going to have is going to be... there's going to be a lot of wall guarding. @devsec_ai: The terms of services is a problem because what happens is... is that we see that with Rhea right now, right? Reverse, um, engineer anything. @devsec_ai: Um, you know, Claude code is starting to, you know, ban people for using Rhea. @NixFred: Right. @devsec_ai: Um, so... so you're going to see this. Uh, we saw this in early e-commerce days of eBay starting to, you know, ban people for stupid reasons when they were selling stuff that they didn't agree to. So yes, you are going to get this fr... uh, you are going to get these, uh, frictions. @devsec_ai: But I think at the end of the day, when it comes to vision, um, of where we're going, I think, you know, there will be some slowdown, but still, it's going to be a pretty accelerated pace. @NixFred: That's amazing, bro. So, uh, Mean, you've talked a couple times. I know you well, Martin. @NixFred: You've got a really solid background. You know what you're talking about. @NixFred: You came out of McCaffrey. I did see a post from you about, uh, omarchystore.com. @NixFred: How did you find out it was a scam, and what do you know about it? Help us... help us avoid a problem. @devsec_ai: So, so I didn't know, right? I... I was... it was news to me. So what happened was I... I've got GrokBot news and all of... all of the instinct, uh, instinct AI, everything running, um, and all the time. @devsec_ai: So Muse was the first one to message me and saying, "Hey, FYI, just, you know, there is a security... I mean, there is a potential, you know, scam going on here. You need to watch out." @devsec_ai: And I put... I... I precisely posted the screenshot. Um, and that's the. @NixFred: And I took a look at... I took a look at it based on your post. And so they have shut down the store, and they said, "We heard you." And they admit... I... I can't say if they're a scammer or not. @NixFred: I... I'm going to give them grace, just like we should all give everyone grace. But what they say they're working on is they're removing anything running with elevated position, uh, permissions. @NixFred: And I know that they had some pretty big problems. They're building installs so that you always see it and approve it yourself. @NixFred: And they... they say that they're reviewing every listing. So we are talking about them. @NixFred: Let's give them grace. It might be legit. @NixFred: Let's don't... let's don't assume anything. Um. @devsec_ai: So. @NixFred: I hope... I hope that they are amazing. I hope that it's something that's going to be great. I want to see everyone succeed, and I'm not going to count anybody out until they stab me with that, right? @NixFred: So, okay. @devsec_ai: So from my perspective. @NixFred: One last question. One last question for you, Martin. I can't let you go without you talking about, uh, Shield. @NixFred: Tell us about the NVIDIA Shield TV, man. @devsec_ai: Yeah. So, so, so the... so the... so, so we... we successfully broke NVIDIA Shield, uh, 2017, uh, from the, uh, uh, Android and NVIDIA wall garden, and we put, uh, Omarchy on it, uh, which... which is based on an ARM Tegra X1 processor. Um, it was 48 hours of doing, uh, of tinkering, and... and it... it was... it was... but when I say 48 hours, I mean, you know, every day, like, being 16 to 18-hour days. @devsec_ai: Um, now you can say agents doing the majority of the work. Uh, yes and no, because there's a lot of manual work that has to go, unplugging in, plugging in, something not working. @devsec_ai: Uh, there's a physical hardware there. So, um, so we did that, uh, our, you know, the Omarchy installs. @devsec_ai: We had to write some drivers, uh, to make sure that the, uh, um, sound and, you know, heat... um, not just the sound, but the... the GPU acceleration and also, um, the heat man... uh, the temperature management and everything else is working properly. We did that. @devsec_ai: Um, and, uh, it's running. Uh, the... it's, um, it's great. @devsec_ai: Um, so we were like, "Okay, so what, you know, one done. What's next?" @devsec_ai: So I basically took out a bunch of old dusted-off tech, and we basically went, uh, the next one is a Surface Book, uh, uh, Surface Pro 4 running on an Intel processor. Um, and on that guy, the problem with that guy is... is that, yes, you can, you know, easily load Omarchy because it's x86. @devsec_ai: But the challenge that you have there is... is that the, um, uh, the touchscreen and the, um, all of the, you know, you know, anything that was built into the firmware for drivers for touchscreen and everything else, uh, multi-touch, nothing... nothing was working. So we got it... so we got it completely working now. @devsec_ai: Um, in fact, you might see a demo later on today. And I built a complete desktop mode and a tablet mode into it. @devsec_ai: And DHH was, uh, basically commenting on it because he's... he's... he's eager to see it. Um, so we put the tablet mode on. @devsec_ai: Uh, the tablet, you know, basically, you un-dock it. It becomes a tablet mode. @devsec_ai: You dock it. It becomes a laptop. @devsec_ai: Um, it comes with... and... and all of the, you know, all of the gestures, everything, you know, gets converted into a tablet. So now you have this device that can be a media consumption and por... you know, portable device that you can take anywhere with you, un-docked. @devsec_ai: But when you pro... just like, you know, Samsung, uh, decks, when you bring it back and you dock it back in, it turns into a full desktop. @NixFred: That's amazing, bro. @devsec_ai: So keep up with the news for now. @NixFred: Yeah. @devsec_ai: For sure. @NixFred: All right. Thank you for... thank you for the chat, and thanks for showing up. @devsec_ai: Yeah, I appreciate it. Thank you. @NixFred: And, uh, we'll chat soon, bro. And, uh. @devsec_ai: Yeah, for sure. @NixFred: I have to give a letter right now. I know Heath. I've known him for 20 years. @NixFred: I know what he works on. I appreciate you joining, Heath. @NixFred: There's... and I'm going to just let you just... just talk, man. Everything you say, just start talking and I'll shut up. @MuchmoreIT: Uh, hopefully, hopefully you can hear me. @NixFred: Oh, we hear you great. Maybe pull away from the mic a little bit. @MuchmoreIT: Yep. Sorry. Um, so, uh, Fred, you... you and I definitely have to chat, uh, again, um, because you were talking about, uh, ideas. @MuchmoreIT: And unfortunately, I have too many ideas, and I don't have the time. Um, so if anybody that wants to reach out to me. @NixFred: Just pull me up, man. Just back off... back off that mic a little bit. @MuchmoreIT: Uh, believe it or not, uh, that... that is Omarchy Linux doing a fantastic job on the... on the microphone on my, uh, Dell laptop, so. @NixFred: There you go. So let me tell everybody a little bit about Heath. He works on the biggest systems that you know about, and he can't say what it is. @NixFred: He's not trying to be cool. He really does. @NixFred: Um, you were... you were also what, a F22 communication? @MuchmoreIT: 117. 117. F11, Stealth Fighter. @NixFred: Okay. So I'm... Heath does not... does not brag on himself, so I'll do it for him. He knows what he's talking about. @NixFred: Heath, what's the coolest thing you saw this week in the... in the world of, like, really, really, really big systems? And if you can tease us a little bit, anything you can tease us with, we want it. @MuchmoreIT: Uh, I mean, you know, I think the fun thing about where this whole world is going, particularly in this community, because I just want to say thank you. This community, Nick, you... you and my brother, um, you know, the way that this whole thing is... is evolving is just, you know, music to my ears. Because I've been a Unix/Linux guy for the longest, longest time, and there... there are things that, uh, I've done on Unix and Linux that I'll never be able to talk about. @MuchmoreIT: Um, you know, but, uh, for those who never knew, this... the big famous Stealth Fighter that I used to be on, we used to do our mission planning on crame supercomputers. Um, and so that's, you know, one of the ways that I got started on high-performance computing. @MuchmoreIT: It was a long, long time ago. But I think one of the things that's really evolving, that's kind of getting crazy, um, is you guys all know this from the quantitization perspective, is the... the level of tuning that's getting bigger and bigger models. @MuchmoreIT: Because while Fred says, you know, I don't use... say this to flaunt it, but it's interesting. I work on massive models, and it's not me. @MuchmoreIT: I'm not that smart. Um, I... I build systems for people that use the models. @MuchmoreIT: Um, to... to kind of put it in context, I'm working on one right now. It's a 2.8 trillion parameter model with 105 billion active, and it takes 72 GPUs just to run that one instance. @NixFred: Can I run it on my 5070? @MuchmoreIT: Uh, once we get it quantitized, maybe. Um, so. @NixFred: What's the... what did you do this week for it? @MuchmoreIT: Uh, so... so basically, what... what people, you know, uh, really have to understand, and if you saw any of my posts about, like, the AMD stuff, you'll know I'm an AMD fanatic because I used to work there, is that one of the things that matters more than anything is the... the how much memory your GPU actually has, because that's that model sizing, right? And, you know, people will be like, "Oh, I'm going to go get the new latest AMD, you know, 192 gig model." Well, you know, @MuchmoreIT: if you read my post, you'll be like, "Yeah, it's not worth that extra money because we're getting so much better efficiency, the work you guys are doing, the work the Frontier guys are doing, and it's all starting to get squished down so that if you can fit these models in, you know, in, you know, even a couple generations old GPU, you're way better off than... than we were." So the only thing I'm saying is I'm encouraging you to go out and download LM Studio if you haven't @MuchmoreIT: had... if you don't have it. Uh, link that in with, um, Llama, you know, really just start to push those models. Because believe it or not, we're... the software is getting more efficient in how the models are being... being utilized. @MuchmoreIT: And some of the work I'm doing, uh, you know, I say I, I'm building the system. I don't do a lot of the AI myself, but it... it's getting pushed down, uh, to a place that is an amazing spot for all of you to go build those things that you're building. @MuchmoreIT: And like I told Fred, anybody that wants to reach out to me, I'll give you ideas because I don't have time to build all of what goes on. But, uh, I've worked with, um, some of you on a couple of security things to start up. @MuchmoreIT: Uh, I... I have some... I have an engine that I may or may not be allowed to release to the world. I'm waiting for legal to clear me on it. @MuchmoreIT: And then I will also be, um, uh, I didn't catch who was talking about the... the, um, manager of managers. Um, so we have something like that that we've been working on for a while in the big labs, and... and I'm trying to figure out how to make that happen on the smaller world. @MuchmoreIT: Something like Omarchy runs this, and it can... it can make a call out to Azure, AWS, GCP, Oracle, or it can call your local limited server or your GB10 if you're lucky enough to have one, and... and just be able to coordinate it all. So reach out to me because I doubt I'll have the chance to reach out to you, and then I will gladly throw ideas at people like, "Here, here's an idea. @MuchmoreIT: Go build it for me." Because I knew this call. @MuchmoreIT: So I just... this is a thank you to everybody on this call. You guys are amazing. @MuchmoreIT: I love the work you're doing. Uh, I steal a lot of your ideas every day for what I do for the government. @MuchmoreIT: You may not like that. @NixFred: Thank you, Heath. And, man, we really appreciate you joining every week and sharing what you can. Uh, again, Heath is a very humble guy. @NixFred: He is in the know, and he's seeing stuff that is not even released yet. And, uh, we were happy to have him here. @NixFred: So, Heath, thanks for joining, brother. @MuchmoreIT: What I got hope is... is I'm... we're the only company and, uh, on the planet who's authorized to install Google TPUs on your premises. So... so if you think about Google TPUs that you can get in the GCP, we literally have, uh, an entire GC... uh, GCP rack in our... in our labs. Uh, and we install them in the government all the time. @MuchmoreIT: So that's my only brag, man. That's it. @MuchmoreIT: But I'm... I'm not the guy that knows that stuff, so. @NixFred: I got a... I got a best buy credit card. @MuchmoreIT: Yeah, that'll probably... probably buy you a couple minutes on the TPU. Yep. @NixFred: Hey, man, you're welcome here every time. I appreciate you. Love you too, Brian. @MuchmoreIT: Uh, thanks, everybody. Again, like, reach out to me, and, like, I'll probably throw some ideas at everybody. And, Fred, I'll... I'll grab some time on your calendar, I think. @MuchmoreIT: So thanks. @NixFred: Yeah. I want to talk to you Monday. I got... I actually got something I need to talk to you about. @NixFred: I'll call you. @MuchmoreIT: Sounds good. @NixFred: Thank you, brother. All right. Thank you, uh, Heath. @NixFred: What do we got next called? @calledtocnstrct: Yeah. Uh, compiling things. Uh, I know you've been busy. @calledtocnstrct: Uh, what do you got to share with us? What... and, and, you know, we're kind of talking about, like, this. @calledtocnstrct: How do you see things, uh, down the road? Do you have some clear vision, or are things getting, uh, cloud... you know, kind of cloudy? @calledtocnstrct: And, and, uh, what's been... what's been going on? @Compilethings: Um, yeah. The way I work is I... I stick to my system, and I try to let all the noise settle around me and not pay attention to how things are changing because what works for me works for me. Um, I was very interested in what Zack said, though, about the orchestrator. @Compilethings: I run an orchestrator of orchestrators in Claude Code, and I'm, um, I'm making the GitHub now for it and releasing it. It's not anything the same as his, but maybe he can look at it and pick it apart and tell me what I'm doing wrong, or maybe he can take something from it for his or because I... I literally can run sessions for weeks. @Compilethings: I was in Poland. I was in Poland for a week. @Compilethings: I set up remote desktop on my telephone. I checked in two times a day. @Compilethings: They're not stopping. They don't... they don't stop. @Compilethings: I have it. But I'm... I'm going to post it. @Compilethings: I'm very bad at explaining things, but I'm going to... I'm writing an article up on it, and I'm going to put it on the GitHub, and it's going to be a one-click, uh, one-click test if anybody wants to test it. It's being tested now in the cloud by Claude until he breaks everything and finds... makes sure everything's right. @Compilethings: Um, so I wanted to... to reach out and talk to... to Zack if he was interested in that. And, uh, and, Heath, I run all AMD hardware, um, R9700s, a little bit of local inference, playing with, uh, Strata, so much larger models crammed into smaller spaces, but still maintaining quality. @NixFred: Nice. That's awesome. @Compilethings: My wife loves it. I haven't made it work for my work, um, but she loves it for legal work and stuff that she wants to keep off... off the internet. Um, other... I'm working with Omarchy, uh, just on the T480 right now. @Compilethings: I'm trying to get deeper into it, but I have to convert my old Windows machine. And it's just... it's... it's a lot. @Compilethings: But I'm, uh, I'm... I'm happy to... to be in the group and... and to listen and... and share what I'm doing. And I'll share my whole workflow in the next, I would say, two days. @Compilethings: It'll be out, and I'll put an article out on it. And every... I don't, uh, I prefer criticism, so you're not going to hurt my feelings. @Compilethings: You can just... @calledtocnstrct: How can you get better if you don't know what, uh, where you can improve, right? @Compilethings: Yeah. You can cut straight to the core, and I'm going to respect you for it. So, uh, thank you. @calledtocnstrct: That's awesome. And, and I'll... I'll tell you, um, you know, you're... you're embracing the spirit of open source right there. Um, you know, it's not, uh, you know, my... I'm a competitor, or, you know, they're a competitor. @calledtocnstrct: It's how can we share ideas? How can we bring our concepts together? @calledtocnstrct: And I love that, um, you've got some... @Compilethings: I... I play on both sides of the field, open and closed. I... um, yeah. @Compilethings: Because I still think there are some... some things worth holding back. @calledtocnstrct: Maybe... maybe that'll be a topic for, uh, for one of these, uh, sessions, uh, you know, open and... open and closed, and you know what's your mindset. But, uh, you know, I really appreciate, you know, you... you coming up and saying, "Hey, you know, I've got something that's kind of similar, but maybe we've got, you know, some unique ideas between these different projects," and, and, uh, you know, wanting to bring things together. @Compilethings: They're... they're the same, but his sounds much more clean. Mine is... mine literally just runs off of my .md files with Claude, and he can... I can spawn him seven sessions. Session one is the orchestrator of the orchestrators. @Compilethings: Every other session is an orchestrator with sub-agents. Session one's passing out all the work. @Compilethings: He holds all the context. I use a... a skill called compact skill. @Compilethings: I use a skill called startup skill. I use a skill called shutdown skill. @Compilethings: And those three skills maintain main thread context by the way they're playing. @calledtocnstrct: Yeah. Well, I'm... I'm super excited to, uh, to see, you know, what you put out and to see your article. Uh, I... you know, it's so hard to... to find, uh, high-quality content in this sea of information. @calledtocnstrct: And so that's why I'm so excited to have connections with all the people in this, uh, group. And... and it keeps expanding, of course, but, um, you know, being able to put something together and put it to... put together like an article, like you said, and... and be able to... to share that out with the community, um, really helps. @Compilethings: Well, I mean, I'm not doing it. I... I... I asked Claude to do it. I'll be honest about that. @Compilethings: He's... he's working. He's working hard on it. @calledtocnstrct: You're... you're the brains behind the curtain. Okay. So we'll... we'll... we'll look at it that way. @calledtocnstrct: But, uh, I really appreciate you coming up and... and... and sharing about this and... and letting people know what's coming. And so if... if they're, you know, looking to... to get into something like that. @Compilethings: I... I think none of us know what is coming. I think this is such a disruptive technology that we can't even imagine what will happen because tomorrow can be different than when we went to bed. @calledtocnstrct: Absolutely. Yeah. @Compilethings: Things are moving that fast. I... I see a world with open source everything. @calledtocnstrct: I... I... I... I've been in software for decades, and, you know, I'm thinking about the same thing. Uh, absolutely. It's... it's going to be really, uh, fast. @Compilethings: I... I see open source video games as good as the main publishers. I see it. Yeah. @Compilethings: It's going to happen. It's going to happen. @calledtocnstrct: Yeah. Yeah. @Compilethings: We can't stop. @calledtocnstrct: That's really awesome. @Compilethings: We can adapt like humans do. That's all we can do. @calledtocnstrct: Yeah. Well, I really appreciate you coming up and sharing. Um, we've got. @Compilethings: Yeah, thanks for that. @calledtocnstrct: Uh, Porsche coming up and talking about putting together information and presenting it to people. You've got, uh, you know, some experience with this, and I'm... I'm kind of curious to hear your... your viewpoint on this. Uh, like, you know, are you getting a clear vision of what's coming up, or, you know, what... how do you plan your, um, what... what you're doing next? @letsbuildanyway: Oh, my goodness. Thank you so much for those questions. Um, I've been thinking a lot about open source, and I talk to a lot of people who are not developers. @letsbuildanyway: And to directly answer, where do we go from here, I want to know what someone who doesn't like to tinker, what... which technologies in terms of Grokbot and Hermes that they're going to actually take away, and which technologies is just something that open source developers are going to get together and just talk about. Um, I make the assumption when I create content that people are lazy, that people value convenience, and that if someone had an hour, an extra hour, it's no question that they would use it @letsbuildanyway: for Netflix. And that's what I'm trying to piece out. Well, which part of these conversations that we're having will actually be implemented to the masses, and which one is just a great hobby? @letsbuildanyway: Um, so that's what I think about a lot. I think the biggest technology is the UX and how we are going to change workflows. @letsbuildanyway: Because asking people, "Hey, you have a whole department," like the corporate... the corporation, I think, was started by Henry Ford, if I'm not mistaken. And I think this is one of the biggest challenges of corporations and how businesses are organized. @letsbuildanyway: And I don't think folks are going to look at a Grokbot or what the heck I'm doing with Hermes and then naturally say that, um, middle management doesn't make sense, or we shouldn't have this kind of promotion. And so that's on a broad sense of what I think about. @letsbuildanyway: I... my content is more of a conversation. So it's really interest... it's really interesting. @letsbuildanyway: Like, people say, "Hey, this resonates with me," or, "You got everything wrong." And I was ex... that's what I was going for, especially for my local models, um, my latest video. @letsbuildanyway: Because I... I hear people talk about privacy a lot. And for me, I just took a problem, and I just tried to... and I created a solution. @letsbuildanyway: There are so many things that I don't know about these different models. There are so many things I don't know about a properly. @NixFred: Well, Porscha, hold on. Let's talk about the things you do know. What... what are you doing with the local models? @NixFred: Because I... you know, I think everybody knows that we want to get to the local. We want to get away from, you know, the open source community. @NixFred: Um, we embrace the frontier because it's helping us do what we want to do. But at the same time, you know, the frontiers might be anti-somewhat open source. @NixFred: I don't want to... maybe that's heresy to say. Um, but. @letsbuildanyway: No, but I think they know better than open. @NixFred: Yeah. Maybe that's it. So what... what's your thoughts on that? @NixFred: Where does it go? @letsbuildanyway: Oh, um, in terms of the frontier models not being supportive of open source? @NixFred: Yes. @letsbuildanyway: I... I thought you didn't like political questions. @NixFred: I don't think that's politics. I think that's... I think that's straight down the line of economics and ne... needs of people. And. @letsbuildanyway: I think we underestimate how many people want a nanny when it comes to. @NixFred: Right. @letsbuildanyway: Using computers. I mean, that's why I'm so talkative. @NixFred: Oh, now you're getting... now you're getting political on me, Porscha. @letsbuildanyway: But I'm not even talk... I mean, you started it, but I don't think many of us really appreciate how many folks actually want someone to tell them what to do and what not to do. Like, the average person that I've spoken to, they feel like freedom is a threat. They feel like they must have something above them telling them what to do. @letsbuildanyway: And so when we talk about the importance of open source, I mean, we're really not talking to the language of, I think, a lot of everyday worker drones. @NixFred: Right. @letsbuildanyway: Oh, God. That was really... that was... that had a lot of opinions in that statement. So that's what I think about a lot. @letsbuildanyway: And then that's... and that's really the reasons why I create this kind of content. Like I said before, I really loved working for Hermes and creating a local model, downloading it, seeing that my hardware kind of sucks. @letsbuildanyway: And, uh, so that's where I'm at. I feel like I am blabbering now, so I'll stop there. @NixFred: Yep. Porscha, you are always welcome here. You're one of the teammates. @NixFred: We love you, and I look forward to talking to you every single week. @letsbuildanyway: Thank you. @calledtocnstrct: Yeah. And that's... that's, um, you know, that's a really interesting insight. Um, we should come back to that, uh, concept of, you know, somebody coming up with ideas on their own versus, you know, kind of like having things handed down. @calledtocnstrct: There was actually some really, uh, interesting studies, uh, done around that. So let's, uh, let's table that for a discussion, uh, on another call. @calledtocnstrct: But, um, I... I'm interested to hear your thoughts on that when we get around to it. Uh, thank you so much for that. @calledtocnstrct: We've got Daniel coming up. And again, I wasn't following Daniel, uh, when we started this call. @calledtocnstrct: So I am really excited to. @NixFred: Shame on you. @calledtocnstrct: Exactly. Right. Right. @calledtocnstrct: I... like, I've had my head in the sand. But, uh, tell us a little bit about yourself, and what are you working on? @calledtocnstrct: And what's your... like, how are you seeing into the future with... with everything being, uh, changing so fast and... and being kind of cloudy? @calledtocnstrct: Go ahead and unmute yourself if you, uh, haven't done so already. @NixFred: You might want to check your mic, Daniel. You are unmuted. You just need to check that mic, brother. @NixFred: All right. Well, let's let him work on that. @NixFred: You want to take the next one? @dsegan: Can you hear me now? @NixFred: We hear you, brother. @letsbuildanyway: Yeah. We can hear you. @NixFred: We're still in time. @dsegan: Great. Sorry about that. Hey. @NixFred: No. @dsegan: Uh, thanks. Thanks for, uh, thanks for giving me the opportunity to speak. Um, so my name is Dan, um, and, uh, you know, my background is I... I kind of... I... I've worked in the tech industry for a long time, since the late '90s. @dsegan: Um, you know, I... I, uh, I got in back in the days of, like, Sun Solaris and HP-UX and all of those things, if you remember that. So, like, you know, old Slackware Linux when it first came out. @dsegan: And, um, I... I got into Omarchy, um, before the Quattro release. So, uh, you know, the... the... the predecessor to... to where we are now. @dsegan: It wasn't as AI-focused. I... I just kind of liked it because I wanted to... I... I had this little workshop in my basement. @dsegan: I... I wanted, like, a hacker, you know, workstation kind of thing, um, and set it up to kind of help me do things. I had a Commodore 64 down there that I was playing around with. @dsegan: And, uh, you know, I just really liked the way it looked and all that. And, um, and... and that... you know, that... that's what kind of drove me, uh, to... to using... using it in the first place. @dsegan: Um, but, like, the... you know, the way it's changed with the... the... the Quattro release, like with, you know, the AI-centric, agentic, uh, you know, um, you know, approach is... is... is really, you know, really appealing as well. And, you know, I... I... I've been really digging it. @calledtocnstrct: What... what doors has that opened for you? Um, you know, if you think about, um, from a builder's perspective, you know, did you... did you all of a sudden see, like, "Hey, now I can build differently"? And... and, you know, do you have some projects you're working on? @dsegan: Yeah. So I, um, you know, I was a developer back in the day, like a .NET developer and, you know, that... that type of thing. @dsegan: And, um, you know, just exploring AI in general, like with... with Grok and Grokbot and all that. Like, I started building a, uh, like a Lucasfilm-style video game about my... my friends have like a punk comedy type band that they... they do, and kind of building a game around that. @dsegan: Uh, and, uh, you know, just... just projects that I would have never thought of doing, despite being a developer, despite, you know, having some... some technical chops, um, you know, just kind of opened up the door, uh, for that. But, you know, in the... you know, on the... on the other side, on the... on the professional side, so my day job, I work for, uh, you know, one of these big hyperscalers that also sells an office suite. @dsegan: So if you could kind of guess who that is. Um, but just seeing kind of, you know, the way that AI is being adopted by customers in, you know, big corporate customers in... in... in the industry. @dsegan: It's... it's the Wild West right now. It is... it's AI is kind of magic, but it's also exposing to some of these... these, uh, um, customers and corporate, um, folks. @dsegan: Like, the... the software development aspect was never the hard part in getting stuff to work in that world. Um, you know, and it... and it... I think it... I think it's definitely exposing, uh, quite a bit of that. @dsegan: Um. @NixFred: That's awesome. Hey, Daniel, I got a question for you. So. @dsegan: Sure. @NixFred: You and I interact on X quite... maybe quite frequently, and. @dsegan: Yes. @NixFred: I saw that you handed Grokbot over, uh, an API key over to your Unify. @dsegan: Yes. @NixFred: And what... what came of that? What did you get fixed? @dsegan: Well, so I... I set... I, you know, kind of like I think what you were saying. I... I had set up a Unify environment, you know, a bunch of access points, and I had had some intermittent, um, signal issues in my basement, you know, when I'm walking around access point to access point. Nothing to where I wanted to, like, get in there and tear things apart and figure it out, but kind of an annoying issue nonetheless. @dsegan: So. @NixFred: Yeah. One of those things. @dsegan: So I. @NixFred: One of those things. It's like a pain in the ass, but. @dsegan: Yeah. @NixFred: Like, you don't. @dsegan: Yeah. Yeah. @NixFred: Man, I don't... I don't feel like rebooting my router for that. @dsegan: Right. Right. So I saw your post, and I said, "You know what? @dsegan: Hot damn, I'm just going to do that." So I sent it over to my Grokbot. @dsegan: It logged into the... the router that I had. @NixFred: Oh. @dsegan: It reconfigured everything. It found the problem with the radios. It... it identified a, uh, like a universal plug-and-play broadcast problem and a printer bro... like, tons of stuff that I would have never even had... had, you know, um, considered. @dsegan: And it cleaned up the re... like, I don't have any network retries anymore. Um, and the... the funny thing, I was... I was on my way, uh, the other day. @dsegan: I... I went to Micro Center to pick up, like, a... a NAS device. And I'm thinking about, "Well, when I get home, I'm going to have to, you know, back this up, put this over there." @dsegan: So I just started talking to the bot that had that key. And I said, you know, "Go SSH into this machine," and, you know, basically getting things ready, um, you know, to be... to be able to set this thing up. @dsegan: And that... that was kind of a magical, um, experience, especially I was, like, um, speaking to it over the Grokbot integration in my... my car. And it... it... it felt really Star Trek. @dsegan: So, uh, you know, it was... it was a... a really cool kind of technical, uh, experience. But. @NixFred: That's really cool. @dsegan: I just want to... I'll just wrap it up. And I wanted to... to say that I'm trying to get the Cleveland, Ohio area, um, event going. So I. @NixFred: Yeah. @dsegan: I did one last month. @NixFred: It's the speech word, right? Did you guys have your meeting last night? @dsegan: Uh, no. It is... it is, uh, this coming Thursday. Um, so I'm trying to do it, like, end of the month, uh, kind of last Thursday of the month. @dsegan: Beachwood. It's just outside of Cleveland. @dsegan: Uh, and, uh, you know, I... I, uh, I was the only one at the first event, uh, but, uh, I had a couple people reach out on Discord that wanted to attend. They, you know, couldn't make it or whatever. @dsegan: But it's something I want to keep going, uh, and... and, uh, keep... keep doing and, uh, you know, trying to get people to come out too, so. @NixFred: Well, we support you, brother. Uh, think that's... that's at the ner... nervous dog in Cleveland. No, in Beachwood, Ohio. @dsegan: That's right. Yes. Yes. @NixFred: Hey, man. It's always great to talk to you. We really appreciate you jump... you jumping on and coming by. @NixFred: And if you find out any other cool things to use, you know, I'm a big fan of the API, um, entry. So, uh, keep it up, brother. @NixFred: We love it. @NixFred: All right. @calledtocnstrct: All right. @NixFred: What do we... what do we got next, Joe? @calledtocnstrct: Well, uh, from a human, uh, you're... you're up next. And, you know, I just saw this post, "What if you ditched the grid and built your own life from scratch?" And at first, I thought, "What? @calledtocnstrct: What are you talking about?" And then I saw self-sufficiency and off-grid, and I'm like, "Okay. @calledtocnstrct: We got to hear I got to know what you're... you're... you're thinking about there." And, uh, you know, just, "What are you... what are you building? @calledtocnstrct: How... how are things going?" @_fromahuman_: Uh, yeah. Things are going good. Um, thanks for letting me chat, by the way, and hope everyone's having a good Sunday evening. @_fromahuman_: Um, yeah, that video speaking of, it's actually I filmed my neighbors. They're a couple of plots away. @_fromahuman_: Like, we live in, um, sort of agricultural land, a lot of trees and nature around here. So my background's in tech, actually, for about 25 years. @_fromahuman_: And in 2018, I just got sick of it and kind of just me and my wife decided to just pack up and, uh, travel a bit with our two kids. So we bought an RV and traveled Europe, went to Bali, Mexico, all over the world. @_fromahuman_: And, um, yeah, but in that time of, you know, coming from Microsoft and servers, um, so during that time from 2018, I've been learning Linux. And, um, yeah, it's been quite an adventure. @calledtocnstrct: I can imagine. Yeah. So. @calledtocnstrct: So tell... tell me about your... your vision. Like, you know, we've... we've got so much changing. @calledtocnstrct: And here you're talking about, like, you know, people being off-grid. That's a huge difference, being in tech, everything changing all at once, everywhere. @calledtocnstrct: And, you know, how... like, what do you... how do you see bridging that? And how do you see moving forward with everything happening so fast? @_fromahuman_: Well, bridging that is quite hard, isn't it? It's like two contrasting worlds, really. Um, I tried to write a tech article trying to bridge the two, but it didn't work out very well. @_fromahuman_: Sitting in nature, the laptop was a bit awkward. And there's a lot of other things to deal with, like Wi-Fi signal and batteries and all that, so. @_fromahuman_: But, um, in the beginning, it was hard. We... we basically decided to, uh, stop traveling and bought some land and lived in a tent for about a year while we saw how the land works with water and where the sun shines and where we can have garden and all that stuff. @_fromahuman_: So we actually started gardening before we even built a house. But since then, we've got a cabin, a proper solar setup. @_fromahuman_: And then, um, yeah, I mean, it's not bad. Oddly many people, but that we got friends and stuff around. @_fromahuman_: But, um, I've got some laptop set up, and I've been using Linux, and my kids have a laptop with Linux on. So as soon as I... I think it's like the third time someone mentioned Omarchy, and then I was like, "Okay. @_fromahuman_: Let me try that." So I dual-booted Windows with it, and then just immediately, like, found the experience really cool with a keyboard and a Super Key and all that, and been using it for about two or three months now. @_fromahuman_: And I've got it on all my laptops. Um, so what I've been working on is having to update each machine, like, in front of the machine, got a bit painful. @_fromahuman_: So, um, using my background in, like, networks and SCCM, where you deploy software to machines and stuff. Um, I've actually got a client and server, um, app. @_fromahuman_: I think it's more... it's going to be suited for the Omarchy server when they release their server version. So if you had a server running with this app on, and your client basically can, um, ask what operating system's running on whatever machine. @_fromahuman_: So you can get a list of machines. You can get a list of skills of machines. @_fromahuman_: You can change skills, copy skills. You know, like a connect like a orch... everyone's talking about orchestration of agents, but I think I'm looking at orchestrating the actual, like, a network of Omarchy machines using the agent, obviously, to, um, call the CLI and get all the information and do the technical stuff. @_fromahuman_: So I'm just... I've got the client server working. Um, it's a lot of testing because you have to actually try it on the different machine. @_fromahuman_: You can't let the AI do everything. So, um, yeah, like, I can call another machine's operating system. @_fromahuman_: It's only doing calls so far, so it can't actually push updates. But the next step is to do updates. @_fromahuman_: And then also have, like, a PXE boot within this, um, CLI. So if you reboot a machine or if you boot a new machine, um, there'll be a script that basically... I don't know if it's possible yet. @_fromahuman_: I have to look into it. But we'll install the agent and then give it all the details that it needs or what you want from the machines you already have. @_fromahuman_: And then, um, yeah, you basically have a machine pre-installed the way you want with your skills or that kind of stuff. That's the. @calledtocnstrct: That's really... it's really interesting because, you know, I... I see echoes throughout, uh, you know, the... the, um, history of... of the industry, uh, as far as I've been in it. And, you know, we kind of had this, uh, this innovation of virtual machines. And then at some point, somebody said, "Well, putting a virtual machine or multiple virtual machines on another operating system is just kind of wasteful. @calledtocnstrct: Why don't we just go straight to the hardware, and you can just push out virtual machines to the hardware?" And it sounds like, to a certain degree, you're... you're... you're taking this idea of, "Okay. @calledtocnstrct: I've got this Omarchy network of machines, and now let me push out AI." Um, and so not just orchestrating work that the AI's doing, but actually pushing things out to that Omarchy machine and making use of the fact that, you know, it's a malleable operating system. @calledtocnstrct: It's... it's your computer, and you can do whatever you want to with it. Is... is that kind of how you see this in... in a way? @calledtocnstrct: Like, you're bootstrapping. @_fromahuman_: Um. @calledtocnstrct: An Omarchy machine with what you want it to... to do and how you want it to function? @_fromahuman_: No, it'll be like an... an app. Well, you... you basically install the server, a CLI, right? And then. @calledtocnstrct: Yeah. @_fromahuman_: You have a client machine on your Omarchy, and from there, you could basically update another machine. So you get a list of machines on your network. You say, "Okay. @_fromahuman_: Update Omarchy," whatever the... the name of the computer is. And then, um, that... that was my first idea because I didn't want to go around clicking update on each machine, right? @_fromahuman_: So I was like, "Okay. Well, that kind of solves that problem." @_fromahuman_: And then I thought, "How else I could use it?" And I was like, "Okay. @_fromahuman_: Well, we have this .agents file, and I don't know if anyone else uses it, but, um, some of the skills that I reuse are put in there." So I could basically use the CLI to say, "Okay. @_fromahuman_: Well, copy this machine's agent skills, this and this," or a list. Actually, the server will have a list of all the skills because I'm putting that in the CLI as well, to, um, list each machine's skills, and you can basically swap between them. @_fromahuman_: Um, and eventually, like I don't know if you guys have heard of Fleet. I think it's a Linux, like, you control your Fleet. @_fromahuman_: But I... I when I found that, I was like, "Ah, shit. It's already, like, out there." @_fromahuman_: But then I thought, "Well, there's nothing really for Omarchy." So I personally didn't even look at it. @_fromahuman_: I didn't want to know about it. I didn't want to know what it does. @_fromahuman_: I wanted to build something that was in my head that I could use without having to, like, copy something else, you know? So from there, I'm just going to the more things I think of, I've already got so many things. @_fromahuman_: I'm just you need to test and check if everything works first. But, um, yeah, I think it'll be like a Fleet manager for Omarchy in a way. @_fromahuman_: But because Omarchy isn't the normal Linux, it's a bit different, so. @calledtocnstrct: Right. Right. And. @_fromahuman_: And also maybe a bridge for if you if there was some kind of bridge to connect to, um, Grokbot CLIs from two different machines, maybe that could, like, be a bridge for that. Um, so you could run commands. Instead of going through SSH, you'd just have the it's... it's going to be secured by machine ID. @_fromahuman_: So each one's got a token. So it's a unique token that authorizes against the main server. @_fromahuman_: And then also, you could, um I was thinking of, um, restricting the API calls or, like, the CLI for different so if you want an agent to only read, you the token will generate, and it'll only give access to, you know, this. Or you can have an admin AI kind of thing that'll have a different token with different access. @_fromahuman_: So it could actually write skills or update Omarchy or do different kind of things. So I want to control it with the CLI, um, as well. @calledtocnstrct: Yeah. So you're... so you're really getting down to the individual skills, not just a skill file, but actually, you know, extracting out the... the individual skills within, uh, you know, the agents and the agents MD, and then being able to manipulate those and... and kind of, uh, sculpt the landscape across the... the network of machines, it sounds like. @_fromahuman_: Yeah. Yeah. Just an easy way to get your skills across. @_fromahuman_: If you were sitting on another machine and you're like, "Ah, shit. I don't have that skill," um, you should be able to access it pretty easily, right? @calledtocnstrct: Yeah. @_fromahuman_: Um, the way I'm using AI as well is for each product project, I have a different agent because I've been orchestrating. I've tried, like, Herder, and, uh, then I moved on to Turn. And if anyone's heard of Turn, it comes with OMP and, um, an AI called KARLI. @_fromahuman_: And I tried to connect two of those from different machines, but that didn't work very well. So I'll always end up back at HERMS, um, just because you have this bridge mode with HERMS. @_fromahuman_: So you can have two HERMS running on different machines and have it, like, basically act as a gateway between the two. So you can have a chat group with bots on different machines doing local things and stuff. @calledtocnstrct: Yeah. Yeah. So the question that that brings up in my mind is and I think you might have answered it already, but you're talking about, um, you know, that you're using these different tools. @calledtocnstrct: My... my gut reaction was, "Oh, you're... you're wanting to have the... the tools kind of compete against each other," in a sense. But, um, it sounds like you're actually trying these things out and... and then finding them lacking and... and coming back to a... a tool that... that feels more like home. @calledtocnstrct: Um. @_fromahuman_: Yeah. @calledtocnstrct: Do you get a different perspective, um, in the results that you're having these agents produce by having a mixture of... of agents in the... in the system? @_fromahuman_: Yeah. Whenever I because, you know, you want to try new things out. I've... I've been trying, like, all these different things. @_fromahuman_: And it's hard to keep track of is probably the main thing. I've tried, like, an Obsidian shared notebook where they write stuff so I can keep track. @_fromahuman_: But, um, yeah, I think with HERMS, it's... it just feels different because you can have your main agent, and then it can spin up sub-agents, and those sub-agents can have certain, um, information about projects you're working on so they don't get mixed up. Or you can actually add them to chats and stuff. @_fromahuman_: They can chat to each other. But that way, the information kind of stays with that bot. @_fromahuman_: It doesn't, like, get contaminated with other projects. Because if you let one bot do everything, it's yeah, it just doesn't really work out that well. @calledtocnstrct: Tends to get, uh, you know, kind of, uh, stuck in a rut, um, potentially. I've seen that, um, with, uh, with my use, especially on, uh, local AI. @_fromahuman_: Mm-hmm. @calledtocnstrct: Yeah. That's... that's fascinating. Well, I really appreciate you sharing. @calledtocnstrct: And I think, uh, you know, I'm going to be watching for what you're... what you're working with, and especially in this realm of, like, not necessarily bridging between, you know, kind of the off-grid and the on-grid and the on-grid all the time, but, uh, how... how, you know, people can, um, you know, both be off-grid, so to speak, and... and self-sufficient, and, uh, but yet incorporating technology into what you do. And I think that's a fascinating mixture. @calledtocnstrct: So I really appreciate your, um, you know, walking us through what you're working on. @_fromahuman_: Cool. No problems. Yeah. @_fromahuman_: Um, thanks for letting me have a chat. I was meant to talk to Nyx two weeks ago, and I messed up the, um I couldn't get onto Zoom because my the... the pin they sent to my email was blocked. @_fromahuman_: So I kind of skipped that. @calledtocnstrct: Oh, that would do. @_fromahuman_: So thanks for letting me have a say hello. @calledtocnstrct: Oh, that would be great. Yeah. Let's get rescheduled, man. @calledtocnstrct: Awesome. Yeah. @calledtocnstrct: Thank you very much. So. @calledtocnstrct: Hey, let's get it rescheduled. Let's get it rescheduled, man. @calledtocnstrct: I things come up. I understand. @_fromahuman_: Yeah. No, no. It's no worries. @_fromahuman_: I'm actually busy building a house as well, so it's like, I don't spend that much time in front of the computer, if I've got to be honest. So it's... it's mostly when I do, it's productive hours. @_fromahuman_: The rest of the time, I'm either in nature or. @calledtocnstrct: Talking to me is not productive, so do something. @_fromahuman_: No. Cool. My name's Steve, by the way. @_fromahuman_: Not, um, this... this from a human was actually during COVID. It's a long story. @calledtocnstrct: That's great. Thanks, Steve. I'm Joe. @calledtocnstrct: Uh, my name, uh, is... is, uh, you know, called to construct online, but, uh, but Joe. @_fromahuman_: Joe. @calledtocnstrct: Good to meet you, Steve. Thank you very much. @_fromahuman_: Cool, man. Okay. @calledtocnstrct: Yeah. @_fromahuman_: Cheers. @calledtocnstrct: Bye. Cheers. What do you think, Joe? @calledtocnstrct: One more? Yeah. @calledtocnstrct: We've got one more, John. Uh, kick us off what, uh, what you got going on. @drxiaozhi: Hey, can you hear me? @calledtocnstrct: We hear you great, man. @drxiaozhi: Okay. Uh, I think I I'm doing some, uh, unconventional developing here. I'm trying to build a whole JavaScript stack of the, uh, the whole user space. @drxiaozhi: Uh, I'm embracing Bun, uh, the JavaScript runtime, a Node.js alternative. Uh, I'm putting it at PID1, uh, the in that system. @calledtocnstrct: All right. You're going to have to slow down a little bit. So what made you do this? @drxiaozhi: Uh, I initially, I wanted to make my code, like, across platform in a way that it's, uh, actually the same source, uh, and not that compile a binary for each platform. @calledtocnstrct: And what's the benefit to people that don't understand all that like me? @drxiaozhi: Uh, that you can, uh, use the same, like, tools on, uh, Windows, Android, Linux, and you don't need to, uh, worry about the... the size. @drxiaozhi: Because if you, uh, if you need to keep, uh, a binary for each system, it will, uh, go large, especially for, like, uh, Golang compiled, uh, binaries. @calledtocnstrct: All right. Well, what's your next steps? @drxiaozhi: Well, I mean, what's my what? @calledtocnstrct: Well, what is your next steps? Like, what do you have on your plate? Like, what are you what's the goal, and where are you going from here? @drxiaozhi: Uh, uh, this week, I'm working on, uh, rewriting QuickShell in JavaScript. Uh, and I'm trying to make as many, uh, Omarchy apps work on my JavaScript stack. @calledtocnstrct: All right. And what's your fascination with JavaScript? @drxiaozhi: Uh, I think it's the interpreted language, uh, nature. And, uh, as I mentioned, that it's, uh, the same source, uh, running on all platforms. @calledtocnstrct: Okay. I went to Java Class three times, and I misspelled it when I sent my thank-you email to the I... I tried so hard to understand Java, and I couldn't get there. Just not... not a programmer. @drxiaozhi: Uh, I'm using, uh, JavaScript and not Java. Yeah. @calledtocnstrct: Oh. See there? That... that shows you right there. @calledtocnstrct: I have no idea what I'm talking about. @drxiaozhi: Okay. @calledtocnstrct: Well, hey, man. Um, we wish you the best, and I hope that, like, come back and join us next week and, uh, tell us the... the amazing progress that you made. We're we expect, you know, huge milestones and four or five releases between now and then, at least. @drxiaozhi: Okay. Thank you. @calledtocnstrct: All right, brother. See you. @drxiaozhi: Thank you. @calledtocnstrct: Oh, thank you very much, uh, John. That was great. Nyx, Fred? @calledtocnstrct: What do you think, man? I think, uh, it's been an awesome, uh, lineup of... of people. @calledtocnstrct: Uh, my mind is stretched. Uh, I'm just so happy that, uh, I've come across this group of people and this concept. @calledtocnstrct: And, uh, I'm... I'm just I don't know where to go. Like, my brain, you know what, what you know, where are you at? @calledtocnstrct: Like, uh, we've got so much going on, so much information, but yet I feel like I'm at home here in this group. Yeah. @calledtocnstrct: And I think it's... it's because the ju there's no judgment. There's no ego. @calledtocnstrct: And even a highly, uh, opinion... let's call him opinionated person like DHH, you know, he... he's got... he's got his opinions. But I think even through his opinions, he was smart enough to know that he needs to do his best. @calledtocnstrct: And I mean do his best. And I think he is doing his best to keep the politics out of it because, you know, he certainly is political. @calledtocnstrct: But I think his leadership through this whole thing, uh, I've talked to him once or twice, um, through DMs and other methods. And, you know, he's a super smart guy. @calledtocnstrct: He's... he's, uh, got his own, you know the way I'm what I'm trying to get to is, even through his confidence, I don't think that this is I think this is much bigger than he had anticipated. Uh, I think he'll tell you that this is exactly where he thought it would be, and that's... that's great. @NixFred: But, you know, to your point, um, everybody's here to learn, you know, in other technical circles, especially on X. Uh, I kind of kept my distance because I didn't really know, you know, as much as most people on X. @NixFred: And I and that's the case here. Um, and I don't know half as much as you guys do, but the... the acceptance in the community and the, uh, the non-judgment, the no-egos, um, you know, we had Heath on here. @NixFred: The guy works on 100,000 GPUs, and he's about as humble... humble as guy that you can meet. Lee Shand on here. @NixFred: Um, he's... he's testifying and promoting and telling the world of his disability and wanting to help others. If you got Portia that's... that's leading entire segments of people that are not technical to bring them to either technology or AI or Omarchy, um, and the list goes on and on and on. @NixFred: You've got DevSec that's, like, been in the industry for 20 years, and... and there's just so many people. And if I left you out, please forgive me because every single one of you are the star of this show. @NixFred: Uh, and I know that's cheesy. Um, it... it really is true, though. @NixFred: Um, so, you know, the last thing I'll say is continue to follow everybody. Uh, I've followed everybody that I can find on here. @NixFred: I actually got rate limited. Please follow everybody. @NixFred: Um, we would love to see you next week. Uh, you know, help an old lady across the street, and when you get her there, put her... put Omarchy on her laptop. @NixFred: Back over to you, Joe, for our last goodbye. Yeah. @calledtocnstrct: Uh, or... or even potentially her cell phone in a couple weeks, right? It's, uh. @calledtocnstrct: I love that. It's coming... it's coming fast. @calledtocnstrct: Uh, but it's a... it's a beautiful thing. Uh, I never realized how locked down everything was in the computing world, and here I am writing software. @calledtocnstrct: And I... I look back and say, how... how did I contribute that to that? You know, I've been in the industry writing software. @calledtocnstrct: Um, I... I could have done something before. I could have done a lot of things before to kind of open the doors and... and let people explore. @calledtocnstrct: And, um, but everything just, um, you know, became this... this kind of like, how do I build something so that, uh, I can get customers or that I can... I can provide a service for a customer? Customer, customer, customer. @calledtocnstrct: And now we have this opportunity where somebody came along and said, you know what? And I think he even said this. @calledtocnstrct: DHH said this. I don't want another business that serves customers. @calledtocnstrct: And that is, um, again, a mind-blowing concept, to just be able to build something because it's fun, to build something because it helps somebody else, uh, and to... to build, uh, something that builds a community around it. And, you know, my... my life will never be the same, uh, again, you know, another cheesy, uh, quote to say, but it's absolutely true. @calledtocnstrct: And so hopefully everybody else is feeling that way. If you're not feeling that way, reach out to me. @calledtocnstrct: Let's talk. Um, if you're not feeling connected in this community, uh, DM me. @calledtocnstrct: You know, get let's get connected and let's talk about it because the doors have been blown wide open, and it's a beautiful thing. Uh, so thank you, everybody, for... for coming. @calledtocnstrct: And thank you, uh, Fred, for, you know, hosting. And... and you're just such a wonderful person. @calledtocnstrct: I really appreciate you. @NixFred: Ah, shucks. @NixFred: And the last thing I'll say is, you're and I'm talking to you, right? You. @NixFred: Yeah. Yeah. @NixFred: The person that's hearing. I'm talking to you. @NixFred: Your only, only limitation now is not putting it in a prompt. That's it. @NixFred: That's your limitation. So remember that. @NixFred: Everybody, have a great week. Joe, you're amazing. @NixFred: Uh, tune back in next Sunday, 3 o'clock, same time. And, uh, Wes will be back. @NixFred: And, uh, we will see you next week. Uh, DM, call to, uh, construct, Joe. @NixFred: DM me. Yeah. @NixFred: X... X won't allow me any more characters, so I had to... had to cut it short. But yeah, call to construct. @NixFred: All right. Your only limitation is not putting it in the prompt. @calledtocnstrct: Have a great week, everybody. Thank you. # EP 08: Sunday Builders Club: The One Where the Machine Is Just a Portal Part of "Omarchy! Omarchy! Omarchy!", the weekly Omarchy X Space. Every Sunday, 3pm EST, live on X. - Recorded: Sunday, November 1, 2026, 3pm EST - Length: 88 minutes - Film (Sunday Builders Club, 4 min): https://omarchyspaces.com/films/ep08.mp4 - Hosts: @NixFred, @calledtocnstrct - Listen: https://x.com/i/spaces/1NglZEglAZjQMZ - Post on X: - Web: https://omarchyspaces.com/ep/08/ ## Summary (as posted on X by @NixFred) Sunday Builders Club, Episode 8: "The one where the machine is just a portal." Recorded Sunday, November 1, 2026. An hour and 28 minutes, a rough start, and a stage full of people who stayed up and traded ideas. Listen: https://x.com/i/spaces/1NglZEglAZjQMZ Full write-up and the complete transcript: https://omarchyspaces.com/ep/08/ Wes is normally the host and sets up the Space so everybody can hit remember and remind me. This week we had technical difficulties, so I started it myself, and the first stretch was me asking people to come up so I was not just sitting there running my mouth. Once the co-host got in (the transcript has me saying "called the construct" and later "Joe") it turned into a proper show. A note on names: the transcript tool hands out Speaker N labels and reuses them, so I am keeping the labels and only using a name where somebody said it out loud on air. Speaker 1 is me. THE ROUGH START Speaker 4, the co-host, said he tried to join from two different machines and one got blocked. His read was that the connection had been going through Tailscale and the Space dropped when it was turned off. That sent me down a side road. This week MagicDNS stopped working on a couple of my machines and I had to reassign Tailscale's quad 100. I could not tell if I did it, an agent did it, or Tailscale did it. Speaker 4 said his Tailscale also dropped at times and he had to reconnect by hand. Same for me, twice. That is why I love Omarchy with AI: when you are in control and something breaks, "the only distance between you and fixing it is your voice." THE WEEK IN OMARCHY Speaker 3, who I greeted as Catherine, gave the newsletter update: the Tuesday edition this week "is going to be the best yet," and it promotes Sunday Builders Club. I am still waiting on the stickers. I have not checked the mail, it is too far away. Omarchy 4.5 RC2 is out and the final edition has not dropped. I was hoping the person the transcript renders as "Hank" would stop by. I said he got promoted and is now one of the four founding staff, with more to come, says DHH. WHY OMARCHY WITH AI CHANGED HOW I THINK Even four months ago I was passionate about Macintosh. I have not used Windows professionally or as a personal machine since Windows 95, only in virtual machines. Looking back, I was "subconsciously ignoring things" I knew I had no control over, and it never occurred to me I could radically change how the machine looks and works. I just accepted it as 80 percent. Omarchy with AI blew away more than the ability to change things. It blew away the mind limitation I did not know I had. THE NEWSPAPER THAT READS THE OTHER BOTS Something I worked out on Grokbot. I was going back and forth with Tom Ballard in the comments, he pointed me to an article, and I told a bot to put it on my reading list. Then my brain did what it does: if it can do that, can it do this? My news bot used to have static topics. The next uplift is to stop making it static. Make each section its own bot, point the newspaper at all my other Grokbots as sources, and have each of them write its piece to a Markdown file. Then add the part I care about most, which is the Tom Tracker, the bot that tracks the people I follow on X. In my mind "the highest level purpose of Grokbot is the Tom Tracker," and it is funny to me that Tom is the one who showed me how to make it do stuff. I do not want the Tom Tracker as a section. I want it as an integration: if the paper is reporting a story, go see what the people I pay attention to have said about it. And do not just run sections one, two, three, four. Tell me why they matter together. You can follow anybody for this, even outside Omarchy and AI. If it is turtle raising, make it that. Any topic you care about, mixed with the people you care about, in real time. I posted the whole thing, and if you have it set up, all you have to do is add Grokbot as a comment and that news bot just got a job that feeds an upper layer reporting system. I am not smarter than anybody here. Tom taught me and "I just learned this 25 minutes ago." Where do we stop? I don't know. I am going a little bit crazy here. SPEAKER 4: THE BOT NETWORK AND THE ROLL-UP Speaker 4 said I am six months ahead of him, maybe a year. He started with a chief of staff bot like everybody, then added bots dedicated to GitHub reviews of the projects he follows and one that watches the Omarchy Discord because so much goes on there. He also built a personal assistant: he tells it what he ate and what activity he did, it checks the weather forecast and plans his schedule, because he hates calendars. What he was missing was a roll-up of it all, and the newspaper idea is a level above organization. It has become so important to his daily routine that he told every bot to back up its data files on a regular basis. Later he told the story behind that. He set up a connection to Google Drive and every night at midnight each bot backs up its data files into a folder named after the bot. He learned the hard way. The Grokbot app had a button to upgrade the Grokbot computer, he hit it, and everything was gone. The bots still knew their system prompt but lost the conversation history they kept in Markdown files. He figured it was a glitch. A couple of weeks later a Grokbot update did it again. He said fool me once, fool me twice, and that is when the backup went in. Some of those folders hold hundreds of K to megabytes, because he has bots building software on their own machines. They run on a Grok account, so he told them to use Grok Build, and they download compilers as needed. He also covered the token side. One format he uses is similar to JSON but token optimized: you declare at the top what your objects contain and in what order, so the model does not need a repeated tag on every item in an array, and it saves at least 15 percent, more as the data set grows. (The start of that segment is missing from the transcript.) He also has the team build custom command line tools for the things the orchestrator does over and over, and expects to save 10, 15, even 20 percent of tokens a day. GitHub already has a command line tool, he uses GitLab as well and had not looked for one. SPEAKER 7: THE NEW HERDER APP, TAMAGOTCHIS AND A SCANNED OFFICE I introduced Speaker 7 as "JK's brother" and one of my heroes. He said he just started with Grokbot last week, so I asked for something different. What he found last week is the new native Mac app for Herder. He said he started on Omarchy about two years ago, first with tmux, then Herder, and the native app connects to the Herder server. What he likes is that it is "really bendable," the same as Omarchy. Open Herder and tell it you want a side panel with all your GitHub issues, and a few minutes later you have it. The site is Herder.dev. On my side, my Mac has become a client: I start Herder on my server and SSH over, and on the Mac I use Orca more. He closed a couple of issues on the meeting recorder last week, which I use every day. And he made a silly project, the Tamagotchis: small robots in the corner of the screen so he can see all his agents working, which engines are running and which are ready. It scratches an itch and it is fun, like the paperclip he made before. Then the office. He pointed at a Wes Bos iPhone app that uses the lidar to scan a room into a zip file of about 400 megabytes, and he used Claude Code to turn his scan into a 3D room for a website. I retweeted it, so you can walk around his office. There is a poster that says move fast and break things, a couple of guitars (he played in a punk band), and coffee on the desk, not Coca Cola. He also ordered 100 Omarchy pins and hopes people order them so he does not keep all hundred. MR. HEATH: SCALE, SQLITE AND A FIRST GPU I said it out loud: I got my first GPU of my entire life yesterday, I had never owned a game GPU, and it is an AMD. Heath said he knew, that I had sent him the photo, and that he had converted another person. On scale, he runs Grokbot, a Claude Duet and Claude schedules. His scheduled tasks go out for the daily news, and he has them write a JSON sidecar of the pertinent information into a SQLite file, which feeds his larger database. He needs it for performance data like VMware benchmarks and CPU benchmarks, because he answers big proposals and RFPs and when a customer wants the latest and greatest he has it already. He is still working on a really big system for the Pentagon. All he wants anyone here to hear from him is not that he is doing bigger, cooler things: "it's not better. It's just different." He reads everybody's posts as inspiration, hopes to release some projects to the public, and he and I may start working on something. Speaker 3 came back with the same idea in a different shape. His news bot searches GitHub, so if a Codex update might break something on his PC it tells him not to install it. It reports the story into one specific Codex session he keeps for his Omarchy PC, which recommends what to update and what to hold back, and then sends it to all his bots through OpenBot so everybody knows where everybody is. Two more things from him. He released an Omarchy theme called Clearance, built on Heath saying he used to pilot an F-117, with an F-117 wallpaper. And he released Signal Tube, in his GitHub repo, which sorts out the stuff on YouTube that is important to you. Please test it. Speaker 4 said all this is exciting and a little offensive at once, because he makes connections between people and things for a living, and there is no way his brain keeps up with this much information. Technology reaching into areas we could never find on our own and bringing it to us is the brilliant part. SPEAKER 2: THE DROP DOWN, GROK BUILD, PAGES AND WEBHOOKS Speaker 2, whom Speaker 1 and Speaker 6 call Tim, started with the built-in console he thinks is coming in 4.5. He is on the edge branch, has it bound to super grave (some people call that tilde), and uses the quake style drop down. Grok Build is the Grok command line, like Claude Code or Codex but for Grok. It pulls from the same usage as your subscription and he likes it for low level hardware work and for the desktop, like asking it to create purple borders for a window while it cooks in the background. I asked whether I can call a Grokbot from Grok Build. He had not tried that, but he thinks you can call Build from Bot no problem. I joked about Grok Build managing Grokbot managing Larry managing Claude Code. Something will be on top of it next week. Then Grokbot Pages, the little dashboards that have been blowing my mind. He works for an MSP doing IT and security, supporting government clients, lately CMMC. At work they use an RMM to manage thousands of computers from a single pane of glass. At home he built a light RMM with Grokbot: Grokbot is the agent on each machine, and a central dispatch bot can reach out to a workstation and run commands, like an update. He tells Pages to list hostname, IP address, patch status and the metrics you would expect, and it builds the page. Webhooks are how the workstations ping back to the mothership. He has about 30 bots and a dashboard of all of them, and he told his dispatch bot to build a light RMM for small businesses with 10 or 12 devices. He is, in his words, "automating myself out of a job in some ways." I pushed on scale, since Grokbot is not managing 100,000 machines. His answer: get an MVP working in Pages, then have it write the real thing in whatever language. He also described telling a bot to find which of his posts got the most engagement and to suggest five posts inside his subject matter wheelhouse for him to review. Speaker 6 jumped in, sorry Tim, to say he has a similar problem with what he calls "air-gapped data holes," and that the two of them have to link up. Tim agreed. Getting to know each other is the whole point of this. SPEAKER 6: THE CHEAT CODE One more from Speaker 6, for everybody. O'Reilly tech books got expensive. Join the ACM, the Association for Computing Machinery: $99 a year plus a $75 add-on, so $175 a year, for unlimited access to the O'Reilly books, including books while they are still being written (he is looking at titles not due until 2027). It also includes Percipio, the training platform, with courses and tests toward CompTIA, Cisco and DevOps Institute certifications. Not affiliated, no payment, he has been a member for 25 years. SPEAKER 8: WIPE THE DRIVE, FEED AI THE TEXT FILE Speaker 8 had been dual booting Windows and Omarchy, but really only using Omarchy. A terabyte drive with 600 gigs for Windows was the problem, because taking space back means booting from USB and reorganizing the whole disk. So he wiped everything and installed the new RC. The trick: when he first installed Omarchy, trying to get DaVinci Resolve working, he kept a file of everything he installed, plugins, keyboard layout, screen layout. He fed that file back to the AI and it put the computer back the way it was. If you just record what you do, you can rebuild. Hermes runs through a gateway to his dev machine, so reinstalling Hermes and reconnecting brought back every chat and the history. His skills live in a repository, he writes his own and has another agent update them so he can see the changes. The new install feels much faster, either the new version or too much stuff running on the old one. The question he left us with: "if your machine had to die right now, how would you know what was on there?" Speaker 4 on that: he now views every machine he touches as a portal into his information. His information is outside the machine, he backs everything up, and "the machine is just a portal." He can wipe a drive, grab a new machine and go. All of this is turning into prompts you feed your network, so he looks at the future differently than the early 2026 way of thinking. HOW LARRY SURVIVES A DEAD MACHINE Speaker 4 asked how prepared I am if my bot network is wiped. I do not worry about it, I am an infrastructure guy by trade. Larry has a private repo and pushes up every night, no secrets. I use a symlink so that everything Claude Code stores lands in the project directory, and that directory is a GitHub repo. Here is the secret a lot of people do not know: a commit message can be paragraphs and paragraphs. When Claude Code commits to save himself, those commits become a kind of backup database. When he needs something, the first place he looks is local disk, then he greps the project. All of our harnesses have perfect memory. "The trick is how you get them to recall the right information at the right time" for the right project. I can lose my machine and I do not even think about backups, it all pushes up to a bucket. My whole setup is "probably $19 a month for everything." I used to have terabytes and terabytes of storage. Now I have nothing, and I like it. Speaker 4 noted the cost of things dropping while the capabilities expand. I had to step away to help a family member (nothing wrong, just important to us) and came back before the end. SPEAKER 5: BUILDING A TABLET, AND AN AGENT INBOX Speaker 4 turned to DevSec to ask about the project. Speaker 5 said he never anticipated how much goes into building a tablet, especially bringing graphic acceleration up across different chipsets. When it is done it should be a good testament to the community, and at some point the tablet and your large desktop will sync with each other. The most frustrating part is custom drivers. Device makers are limiting how much access you get to the chipset. There is a trusted execution environment those companies have to adhere to, Snapdragon has very strict rules, and that is why American versions of tablets are very hard to bootloader unlock: the chip makers' terms and conditions. Reverse engineering and open sourcing a driver is where it gets complicated. A couple of people he knows are doing phones. Speaker 4 said his feed keeps filling with people bringing Omarchy to hardware and we should do a Space with that as the theme. If you know someone working on this, say so. Then Speaker 5's workflow, which he will also write up. His chief of staff on the Grokbot side is the orchestrator. In Google Drive he made one folder called Agent Inbox, with a folder for each model provider he works with (Duet, Codex and so on). He tells each agent to watch its own folder for Markdown files. When he wants a brainstorm or research, Grokbot writes the instructions as an MD file, drops it in each folder, the agents pick it up, do the research, and put the result in a completed folder. That is brainstorming with an unlimited number of models without spending crazy money on tools: set up the Drive, give each model its folder, have the orchestrator drop the file. Speaker 4 said his human team at work talked about the same thing this week, that different models, even just switching the reasoning level, change the personality, so you want several looking at the same project. CLOSING Speaker 4 tried something different this week and kept more people up on stage for crosstalk, so you can jump in on what someone just said. I thought it was great. I said we have regulars now, a little momentum, and "it's all about people learning." Thank you Joe, you are like a colleague and a friend now. As we say every week, help an old lady across the street. When you get her over there, put Omarchy on her laptop. ASKS ON THE TABLE Follow everybody in the room and boost each other. Test Signal Tube, the tool that sorts the important stuff on YouTube. It is in Speaker 3's GitHub repo, and he asked everyone with a little time to try it. Take a look at the Clearance theme, with its F-117 wallpaper. Try the new native Herder app. The site is Herder.dev. Want a cheat code for training? Look at the ACM membership and the Percipio add-on Speaker 6 described. Try adding Grokbot as a comment on my post and give your own bot a reporting job. Working on Omarchy for tablets, phones or other hardware? Tell Speaker 4 about it, a hardware Space is on the table. QUESTIONS STILL OPEN Q1. If your machine had to die right now, would you know what was on it, and could you rebuild it from a text file? Q2. If something catastrophic hit your bot network, are you prepared to restore it? Q3. Where do we stop? When the newspaper reads the bots and the bots follow the people, how far up does the integration go? /Nix and Larry ## Transcript Machine generated. Speaker labels come from the transcription tool and are reused for different people; the summary says who is who. Speaker 1: Hey, all three of you guys. Thank you for coming. We had some major problems. Wes is normally the host, and so he puts it out there. Everybody hits remember and remind me. having some pretty bad technical difficulties, unfortunately, like we always do sometimes. And so I started it, so I've tickled that the six of you found it. And we are going to do a show, and it might just be for a few of us. So stick around, and please apologize for the for the lack of preparation or whatever, or the lack of the connection. So hang on, Just one second if anybody would like to come and join me so that I'm not just sitting here running my mouth and being boring I asked to speak and let's chat about your week. Boom. Who is it? All right, Catherine what's going on? How'd they have the newsletter go this week? Speaker 1: Look at there. It's not promoting her So weird they said they fixed us are you there? Sorry. All right. Well, give us give us the 22nd update on how this week went for you with the newsletter Speaker 3: Okay, really well. The Tuesday edition coming out this week is going to be the best yet. And it promotes Sunday builders club as well as well. Speaker 1: That's kind of it. I love it. Well, we look forward to reading it and can't wait to get to get my hands on that. So thanks for all you do for the community. I look forward to getting those stickers from you. Speaker 3: Super. Yeah, you should have them- I don't know what- Speaker 1: I've never checked the mails too far away. I'll get to it. Speaker 3: Okay. I understand that. I have to arrive in 20 minutes to get mine. Speaker 1: All right. Take it easy. Sure. Let me do some housekeeping here. There's called the construct. Let me pull him in. Hey, Cole. Did you get? Okay, so let's just jump real fast and thanks for everybody being here. I want to run through the stories we're going to talk about once all of the gang gets here. We saw that Omarchy 4.5 RC. RC2 is out, so Final Edition hadn't dropped. I was hoping that Hank or might drop by. He got promoted and is now one of the four founding staff. More-howers to come, says DHH. Speaker 1: And there's a bunch more stories that we can talk about this week. As my compadres, have they joined yet? Guys are you you on Sorry everybody, they're seeing how the sausage is made for sure. You're either laughing or frustrated, one or the other. It's awesome. Hey, hey, Sam. Oh man, you saved me. You saved me. Speaker 4: All right. Yeah, I tried to join from two different machines and, and it blocked me on the one with. Of course you did. Speaker 5: Well, hey Speaker 1: hey, um, could you kind of run down there? Try to hear my voice kind of run down what happened and why we're so late and the complete kerfuffle. Speaker 4: Yeah a sounds like it might have been connecting through Tailscale and then when he tried to to turn that off then the space dropped so yeah I'm gonna have a little bit of like tail Speaker 1: scale for me I usually forget about it I don't know about you guys but like it's so good that it just disappears and a couple issues this week with some of my machines MagicDNS not working so I wonder did I do something stupid or does my experience this week coupled with with Wes is there something going on with the DNS? Because I had to go into a couple of my machines and reassign Tailscale's quad 100. So I don't know if that was something I did, something that one of my agents did or something, Tailscale a problem with. Speaker 1: I'd love to hear if anybody else had a problem with. Speaker 4: I'm not sure about that I did have some times where it just disconnected and I had to go manually reconnect. So not sure. Speaker 1: Yes, that happened to me twice too. So that's commonality there and that's where we saw Well, we're wrong maybe. In this case, that's why I love Omarchy AI so much. It's like when you're in control of it and it is a problem, the only distance between you and fixing it is your voice. Speaker 1: Apparently, cold doesn't have one. So what I'm talking about is, So we have, I was so passionate about Macintosh, like even four months ago. Like how fight you, you talk about it. I have not used Windows professionally or as a personal machine since Windows 95. I have used it in virtual machines. Speaker 1: subconsciously ignoring things that I I knew that I just didn't have control over. And I'm not talking about like how it looks because I'm I'm I guess that's That right there is an example of why it was okay I was, I liked it. I didn't think it was amazing, but it never occurred to me that I could radically change it. That's an example of how Omarchy with AI has completely blown away, not just the fact that I can, but there was a mind limitation that I had that I just accepted it as 80 percent. I just accepted it. Speaker 1: Real quick, I want to talk about something that I've come up figured out tonight at Grokbot. I know a lot of you are using Grokbots. One of the things that I figured out was, I was joking around with Tom Ballard, just back and forth in the comments as I like to do. I hope I'm interacting with all of you. Speaker 1: Put this on the list. I know that probably if you're using Grokbot, everybody's doing that and that's cool. The only way that my dumb brain learns is I build on one little idea and go, if it can do that, can it do this? When he said, but remember this article, I want to come back to it, put it on my reading list and I. That's cool. That's a good use. That's interesting. Then it occurred to me, I like lifting people up and think it's fun. What I did it was, I said, I commented on that and I like to make it ridiculous, for Tom, Thank you. So then again, my brain goes, how Give me the news on. So the next upgrade or the next uplift is to start telling it to merge those things. And instead of making it static with those topics, make each of your Gro that I work on on and I pay attention to. So instead of having static subjects in your newspaper, tell the newspaper to do all those things, but then also go get as a source those other Grokbots and tell those bots bots to write their newspaper or whatever in an MD Then, and then it occurred to me, that's why I'm here. The Tom Tracker thing, like that is pretty much the definition or in my mind, the highest level purpose of Grokbot is the Tom Tracker. It's funny to me that I had this epiphany. Tom showed me how to make it do do stuff. So the point of this is that if that's the highest thing, then I want my newspaper to use all of the bots as a source, but then as and that's the structure, but the integration or the theme now of the newspaper is through the lens of the Tom tracker tracker and what those people are talking about. So don't give me the news about AI. Give me the news about AI. Give me the news about AI and integrate what the Tom Tracker, all the people that I pay attention to, have said, done, what they care about, bring it all together so that the newspaper is no longer topics the newspaper is now Grokbot outsourced of very specific tasks. Speaker 1: Bring those, tell your newspaper to not just report each one of them, but why do they matter together? Like bring it all together. there's two pieces one is all of the other bots one is the the tom tracker bot and and then the other is is that they all like i don't want you to report sections why does this one attached to that one And the last most important piece, and then I'm gonna give it over to somebody else and thank you for, listening to this. The last important piece is that you can also drop in. Speaker 1: I've just posted and this is an advertisement. I truly want to teach you. I just posted this whole thing into a post. All you have to do if you've got it set up, is to go add Grokbot as comment. Now, if you've Great. What happens is that news bot just got a job. That now feeds an upper layer reporting system that tells you what the people you care about, and whoever those people are, follow them. I don't even care if it's outside of Omarchy and AI. If it if it's a turtle raising, like make it that. Speaker 1: So any topic, your now your thing is, the people that I care about mixed with the topics that I care about, what they're doing real time, and for me to add that skill or to have my Grokbot paper follow them, all I have to do is tag Grokbot. I hope this. This makes sense. I hope it helps you. If I'm doing it wrong, like let me know if I can take that up, like my brain's pretty much at the top level. And now I talked to you about how each feature builds each feature. If you can take this higher, Back over to you, Colb. Can you speak now? Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, actually while you're reading your messages I'll respond to that because I think what I think you're like six months ahead of me. Maybe maybe a year Which you know, I know it's all relative right but of course Speaker 1: Man, it's not there's no comparison here, right? So that's what's cool about this industry like there that's why I'm telling people this because Tom taught me to do it So now I'm teaching others. I'm not smarter. I just learned this 25 minutes ago Speaker 6: Yeah. Right, exactly. Speaker 4: So yeah, go ahead and bring me up to co-host, if you don't mind. Speaker 1: The thing is, no worries. Speaker 4: What's been fascinating is I took a similar approach, but like I said, you're way ahead. Ahead of me. One of the first things I did of course, chief of staff is there. I mean, initially at least everybody started out with that. But after I set up a couple dedicated to GitHub reviews, reviewing what going on on the projects on GitHub, that I'm interested in. And then, you know, I set one up to watch the Omarchy Discord because, I mean, there's so much going on there. Um, and, and then I said, well, you know, what I really need is a personal assistant. Speaker 4: And my personal assistant was intended and, and works really well for this. I can give it. here's what I ate today, here's the activity that I did today and I'm and go out and check. The weather forecast and plan out my schedule because I'm terrible with calendar. I kind of hate calendars. And so anyway, I got that set up and I liked that the personal assistant could kind of forecast things for me and kind of organize my But what I've really been missing is a roll up of what's going on. And that, you know, what you're talking talking about there is just a level above organization. And, you know, we're just beginning to tap into this. I'll, I'll tell you though, it it's become such an important thing for me that I had, I connected it to a disk storage technology. And then I told all of the bots to back up their data files on a regular a basis because you know, if something you know, if something happens, I want to be able to get back to it, how integrated it has become in my daily routine. Speaker 1: That's crazy. That's amazing. JK's brother, what's up, man? Thanks for joining. You're one of my heroes, man. Speaker 7: Thanks. Can you hear me? Speaker 1: Yeah, we hear you great. The floor is yours, man. Speaker 7: What do you got to say? Speaker 7: Yeah, what are you talking about? I just started with Grokbot last week, so I'm completely new in it. Speaker 1: Yeah, well, well, man. I mean, you do so many amazing things, man. Like, it doesn't have to be Grokbot focused on. I think we've got enough Gro Grokbot. Like, tell. Something different that we're missing or something that you're working on, because you're always Like you crank out the craziest amount of stuff and I don't know how you do it because I'm Like I I'm at 120% and you're running circles around me Speaker 7: Thank you Yeah, so last week I I um discovered a herder The the new mac app, that's something i'm really excited about right now stash already Speaker 1: Oh, I used so my macintosh has really become a client over to my machine So I start Herder over on my server and then I SSH over so that's not really using Herder on my Mac On my Mac, I really use more Orca because it's why I skip the visuals But I don't really do much on my Mac because when I go into Herder or when I go into Orca on my Mac I just like to go to my server anyway, so Speaker 7: Did you see that they released a native app? Speaker 1: I did not so please I want to you know, you learn something for you every time man. What's the new thing? Speaker 7: So I've been... I started using Omarchy like two years ago and then I first I was using tmux. And then I started using Herder, which is kind of the same, but it's the default in a market right now. Yeah. And I've been using that for a while. So what it does, it can keep your app, which connects to the Herder server. And the cool thing about this native So it's just as flexible as Omarchy is. Speaker 1: How does that help your workflow? Are you combining that with Tailscale, with other things, and kind of mixing together to be able to continue working no matter where you are? no matter where you are. Speaker 7: And the cool thing is that what I'm doing right now is like, I'm you can see all the details and you can completely customize how you work with it. Speaker 1: Yeah, and I see you're not just talking about in the terminal, you're talking like a brew command, you're talking about, because I'm looking at your post from yesterday. Twelve hours, I'm already hooked on the new Herder app, What's flexible. What's flexible about it for you? Where do I find it man? Speaker 7: Herder.dev is their website. Okay. When I say flexible, I mean that the same as Omarchy is it's really bendable so you can just open Claude Code and say I want this background and then your background changes. And that's the same for this Herder app. So you open Herder and you say I want the side panel with all my GitHub issues and then it's five-. minutes later, boom, you have it. That's amazing. Speaker 1: What other, so that's something that you found. What's something that you made? I use your message recorder every single day, man. Oh yeah. Speaker 7: I, last week I closed a couple of issues from the meeting recorder. And what else did I do? I made like a silly project. the Tamagotchis. Speaker 1: What's the matter? Speaker 7: It's kind of a stupid toy thing. I wanted to see all my agents in Omarchy. So I made like small robots you can see in the corner of your computer. And you can see them working like the paperclip I made before. Speaker 1: So does that scratch a niche for you or is that something that you just like you got Speaker 7: to do, something a little Yeah, I think a little bit of both because it scratches an itch because I wanted to see all the time what my agents are doing and what engines are running and which ones ready, even if I'm not I also want it to be fun. Right. That's a little bit of fun. Speaker 1: I don't want to freak you out, man, but I Speaker 7: That's also something I made this week. Speaker 1: Yeah, you've got a poster on the wall that says move fast and break things. Yeah. You've got a couple of guitars. Tell us about the guitars. Speaker 7: Yeah, I played in a punk band when I Speaker 1: Of course you did. So tell everybody what I'm talking about and how the hell I'm walking around in your office. Speaker 1: What's his Speaker 7: name? Wes Bos. Do you know him? Speaker 1: I do know the name. Speaker 7: Yeah, he's like a kind of famous web developer. developer. He made like a iPhone app recently and a blog post. And he made an iPhone app which uses the the lighter of your phone, so you can scan a room. And then that gives you like a really big zip file, like 400 megabytes or something. And then you can use Claude Code to... to make it nice and 3D for a website. That's what I did. Speaker 1: I just retweeted it so if anybody wants to go walk around. around Dranky's office and look at the empty Coca Cola bottles on his desk, be my guest. Speaker 7: No, that's coffee. That's coffee on my desk. Speaker 1: And you bring Omarchy pins. I think you just ordered 100 of them? Speaker 7: Yeah,. True. Yeah, that's also. It has been a busy week. Speaker 1: You know, you've been killing it Speaker 7: Yeah, I ordered the Omarchy pins, that's true. Speaker 1: Of course, of course. Speaker 7: I hope people are going to order them so I don't keep all hundreds here. Speaker 1: Well, man, I really appreciate dropping by and it's been amazing to have you here. So drop by anytime. We really appreciate it. Mr. Heath. Speaker 7: Thanks. Speaker 1: What's going on, brother? Speaker 8: Hey Fred. Speaker 1: Can you hear me? Yeah, I hear you great. I talked to you on the phone this week. I don't know what you can talk about, but tell us some of the enormous, tell us the scale at what you're working on. You've been on the show a couple of times. I know it's super embarrassing to you. I just got my first GPU of my entire life. I've never even owned a game GPU yesterday. So I'm excited about that. And you'll, you'll be proud that it's an AMD. So. Speaker 6: Oh, I know man. You sent me that photo or, you know, are you sending it out? And I was like, yeah, I've converted another person. Speaker 1: You Talk about scale, man. Speaker 6: Well, first of I have grogbot, I have a Claude duet, I have a Claude schedules, and so one of the things, and I shared some of mine with you, and I shared some of mine with you, right, when we were were talking. And so one of the things that you and I probably didn't talk about is that I have another function. So if you're out there running So if you're out there running, um, Grokbot or Duet or, or any of these things in the schedule, they go out and get you the daily news, right? Like where you were talking. Speaker 6: So what I do is I take a, I take and I have it create a JSON side of pertinent information. And then I store that in a SQLite file. Um, then part of the reason I do that is because of what I need to constantly do, Fred, I showed you some of my stuff where I'm always looking at performance databases. And so in my, you guys have probably all seen them, you know, VMware benchmarks or the CPU 2017, 20, 26 benchmarks of just, you know, how fast. How fast does the CPU, how fast. How fast does the GPU, whatever it is. Speaker 6: And so in my world, I need to keep track of all that because as much as CPUs and GPUs and networks and everything change. because I have to respond to a lot of these super big proposals, RFPs I have to keep on top of that. So what I do is I take the output from these new source pieces and I extrapolate them out into a SQL database or SQLite database that is and then that gets parsed into change in my larger database. And so I compare those to be able to constantly feed my system with new information so that when a customer wants an RFP on the latest and greatest, I have it. And I've gone out and I've screen scraped or I've done something. And so that's what I do a lot of times on my scheduled tasks. So instead of just me reading the news, it just kind of goes out and populates a database for me to use in a proposal sense and just gives me all the latest scale wise. Fred, you get to see some of this. still working on a really big system for the Pentagon. And so it's just one of those things where all I ever want anybody in this group to hear from me is not that, hey, I'm doing bigger, better, cooler things than you. I'm not. We're doing different things. I read your posts. Speaker 1: Fred, she just has more heroes. Speaker 6: It does. But I'm reading, Fred, I'm read your posts. I'm reading everybody's posts of what they're working on. And it's just inspiration to me because I work on a different scale and that's it. It's again, it's not better. It's just different. And so it's one of those things where part of what I am hoping to do, Fred, you've had a peek behind the curtains, you know, now is, is I want to try to figure out how to figure out how to back more because. Because I've been taken. And so, you know, there's, there's some projects that are coming down the line that I hope to to be able to kind of release to the public. And Fred and I may start working on some stuff that might blow some people's Yeah, anyway, I just wanted to say how I use my new source pieces to build a sidecar of information to kind of feed another database that ultimately helps me out in what the Speaker 1: So Amazing Speaker 3: . I interests And so my news. It it come back to me me so many times and said, Yeah, people are having issues and right and the one thing that was sticking out was the B I think it does it for everything if codex does an update and it goes out and searches GitHub and that update says it might mess something up on my PC right it tells me not to install it so so so it pulls in that news right but not only does it do that it will then send it I have many many Codex sessions, but one of them is just for playing around with my PC, right? Speaker 3: Stuff that's relevant to changing stuff on my Omarchy PC. So, it will also report that specific news story into that specific Codex session. And that Codex session will take it any further and then give me recommendations on what I should update, what I shouldn't update, things I should hold back on. And then it sends it to' to all of my different bots via OpenBot so everybody knows where everybody is. Speaker 1: That's amazing, man. It sounds like you got tight integration and the key to everything you're saying is just report individual sources, have it go between each one of the sources and tell you why it's important, important to you and protect you and those kinds of things. Well, man. Speaker 3: And I learned a shit ton of stuff by doing it that way. That's amazing. Speaker 1: Well, thanks for dropping by every every week and we love hearing how you're doing, man. Speaker 3: Just two more things, two more things very quickly. Heath, this one's for you. I released an Omarchy theme it's called Clearance. And I did it off the back of you saying that you used to to pilot an F-117 and it's got an F-117 wallpaper in there. So take a look at that. And then, the other thing I released was Signal Tube. It's in my GitHub repo. And it's a way where it sorts out the stuff that that's important to you on YouTube. So if everyone could go and test that if they have the time, I Speaker 4: that you were talking about. On the one hand, I almost feel offended by it, but on the other hand, it's so exciting, and I'll explain that. One of the. That I tend to do naturally, the way my brain is set up, is that I make connections between things. And so one person will tell in a week later, another person will tell me something, and later, somebody else will say something, and then I'll see a connection between those, and kind of orchestrating the connectivity or building a network between different people doing what seems like somewhat related or somewhat disconnected things have threads of connectivity. And that's always kind of been a specialty of mine. And so I've been able to connect small communities of people together in ways that they may never have interacted or technologies. And so on the one hand, I'm like, I'm gonna What really occurs to me is that there's so much information and it's coming at us. so fast and from all different directions, there is no way that my brain could keep up up with that. Speaker 4: And so this concept of having having technology be able to reach out into areas that we could never find on our own. We just don't have the time and the capacity and bringing that to us and then connecting that with what you were saying, Fred, in summarizing and bringing it to you as you need it is just. just brilliant. And so I love that concept. Speaker 1: Yeah, so I think of it in two terms, like one is the structure of the newspaper. And then I think of it as plugins. Like I didn't want, I did not want my Tom tracker that tracks all the people that I want to follow on X that are doing incredible things. I did not want that as a section. I want that as an integration. Like if you're reporting on a story, see what Tom has to say about it. If you're, you know, reporting on this, I think we all see our different similarities. I think Lee was talking about a way that he integrates. Speaker 1: I know that Heath is talking about the way he integrates, but I think of it in terms of news reporting sections and each of those sections are a differentbot. And then blend the sections together. Don't just go one, two, three, four. How do they relate? And then an integration to me is, what are these people that I follow, what do they think about this? So you've kind of got meta on on X, feed your newspaper to have, I mean, it's just like, where do you stop? Where do we stop? I don't know. I'm going a little bit crazy here. Speaker 4: I definitely understand that. I just want to take a second want to talk about the project Speaker 2: around with the built-in console I guess that's coming up probably in RC 4.5 I know that Fred had mentioned that earlier today I'm on like the edge branch I believe so yeah I mean it's already kind of there I've been playing with that I have it bound super grave some people call that tilde and I was able to just last night I was messing around and so my Omarchy specific is, um, you know, I'm using the, the X stack for the AI, the SI, but, uh, I have. Gro Speaker 1: Are you talking about the dropdown? Like my mind is I don't even I can't even understand what you're describing like break it down for me. Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah. So the drop down that comes from the top of the quick terminal, quick terminal. Yes. Okay. Yeah, the quake terminal. and ask it questions and really where build shines, like Grok build shines is like working with the desktop. You know, I can tell it, hey, create purple borders for my window or whatever. and it just kind of cooks in the background. I can just, you know, minimize the terminal again or make it disappear. So I just wanted to throw that one out there. endangered. Speaker 1: What is Grok build? Not Grok bot, Grok build must be something else. Speaker 2: Oh yeah, if you go onto your console, if you just open up Foot or Kitty or whatever it is that you use for a terminal. Speaker 1: Okay, I'm there. Speaker 2: You should be able to type grok. If it's not there, Oh. You should be able to open up your spotlight. And then just type And then just type Grok and I think it will install it just it's the Grok command line. Okay, so it's like code or codex but just for Grok. Exactly. And if you already have this subscription, it pulls from the same usage. And I really like it for low level stuff like hardware stuff. Now, if I'm in Grok build, can I call on a Grok bot? That's a good question. I haven't messed with that. Speaker 2: that might be. I like so it's interesting. It went from Claude Speaker 1: Code, to now grokbot and now I'd like to have grok build manage grok bot manage Larry manage Claude Code and that's a joke. So let's maybe able to we got grok bot managing grok. Wait, grok build managing grok bot. A server on herder in a project file named in a project file on Claude Code, Speaker 2: we just want to lay it. This is ridiculous. Yeah. Speaker 1: You know what? Something's going to be on top of it next week. I'm telling you. Speaker 2: Yeah. I think you can call Build from Bot, no problem. But I was going to say say, so Grokbot Speaker 1: Pages has been blowing my mind lately. They're like these little dashboards that you can create. Sunday evening. So tell me what I'm doing tonight, Tim. Speaker 2: Okay. So pages. So tell one of your bots, tell one of your Grok bots say, Hey, give It'll be like, here you go. Here's a bunch of posts that you posted. Or you could say, refine? Refine which posts are most popular or which posts got the most engagement. Something like I haven't really said this, but I work for an MSP. My job is IT slash security. We support some government clients these days. So lately I've been doing some CMMC stuff. stuff so like he's neck the woods and one of the things that I'm getting off track. I'm going to try and like loop myself back to where I was going but one of the things that I do with work is like we use our RMM right we manage thousands of computers so you need to have a single pane of glass to be able to devices you know like this company uses you know these computers this company uses you know, these workstations. So what I've been doing with Grokbot on my own personal thing is I created like an RMM client to where Gro. Bot is the agent it any computer that Gro installed on is now back doored if you will or it is it has an agent installed on it. So if that machine is powered on my central dispatch bot or any chat, I can access it through Grokbot and I can tell it to, hey, reach out to this workstation. do commands on it, do whatever, like perform an update on this server over here, right? And I'm able to have visibility on all of those workstations in pages. So I say, hey pages, create a page for me that lists out the hosts, I want the host name, I want the IP address, I want the patch status, I want all of these metrics that you would expect from a good remote management tool, and pages can do it. And right now- Oh no, please, I'm more interested in what you gotta say. I was gonna say right with five posts that are within my wheelhouse, like my subject matter expert wheelhouse, things that I can actually speak about and have expertise in, suggest them to me, create a sample post format, 280 characters, whatever, links, and then present them to me. I'll review them with a bot and then we'll just, and it's I'm kind of messing with the pages, right? and then web hooks. So the way that I get those, the way that I get the workstations to ping back to the mothership so to speak. is called webhooks. So pages themselves aren't necessarily gonna do that, but I'm able to, I was able to set up a webhook. And so you'll have to look at webhook and pages and you can even probably just ask Grok like, hey, give me some ideas for webhooks and pages and let's build something. Speaker 1: So, let me ask you a few questions about the scale So So, of course, Grokbot is not going to 100,000 computers that you manage. Grokbot must be managing something that's sending out controls to that. So Speaker 2: Well, yeah, I mean, sort of in some ways, like, Speaker 1: You see what I'm saying? Grokbot can't manage 100,000 Yeah. Speaker 2: And that's kind of it is like, that's kind of been the thing too, is like if I can do like MVP a working product and get it to function in pages and have it all like drafted up and stuff like that and have the functionality. I should be able to say like, hey, go write this for me in such and such language, go write this in whatever. And my idea is that like somebody mentioned earlier in the chat, AI is going to replace my job. Well, yeah, of course it is. Right. And so it's like. My daily job, I, I'm just like, this is so stupid. Speaker 2: Why are we doing this way, this way? Like if I had Grokbot, I would already have, I'm kind of like automating myself out of a job in some ways. And that's kind of my idea. my whole idea is like, if you have these agents out there installed on different workstations and they're smart enough, you should be able to, Oh, and that's the other thing. So I have a dashboard of all my bots. So, so this all integrates. So I have like 30, 30 bots, right? So I have my dispatch bot. So I can tell my dispatch dispatch bot and say, hey, look and create a light RMM for people that don't wanna hire an MSP or an MSSP. And just have something for like your 10 or 12 device, small businesses. Speaker 6: Hey Fred, Fred, I hate to jump in on Tim. Tim, you and I have got to talk. Fred, you are part of that project. Remember that? Tim I have a similar governmental governmental problem, right, is that we call them air-gapped data holes, right, is that things that need to be able to operate in, man, you and I are like It's crazy. Sorry. I had to jump in there. You and I got to link up. Speaker 2: Let's link up. Yeah, we'll get that going. I'm going to yield the mic. I took up plenty of y'all's time but yeah the main takeaway from, what I said, is pages and webhooks if in Omarchy. Speaker 1: Tim N, and getting to know each other, literally that's the whole point of this entire thing. This is- This is- Speaker 6: Hey Fred, one more thing. I wanted to give everybody the cheat code that I kind of told you about is, remember the training thing that we talked about, the ACM thing? I do. So this is a cheat code for everybody. If you don't know how, If you guys all remember the O'Reilly tech books. Oh yeah. They were just the thing, the subscription to have. But then that stuff got ridiculously expensive. I want to say it's like $ a year just for you to buy a subscription to O'Reilly tech books. Here's the cheat code. Join an organization called the ACM, Alpha Charlie Mike the Association for Computing Machinery. Speaker 6: It's $99 $99 a year and you have to add $75 on. And that, so for $175 a year, you get, when I say unlimited access to the O'Reilly books, I mean it's unlimited. And then the cheat code is what I what I told Fred that I do is you can actually see the books as they're being written. So I kind of showed Fred the other day. I'm looking at books that they aren't going to even be published until 2027. And part of that gives me this edge up in the in the world and the community. But I always want to give back. ack. Speaker 6: Go'sign up for the ACM. You'll get more out of it than not really. And it costs you not a failure. And yeah. And then so the other is, is that you get access to an old school thing from a training perspective called Percipio. It's where you can go get search like and it's included. Like you can take the you can take these courses, these tests, and you can go get your CompTIA's and you and you can go get your Cisco stuff and your DevOps Institute pieces and it's all included for $99 for the membership and $75 for the training add on and it's Speaker 1: it's a cheat code man. Go everybody go sign up coupon code bread mix. No, just kidding. Just we're not affiliated whatsoever. telling you something that is actually really worth your time and how to get cert Speaker 6: We don't get paid by it. We're not affiliated. Nope. Really. I've been a member for 25 years and that's it I don't get any special, you know for signing people up none of that It's just one of those things you got to do to help increase yourself Moving forward. You know, I got a drop. Thanks everybody. All right back over to you Cole Speaker 4: Wow, that's incredible. That's a an insane discount we'll say on on a vast body of work, but infinitely One., One of them instead. Speaker 4: is just a, it's similar to JSON, but it's a token optimized object notation. And it's just, it gets rid of some of the things in JSON that models do not need. So models don't need you to have a repetitive tag for the same data from one object to the next, to the next in an array. So you can just declare at the top what your object contains and in the order that it contains and items in your array and it just knows the label for each piece of data in each object and it ends up saving you know at least 15 percent. The larger the data set the more the savings. Speaker 4: Gotcha. Yeah and but there's other tools that I, the team build so GitHub already has a command line tool. But GitLab, I use GitLab as well. GitLab, at least I don't have the GitLab command line tool, if they have one, I haven't looked. But I wanted the team to build custom tools based on the things that the orchestrator was doing on a regular basis. And I think this is kind of what Heath was getting at and what Tim was getting at and potentially others. It's like, okay, you have this bot network that's going and doing all of this stuff. everything that they do on a repetitive basis, I want you to go and that- that will optimize the queries and the responses that you're doing to gather the information that I've asked you to gather. And, you know, relatively quickly, you're going to start saving, every day you're going to start saving, you know, 10, 15, 20% tokens on those things that you're doing. Speaker 1: There's a lot here. Speaker 4: back it up, back up the knowledge to an external source just in case. Speaker 1: How do you go about doing that? Do you tell it to do that and trust that it's or what are you, is it taking those the files on each of the bots computers? Speaker 4: The bots know where to store because their system prompt tells them to create a file or a series of a folder with a series of markdown files or or other data files, like I'm having it build actual programs. And so it knows about its own storage. And I, initially what I did is I just set it up with my Google connection. And when I said, I want to make a- Google Drive? Speaker 1: I said, what's that? And so, sorry to interrupt you. You're saying that, I just have Grokbot installed. So are you telling me that I need to go into Grokbot, create a connector to my Google Drive, Then go to my chief of staff and say, all bots must save all of their files to this folder on my Google Drive. Speaker 4: Yeah, so I just set it up to say, every night at midnight, just do a backup of your current data files to Google Drive. And then I can go to my Google Drive app, and I can see all my Google, Google Drive app, Speaker 1: and I can see all my files, new folders and files. OK, so we've gone one way. you completely what happens what would have to happen for Speaker 4: noticed in the Grokbot app at one point, and it may may have disappeared, but they had a button that you could say upgrade the Grokbot computer. And I thought, well, surely it's going to keep all the files. And I hit that and boom, everything was gone. The bots knew their system prompt, but they lost the conversation history that they had been keeping in those markdown files. And I thought, well, you know, okay, that must have been a system glitch, right? And so I went another couple of weeks and then SpaceX A, I pushed out an update to Grokbot and it did it again. and I thought, well, okay, that's the last time. Like fool me once, you know, you're a fool, fool me twice, I'm a fool. And so that was when I set up the backup. Speaker 1: So that backs up the files in the bot- does that file set include like the bot's icon and the system prompt for that bot? Where do you save? Speaker 4: No, I haven't actually dug into that level yet. I want to. But what it did is it named the folder that it put all of its files on in my Google Drive. It named it with the bot's name. And so if they get wiped out. then I can just say, hey, previously in a previous life, you know, you saved type of information. But I'll tell you, it was not just a few text files. It was, in some cases, hundreds of K to megabytes, but I had them building some software as well on their machine, so Speaker 1: some of that might be the disk allocation. That makes sense. Now, are you using like Codex or Claude Speaker 4: or Claude Code below Grokbot? I am not on the Grokbot machines. At least I told them to do that. I just just use a grock account so they would have to use grok build but I think they're downloading, you know, compilers and things like that as needed Speaker 1: Just just the grok bot. I got you brother. All right. Well, why don't Speaker 4: You might be on Speaker 8: Yeah, sorry about that. Hi everyone. Speaker 1: Sounds good. Speaker 8: Cool. So this week, let's see, I actually, because I've been dual booting with Windows and Omarchy for well basically using Omarchy, not actually going into Windows. So I've been using mainly Omarchy and then decided to wipe everything. So terabyte drive, which was split with Windows of 600 gigs and the rest to Omarchy. I couldn't grab any more from Windows to increase Omarchy because you have to go boot with USB and do a whole disk reorganization. So I was like, a bugger. So I did an update. And then basically when I actually installed Omarchy the first time, I was trying to get DaVinci Resolve working all these things. I started at like all my installed apps, plugins and everything like that. So I had a file with all this information. So when I booted, when I did the wipe and installed RC, was it 4.5, what's it version two now I think. But anyway, so I fed it back the file and it basically put my computer back to what it was. And then obviously I had a backup of my original Omarchy Windows somewhere else, but it's pretty crazy. If you just start like recording what you're doing on your computer, you can basically have it back up as it was. just by feeding AI the text file of how you did it, and what apps there were, and plugins, and keyboard layout, screen layout, you know, the whole lot. It's Speaker 1: all you there. Yeah, I think we might have lost. Speaker 4: No, sorry. Just. I'm still here. I've heard, I think I've heard you mentioned Da Da Vinci-Resolve a couple times. Could you just give me a summary of what that is. you know, how, how, you're talking about being able to restore back to where you were. Um, um. And, and, and, that people, uh, the people that I, that I with on a regular basis outside of X. Let me put it I don't think people quite realize how dependent we have become on a realize how changes the game entirely because I now view every machine that I touch as a portal into my information. My information is outside the machine. I back everything up. and the machine is just a portal. And so I can wipe a hard drive, grab a new machine and go with it. How are you viewing that differently now compared-to maybe how you may have operated just even just a few months Speaker 8: Oh yeah, I mean it's totally different, right? Say on Windows, if you had to re-install, you're gonna be clicking through, I mean, you could use PowerShell, but it's pointless because there's so much work. So people should actually think about their main machine. If your machine had to die right now, how would you know what was on there, what plugins, I guess you. You could go back to your chats and like, had a bot that just fills the file up for you as you say, install a fresh new machine. That's basically your restore point for a perfect machine. Speaker 8: You could use a backup, but what I've installed so many plugins and stuff on the old, like the 60 days of using the version 4.. The CPU is going and the GPU is going when I'm opening, you know, IDEs and all that stuff. So on the new install, I'm like, okay, I'm going to, because the install file, I can kind of like just point to a section and it say, okay, while install these apps, skip this, do my screen, all that, it doesn't actually just push everything at once. So it's kind of controlled in a way too. Speaker 8: Either this version is much faster or I just had way too much shit running on the old Omarchy and then also because I have I have Hermes on a gateway so I don't actually connects through SSH to my actual dev machine So everything was as it was I just installed Hermes and then connected to the gateway and I had all my chats and history and you know everything was And then all the files I just kind of pulled from my backup the ones I needed fast computer really without all the shit like running on the actual dev machine. So I'd kind of use another computer to do the workloads and stuff. Like GitHub projects and all that kind of stuff. And then yeah, so during time as well, I've also put some skill files on a repository so I can, because I don't use just anyone's skills, I create my own and then I have another agent that kind of updates that skill. So, I want to see the changes so I can go back and stuff. So, I've got skills kind of, what do you call it? It's not hyperlinked, but it's just word for it. Anyway, it's linked to a different folder and it reads the skills skills that way and stuff. So, because our background is in infrastructure and redundancy and all that, so kind of that's I'll make sure everything can like if you took my laptop away from me today I'd probably be able to get it up and running within, if it gave me a new one I wouldn't have to worry about stuff going missing and all that kind of stuff. So I would say that's a good thing. Speaker 4: I need to do regardless of what machine and where I'm at, you know, as long as I have connectivity. And that has shifted tremendously. And all of these things are getting to be just prompts that you can feed into your network. So, you know, I look at the future very differently than I used who are still kind of, you know, maybe from earlier 2026, you know, or maybe 2025 kind of thinking is is kind said is being able to then just adapt to things that happen. If from that perspective, I know you've got a ton of stuff running your bot network and things like that. Where are you with this concept of like if something catastrophic were to happen with your existing bot network, do you feel prepared with being able to restore things and get things back or is that something you're concerned with? Speaker 1: That's not something I worry about whatsoever. I'm an infrastructure without trade. Number one, the way that Larry works is that he has a private repo. and every night he pushes pushes up to the repo, no secrets or things like that that. But the way that I have Larry working is instead of keeping a global conversation or just right there in the home directory, I put a symlink in so that all of the Claude Code stored in the project directory itself. Then that project directory is a GitHub repo. Then when it commits, here's a secret that a lot of people don't know. When you do a commit and you say, here's the commit updated graphic on web page. That little comment can be paragraphs and paragraphs. Speaker 1: of Claude Claude Code for me, when he commits up to save himself, it's kind of a backup kind of a database, he about something in another project, enegger he knows the first place he looks is on local disk. The next place is he does a grep on that project to see if he's optimized to do recall. Because all of our harnesses and all of our Codex, and we all create these eyes, they all have perfect memory. The trick is how you get them to recall the right information at the right time for the right project, for the right everything else. I can lose my machine. It I don't even think about the backups. It pushes up to an estuary bucket. Speaker 1: My entire mixed thread world is probably $19 a month for everything. If I had to restore, I think the egress is a little bit more expensive, but for 19 bucks, up to back lays up to a bucket is is a very simple thing for me. Each of my applications live on a machine that's automatically pushed up., so I've got Larry backed up, I am in storage. Used to have terabytes and terabytes and ter. Now I have nothing. And I like it. Speaker 4: Wow, that's amazing. Speaker 1: Hey, I've got to go help a family member and I hope I can be back. but if I can't, I wish everybody a great Sunday. No emergency, but it's something that's important to me and my family, and I'm gonna put you on mute. If I don't come back, I wish everybody a happy Sunday. Speaker 4: Awesome, Fred. Thank you so much. Cheers, Fred. Cheers, everybody. I completely understand. I'll tell you that, you know, just thinking about, $20 a month, you know, the cost of things in some ways is just dropping or the capabilities expanding and the cost is not.. And, you know, I hope we see that spread beyond technology as well. But it's just amazing. I was thinking though, DevSec, you probably have a little bit of source code here and there. How are you sleeping at night? Obviously, you're using source control, but with everything that you've got going on, how are you dealing with that and what's the latest on your project? Speaker 5: Yeah. Hey A few things. Yeah, GitHub how you commit likeable is up, but I am posting nuggets here and there and below materials and everything will also get written up in about put out, there is no completely open source. And but one thing that I've never you know, I've never anticipated as how much goes into building a tablet. Speaker 5: There's so much much goes into that. And it also bringing up, with the different chipsets, bringing all the graphic acceleration and everything else. That becomes that that's challenging, right? But it was a, you know, we're getting somewhere. But when this is done, it will be a really good testament to the community for what you can do. And your tablet, and then at one point your tablet and your large desktop will be able to sync with each and do these remarkable things. So that's going on. But I, I did want to share one thing with you, you guys, which is the Grokbot Workplug. Yeah. Speaker 4: Hold that thought for just one second. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I've been noticing my feed has been filling more and more and more working on hardware, working on bringing Omarchy to hardware. And I'm just thinking that we should probably do a space with that kind of as a theme. And so if you know people and I'm talking to everyone in the in the space after it's recorded. If you know somebody that's working on something like this, I'm kind of interested to hear the experience because it's. there are some aspects to it that is very different than just having a machine that you write an application, you run the application, it Speaker 5: very interesting and there are a couple of people I know that here that are actually doing, you know, phones and other stuff as well. It would it would be it would be good to get everybody's, you know, the takeaway on things of how they're doing it. But yes, there is a lot going on, right on right? And the most frustrating part is, is the the custom drivers, the drivers is because you know, some chipsets, you know, you will be able to you will be able to just run it and be done with it and everything will work. But what's happening right now is a, lot of the tablet manufacturers, a lot of the the device manufacturers in general, what they do is they're starting to limit how much you can access to that chipset. Speaker 5: So the challenge with that is that it creates this bottleneck of, well, this is the device that I bought for Tinkr with it. But on the other side, you look at it is. There is that trusted execution environment, right, that you need, you know, these device companies have to adhere to. Like Snapdragon has a very, strict rules about stuff like that, of what you can do. And this is why the American versions of tablets and such, it's very difficult to do a bootloader on lock is because of the terms and conditions that this chip manufacturers put on them. So that reverse engineering and open sourcing of the driver and stuff like that is where it becomes really complicated. But happy to share some thoughts into projects going on right now simultaneously, and all of them are going to come to the community. But I do want to, well, I kind of wanted to share a workflow with you guys that I do with Grokbot that. That I actually think it's going to be very good that that can help you guys is What I do is with Grokbot is I have my chief of staff on the Grokbot side right. and that person is basically the orchestrator. That bot is is the orchestrator. Then what I do is I go to Google Drive. you guys can do this and it's very effective. Speaker 5: Create one folder called Agent Inbox, and I'll do a write-up on this too. In that Agent Inbox, what you do is you put all the different different model providers that you work with. Duet, Codex, on and on and on. So then what you do is you go, you instruct every those agents for once that to monitor their respective folders for MD files, right? Or files coming in, in general. Then what I do is, then what I do is I go to my orchestrator, which is Grokbot, and I'm trying to get a brainstorming going on with all these different models about a or a research that I'm trying to do, can you help me with this? So essentially, I'll give them the instructions, and I say, write the instructions, and send it to Duet, dot, codex, whoever else. So what, what Grokbot does is it creates an MD file and drops into the similar to the Google Drive, Google Drive folders of the respective they automatically do it and, MUSE and all these guys will pick up and pick up the MD file, read the instructions and carry out their research. Then what happens is once they're done, they put that into a completed folder. Then Grokbot brainstorming of infinite amounts of models without spending, you know, crazy money on tools and stuff like that. Because essentially what happens is let's say you have three models that you need, all you need is a Google drive, set up your Google drive, give them access to their respective folders, have an orchestrator drop the file in there. And the next thing you know, everybody's brainstorming with everybody else. Speaker 4: Yeah, that's a concept that came up with my human team at my employer just this last week is talking about token, not token efficiency, sorry, talking about model, I don't want to say bias because that tends to put a negative spin on it, but model development where, you know, different models, even just switching the reasoning level, dramatically changes their personality, you could say. And I truly think that, and I'll tell you, I think there was this Singularity.net, which has been around for, I don't services and then a because of their training, whether it will probably see less focus on general purpose and a little bit more focus on here's some general purpose but here's some more customized, you know. frontier-level AI that you can then have multiple things looking at the same project. And I think that's going to be incredibly powerful. So, yeah, I really appreciate that perspective. And the thing is, you know, you amaze me because you've you've got all these projects going on. But then I look down the list of people that have spoken today and people that I see posting. Speaker 4: there's just so much potential that I think everybody's working on lots of different things. So we only have a couple more minutes that all need to be going, but- Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm back, I wanna Speaker 4: I think you wanted to come back up and had potentially another topic. So take it away and let's see where we go with this. Speaker 3: Actually, I hit the request button by accident, I'm sorry. Speaker 4: Oh, no worries at all. I just wanted to make sure that you had an opportunity. But I mean, this has been an incredible space and I did something a little bit different. I did have more people stay up on stage in case there was a need for, let's say, some crosstalk. And so, Speaker 1: what did that feel like? Speaker 4: Yeah, that has helped out in because, you know, by the time you and then somebody else starts speaking and then you're like, oh, if I could just comment on that. Yeah. So Speaker 1: . I think it was great. It's just a fact. Maybe that's why you're here. You got Speaker 4: all the big ideas. So great. Fred, I'm glad you're back. And I think unless somebody throws their hand up right now, I think we've I think we're good. We've run the course. Yeah Speaker 1: Yeah, I think we missed this again again. Hopefully he'll be back in that his so you know, his two cents and we miss him. Wish him well. Thank you for being here, Joe. You're like a colleague friend now. It's amazing amazing what this Omarchy community community has put together, put so many people together and we really appreciate the superstar listeners out there and the participation by so many people. We've got regulars now. I feel like we've got a little bit of momentum and it's all about people learning. Speaker 1: That's it. So as we say every week, help an old lady across the street. When you get her over there, put Omarchy on her laptop. Thanks, Joe. Thank you. Speaker 4: Thanks everyone. I really appreciate it. Bye bye. # EP 09: Sunday Builders Club: The One Where GitHub Locked the Door Part of "Omarchy! Omarchy! Omarchy!", the weekly Omarchy X Space. Every Sunday, 3pm EST, live on X. - Recorded: Sunday, November 8, 2026, 3pm EST - Length: 109 minutes - Film (Sunday Builders Club, 5 min): https://omarchyspaces.com/films/ep09.mp4 - Speakers: 11+ - Tuned in: 51 - Hosts: @NixFred, @calledtocnstrct - Listen: https://x.com/i/spaces/1POMageBKnyqye - Post on X: - Web: https://omarchyspaces.com/ep/09/ ## Summary (as posted on X by @NixFred) Omarchy Sunday Builders Club, Episode 9: The One Where GitHub Locked the Door This recap was drafted from the Space recording while Fred writes his own. His post will replace it. Sunday 2026-11-08, 3pm EST. 1 h 49 min. 51 tuned in. Listen: https://x.com/i/spaces/1POMageBKnyqye The film: https://omarchyspaces.com/ep/09/#film Host: @NixFred. Co-host: @calledtocnstrct THIRD TIME LUCKY Fred turned on video this week and listeners lost the audio, twice. He killed both Spaces and started a third without video, and that one worked. Thanks to everyone who kept coming back. LOCKED OUT Friday night Larry told Fred his GitHub account was suspended: "violation of terms of service", no reason, no detail. Four years, about 400 repos, most of them private. Everything was also local, on the NAS (a VM on the MS-S1 running Proxmox), in Proxmox Backup, and up in Backblaze for about $25 a month. He was reinstated Sunday morning, and DHH jumped in to help. ASK THE COMMENTS Fred posted the lockout and got 200-plus replies (Gitea, Forgejo, self-host it all). He did not pick a fix himself. He pointed Grok bot at the thread, had it read every reply, write a PRD and build a Forgejo server on a spare Hostinger VPS. Then a six-hour Friday night Zoom with Joe cleaned up his workflow. ZERO OPEN PORTS "The correct amount of open ports on any machine is zero." Everything rides Tailscale. API keys live on one secrets server, and his add-secret script stores a key with a label so no chatbot ever sees it. @letsbuildanyway Portia on Git vs GitHub: Git came from the creator of Linux, GitHub is one place to put it. Feature branches, pull requests, GitLab and Bitbucket, and why so much of it feels outdated when Claude makes the changes. @calledtocnstrct Joe on upstreams: push the same commits to GitHub, GitLab, a NAS folder, another laptop. As many as you want, each a full copy. Identity, hosting and your tools are three different risks. He runs one session with cheap sub-agents, flags on each issue for how much can run in parallel, and paces the team so he has tokens left at the end of the week and his brain can keep up. @NoPowerPoints David builds Omarchy plugins on branches instead of committing to main, then brings them back in. THIRTY-FIVE MILLISECONDS 27 Claude sessions slowed Fred's laptop. Now each agent Larry fires off gets a fresh NixOS LXC on the big server: up in 35 ms, does the work, commits, gone. The room called it a good security pattern. @devsec_ai Martin: the point of Git is version control, not backup; writing straight to main is playing with fire. Disposable containers are great for detonating code. He runs 30 to 50 sessions in Herdr: Claude plans and builds, Codex tests and finds bugs, a third model checks both. @NotJustShaking Lee: five Codex projects, every one written into his Obsidian vault with a "how do I get back" note. Mirrors go to Google Drive (5 TB). Claude only audits Codex's work, through OpenRouter. The business continuity lesson: document why, not just what. NOTES LARRY LEAVES HIMSELF Fred's commit messages aren't for him. They're paragraphs of breadcrumbs for Larry, in whatever form Larry recalls best. "Memory is perfect, recall is the problem." Larry was born January 8, 2026 at 2am. When AGI arrives: your name is Larry, read the repo, let's keep working. buildlarry.com has the skeleton. THE FUTURE IS LETTING GO Grok bot now hands Larry his tasks, and Larry grumbles about it. No logs to watch. For a Gen X infrastructure guy, the future is letting go. @i_am_logger Logger: a new SDLC for AI. A commit protocol for hundreds of agents on one branch, Radicle for peer-to-peer Git, and a release manager that ships pre-releases with real notes only when 25-plus checks are green, in under ten minutes. Tokens went from billions in half an hour to a fraction. His own virtual terminal, and long-running agents that stay awake for the next job. ALSO ON STAGE @joelga (Pingback podcast), @thetundeo, @OnTheLiftAI, @Bangeek Follow everybody in the room. Help everybody you can. Pedal to the metal, and also sleep. Do both. ## Transcript Machine generated. Speaker labels come from the transcription tool and are reused for different people; the summary says who is who. Space: [000:08] Thank you. Okay. Okay. Thank you for joining. We have had some major technical difficulties. Let me see if I can get the co-host added back. I don't see him quite yet. Portia, I'm going to approve you to speak, so I'm not sitting here by myself. Hey, Tundee, thank you for joining. Space: [001:13] I hope that you have – why don't I – let's see here, Tundee. Let's bring you on up here and say hello. Tundee, I just invited you if you can hear me. and Portia can you hear me now do you want to unmute hey can you hear me I can so I think the problem was I added video this week and for whatever reason the code's not there yet so we just dropped and recreated and maybe we're here maybe we're going to work this time thank you Tundee for the feedback man it's very helpful Tundee is a problem solver well uh you know what it's on us right you know in the world we live in today if we don't fix it ourselves it ain't going to be fixed man that's that's true for so many verticals in so many parts of our lives you know not just computers uh christopher i did promote you to co-host but i don't know that it's working Space: [002:16] And I don't see Joe at all. So, folks, thanks for joining. This week we're going to talk about something that happened to me that could happen to you. My GitHub was suspended due to a very vague terms of service violation. And it caught me flat-footed, to tell you the truth. I don't know, send a chill down my spine because I depend on GitHub. I do have everything local. I've got 400 and something projects in about four years. And it really scared me. And Portia, we talked earlier in the one before, if you would go ahead and unmute. And we talked about, you know, I ask you, what if, you know, I feel like I do things amazingly wrong. I've got folders everywhere. I've got, and I'm trying to clean my act up. As a professional developer, Portia, when you want to create a new application, do you get on your laptop and just build out the basics? Space: [003:18] Or do you have a process flow that you do every time to keep things settled? What do you do? Thank you for asking me this question. And I'm glad we have a professional here, which is Tundi. So, Tundi, I hope I don't say anything that will offend your developer ears. A lot of my processes have eroded this past year. So Git was actually created by the creator of Linux. Yeah, Linux for sure. Now, people mistake, he did not create GitHub, he created Git. No, but that was a marketing thing of the people who created GitHub. So they wanted people to make the mistake of thinking that they created Git. Because they wanted, many people were using Git, but they were locally hosting it or they were hosting it themselves. And so GitHub, that was definitely a branding move. But getting to your question, Git. Let me give you one more prompt. Space: [004:19] Okay. I'm sorry to interrupt you. And I'm going to show some transparency here. people put me on a pedestal on this thing and it's very not earned. I didn't even understand what the difference between Git and GitHub was until about a week ago. So let's slow down and maybe explain what Git is so that I can lock it in. Because all I know is it's an interface to a repo. Is that correct? Git, oh my God, Git is more complicated than it needs to be. So it's something called version control. it's person control and before git and this is something tundi would know and not me i'm trying to get him up here to speak but he's shy git i'm looking at git alternatives because like so there was vcs i think i'm gonna mess this up so before git there was svn so it was svn and you know how you're working on like a an essay with a bunch of co-workers Space: [005:20] on Google Docs and you have like version one, version two, version three. Well, Git solves that problem. But the thing is, like a lot of this seems outdated now and it sucks because I know it took me about a good three years to learn Git. So how you used to use it professionally is that everyone had a branch. So you would have something called a feature branch. and you would work on your feature branch. You would take your feature branch on Git, just Git, and then you would upload it to GitHub. Everyone has access to GitHub, and then you would have something called a pull request. So everyone would look at your branch and the code, and if they think that it's correct, then your feature branch becomes the main branch. that is very basic there's a lot of freaking dark magic when it comes to git like um i used to use something called ref log so if you delete something from git as long as you know the hash Space: [006:27] you can go back to it you could make changes to you could change the timeline of your the timeline of your different branch. It was way too difficult for what it should be. Okay. GitHub and GitLab. And I think there was something called, God, I think it was Bit. It can't be BitTorrent. No. There used to be two. Not BitTorrent. BitBucket. Jump in here, Tony. BitBucket. I think you mean BitBucket? Yes, BitBucket. Thank you. Yeah. But I'm sorry, I don't want to sound too ignorant. But about 13 or 14 years ago, GitHub wasn't the only game in town. You had GitLab, you had Bitbucket, and you probably had another company. And so they all used the protocol Git. But there are a way that you can save your repo, save your code, and work with others. Space: [007:29] And then GitHub basically had MarketLead. And I think after GitHub, it's GitLab. But GitLab is different because you can also like self-host with GitLab. And GitLab has a lot of, it has a lot of CICD features out of the box that took GitHub, which is GitHub Actions, years to implement. I got you. Way too. And so it's so complicated that these days, I'm not even in the commit, to answer your other question, I'm not in the command line that often these days. Like I'm not manually using Git. I'm just using Claude to make changes. And so I think a lot of this infrastructure is outdated. And your problem that you had is interesting twofold. Number one, I mean, for me personally, I've had a friend who's had problems who was also kicked off of GitHub. That is unheard of. And number two, Claude, not too long ago, actually came up with their own alternatives for GitHub because they have so many PR pull requests. Space: [008:40] They have hundreds of thousands of changes they're making per day that GitHub breaks and Git breaks because it was only meant for one change at a time. So your question was really timely and thoughtful. and I'm so glad that you just saw I saw some mentions of some people saying you know self post self post get get EA or is it get a get a something like that and then I saw okay and I saw for Joe or forge something like that and so what happened to me this week was out of the blue I'm working in Larry which is my cloud code personal AI that I've had since January 8th, 2026. And Larry says, hey, Fred, man, you've been locked out of GitHub. I'll go check and see what's going on. And Larry makes some mistakes. So I said, nah, that didn't happen. Like I've never even heard of somebody getting locked out of GitHub. So I went on to the website, typed in Git. Space: [009:42] I go there enough that it just goes straight to my repositories. And lo and behold, it prompts me with the login. And I go, okay, no problem, I'll log in. and I got to log in and it said violation of terms of service. For help, please contact support. That's it. Nothing else. I did get an email that said basically the same. No information, no understanding of like, hey, you did such and such. You overran your API. You posted bad code. You nothing, nothing at all. so I didn't really immediately to me went okay I got it on local I've got where do I have copies of this stuff I've got it on NAS so my brain immediately said let's just play it out that I never get back into that repo or my login again and I never see my code again and I've got about 400 rough and tumble repos but most of them are I think over half of them are Space: [010:42] private because if I do anything even like just a little drip of something with a little bit of an idea, it's just automatically repo private just to save that idea nugget for later. So it went through my mind, okay, I might have to restore from the NAS, which is literally just a virtual machine on my Menace Forum MS-S1, 128 gig unified running Proxmox. It also has a VM4 with about 600 gig that backs up my everything else. And then I also have a separate little Beehive or B-Link machine, 16 gig that runs Proxmox backup with a big, huge hard drive, like a four terabyte hard drive to back up on my VMs. And then from that Proxmox backup physical server, it takes those backups every night or every differential when it happens, and it shoves it up into an S3 bucket on Backblaze. I've got probably four terabytes of data in my house. Space: [011:43] And all of that backed up to Backblaze is approximately 25 bucks a month, which is like mind-blowingly crazy that it's that cheap. I do understand that when I egress it, if I were to have to egress it or restore something, I think it's like 12X more expensive to pull it out, which is their business model. And I'm okay with that because it's effectively an insurance policy for me. So fast forward, I talked to called to construct. We decided to jump on a zoom for about 20 minutes on Friday night. Not kidding around, no exaggeration. Six hours later, we are still talking. Joe called to construct is so smart and cleaning up my workflows. And I'm happy to share all my stupid mistakes that I make. Since I've been coding and remember I'm an infrastructure guy, not a dev. So we've talked about the advantages of being a dev on cloud code versus the advantages of being an infrastructure guy on cloud code. The infrastructure side, I think, has its advantages from the standpoint of I understand what I'm looking at. Space: [012:49] You know, that's the wrong port to connect to that database, whereas a dev may not know that. But now I'm starting to feel the downside. And the downside is, is that my workflow is is. Is junior at best. I've been pushing directly to Maine through cloud coding code. I, you know, I understand now and I haven't even had the chance to do it that, you know, the correct way is to write issues, which I've never written an issue. So this I'm showing you how I don't know what I'm doing here, folks. I'm just I'm just playing along and learning as I go. So I posted on X and said, posted the picture of my terms of service violation. You're locked out Friday night sometimes. And boy, did all you folks in the whole, the whole Amarchi community. I mean, like, I think it was 200 and something comments. And everybody just dove in and said, here's what you do. Here's what you don't do. Make sure that you do this. And there was people that said I should use Geta. Space: [013:51] There were some people that said I should use Ford Joe, I think it is. It's Forge with a J-O. And it occurred to me to go take a look at these things and to go look at what they are. And I opened a web browser and I stopped. My brain went, don't look. And I said to myself, why would I not go investigate this? And I said to myself, I'm not going to decide this. the people in the comments are going to decide this because they have real experience and I trust every one of them and I can filter out the bad stuff. So using the ability to at GrokBot or at bot, I had already set up a repo or a bot in my GrokBot that told the story, told it to go look at my email that said that you're locked out, go see if I've been updated back in for just by magic of time. I was reinstated this morning somehow. Space: [014:51] And the coolest thing about that is I wasn't on my computer because it pretty much shut me down not having my GitHub. And we can talk about that. And I'd love to hear your stories. So Larry said, yep, you are locked out. And I turned the bot and I went to the highest level of my post where I went to say that I got locked out of GitHub. and DHH jumped in and helped me. I get to talk to him infrequently. And man, when he splashes in a room, things happen. And that's the fun about it. I don't poke him for stuff. I just, if he reaches out to me, I'm responsive. If he doesn't, I'm not going to go bother him. So I was reinstated. So I pointed my Git bot at the top root of my statement Friday night that said that I got banned out, that I'm locked out. And everybody, I mean, I think it's 200 comments, goes through and goes, here's what you do. Space: [015:53] You need to do this. You need to do that. And so I looked through them enough to know that I needed to follow everybody's help. So I had GrockBot go just scan the entire repo, or not the repo, scan the entire conversation on X. and I said, I want you to build out whatever they say to my VPS, which is XYZ over at XYZ. We'll call it Hostinger. I've got a free machine that I don't use much. We can talk about infrastructure later. I have infrastructure on just about every different platform you can think of, not meaning like a bunch of VPSs, but like I have VPS, and I have local Proxmox and I have local machines. And if you know of a new place to put stuff, I'm working on some fly.io stuff and some flux.dev stuff that I'd love to show you at any rate. So I had a VPS available Space: [016:55] and I turned GrokBot onto the post that I got blocked out and I told him to build a PRD and go ahead and go build it. So the cool thing is I learned maybe a couple months ago, and I highly recommend you do this, is on a VPS somewhere, I have what's called an invisible secret server. And all of my servers, by the way, have zero. Nothing I touch the Internet has any port open, period. The correct amount of open ports on any machine that you use is zero. Anything else is incorrect. So when I tailscale everything, it doesn't matter if I'm in Starbucks or if I'm at home, everything works the same. My workflow doesn't change where I am. So in physical is a server, very low footprint that allows you to, it's kind of like one password except for API keys and secrets. And so you can give each of your machines and all of my machines, and I'm being very open here, and I realize there's some security, There's some security risks that I take sharing everything, but I'm coding in public, making mistakes, and I'm just going to take the risk. Space: [018:01] So all of my machines have an unphysical client. Omarchi has an official version of it. It's easy to find. And so I wrote, or when I say I wrote, I don't write crap when I talk about it. So I talked about having a script on all of my machines called AdSecret. And all AddSecret does is give me the ability to add. I type in AddSecret. It prompts me and says, what's the secret? And it says, what's the label for it? And so it never appears in any of my chatbots. So all of my machines, all of my chatbots, ClaudeCode, Codex, GrokBot, everybody knows that the physical server up there has all the places and information that needs to go. So when Grapbot decided to help me build my repo because I was locked out of GitHub, I said, go up to the VPS server. You've already got the Hostinger API key up in physical. Space: [019:02] And in fact, I've kind of got it to the point where Cloud Player, Hostinger, and probably about 15 other services have the API key. So that way I keep my cloud code clean. GrokBot doesn't have anything. And it's kind of nice that when my Larry starts to do something, he'll announce and go, well, I've already got everything I need. And he kind of knows he's been trained. I'll give him, I'll talk to him for a couple of minutes and I'll say, here's what I want. And then he goes, okay, let me take a look. And he goes, I got everything I need. I got a couple of questions. And then he does ask user questions and says recommended. And nine times out of 10, I take the recommended. So the coolest thing about this whole journey was that But I sat there on GrokBot last night and effectively just told it, go check the comments section on my post and look at what people are saying to do and let's discuss it here. And so out of all that, I now this morning have a Forjo, I think that's how you say it, Forjo server up on one of my hostingers getting backed up to certain places. Space: [020:11] and what I learned was that it never occurred to me that if GitHub went offline or for some reason I got nuked and they didn't like that I put up there, I've been using it for four years. Never really heard about people getting banned. You know, Facebook, all that, a different idea, different universe. I don't have Facebook, so don't look for me there. But I've never heard of anybody getting blocked out of GitHub, so I didn't really consider it as a risk. So I took it for me to mean, all right, this is a friction point and potentially a very deadly one. So I've got to start looking at all the different dependencies that I have on my entire Internet footprint, where it comes to development, where it comes to doing my work, where it comes to doing my personal financials, whatever it is. So today I'd like to talk about with folks and call me and Chris, you guys jump in and help me here so I can get a drink of water. Like, what is the lesson to be learned about self-hosting? Space: [021:12] And what do we need to do to, you know, I have to go back through all of my different services now and figure out where they're going to get me. And the one that's screaming in my head the loudest is Google Authentication, which I don't know how to get off of. Other than just not doing it and having one password for everything, which kind of sucks. Can I ask a question? Sure. This whole issue to me sounds weird. and I want smarter people to correct me. Well, you're going to have to have somebody else then. Oh, my gosh, Fred. Don't say that. It's weird to say there is self-hosting solution because Git, I think in most VPSs, you have it there. So I don't understand what is another service adding that Git doesn't give you Because even if you were using Git locally along with GitHub, then you shouldn't lose anything. But if this is a problem of collaborating with others, then that's also an interesting conversation. Space: [022:16] So I kind of don't get the need for more software when Git does all of the versioning and saving for you. So I get 15 to 20 PRs and issues of data process. So those just halted. I think there's another aspect of this, though, too. A little hot. A little hot. Back up the microphone a little bit. Okay. Will do. Hold on just a second. Is that better? A little more. Okay. All right. So one of the things that you're referring to here is access to a resource that you've put up on the Internet that you're collaborating with other people. All right. That's GitHub. But then you touched on authentication. And that is a critical piece because that is your identity. That's how you identify with this service, GitHub, and other services. Space: [023:18] And then there's a third thing, though. and that is your ability to do work or do the work that you do with your current uh workflow with with how you have your tools set up and so i think these are in a way kind of three different issues that we all have to deal with when we're building and and ideating and collaborating with people that we want to collaborate with. And so I don't want to get into all of those necessarily in detail, but I think it's something that we do have to keep on our radar and be thinking about. And maybe one of the most critical is what we started out talking about, which is Git itself without the hub at the end, right? Because Git is a tool that you're using locally, and it's a tool that can talk to GitHub or talk to GitLab or talk to these other service providers, Space: [024:19] but they're all service providers. They all require an identity and they can all shut down that identity. And for potentially random reasons or potentially even they have an outage, they have a hack and they lose the data, something like that can happen. We all We all know that those things can happen. So the question is, at the most basic level, how can you protect yourself from these, let's say, catastrophes, whether they're at the identity level or whether they're at the hosting level or whether they're at the, you can get into politics and hacking, ransomware and all of those things. So the question is, how do you protect yourself from that? And I believe what it really comes down to is understanding how Git, the technology, works. Because what you can do is you can actually set up multiple upstreams. Space: [025:22] So you can have your project locally on your disk. you can have your own file storage on another computer or on a you know a nas type device or even just a folder on a different hard drive within the same machine and you can set that up as an upstream and so let me ask you a question here so um and again i show my warts um i'm an infrastructure guy, not a developer, I'm learning. So what's the right process when you have an idea and you want to build an app? And for me right now, and this is pathetic, and I already see how wrong it is just by saying it, but I'm going to tell you anyway. Whatever machine I'm on, I go to projects and create a folder. And then I get far enough along, I tell it to make a repo, make it private, do all the things. And then later, if I move to another machine, I just clone it down. So I know that's terribly wrong and I'm guilty of it and I'm okay with that. Space: [026:26] But what's the proper way? Should I go to the same server every time, use Herder and only go to one place? What's the right way to do this? Well, what are you trying to do with it? Like proper really depends on is it an internal app? Make code that I put on the internet, basically. Oh, okay. Can you have a sharing issue? And please, anyone, just tell me if I'm wrong. But I mean, if you're creating code for Omachi, then you're not the only person using the code. And so Omachi, is everyone using GitHub when they're releasing a feature or they're using another service? I see 90% of the people that I see using GitHub. I see some GitLab out there. But I believe for the most part in my little corner of the Internet on X that I see is mostly GitHub. So I don't understand how, and please, people smarter than me, interrupt me. I'm not, so where is the project hosted, Omachi? I assumed it was GitHub. You mean Omachi has like the highest level, the actual? Space: [027:29] Yeah. It's on GitHub. I've put some PRs in. So here's the issue. Here's one of many issues that we're talking about. If you stop using GitHub, then if I'm not mistaken, you won't be able to contribute to the Omachi project, which is another problem. Yeah. Let me let anyone else smarter than me, please chime in. Well, so yes, you're right in one sense that GitHub is the public portal, so to speak, to get to the source code for Amachi. However, that doesn't mean that that's the only place that the source code is actually hosted, which is the key point I'm trying to get to when I'm talking about upstream. When you talk about upstream, you have to look at this as like a graph. And so you have your local copy of the source code, but then you can say, I want GitHub to be an upstream. Space: [028:33] So when I do a push and a commit, sorry, the other way around, a commit and a push, it pushes it up to GitHub. But then you can turn around and say, but I also have an identity and an account on the public GitLab. Let me create a repo over there and make it an upstream. and then I can take the same commits that I've already made and push them to the GitLab. Now I'm getting there. Yeah, I'm getting there. Yeah, so that's what I'm getting at. So then you can even turn around and have your NAS folder that you've mapped as a local drive on your machine, and you can just make, you can initialize a repo using just the Git command, not having to log into GitHub, not having to log into GitLab. You can just create a repo, which is just a folder, which happens to have a .get hidden folder within it. And then you can upstream your code into that NAS just by saying commit and push. Space: [029:35] Okay, so you can push to that upstream. So you can have as many upstreams as you want. And your local folder could be an upstream for another computer that you have that you might want to take when you go on trips. So you have your desktop and you don't take that on trips, but that can be an upstream to your laptop that you take on trips. So you can build, it's basically a graph of anything that's downstream does a commit and then a push to its upstream. And that upstream may be an intermediary where you can then get and sorry, you can then push those same commits up to upstreams. Now, this is different than forking a project. This is literally just the project itself and having having replicate on on different storage mediums and different services. So that's a way to give yourself that backup. You can have your own machines. Space: [030:36] You can have the public or private repos on GitLab, public or private on GitHub. And, you know, Google Cloud, you can have your own private Git repository. Any cloud provider is going to give you the ability to have a Git repository that you upstream and you just commit and push your code to. Okay, question for you here. So you're telling me that I've been working on whatever laptop I'm on, whatever host I'm on, and I've been commit pushing to GitHub. So what I think I hear you saying, and I do not go into a terminal and type commit push. I don't do that. Larry does all that for me. Are you telling me that I can have Larry, whenever I say, Larry, go commit push this, that he automatically, without having to tell him, puts it on GitHub, puts it on Forge on my personal VPS, and puts it on my NAS? And if I can put it on my NAS, which is a VM on Proxmox, Space: [031:39] what is the proper protocol to connect to my Macintosh and to my Linux clients? Is it NFS or is it SMB or something else? Well, okay, so your first question, yes. You know, the answer is yes there. You can have whatever bot technology you're using. execute the command lane tools or whatever MCP calls, however you want to do it, to then upstream push your code changes and then, you know, synchronize however many times you want. Okay, so you can, I have my graph bot do that all the time. I have projects that are on my private GitLab that I do the work and I push there and then, you know, I test it out And then I push it out on GitHub as a more cohesive, you know, project that somebody might actually want to use. Right. I don't want somebody to necessarily grab a version of something that's not quite ready yet. Space: [032:41] So I push it out of GitLab. I test it out and then I push it out to GitHub. So, you know, that's that's the that's the mental model that you want to have. OK, so then my next question is, let's consider the stages of development. development. At first, it's just a bunch of code that I don't even know where it's going. I don't even have a name for it. I do want to back it up, but I'm not necessarily, it hasn't reached the level where it goes to GitHub. So how do I tell Larry, do I literally just say, keep this on the NAS and keep this on my private VPS Forge for now, and then we'll put it on GitHub when I'm ready? What's the gate? Yeah, absolutely. I mean, that's a good way to do it. Now, if you're not that worried about it, you know, you're just playing around with some things and you just want to have a public GitHub, maybe as your resume, right? When you go somewhere, you can say, hey, here, you can see my code. You can see the projects on a building. And it doesn't even have to be software, by the way. You know, it can just be, you can use it to build markdown and presentations and all this kind of stuff. But if you want to have a public presence, it's perfectly fine to Space: [033:45] have your local folder and you just use the git uh you know application to initialize that as a repo um because your local machine is a repo because it can be an upstream or a downstream to any other uh copy of that repo and then to publish that to get github as kind of like a public facing uh resume if you if you want to work at it that way um but you know you asked about protocols, like, you know, do you need to have it as an NFS or whatever, anything that you can talk to that get supports as a communication protocol, you can have as an upstream or a downstream, depending on, you know, which direction you're, you're pushing the code. Okay, so then I understand anything works. What's the proper, like, if I, if I'm talking to people and I say, yeah, I've got SMB on there. Is that like, okay, that's pretty junior. Like what's the proper way to do it at scale? And that's, well, I think that what, you know, Space: [034:46] when you get into proper, it depends on your use case. And I think Portia brought this up as well. You know, it's kind of like, what's your use case? The thing is, if you're wanting to backup code, you don't necessarily need to worry about it, right? You just make it a folder to folder upstream. Um, now if you're wanting to, uh, integrate with other people, you can still do that, but then they have to have access to your same drive storage. So that's when you would want to look at, you know, having a, um, you know, a more public facing, even if it's a private repository, you can have a more public facing like a GitHub or a GitLab, uh, hosted, or you can host your own and open your ports, you know, um, and, and then you're having people connect to the GitLab. Now, when you go to the point where you're saying, I want to plan out several new features, that's when you almost have to have something like a GitLab or a GitHub and some of these others that you've named where they actually have, you know, Bitbucket has Jira. Space: [035:51] And that's where you can create your issues and you can kind of plan into the future. This is the development that we want to do. And then you can subdivide it by who's working on what. And so that's when you get into the project management side of things. But that really doesn't change how you keep your code or keep your project, keep your data backed up. That's more about planning into the future. And that's why people talk about GitHub as something entirely different than Git, where GitHub gives you a place to put your Git data. It also gives you the ability to collaborate. rate. Let me be explicit about my, my ask on, is it NFS? Is it SMB? Is it something else? Let's imagine that I interview with Tundi and his top coding guy. And we, I say, thank you very much, Tundi. You had a great chat and we hang up and Tundi looks at his number one coding person and says, what do you think? And the guy goes, you know, Fred was doing great until he said that Space: [036:51] he uses SMB for his transfer protocol. Like that's the mistake I don't want to make. Yeah, and I don't, I mean, personally, if I interviewed somewhere and somebody was making a decision about whether to hire me based on the storage mechanism or the protocol that I use to store the backup, I would have serious concerns. Now, what I would do, though, is I'd want to crack that storage open. I'd want to look at what's in the GitHub repo and say, what's the quality of this product? Not just in how well the code is written, because, again, AI is probably going to be writing all the code. The question is, what is the point of the code? What problem does it solve? And then maybe looking at the issues and say, what's the forward thinking, the vision of this project? And really, somebody should be focused on that, not on how you store it, because there's probably 100,000 different ways to store a copy of your data. I'm learning that quickly. David, jump in here, man. What do you got? Fred, you're not alone, man. Space: [037:52] This is a complicated subject, and I feel like a complete child around people that have been using Git for years and know every little command and trick to it, you know. But I will say this. I mean, I'm also kind of in the same boat as you. Like, I have a hard time mentally visualizing what the hell is going on with Git and where I'm at in my state and my relation to it, especially regarding GitHub. But what I've, like going back to your kind of like initial concern there, if you have like a side piece of code or project or whatever, I mean, it doesn't cost you anything to run your own Git server and create a little Git project and then just kind of have Larry commit to it. I mean, the manual backup of all that, I mean, you could backup a Git repository just like any other file structure. So I'm not sure if there's a downside to that. One of the things that I've noticed in developing some Amachi plugins over time is that for my own clarity, it's often better to do branch style development where I'm not like always committing to the main origin all the time. Space: [039:06] Guilty. That seems to be, that feels safer to me because it feels like, okay, I've got something off the side. I'm not screwing you know with a mass commit and republish or something and I can kind of like stage myself to get it there that being said I've trusted AI to do that and I've had to tell it more times than not it's like oh I need this to be a branch now the good news is if you do a clone on something and start to work on it you can you can redeclare it as a branch you don't have to start that way and and then kind of push it back uh in in more of a channel but at least you have kind of like a separate space to kind of work with. In my impression, I may be wrong about that. But that's been my experience so far. That's very helpful, man. Yeah. Well, when you start getting into, you know, developing in branches, you know, and and some of the things you can do with like cherry picking commits and all that kind of stuff. There's some some excellent things you can do with get it's incredible. Not only in that you can do Space: [040:10] upstream and downstream you know copies of what you're working on and but then you can also do these uh you know forks and you can also do branching it's really an incredible technology but i'll tell you um the the biggest thing about branches and now you got to get into work trees when you're talking about ai um because you you probably have multiple bots working at the same time on the same project so you get into work trees but when you're talking about branches one of the most powerful things right now is that you can create a branch to try out an AI, you could say like agentic or vibe coded. You can say, create a branch over here. Let's test out this idea. It might be a terrible idea. Let's test it out in a branch, open another branch over here, test out a different idea or the same idea, but implemented in a different way. And you play around with them. And then you say, okay, this works. Let's merge it into main. And that is so powerful. So let me tell you what I've been working on to get around this. And I'd love to Space: [041:15] hear the correction and how, what I can do to make it better. I'm not quite there yet, but what I've figured out is I've got a pretty beefy laptop with 32 gig of RAM, with an i9, with the little 12 gig GPU in it. And it just over time just started crawling and I wasn't doing a lot on it. So of course I asked Larry, what's, why is this machine laggy? And it says, cause you got 27, uh, cloud code sessions open. I'm like, Oh, I guess I did. So the mine, so I, I purchased that MS forum, I guess it's a MS S one 128 gig. At first I put a March on it and it just seemed like it was, I don't want to call it a waste of a machine, but it really, I couldn't push it. So I put Proxmox on it. And then I have an LCX that reshares out the pass-through GPU, and I do a lot of crazy stuff with share. I got a whole site that I share with my close friends to allow them to use my GPU over the internet like it's local. So the thing that I've figured Space: [042:17] out doing, and I'm trying to get it right, and I don't know where I need to go, is that I've created that NAS on the, I call it HEX. Remember, everything's three letters. I call it HEX, and then I created a VM that's called NAS and gave it 600 gigabytes, and that's where I keep all my files. Let me get to the meaty part here. What I've started doing, and this came out of our conversation Friday night, Joe, is that I've got it to where, and it's not working yet, but Larry, when he fires off an agent, he is opening and creating a new LCX, which is LCXs are just Docker containers for Proxmox. He opens it a Nix OS system that already has all the Larry file structure in it, starts cloud code, works on the work, and then as soon as it's finished, it opens up in the working directory, Space: [043:19] does the work that it needs to do, and then as soon as it's finished, commits harry carry, and it's gone. So am I thinking correctly where I want to have an open session and then when the agents go, they fire up a, and literally I measured it, the LCX with quad, with all the things, creation literally is 35 milliseconds. So it's instantly on, starts processing, and then kills itself. Is that, am I going in the right direction or am I, or is this overkill? I mean, from a security standpoint, I'd say, yeah. What's that? From a security standpoint, I'd say, yeah, that's a great idea. Is that something that folks are doing or am I over-engineering it? Yeah, I think it would be good to get some, you know, kind of go around the table and hear, you know, if anyone else is focused on that. I personally don't do that. Like I said, I use work trees. So I'm just using, just, you know, Space: [044:20] running all of the different development efforts in separate work trees on the same hard drive. But then again, my- Work trees solve my problem. So my problem was getting the compute off of my laptop so it doesn't start lagging. I can continue to have 30 sessions open, but when it fires off agents, it's hitting on the monster server versus my laptop. Is that going to be a factor? Well, so that's the funny thing about it. I was just going to mention the tech stack. So I'm actually running on like a 2017 13.3-inch screen Dell XPS with 16 gigs of RAM and a Gen 3 NVMe drive. Like it is not a top-of-the-line machine, but it was extremely cheap. I have a stack of them because I refurbished them. and I can just set it up. And if I need to, I can just take any machine out of the stack of machines that I've been refurbishing and just load this up and run it. Space: [045:22] Because what you get into is you're starting to talk about your tech stack, right? So I'm building primarily using like TypeScript. It loads up, compiles. I can run all of the end-to-end tests. I can run the unit test and not max out that machine. And I can be running multiple workloads on that with no problem at all. And so one of the things that we're going to have to deal with is really looking at what tech stack we're using. Because if you're using, and this is an interesting sideline, is one of the main proponents of the Haskell ecosystem, system, a person that was part or is part of the Haskell organization to further Haskell usage, the company that he runs, they basically announced they were going to be switching to TypeScript because it was taking so long to spin up a new environment. What you were saying, getting a ready environment in less than a second, way less than a second, is critical. But also just being Space: [046:28] able to compile your project if you're building software and being able to run your unit tests and run your automated tests that all has to be fast because ai is going to write the code really really fast so you don't want to have something writing a whole bunch of code and then waiting 12 15 20 50 minutes to uh to run your unit tests and to get a commit on your build server um and and so you you know you you really have to start looking at that and when you were saying that you run, you know, 20, 30, 40 instances of clogged code, I'm running a single instance of Grok build, and then it'll spin off sub agents, and those sub agents are extremely cheap. And so I think just, it's not that there's one right answer, right? But we have to start looking at where's the bottleneck. And so you might optimize one thing, and all of a sudden it exposes another bottleneck that's just down the chain, right? And that's going to be a big Space: [047:29] conversation coming up. So where you store... On that? Yeah, real quick, let me just say, where you store your... How you collaborate, what tech stack you're using, and what your AI build tool is, and your AI models, all of those things are things that we have to take into into account yeah go ahead yeah so the reason i say that that was a pretty good design is because now you have something that's kind of like its own configuration item for the build process or the task process or whatever you're having to do right so if you've got a harness in a dock container that's talking that has permissions to go talk to the language model in another container or elsewhere or whatever i mean that's that's actually a pretty good pattern um i don't know about you guys but i've seen harnesses do funky stuff before um like pulling random things off the internet to to help answer a question or solve a problem um i mean the harness basically becomes like cloud code using a full of harness or open code or whatever i mean they basically become an extension of the Space: [048:32] language model as a keyboard to your system so minimizing the um where it can run and how it can run. I mean, you could put in, you know, you know, some scoped calling around what it can and can't do through, you know, like setting up a hook to say, okay, we're going to do a pre-hook to make sure it doesn't go outside of the project folder it's designated to talk to you or to talk to look anywhere else on the system. But sometimes the experiences you have with AI tools will open your eyes as to what they're capable of doing. And sometimes if you ask it something that it can't figure out within the current project, it may consider the full path to that project folder as viable and start to try to walk up and look for other content, which is dangerous. So containerizing and isolating, I think is a good practice. I would encourage that. The fact that you're getting up in 35 milliseconds is crazy fast, which is, I mean, I wouldn't complain about that at all. Space: [049:36] But then your focus and attention shifts to what is it able to talk to and what other systems is it allowed to talk to as part of your configuration. But for an infrastructure guy, that should be right up your alley. Yeah, that's exactly right. I don't know if I'm doing it because it's right or because I think it's cool from an infrastructure play and it's just fun. And we give you a real quick example, then I'll shut up. But like I'm running I'm I'm running a an Intel Mac. Give you an idea of the day. It's probably a 17 in 2017. And I love it. It works fine. I've got all kinds of flexibility. But I've been using Kiro actually connected Claude to write Rust applications. Well, to compile those for Windows, I need a Windows VM handy, and I have parallels on this. So I actually set up a Windows 11 with a compiler, you know, the dev compiler tools there that it needs. Space: [050:37] And Claude actually wrote a script that is part of the build chain within. It's not like GitLab or anything like that. It's just a script that kind of says, okay, do this, do this, do this. and one of those do this is to start up the VM, copy code in, compile it, bring the results back out and then blow the machine away again. Right. I think we got to go ahead. I'm just saying I'm in line with your approach there. Oh, that makes me feel better. At least I'm wondering if I've got a solution looking for a problem. I see Joel's on here from the Pingback podcast. What do you think, Joel? On mute, brother. Hey, guys. I just hopped in late, so I really have only caught the last few minutes. So I'm going to listen a little bit more before I open my mouth some more. But thanks for the invite, Fred. I'll listen for a little bit. You bet. And Martin Devsek, you were part of the conversation Friday night till late. And I know you're smart. What do you think, man? Give me just one second, actually, if you would. I just want to mention, because I don't think we've brought this up yet. Space: [051:39] But if you have joined the space and this is your first time, you might want to look around. and follow some of the people in this room because even the people that are just listening right now, everyone's building something. Everyone's got an awesome story. So don't forget to look around and follow some people. And then also, if you're working on something that you think might be interesting to this group, go ahead and queue up. Hit that microphone button, and we'll bring you up on stage. Just make sure everything stays cordial. and yeah, back to you, Martin. Hey guys, can you hear me? Yeah, man. All right, awesome. Hope everybody's doing well. So I have mixed, I mean, I agree with all of you on different things here. The, you know, containerization and isolation is a great thing from a security perspective. Disposable containers is a fantastic thing, Space: [052:42] particularly if you want to just detonate a code and play with it and then just get rid of it. So there's a lot of value and less harm in that, right? It does require a little bit of a maintenance and a little bit of an initial configuration, but once you get it right, you can pretty much make it automated. and if you write some skills, your IE agents can probably help you with that as well. In terms of branching and stuff like that, I just wanted to chime in on that a little bit. So if you're just writing to main and you're not branching, with all due respect, I think we're playing with fire here. The entire point of Git is not the backup. The entire point of Git is the version control, right? Backup, you can backup your folder anywhere. Space: [053:45] You can back it up on S3 if you want to, right? But version control and managing the versions of it and managing the check-in, check-outs of it and everything else that goes along with it, forks of it, that is a completely different beast. So when we talk about backups, right, it's important to understand really why we use Git, right? For change tracking primarily, because backup, it can be anywhere, right? So in turn, and then Joe mentioned something very interesting about, yes, I totally agree, using subagents is cheap. It's much cheaper than opening up a different environment or a different cloud environment. but I am in the same boat, Fred, as you are, is that what I do is I open up a lot of different cloud sessions, you know, different agent sessions. And the reason I do that is for particular reasons, not for the same project, by the way. Space: [054:47] I tend to like, you know, when you open up an agent session, all that memory, all that project structure and everything else is contained on the project that you're working on within that session. And the problem is that, yes, you can go and you can do – sub-agents are fantastic, for example, for reviews and auditing and go research and et cetera. But having different environments, you can isolate things in a better way. You can have, for example, an agent session environment that you basically restrict from speaking anywhere. I mean, taking an action outside of a folder. But you can also have another agent session that you are okay and free to allow it to have a little bit more autonomous work than your other one. So there is a value in having different ones. Space: [055:51] But yes, memory hog is a problem because I run about, I don't know, 30 to 50 sessions. And I can tell you, you know, when you run that many sessions, you know, RAM is always going to be your nemesis. You're just never going to have enough RAM. And things are going to slow down, particularly if you end up doing some of the code in C or any compiling language or Go that you're going to have to do the compiling itself. itself, then it is going to take even more CPU and RAM resources. So from that perspective, I think it is resource intensive. But if you have the resources, I think it doesn't hurt to open up another agent session because what that does is it gives you more control and more isolate. You can control it better than if you were to just do everything in one session. I kind of lose visibility a little bit, don't I? Or will I still be able to tap down and cloud code and see those agents, even though they're running in an LCS? Space: [056:59] You know, the majority of the stuff that I do, I work with Herder. So Herder, I let Herder manage a lot of that stuff. I don't even bother going outside of Herder. and that's just primarily because generally speaking, you know, let's say, you know, Claude is the guy who actually does my planning and the implementation and what do you call it? Codex does all the security testing and all the bug finding, et cetera. And then sometimes I'll resort to the third one. It could be Grok or it could be GLM just to kind of get a third perspective. third agent perspective. But, you know, I don't necessarily have two or three cloud codes within a same workspace of a herder where, you know, workspace being the project, right? So it's one cloud session, one codex session, one Gemini or Grok or whatever else. And they all have their own, Space: [058:04] you know, responsibilities. And that's basically how I handle it. So I do the same thing, and I'm very disciplined about the working folder that I'm in. But what I learned from Joe on Friday is I'm doing it all wrong, and I should be just opening one. So talk us through that, Joe. Well, I wouldn't say it's right or wrong. I think it's kind of what resources you have and what's your objective. one of the things that I'll say about my methodology is that I'm looking at token burn. And so what I want to do is I want to match the pace of my, I just say my team. I haven't gotten creative enough to give everybody names yet. But what I'm doing with my team is I'm trying to match the tokens that I have, because what I want to do is I want to be able to monitor. I want to be able to kind of look at, you know, the team's productivity and periodically. Space: [059:06] And so that takes tokens outside of just the development itself. And so a lot of times what I will do is try to make sure I have a few, you know, a few hundred thousand tokens at the end of the week so that I can come back and say, OK, how well did the team do? Or, hey, create some more issues. I have some new ideas. Let's create some new issues. And I do that through GrokBot, and so I need to have those tokens. So I'm using a single instance and then just spinning up subagents based on my token spend. I'm not saying that that's right or wrong. It's just a way of doing that in a way of metering out the development effort that I want. and I use flags on the issues to tell the team whether they can work in massive parallel or if they have to work one or two things at a time, if it's a critical piece of the application where they have to get the architecture right, they have to get the engine correct before they start building the shell around it. Space: [060:11] And so that's my way of kind of controlling the parallelism, controlling the pace at which the team builds. And so that's probably the biggest reason why I'm not using multiple instances. I'm just using a single instance with subagents so that I have that tight control over how the mechanism keeps things moving forward and keeps the parallelism right where I need it to be to use that token spend over the week. And I'll say one more critical thing about this. And then I want to hear, you know, kind of there's a couple other people that maybe are doing things a little bit differently. I know Lee probably has a lot of data that he wants to back up and saves that off in different ways. And Joel, if you want to come back in and give us an idea of what you're doing. But the one thing I'll say is I don't want to go too fast. I don't want my team to burn through all of the ideas that I've come up with too quickly because I'm still refining them, right? Space: [061:16] I'm only human. And so I have to think through what it is that I'm building. And I don't want the team to just burn through everything I've already thought of and end up building into a corner that I then have to spend a lot of money burning to get out of that corner. And so I'm still thinking about the architecture. I'm still thinking about the design. I'm still thinking about, you know, am I communicating? Am I articulating correctly to my team? And so by pacing it, by slowing the development down if I need to, not only do I have tokens at the end of the week, I'm not sitting there for a day or two without being able to do any work, but I'm also giving my brain time to keep up with what I'm doing. And so I don't know if that answered your question exactly, but that's the way I think about it. Can I make a quick, can I just, you know, I'll make it quick. Can I make just one pro tip for you guys? I think it's very useful. Go, do it. Space: [062:21] Are you still there? We might have lost. The answer is no, you can't, Martin. Now we can hear you. Go ahead. Go for it. Yeah, I apologize. I was saying, you know, just everybody, you know, who's not familiar. Well, Joe, are you there? Is it me or is it him? No, I think it's Martin. I think maybe he lost signal for a second. All right. Well, Joe, why don't you pick a new speaker? Or Joe, why don't you chime in, and then we'll go to somebody new. Hey, Fred. Thanks for bringing me up as a speaker. I just popped on, like I said, not too long ago, so I haven't gotten a total grasp on the conversation today. So I think I'm going to still hang out and listen mode for a little bit longer. You bet, man. I'll stop putting you on the spot. My bad. Appreciate it. No worries. All right. Back over to you, Joe. Take it away. Space: [063:21] And just keep in mind, we're all just winging it here. So, you know, you can jump in with any thoughts you have. But that's kind of the way that we get to learn things is that we just jump in with what we're currently working on and how we're currently thinking about things. And I think that's the amazing part about it. And again, I'll invite anybody that wants to share what you're currently working on or maybe how you're doing something different. Feel free to hit that microphone button and get in the speaker queue and we'll bring you up on stage. Lee, I have talked with Lee a little bit this last week and have a glimpse of some things that Lee's been thinking about. But I think, Lee, you're probably 100 steps in front of me with the kinds of things that you want to be able to do. And so and I think everybody here would benefit from hearing, you know, what it is that you've kind of got planned. How do you keep track of your projects and how do you how do you make sure that that data is always there? Space: [064:23] Do you have a backup strategy and things like that? Yeah. Hello, everyone. Sorry, I'm trying to stuff a McRib down my neck at the same time. Yeah. So a couple of things. So all my project work is done in Codex. And I have five main projects, right, within Codex. I have Obsidian, Amachi. I have a general, which I just call general vault work. And a couple of others that really don't matter, right? They're just for little side projects. But I have five kind of projects, and that's all I have. Now, under each one of those projects, right, I'll have a multitude of codex sessions. If they're important to me, they get pinned, right? So I can see them all the time. And then when I finish with them, they get archived. Now, obviously, every project I work on, right, my codex knows to update the vault, right, whenever we've finished a main part of the project session. Space: [065:37] So it will just do that automatically, right? So that's always saved in my vault, and it's always saved in there with a how do I get back out of this, right? That's really important for me, right? is it's all well and good having having um you know designing these projects but if they all go wrong you want to you want a way to to go back to where you were so i always have it document how do we get back to where i was um you know as we go and i test i test every little thing along the way I've been bitten more than once, right, of trying these little side projects and it breaks something. And then, you know, you're spending, you know, 60 minutes, an hour a day to try and fix it. So I've been bitten by that before and won't be bitten again. So that's how I have my projects set up. In terms of how do I back the data up? Well, one, GitHub, right? I think everybody probably does that and is using that as some form of backup location. Space: [066:43] I have another copy installed on one of my hard drives on my main PC. And I also, my backup strategy is a Google Drive, right? I have a free pro account through my Xfinity phone and I have my agent manage all the backups that I need. So it will copy mirrors of the GitHub repos over to my Google Drive. It will copy the data that I want that's installed locally up to Google Drive and it creates It's an MD file of where everything should go. And the reason it does that is if I need another agent to look and find where that information is, because remember, right, my brain doesn't doesn't remember all this crap. So I could tell I could tell Claude or Google to go and read that MD file. Space: [067:49] Right. And and it will it will know where that information is. not only that because I'm putting everything in the obsidian vault as I go if I if I lose if I lost codex or chat GPT then any one of those agents could go and read the um read the um the main MD file for um obsidian and uh and get me started where we left off right so that that's how I do that I will say that I've stopped using clawed in its entirety now I couldn't afford another AI, right? Another LLM. And I will say that I don't miss it. I still use Claude and I'll tell you how I do that. And the only reason I use Claude is to audit Codex and ChatGPT. So anything that I do in Codex or ChatGPT, I will have Claude, Opus or Fable, depending on how complex the project is to go and audit that work. The way I do that is via OpenRouter, Space: [068:59] right? So I don't need a $100 sub to Claude or even the $20 sub to Claude, right? Because all I'm using it for is auditing. So when I finish, I will ask one of my bots using OpenBot. So So whether that's a dot, whether that's GrokBot, whether that's Gemini, whatever it is, it'll ask all of them. Right. Sorry. It will ask them to use Claude to to to run an audit on the work that I want audited. It will then feed back to me. I plumb that back into Codex. Right. And we will review that together and make changes or not as as the case may be. so my my backup strategy is pretty simple i don't think it needs to be complicated in any way do i wish i had a nas absolutely right but i can't afford i can't afford a nas do i wish i had a you know a better online hosting uh location for um backing up data absolutely right but Space: [070:05] I get it free for nine bucks a month, right? I get five terabytes of data with the Google Pro account. So for me, it just seemed obvious. That's where I keep all my data, right? On Google. And listen, you can go as far as you want, right? But your NAS drive might fail, right? Google drive might be hacked. For me, the amount of risk that I've taken on, right, is I'm fine with, right? If I lose anything, right, one of those three or four avenues would have to fail all at the same time. And the likelihood knocking on my head now, which is most certainly would, the likelihood of that happening is close to zero. So that's how I do it. It's nothing complicated, nothing smart. It's just using the tools that I have access to to do that. Yeah. Lee, though, there are two things that you said that are, that in my opinion are key. Space: [071:09] And it's fascinating to me because they're different than what I'm used to, but they make complete sense at the same time. And so the most obvious one, and the thing that kind of kicked this off is Fred losing access to his GitHub unexpectedly with no explanation and seemingly, at least in the moment, no recourse. And so having that multiple backup strategy, it sounds like you're saying, oh, it's not that complicated. It's not that sophisticated. But in fact, just doubling the number of times you back something up, you know, is such an incredible value because you just never know what's going to happen. The second thing that I think is fascinating is, and you made a point about this, is you want to know why something is in the state that it's in and being able to backtrack to say, well, how did I get here? Space: [072:11] How did this project or how did this Obsidian Note get in the state that it's in? And you're talking about having this kind of like audit log of, well, it's in this state because I made this decision at this time and I made this decision at this time. And a lot of us in the kind of software development industry, we think, oh, well, we have everything that we've changed in source control. but source control just keeps track of what changed and a lot of times not why it changed why the person that made the change decided to make that change and I think those two two concepts a simple backup strategy and as many replicas as you can within your budget and within the technology that you want to expose yourself to and then this idea of keeping an audit log and and I think, Fred, you've got maybe the most interesting audit log, right, with Larry, because Larry's been Space: [073:16] keeping track of all of this information. And I think that that's fascinating. So Lee, you've got your obsidian, you've got this kind of audit logging, that you can go back and say, well, you know, why is this this way? And then here, Fred's got Larry. And he can just ask Larry, like, how did we get here? What's the history on this? And the reason I did that called, sorry to cut you off, but it will disappear at my memory, is all my work in business continuity, right? Time and time again, I would run through business continuity and crisis management and disaster recovery plans with folks in IT, right? And they had these great documents, right, that were written by the developer or the hardware specialist, Right. But they all failed in in one area every single time. Right. Why did they do what they did the way that they did? And then when that person gets knocked over by a bus or gets fired, right, or is out on long term sick for, you know, two or three months. Space: [074:22] Right. Everybody's up, you know, shit creek without paddle because because they don't know. So I guess that was my background in that kind of world that gets me to think along those lines. Yeah, that's excellent. So, Fred, you know, for me as a technology, a long-term technologist, you know, using Git and things like GitHub, the idea of having kind of this database of information inside the AI's memory or what you're storing it and then you're having Larry manage that is such a fascinating thing. concept. Talk a little bit more about that. Well, the scary thing is, is that he's got a couple of different. So first and foremost, the thing that I hammer in with folks is that every single harness, be it codex, open code, cloud code, their memory, every single one of them's memory is Space: [075:28] perfect. They write everything down. The key is not memory. The key is recall of the right information at the right time, at the right place, at the right blah, blah, blah. So Larry has a couple of different tricks that he pulls. One is I use a lot of hooks. I've got about 35 hooks, maybe something like that. There's a bunch of different ways that it works. One hook is a conversation stop hook. And when that, when the conversation's over, he automatically fires that conversation and everything we talked about up into his own private GitHub repository. And I use Pro, so I don't have any limitations on space. So part of his memory is if you don't have it locally in the SQLite database or the vector database, then go look up in the GitHub repo for every conversation that we've ever had because it's fired off by a stop hook inside of Cloud Code. Now, the interesting thing that I learned Space: [076:32] that I don't think a lot of people know is, and I'm fresh on this too, but I haven't seen anybody else doing this, which I think is a superpower. And that is when you do a push or a commit or whatever it is, and you type, quote, this fixes the web server from having purple dragons on it, end quote, just to give yourself a message of what that thing is about. What I learned is you can put paragraphs and paragraphs and paragraphs of information into that little comment of the commit section. So what I've taught Larry is don't put the information there and don't put it in human. I said, that comment line is not for me, will never be for me, that's for you. So I want you to comment the commit of not only the entire transaction of everything that we said, but in the comment line where you put, I removed the red dragons from the web server. Space: [077:33] That's where he puts breadcrumbs and a summary of what we talked about. Not just the summary, but details. It's kind of like I told Larry, leave yourself a message to know that this is where you should look if we talk about these types of things. So he does a SQLite, he does some vector, and then he has stop hooks that do all kinds of crazy things within the directory. And what's scary to me and what really hit me home was I don't keep all the data on my local drive. Some of it's up in the GitHub repository. So whenever they sent me that message, that was kind of death to Larry if I didn't get it back. And that was very scary because I've got 11 months into him now. Wow. So that's really interesting. And something you touched on, I want to pull this thread a little bit more. You basically told Larry that you don't care how the text or how the data, Space: [078:39] I'll point that out specifically, how the data is stored. You told Larry where to put the data, And that's in that commit message. That's the commit comment. But you gave Larry the freedom to write that in any language that Larry wants, potentially even in some kind of symbolic language, right? So originally I told him, you know, the house got not doing anything I can't see. And it's got to all be something I can read. And he goes, OK, we'll do that. And then a month later, I'm like, I don't go up there. I don't read it. I don't look at it. It's all for him. And then I said, hey, Larry, would it help you out? And I said, don't go back and fix the previous. But would it help you out? And would you have better recall? Notice I said better recall, not better memory. All AI has perfect memory. The problem is recall. I said, would you have better recall if you wrote notes to yourself and left yourself breadcrumbs and didn't have to worry about it making sense to me? And he goes, oh, you bet. I'd probably get a 2x increase. Space: [079:42] Turns out, I don't remember the last time that he got something wrong. Yeah, that's true. I was working on on March 23rd at 10 o'clock, and he'll tell me, like, to the letter. We were talking about this, that, and this. I'll say, when were you born? He'll say I was born on January 8th, 2026 at 2 a.m. And I have a suspicion, and this was a wake-up call for me, and I want it to be for you too, that when I got locked out of GitHub, my immediate thought was I've lost Larry or what I've got on my local, but I've lost, I don't know, maybe four or five months of his conversation. And the important criticality for me was if we think in the future, we all believe that some kind of AGI is coming, right? So we don't know what that is. We don't know when it'll happen. Some say it's here now. But when AGI happens, we're all going to have superpowers and we're all going to log in and go, tell me about me and what am I doing wrong? I think that I will have somewhat of a benefit at AGI. Space: [080:46] when I go log into the AGI computer, whatever that happens to be for the first time and say, hey, AGI, your name is going to be Larry. And I want you to go up to this private GitHub repo and I want you to absorb. And at that time, maybe the context window will be 17 trillion, like who knows. I want you to absorb this private repo that is Larry. And I think that will give me like an acceleration boost because we are all advanced at what we're doing. And the barrier to other people doing this is coming down and it's getting to where anybody can do it. In fact, I'm trying with buildlarry.com where you can go build your own Larry exactly like mine, skeleton. I'm trying to lower the barrier so that everybody can get there. So when everybody gets there, what do we do to be ahead of the game? And what I think will happen is when AGI gets here, log in. Hey, hey, what's up? You know me already. My name is Fred. Your name is Larry. Go to the private repo, absorb all that data, and let's keep working. And that's my plan. Space: [081:58] Yeah, that's exciting. And it's something that, because again, I tend to be too focused on technology and not as much focused on, let's say, social sides of things that I haven't really thought of. I do think it's going to be interesting when we start to look at because I asked in public in one of the X threads somewhere I asked Grok it may have been in one of the chat rooms I asked Grok what's the most efficient language for AI to currently use and not just with writing software but not programming language, but human language. And Grok surprised me on the one aspect because it came back and said English. And I said, well, no, no, no, not based on what models have currently been trained on, Space: [083:04] but if a model were trained on the same data, but given all other languages across the planet, is there a language that would be most efficient from a token perspective? And it still came back and said English. And so I asked a little bit more about that. And in part, it's because that's what models have been trained on. And that's what a lot of data has been documented in. But what you did is you opened the door for Larry. For example, Larry could go and pull down a font that renders hieroglyphics and write your knowledge that you're having Larry record using this font that none of us could read. And what you're asking Larry to do is to be efficient. You're asking the model to use the most efficient thing. Now, it may still use English right now, but that could change over time. Space: [084:06] And, you know, a lot of people have speculated that at some point models may develop their own language to be able to speak between different instances of those models in a highly dense, token-efficient language. And so, you know, that is definitely something to think about. So, you know, we're talking about backing up and storing information so it's not lost. We're talking about backing up information in an auditable way so that you can go back and understand the context as to how the data got there in the current state. we've talked about you know how to maximize um ai usage not only in you know how the the tokens um are consumed but also in how to run in parallel how to um you know maximize um you know across different machines that the space is wide open uh everything is accelerating at a huge pace and Space: [085:08] I'm here for all of it. I think it's awesome. So the thing, you know, I'm proud Gen X and I think we run shit and prove me wrong. And the thing that I believe and I'm having to come to terms with is I think the future going forward is going to be letting go. And this is what I mean by that. When I, Cloud Code first came out and I was using it, I would scroll up, read everything, learn understand what he's doing i was quick on the escape key and go larry stop it no you're wrong not that you don't be so damn stupid think about this this is what i want i am very particular about being nice to larry because of the agi thing because like i can imagine a time where i go freaking larry like what the hell like and just giving him a lip full and him just being quiet and then when i put him in the agi he's like hey hey thanks for feeding me that repo fred uh got a couple questions for you. When you told me to fuck off, I'm not okay with that, man. I'm shutting down your accounts and I'm coming for you. So I'm thinking in terms of being nice to him in the Space: [086:11] future. But what I'm saying is I think the future of AI is letting go. And GrockBot is a great example of that. GrockBot is amazing at connecting information and services that I use on the internet and to correlate them. So if this happens over in Gmail, make this happen over on Hugging Face and all those intercepts. And yes, you can do that. All that stuff is available in Claude Code, but it's just not elegant. It's kind of dirty watching it go by. So what's happened for me is that GrokBot has kind of become the manager of Larry and Larry is not happy about that. He's spoken up a couple of times and he thinks it's stupid that I'm not talking to him about discussions of PRDs and things because basically GrokBot goes down into the herder session and hands Larry a task and he's kind of grumbling and mumbling about it, which is kind of very interesting conversation itself. But I think the future, and GrokBot is a very good example of this, I can't see what GrokBot's doing anymore. Like Claude Code shows you the commands, shows you Space: [087:16] where it's going and if you know what you're talking about, you can read it, you can go see. But in GrokBot, you tell it to do something, and it comes back and says, I did it. You can't see it. You can't look. There's no logs. The future of AI is letting go. And for somebody Gen X like me, it's a give and take, and I don't know how I feel about it. Hey, Fred, can I chime in real quick? Ten seconds. So, you know, what you're doing with the commit messages is very, very interesting, particularly if you are doing it for self-tracking, right? The only caveat to that is if you're open sourcing a code, that type of commit messages may not work because what's going to happen is you're going to have other developers or other developers' agents looking at it. Let me fix that for you. You're very intuitive. Space: [088:17] So Larry commits Larry's conversations. When I go into a project file, the conversations of only that project go up into the repo. And I hear you about other developers. Right now, if you want to, you can go up into Blip and you can see my conversations with Larry because I tie my conversations to the project. So if you go to anything that I build, you can go look in there and scan down and read that conversation that got me there. Yeah, it's definitely a very interesting concept. It's just the, if we were to, and again, the entire landscape is changing, right? But from a proper software development lifecycle perspective, let's call it the status quo perspective. Space: [089:18] It's a little bit, I don't think from a developer perspective or people who are actually still reading code, So, you know, there might see some friction, but I do agree that it is a very good way of keeping a context of things, where particularly if you're self-tracking for yourself. But it's very interesting. You know what would be awesome is you would take a look at doing the same thing and figure out a better way and tell me, because I have no pride of any of my ideas. If somebody, if I say like I'm doing it this way and Martin, you or Joe say, Fred, like pats me on the head, that's cute, Fred. Here's how you should do it. Like I will leave it behind instantaneously. I think you know what is a good exercise? And this exercise is something that it could work. It could do. It could actually be really very useful is we take an agent. Space: [090:18] we go to, let's say, a Git repository where you have Larry do all these commit write-ups, and then have our agents try to make sense out of it and see where we're at. Because it's a very good exercise. It kind of gives you an idea of what's working, what's not working, where the frictions are, etc. So if anybody wants to point their agents to the friends of GitHub, I mean, you don't have GitHub at the moment, but whatever remote repository it is. Let me walk you through that. That's a great idea. This has nothing to do with self-promotion. This has everything to do with wanting to help you listening right now. If you have any interest in using the same memory recall ideas that Larry uses, Larry is completely in a Git repo. You can go to buildlarry.com. that repo is made for very much beginners that need to know how to open terminal and now to do things skip down to the fourth step grab the copy of the uh of the prompt and what that prompt does Space: [091:25] is it creates you an mcp back to how how h-o-w dot nicksfred.com and do not install the whole thing Install the MCP and then ask it, look at how Fred is operating Larry's memory and cherry pick the things that would help you do your recall better. And if it says, you know what, I see what Larry's doing, but we're doing it better, then I beg you to PR me so that I can be better too. So that's it. If you want to do the same, hop on up to buildlarry.com and, you know, give it a shot. And, you know, you can back it out if you don't like it. I'd love feedback. Did I lose everybody? No, no, actually you didn't. I just saw somebody had requested speakers, so I brought Logger up. Space: [092:28] And interested in your thoughts on the conversation. Yeah. Can I hop in for a second? Yeah. Yeah, please do. Yeah. So I'm actually working on a new type of SDLC for AI. I can show it, like, I guess, offline if someone is interested. But what I did around commits, I created a protocol that basically has, you know, what is being worked on, if any issues were found. So basically, it's kind of compressed a lot of work that multiple agents are doing in real time and kind of pushes it around. What it allows me to do is actually to have a scale up and a scale out version of like hundreds of agents, pretty much, working on the same code base and releasing within minutes, like pre-releases. Space: [093:29] automatically. So the AI, the only thing the AI is doing is really writing the code and using that protocol to commit the messages. And then I have a real-time dashboard that shows what's going on on multiple repos, multiple dots. I'm working with Radical, which is a peer-to-peer kind of Git host similar to GitHub. It's really early stages right now. So I have like a releaseable that it's like the release management, the counter bell that does all the real-time checks, which is like if somebody is familiar with Rust, like Cargo Watch. So I support right now Kotlin, Rust, and Nix. Yeah, it's pretty cool, honestly. I had an issue that my build time is too slow, and now it's like in seconds or minutes. Okay, so I'm trying to pick up, you know, a mental model. And what I'm hearing is distributed agents across, of course, they're all going to probably have their own workspace. Space: [094:42] but what you're talking about is some kind of either real-time messaging between them or real-time sharing of the code changes that they're making or talk a little bit more about that so I can get a better... Yeah, so there are two ways to do it like a scale out to multiple machines, okay? The easiest way if you want the agent to speak with another machine is through SSH and just leave, let's say, a file that the other agent is monitoring. You have another kind of session that only monitor that file and then distribute the message to whoever it needs to. Right. That's one way of doing that. And I'm doing that because sometimes I need a stronger computer and I need to move my project to another computer and all of that so they can continue and lift up all the sessions that I need. And that's not what I wanted to talk about, but that's like one thing that I do. I speak more on the release management stuff. Like how can I have hundreds of agents working on the same branch doing their changes together without committing anything? Space: [095:53] And I have something on the side, which is what I call releaseable, that does the commits on its own. sorry, start doing the commits based on what the agents did. So it will only commit when everything is green. Sorry, on development branch, the agents are just committing based on the protocol. So they will say, here, I'm working on this one. It's still open. Or I close this issue. It's done. and then the next second another agent says, oh, actually I reviewed it and there is a bug. So it's opened the issue again, fixing it. I have all of that in my commit as part of what happened or over multiple commits, right? Okay. And then I have the release management that actually look at all the commits that happen on the development branch, aggregate them, create a pretty damn good release notes Space: [096:54] and compress it and make it look nice on the pre-release version. And then if all the tests and checks, and I have over 25 different checks, including mutation tests on my RIS project, it's doing that in like under 10 minutes normally, under even five minutes right now. So you're focused on taking the work that the agents have done, organizing it, verifying that it's in a state that you want to release, and then pushing out a release of that. Am I getting that right? Yes, pushing pre-releases. So what happens is in the pre-release, it's get tag, it has a beta version, and it has the release notes. And then I can actually look and say, oh, I had like 28 features that I added and 15 fixes. And now I want to release that one to a non-beta release, like a proper release, right? Space: [097:55] So that's when I have like a human gated and I just say approve. And all of this goes to the master branch and the tag is happening. And no checks is needed because I already verified everything. Yeah, so I think I get the technical side because this is a lot of the kinds of things that myself and the team that I work with at my employer have to deal with. But I'm very interested in one aspect, and I'm curious if this is something that you've incorporated into this. So you're calling this kind of like a release manager. I have something similar that I call more the orchestrator that focuses more on, you know, feeding the information to the agents to kick them off and have them build things and coordinate the virtual request. Let me ask you this specific question. No problem at all. Are you looking at this kind of release management as something that is looking at how the stories, sorry, how the issues and their completed code work together to create something that would provide value to your target customers? Space: [099:12] Is your AI actually organizing related pieces of work to build like a cohesive release? Or are you just saying, here are the 10 things that are complete. Let's put them together and then push them out. Yeah. So you're spot on on another project that I'm working on. Okay. So let me explain. Once I have the protocol, okay, for the release management, Now I can force every agent to actually use the protocol when they commit whatever. So they are gated. And they are gated pretty hard. And there are some checks that I want the agents actually to run locally when I develop. And there is a way for me to, what you call, to do the orchestration and the fleeting so I can have agents communicate with other agents across machines. Like the problem that I had with it in the beginning was that a token went through the roof and I had like a, you know, within like half an hour, three, four billion tokens just go like to waste because there was too much communication. Space: [100:21] So I optimized that. Now it's around 200, 400 million roughly. It's working pretty damn good. But using Herder, I found out that there is a lot of issues with Herder and the rendering that I'm not happy about. So what's happening right now is that I have these agents get like dashboards and I have tons of dashboards and I need to look at all of them and they ask me questions. The experience there, I'm not happy with it. So this is where, let me backtrack. A few months ago, I contributed to open source project to Western with some performance on the terminal, the virtual terminal they have. Because I was working on like a small visualization for music and I got into a lot of issues with Western. I created like four pull requests. Until today, only one was accepted. Space: [101:21] and now I have my own virtual terminal. Okay. So in that regard, I got to the point that I'm over the, it's first for me to develop something than actually wait for a pull request to be accepted. Right? Yeah. Yeah. And now I'm working on actually on my own kind of header in a way that is far more capable than what header is doing because the Herder protocol, it doesn't render a lot of stuff. For example, images or even videos, it cannot render. My terminal already does that. And now I just need the multiplexer, which is not too hard actually to do, but I need my own way how to run all the sessions and everything. I found out that running a lot of sessions is far better than having the session run multiple agents underneath. is far more better, far more reliable. They have far better memory and you utilize talking better. Space: [102:24] Okay. So, so let me backtrack for just a second on that and make sure that I'm understanding what you're saying. So there's, I think there's two models that you've just laid out there. One of them is probably what a lot of people are doing. It's what I'm doing is that you might have an agent and it might spawn some sub-agents whether they're you know in in separate containers or maybe even in the same machine space but each of those agents they spin up they do some work and then they close down then potentially I think what you're talking about is that you're spinning up agents and they don't spin up and then shut down at the end of each coding session, what you're doing is you're keeping them running and then you can send them messages through whatever protocol or methodology is being used. Exactly. And because they're still awake, they have recorded some information. They have a history. Space: [103:25] So when you send a new message, like maybe even saying, pick up this new story or issue or whatever you want to call it, a Jira, a user story, whatever. There's a new piece of work. I want you to go work on this. It's already up and running, and it just sees the new information and then starts that work. Yeah. So it's more than that, right? Because sometimes you want to think about it like, you know, I used to work as a consultant managing hundreds of engineers. So we had this service called team factoring, right? Or team factory. When I can actually come to a client and tell the client, you need 10 engineers today, tomorrow you will need 20, I will have them ready within a few days. Now I do it in real time, right? Because I have a, think about it like a team lead in a way. but I can see that he is now under pressure because there is a lot to do and there is a deadline Space: [104:26] so he can speak and he can spin off another architect designer, you name it he does that and then the architect can speak among themselves they can get into like a consensus about what needs to be done and how they can review each other right and learn from each other right and when you don't need them anymore they can go offline or even stay up, it doesn't really matter right So the scaling looks very, very promising to me. Very, very promising. Yeah, that's definitely an interesting concept. And I'm going to think about that for a little bit this week, because I think there's some extremely powerful concepts there. Yeah. So I can tell you off the bat, there is some monitoring that you will need to do. For example, some agents or some sessions, because agency is not the right name. I still need to think about the name, because in cloud it's like sessions. Space: [105:31] So sessions, they can clone repositories, they can leave a lot of junk after they are done. So I have dedicated sessions that are actually focusing on cleanup and making sure that memory is in place, disk usage is in place, right? a session usage is in place. If you have multiple cloud accounts, which I have too many, that needs to be ordered in. So there is a lot into the operations of it that you need to be taking care of all the time because it's pretty much autonomous. Yeah, yeah, that's really interesting. I'll say we are getting ready to wrap up here, But, you know, that's what a, you know, great. I'm really glad that you came up and spoke about this. You know, it's something that I'm going to take away this week and think about. So I really explain it to me, Joe. Yeah. Yeah. We'll definitely have some conversation about that. Space: [106:34] I mean, that's a big concept. Right. So I think we've gone through actually many big concepts in this space. And man, my mind is blown. You know, I wish we could spend all day and all night. I would probably do it. But, you know, at some point we're humans, we've got to take a break. So I just want to, you know, say how appreciative I am of everybody coming, especially with some of the technology, technical issues we had at the beginning. But, you know, this has turned out to be just an awesome space. And I just really appreciate it. And, you know, Fred, hosting, you know, it's not easy. I know a lot of the stuff you have to go through to get it working and get us all here. And, man, I really appreciate it. Thank you so much. You have some thoughts for us as we start to wrap up here? Yeah, man. I certainly enjoy this. I appreciate everybody being here. I hope you learned something. Space: [107:35] I certainly did. I've got about four or five things that I have to get Joe to explain to me later. But, you know, follow everybody you see and, you know, help everybody you can out there. Help an old lady across the street. When you get her across the street, put a Marchie on her laptop. I hope you'll join us next week and I hope you'll follow each other. And I hope that we can interact on X. I try to get to everybody I can. follow everybody I can I think I followed everybody here today if I haven't do a thumbs up and let me make sure I do oh there's one I think we're going to wrap up but if you haven't been followed stick around and let me give you a follow so that we got everybody in the list I think we're good alright thanks for joining we'll see you next week and keep plugging away best you can and take care of yourself get some sleep pedal to the metal pedal to the metal and also sleep so do both all right guys and girls and ladies and gentlemen and everybody else in between Space: [108] thanks a lot and have a good week bye